Late Shift to Early Shift... Flight Dispatch
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Late Shift to Early Shift... Flight Dispatch
Does anybody know for fact what the minimum rest time between shifts are working within the Operations area of an Airport are?.
I worked for ServisAir and previously Aviance. At Aviance we used to start back on Lates then after 3 of them...went onto Earlies. When ServisAir came into it they immediately changed it so there was 11 hours rest period between shifts which they said was the legal requirement. It was easy to change it as we simply started on Earlies and finished on Lates.
Now working for Menzies I have often finished around 9.30pm then am rostered at 05.30am the following day. If you account for travelling home, eating (because obviously we don't get to eat during our shifts do we), - then sleeping before commuting in again you start work having maybe got a few hours rest.
- I've made a few mistakes when doing this type of thing recently, - can somebody clarify what is correct or am I just getting too tired to do my job well.
I worked for ServisAir and previously Aviance. At Aviance we used to start back on Lates then after 3 of them...went onto Earlies. When ServisAir came into it they immediately changed it so there was 11 hours rest period between shifts which they said was the legal requirement. It was easy to change it as we simply started on Earlies and finished on Lates.
Now working for Menzies I have often finished around 9.30pm then am rostered at 05.30am the following day. If you account for travelling home, eating (because obviously we don't get to eat during our shifts do we), - then sleeping before commuting in again you start work having maybe got a few hours rest.
- I've made a few mistakes when doing this type of thing recently, - can somebody clarify what is correct or am I just getting too tired to do my job well.
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I believe the absolute minimum is be 8 hours although recommended to be 11, but not sure if that is legal definition.
Are the shifts you are working rostered, swapped or overtime as it would make a difference? Have you been requested to do a late shift change due to operational need? What is the shift length you are working?
Are the shifts you are working rostered, swapped or overtime as it would make a difference? Have you been requested to do a late shift change due to operational need? What is the shift length you are working?
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Website of the UK government : Directgov will tell you all you need to know. However, following taken from the site:
If you are an adult worker you have the right to a break of at least 11 hours between working days. This means as an adult worker, if you finish work at 8.00 pm on Monday you should not start work until 7.00 am on Tuesday.
If you are an adult worker you have the right to a break of at least 11 hours between working days. This means as an adult worker, if you finish work at 8.00 pm on Monday you should not start work until 7.00 am on Tuesday.
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For all Rostered shifts you must have 11 hours rest between shifts, this is from your clocking out time to clocking on the next day,.
You used to be able to reduce this to 8 hours by signing a Waiver form issued by your company or by collective agreement with the Unions however this cannot be the case now for rostered shifts.
This is also the case for any Re-Rosters that may be required.
You can still work with 8 Hours if there is overtime at either the end of your late or start of your early as being in an Operational area this can be be classed as Operational requirements, however you will find that this is still quite contentious and would probably not hold up in a court of law.
The main issue with the WTD is that it is Law and if an employee had an accident either at work or on the way to or from work part of the investigation would track back to hours worked and the company / manager who approved the breaking of the 11 hour could be found culpable, this is all the more evident if your company has electronic time and attendance monitoring.
Many people are under the mis-conception that Ground Handling is covered by the Transport waiver however this is not the case, working at an Airport is no different to factory which employs people and is open for 18-24 hours a day.
Most Ground Handling companies would choose to ignore the WTD as to enforce it rigidly would mean employing a lot more staff, employees choose to ignore it as they want flexibility in their working life and also want to work overtime as quite often salaries are low in the industry especially at regional airports.
You will generally find that Trade Unions will or should support the WTD as it should protect the employee and give a greater work / life balance however as stated due the industry pay scales this is not always the case.
In mainland Europe particularly Germany, France & The Netherlands you will find the WTD stringently applied
You used to be able to reduce this to 8 hours by signing a Waiver form issued by your company or by collective agreement with the Unions however this cannot be the case now for rostered shifts.
This is also the case for any Re-Rosters that may be required.
You can still work with 8 Hours if there is overtime at either the end of your late or start of your early as being in an Operational area this can be be classed as Operational requirements, however you will find that this is still quite contentious and would probably not hold up in a court of law.
The main issue with the WTD is that it is Law and if an employee had an accident either at work or on the way to or from work part of the investigation would track back to hours worked and the company / manager who approved the breaking of the 11 hour could be found culpable, this is all the more evident if your company has electronic time and attendance monitoring.
Many people are under the mis-conception that Ground Handling is covered by the Transport waiver however this is not the case, working at an Airport is no different to factory which employs people and is open for 18-24 hours a day.
Most Ground Handling companies would choose to ignore the WTD as to enforce it rigidly would mean employing a lot more staff, employees choose to ignore it as they want flexibility in their working life and also want to work overtime as quite often salaries are low in the industry especially at regional airports.
You will generally find that Trade Unions will or should support the WTD as it should protect the employee and give a greater work / life balance however as stated due the industry pay scales this is not always the case.
In mainland Europe particularly Germany, France & The Netherlands you will find the WTD stringently applied
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... Thanks all for your replies. (SkySky, how are you?, hope your surviving EDI!).
As I would expect in mainland Europe the regulations are adhered to. - What is it with the U.K that we let ourselves be treated wrongly and still go along with it?. I called the person highest up the tree within Personnel at Menzies Aviation who confirmed to me that he understood the rest period (adequate) to be 11 hours. That person also told me that there may be certain times Operationally that I may be asked to work outwith the normal expected times but that would be to cover emergencies or only a specific thing. As this is ROSTERED for me and has been for this summer season I still know the minimum rest period is breached. As Blue - Shamrock 89 says, Rostered shifts.
Groundagent, Capt Wannabe, SkySky & Blue - Shamrock 89, thanks for your replies.
I found myself at the weekend there struggling with what would normally be a busy but straight forward working day. I was very tired from less than a few hours rest and felt my job suffered as I was not as aware as I normally would be. I know the ground handling agents are all under such financial pressures in 2011 but today's pressures are killing this industry as a decent place to work. - Certainly within the UK.
As I would expect in mainland Europe the regulations are adhered to. - What is it with the U.K that we let ourselves be treated wrongly and still go along with it?. I called the person highest up the tree within Personnel at Menzies Aviation who confirmed to me that he understood the rest period (adequate) to be 11 hours. That person also told me that there may be certain times Operationally that I may be asked to work outwith the normal expected times but that would be to cover emergencies or only a specific thing. As this is ROSTERED for me and has been for this summer season I still know the minimum rest period is breached. As Blue - Shamrock 89 says, Rostered shifts.
Groundagent, Capt Wannabe, SkySky & Blue - Shamrock 89, thanks for your replies.
I found myself at the weekend there struggling with what would normally be a busy but straight forward working day. I was very tired from less than a few hours rest and felt my job suffered as I was not as aware as I normally would be. I know the ground handling agents are all under such financial pressures in 2011 but today's pressures are killing this industry as a decent place to work. - Certainly within the UK.
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I'm reading all this with interest, it seems even worse than I remember. I'm doing my best to raise awareness about this at very high level, so the more info I have the better 
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Do you just copy and paste the same sentence to each thread AirResearcher?
VictorCharlieTen, when you moved across to Menzies did you sign anything to say you would work longer hours (if so, ask to see the form to see if it mentioned anything about rest between shifts). Have you spoke to the person who does your roster and mentioned your concerns?
VictorCharlieTen, when you moved across to Menzies did you sign anything to say you would work longer hours (if so, ask to see the form to see if it mentioned anything about rest between shifts). Have you spoke to the person who does your roster and mentioned your concerns?
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Haha no tigger...I'm exceptionally tight on time for the next few weeks ..and everyones views in every dept of aviation are all highly relevant and equally important.... I can read a lot faster than I can type so I'm trying to absorb as much as possible what issues are causing genuine concern...
Last edited by AirResearcher; 19th Jul 2011 at 17:14.
AR
I'm doing my best to raise awareness about this at very high level, so the more info I have the better
I'm doing my best to raise awareness about this at very high level, so the more info I have the better
So where and at what 'high level' are you raising these concerns on our behalf?
Oh, and those of aircrew and engineers that you are also working on, not forgetting that you are sorting out 'aircrew conditions in particular'.
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Jumpseater... all will be revealed in a month or so...suffice to say its the highest level possible, and yes I'm working on helping conditions for everyone in the industry, ground or air. So again, the more feedback I have , the better - from everyone... thanks!
AR ...suffice to say its the highest level possible, and yes I'm working on helping conditions for everyone in the industry, ground or air.
No it's not sufficient to say that actually. Where is the evidence of any 'work'. All you've managed to do in your previous posts is string a few sentences together that anyone could do grazing through different sections of this forum.
What is this 'highest level'? It's not a difficult question, I must admit on the basis of the few responses you've had here, I'll be fascinated to see the plausibility of someone raising OPS/engineering maintenance/aircrew across the industry at the highest level. Me thinks it will be 'lacking'.
So just to clarify, what is the 'highest level' in aviation?
You see I wonder, because when preparing research 'stuff' for a UK Government representative for an ICAO Montreal conference, (on PANS-OPS and green issues), a few years back, we didn't have people running round saying 'a bloke on the interweb told me'. It was all a little more, erm, what's the word?, 'thorough'..., yup, that's the word ..., 'thorough'.
(n.b. ICAO is considered by some, to be quite a 'high level')
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IATA/ICAO - The industry takes what it wants from their regualtions and blatantly ignore other parts.....
I have a perfect example:
AHM630 14.6.1.2 - Thunderstorm/Lightning
Stop/Suspend Activities - Lightning Activity is detected within 5km (3 miles) of your operation...
How many times has your Handling Agent and/or Airport Authority imposed/ignored this instruction?
I could give loads more examples but we all know them....
I have a perfect example:
AHM630 14.6.1.2 - Thunderstorm/Lightning
Stop/Suspend Activities - Lightning Activity is detected within 5km (3 miles) of your operation...
How many times has your Handling Agent and/or Airport Authority imposed/ignored this instruction?
I could give loads more examples but we all know them....
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Whilst at Menzies (EDI) last year, I was on the Continental team, so every shift was (at least) an 0600L start...however, I used to also cover o/t on the easy team and often wouldn't finish 'til 2300L....and would be back on 7 hours later.....my choice...and not a word was said !!
Personal choice, maybe.....and I won't say a word about doing 4 doubles (0400-2200) in a row when I was working for bmi !! Never harmed me.
Personal choice, maybe.....and I won't say a word about doing 4 doubles (0400-2200) in a row when I was working for bmi !! Never harmed me.
