The Square Circuit
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Buzz Circuit
Used to love the fighter buzz circuits in use in the 50s.
Procedure was to dive low and medium fast over the intended touch down point then pull up in a tight climbing turn with power back and RPM to max slowing to lower gear and flap in the turn at appropriate speeds and adjusting the manoeuvre and speed to be still turning over the end of the runway. One was able to readily keep the intended touch down point in easy view throughout.
After practice one could judge all of that accurately to roll out straight for a short flare to touch down.
It was a wartime procedure to get a fighter on the ground in the least time to reduce exposure to any enemy fighter attack.
Later Military adopted the entry to airfield traffic patterns via an Initial run at 1000 ft AGL down the active runway with breaks out of formations to result in a down wind spacing. This way all traffic becomes sorted for landing well away from the airfield.
Still used today for military.
Used to love the fighter buzz circuits in use in the 50s.
Procedure was to dive low and medium fast over the intended touch down point then pull up in a tight climbing turn with power back and RPM to max slowing to lower gear and flap in the turn at appropriate speeds and adjusting the manoeuvre and speed to be still turning over the end of the runway. One was able to readily keep the intended touch down point in easy view throughout.
After practice one could judge all of that accurately to roll out straight for a short flare to touch down.
It was a wartime procedure to get a fighter on the ground in the least time to reduce exposure to any enemy fighter attack.
Later Military adopted the entry to airfield traffic patterns via an Initial run at 1000 ft AGL down the active runway with breaks out of formations to result in a down wind spacing. This way all traffic becomes sorted for landing well away from the airfield.
Still used today for military.
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Join Date: May 2004
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milt, it was still very much in use when i instructed 14 years ago and was called a run and break!
i gave it up when i hit stall buffet in an aztec over the airport cafe one morning!
i gave it up when i hit stall buffet in an aztec over the airport cafe one morning!
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i fly both oval and sqaure.
Where i fly at my VGS in the instructor role, we fly racetrack as we are in military machines. We find that the amount of traffic you can get in the circuit varies depending on the runway length; but 4 is no problem.
There is also the rule that on first solo's the circuit must be clear of all over traffic. There are also less places to join as there is no base.
When i fly civvy, i find that people under instruction fly bomber circuits, which aren't necessary (apparently its for spacing!?!), and everyone else flies a sort of normal rectangle size. The only problem is, that people join EVERYWHERE - over head, straight in, crosswind, left base/right base or downwind. And with bomber circuits going on as well you haven't a clue where everyone is as everyone percieves the circuit to be a different size.
However, low level circuits are oval
Racetrack in my opinion creates more accuarate more controlled circuit flying; it also holds a less ambiguity to where the rest of the circuit traffic is! You can also get far more circuits done in 20 mins than you can in a rectangle as there is far less *rsing around going on!
(Im a low hour PPL with high VGS hours) Like ASI i learnt the military way.
Where i fly at my VGS in the instructor role, we fly racetrack as we are in military machines. We find that the amount of traffic you can get in the circuit varies depending on the runway length; but 4 is no problem.
There is also the rule that on first solo's the circuit must be clear of all over traffic. There are also less places to join as there is no base.
When i fly civvy, i find that people under instruction fly bomber circuits, which aren't necessary (apparently its for spacing!?!), and everyone else flies a sort of normal rectangle size. The only problem is, that people join EVERYWHERE - over head, straight in, crosswind, left base/right base or downwind. And with bomber circuits going on as well you haven't a clue where everyone is as everyone percieves the circuit to be a different size.
However, low level circuits are oval
Racetrack in my opinion creates more accuarate more controlled circuit flying; it also holds a less ambiguity to where the rest of the circuit traffic is! You can also get far more circuits done in 20 mins than you can in a rectangle as there is far less *rsing around going on!
(Im a low hour PPL with high VGS hours) Like ASI i learnt the military way.
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acw 335
thank you for that, i had forgotten that phrase the 'bomber circuit'.
anyone who advocates square circuits should read you post, you are spot on.
the ridiculous circuit pattern flown by flying clubs is the one reason why i never want to fly light a/c again as an instructor.
how can you monitor and teach in such a n undisciplined enviroment?
thank you for that, i had forgotten that phrase the 'bomber circuit'.
anyone who advocates square circuits should read you post, you are spot on.
the ridiculous circuit pattern flown by flying clubs is the one reason why i never want to fly light a/c again as an instructor.
how can you monitor and teach in such a n undisciplined enviroment?
With reference to "bomber circuits" the problem often seems to be that pilots will insist on extending downwind from the point where they would normally turn base leg instead of turning base leg and conducting a Go Around from base leg maintaining circuit height. The aircraft behind this aircraft also extends downwind so that at many GA airfields most if not all the aircraft in the circuit are on base leg or final!!
By turning base leg and conducting a GA this means the aircraft behind you can conduct a "normal" circuit and quite often you can make an early turn downwind from the go around.
That said, there are times when you might extend downwind for sound airmanship reasons but broadly speaking my point is that aircraft should not extend downwind for separation purposes. Finally, these comments are related to airfields without an ATCU where we presume the expertise of the controller avoids this situations also!
No doubt, whatunion, will have some argument to rubbish what I have said in this posting - that's got that one off before we start!
By turning base leg and conducting a GA this means the aircraft behind you can conduct a "normal" circuit and quite often you can make an early turn downwind from the go around.
That said, there are times when you might extend downwind for sound airmanship reasons but broadly speaking my point is that aircraft should not extend downwind for separation purposes. Finally, these comments are related to airfields without an ATCU where we presume the expertise of the controller avoids this situations also!
No doubt, whatunion, will have some argument to rubbish what I have said in this posting - that's got that one off before we start!
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acw 335
thank you for that, i had forgotten that phrase the 'bomber circuit'.
anyone who advocates square circuits should read you post, you are spot on.
the ridiculous circuit pattern flown by flying clubs is the one reason why i never want to fly light a/c again as an instructor.
how can you monitor and teach in such a n undisciplined enviroment?
thank you for that, i had forgotten that phrase the 'bomber circuit'.
anyone who advocates square circuits should read you post, you are spot on.
the ridiculous circuit pattern flown by flying clubs is the one reason why i never want to fly light a/c again as an instructor.
how can you monitor and teach in such a n undisciplined enviroment?
If clubs are going to continue with sq. ccts they need to seriously address the re-join/join procedure (limit to overhead join?). and also perhaps reiterate the spacing on downwind between the runway and the aircraft... i certainly bought up the bomber circuit issue at the last safety meeting at out airfield
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Run and break from initials is still used as standard practice. It would be nice if occasionaly people realized that there is more than 1 armed service with pilots.
Military cct would probably cause less offence than RAF cct. However I do digress. Surely whatever type of cct you fly you need to be able to reach the runway should you suffer an engine failure (SEP obviously) and I believed that this was taught to be acheived by keeping at least the wingtip, but preferably the roundel (or where one would be) running along the rwy regardless of cct type.
If you are teaching flying further away than this could you please tell me why as I am confused as to why you would want to place yourself in an a/c near the ground with no sensible options in the case of FLWOP. Giving the student more time doesn't mitigate indoctrinating them at such an early stage something that could get them into trouble later on in life.
If you think the ccts at WW are big try ones you see at Elstree and Blackbush often 2.5d out!!!
Military cct would probably cause less offence than RAF cct. However I do digress. Surely whatever type of cct you fly you need to be able to reach the runway should you suffer an engine failure (SEP obviously) and I believed that this was taught to be acheived by keeping at least the wingtip, but preferably the roundel (or where one would be) running along the rwy regardless of cct type.
If you are teaching flying further away than this could you please tell me why as I am confused as to why you would want to place yourself in an a/c near the ground with no sensible options in the case of FLWOP. Giving the student more time doesn't mitigate indoctrinating them at such an early stage something that could get them into trouble later on in life.
If you think the ccts at WW are big try ones you see at Elstree and Blackbush often 2.5d out!!!
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Square CCTS are much easier for a low hour PPL or student to manage. People do have a tendancy to join from everywhere but the standard join in the civillian world is overhead, normally 2000'. you would usually do this to an airfield you dont know or when it is busy. Or if low hours, all the time. This gives you a chance to map out what is below, work out which way you are going and map out where all the other aircraft are from above. Anyone wishing to do a non standard join should take it upon them selves not to get in the way of anyone joining overhead, this would normally be resident ac or an experienced pilot. You can not compare civvy flying procedures to military ones. Remember they have 2 totaly different objectives. CCTS are only really ever flown for currancy or training. This should also be the case in civvy world but it isnt. Soome people do just enjoy doing ccts.
Oh and Vortex Thing, what have you against the RAF? I would like to know.
Also with reference to fireflybob, i do agree with what you say about civvy ccts and the unwillingness to go around but do remember most of the PPL world dont have a lot of money. I dont. If i am flying on my PPL i will adjust my cct to get out of it what i want. Rightly or wrongly, as long as it is safe. However if i am flying military, i will follow everything to the letter and if that means going around at cct height then so be it, i am not paying for it.
Maybe not quite tyhe right attitude and i know it but i bet everyone else who both gets paid to fly and pays to fly will say the same. Their flying disciplines will change depending on who is paying!
i would also likle to add that oval ccts are only at their most effective when the cct is full of similar or identical ac, hence why it is used in the military (with some exceptions). GA airfields tend to have 1 of every ac under the sun all flying at different speeds. The oval cct would be very difficult to manage both from a pilots and an air trafficers point of view. Unless you have different cct heights for different types which is what the military does to seperate types in the oval cct.
Oh and Vortex Thing, what have you against the RAF? I would like to know.
Also with reference to fireflybob, i do agree with what you say about civvy ccts and the unwillingness to go around but do remember most of the PPL world dont have a lot of money. I dont. If i am flying on my PPL i will adjust my cct to get out of it what i want. Rightly or wrongly, as long as it is safe. However if i am flying military, i will follow everything to the letter and if that means going around at cct height then so be it, i am not paying for it.
Maybe not quite tyhe right attitude and i know it but i bet everyone else who both gets paid to fly and pays to fly will say the same. Their flying disciplines will change depending on who is paying!
i would also likle to add that oval ccts are only at their most effective when the cct is full of similar or identical ac, hence why it is used in the military (with some exceptions). GA airfields tend to have 1 of every ac under the sun all flying at different speeds. The oval cct would be very difficult to manage both from a pilots and an air trafficers point of view. Unless you have different cct heights for different types which is what the military does to seperate types in the oval cct.
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Oval verse square
I just wished that fixed wing pilots became aware of helicopters in the circuit, Had a C172 cut inside me today in the circuit at Cambridge, I was at 700 QFE tight in, where I should be and this Cessna was also at 700 feet apparently could'nt maintain circuit height of 1000 feet, so tight he must have had to to a steep turn to get onto final.
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Hi Jumbo,
Problem at Cambridge is two fold:
Firstly, as you are aware most of the fixed wing pilots have no idea where the helicopter circuits are, but be assured that I am trying to improve the situation!
Secondly, ATC will often respond to a request for a low level circuit from a fixed wing pilot undergoing training with a blanket 'approved' reply. They will usually then call the helicopter and advise them that there may be conflicting traffic at their circuit height... Good in theory but as you know a 'little' controlling from ATC is often worse than none at all thus leading to confusion. With credit to them however, they always try to accommodate all requests from all types, and with an ever increasing level of helicopter traffic at Cambridge doing circuits this situation is becoming more frequent.
In the mean time I suggest we try to improve communication between the two 'camps' and possibly liaise a little more with the ATC authority at Cambridge. I will raise the subject at the next Heads of Dept meeting.
It's probably worth mentioning that low level circuits are an often examined part of the PPL syllabus during skills tests so w have to make sure students can do it properly, including maintaining situational awareness, however, it often takes them a number of attempts before they feel confident doing it.
I will brief my instructors accordingly and please do the same in the whirly club!
Best wishes,
Aero Club.
Problem at Cambridge is two fold:
Firstly, as you are aware most of the fixed wing pilots have no idea where the helicopter circuits are, but be assured that I am trying to improve the situation!
Secondly, ATC will often respond to a request for a low level circuit from a fixed wing pilot undergoing training with a blanket 'approved' reply. They will usually then call the helicopter and advise them that there may be conflicting traffic at their circuit height... Good in theory but as you know a 'little' controlling from ATC is often worse than none at all thus leading to confusion. With credit to them however, they always try to accommodate all requests from all types, and with an ever increasing level of helicopter traffic at Cambridge doing circuits this situation is becoming more frequent.
In the mean time I suggest we try to improve communication between the two 'camps' and possibly liaise a little more with the ATC authority at Cambridge. I will raise the subject at the next Heads of Dept meeting.
It's probably worth mentioning that low level circuits are an often examined part of the PPL syllabus during skills tests so w have to make sure students can do it properly, including maintaining situational awareness, however, it often takes them a number of attempts before they feel confident doing it.
I will brief my instructors accordingly and please do the same in the whirly club!
Best wishes,
Aero Club.
