Safety in the Balance
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Hmmm..not good...
I'd be interested to hear from any more despatchers reading the guys comments above to see if this is the same everywhere. I'm guessing most of you dont have any union possibilities to fight your corner, so you're on your own?
I was going to ask if that was just doing narrow bodies, but obviously not Big Blue... Do you have to do freighters too?
Does everyone have to do full Dangerous Goods training too now, or just an 'awareness' lecture??
Thanks for being so candid ...its much appreciated and I'll be raising the issues as and when I get enough material to encourage some changes.
I'd be interested to hear from any more despatchers reading the guys comments above to see if this is the same everywhere. I'm guessing most of you dont have any union possibilities to fight your corner, so you're on your own?
I was going to ask if that was just doing narrow bodies, but obviously not Big Blue... Do you have to do freighters too?
Does everyone have to do full Dangerous Goods training too now, or just an 'awareness' lecture??
Thanks for being so candid ...its much appreciated and I'll be raising the issues as and when I get enough material to encourage some changes.
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We have freighters, but they are very small aircrafts. I dont even know what type they are, i dont deal with them very often at all.
The dangerous goods course I did was just an awareness course i think. Id imagine the cargo guys have to do a much more in depth course.
The problem we have is getting everybody to stick together, and also an apathy amongst staff towards the situtation.Also the problem of staff not understanding the importance of their role either, so not realising how underpaid they are.
I had a discussion with my manager the other day regarding pay. I was told that ramp guys, even the guys who only handle bags and dont operate any machines, are paid more because its classed as an industrial job.
A dispatcher/TRC is supposed to oversee the health and safety on the ramp and spend the majority of the turnround underwing, and will be the first to be asked how an incident was allowed to occur, yet thats classed as a Passenger Services position.
Ive had enough to be honest. I love my job but im fed up not being paid enough and being constantly exhausted because im working so much to earn a decent wage.
The dangerous goods course I did was just an awareness course i think. Id imagine the cargo guys have to do a much more in depth course.
The problem we have is getting everybody to stick together, and also an apathy amongst staff towards the situtation.Also the problem of staff not understanding the importance of their role either, so not realising how underpaid they are.
I had a discussion with my manager the other day regarding pay. I was told that ramp guys, even the guys who only handle bags and dont operate any machines, are paid more because its classed as an industrial job.
A dispatcher/TRC is supposed to oversee the health and safety on the ramp and spend the majority of the turnround underwing, and will be the first to be asked how an incident was allowed to occur, yet thats classed as a Passenger Services position.
Ive had enough to be honest. I love my job but im fed up not being paid enough and being constantly exhausted because im working so much to earn a decent wage.
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By the sound of it, I work for the same company as Bigblue.
AFAIK, dispatchers are on the lowest pay scale of everyone within the company (or possibly on par with clerical staff), because apparently we don't have the same responsibility as ramp staff or passenger service agents
AFAIK, dispatchers are on the lowest pay scale of everyone within the company (or possibly on par with clerical staff), because apparently we don't have the same responsibility as ramp staff or passenger service agents
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Yes it sound like we do 750.
My manager knows how much of a responsibility the job has, agrees we are underpaid, yet does eff all about it.
They started an incentive for us to try and improve doors closed time on BA flights. All its going to do is cause people to cut corners and take risks with safety so they can get a bit of extra cash. Maybe they should just pay us accordingly and they would get the calibre of staff required for such an important job.
My manager knows how much of a responsibility the job has, agrees we are underpaid, yet does eff all about it.
They started an incentive for us to try and improve doors closed time on BA flights. All its going to do is cause people to cut corners and take risks with safety so they can get a bit of extra cash. Maybe they should just pay us accordingly and they would get the calibre of staff required for such an important job.
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This is obviously more of an issue with low loads at the bottom half of the envelope on the 738, and other variants, which always has a more restrictive c of g range at low zfw. So if FR etc encourage people not to take hold baggage, and they dont seem to make a habit of carrying freight, youre always going have less of the envelope at ZFW, and consequently less margin for error. Because it also no an exact science in this instance, the stab trim is not going to be as accurate as for example allocated seating + computerised loadsheet as the indices are not so precise. It may be unrelated, but have you noticed that instances of tailscrapes seem to be creeping up?
Theres also the issue of whether all the cabin crew are fully aware of WHY seat rows need to be blocked so its rigidly enforced, though I think FR are pretty strict on that thankfully.
Theres also the issue of whether all the cabin crew are fully aware of WHY seat rows need to be blocked so its rigidly enforced, though I think FR are pretty strict on that thankfully.
Oh and FR do not carry Cargo at all now...
I worked at a regional airport back in the 90's where FR had a hub. They are a completely different outfit now. They have a quality AHM and online support for all stations which is tbh better than alot of "big Mainstream National Airlines I could mention be they from the UK or Germany
"a fleet of 272 B738 which the oldest is 4yrs is not bad for a LCC with no morals or standards
OTP figures that other carriers could only dream of... should I go on...FR
As far as FC (Dispatcher) pay scales it is the same everywhere. Our FC's also carry out Pushback and are still some of the lowest paid workers on the Airfield... Oh and it is wrong!!!
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Well all I can say is FR are one of the few Airlines that send a Load Control Trainer to new Handling Agents and train usually very experienced LC's and FC's in manual Loadsheets etc.
As with most stuff, we're trained to do FR load sheets by someone who doesn't do FR themselves. After initial training, go 8 months without doing a single flight, shadow 4 flights then get rostered to go live
To be fair, Ryanair load sheets aren't all that difficult. As long as you can add and subtract (or should I say, have a calculator on you) there's nothing too taxing about it. The difficult part is trying to coordinate the turnaround while doing the loadsheet, when its -15c outside, icey on the apron and pitch black
Not sure about other stations but where I work, the company will not pay for anyone to stand outside to 'watch' the pax, other than the dispatcher. We're expected to coordinate the turnaround, supervise the off/onload of passengers and complete the loadsheet all at the same time
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As I can only go by the stations I have worked or know about I cannot comment on your station. Maybe because we are a foreign station we get special attention to ensure we are "up to scratch"
Oh and its been a while since I had to work in -15 conditions
The STN FR operation works well with Loader/Dispatchers who do everything but I dont think it will be ever used at my station...
PAX should always be escorted on the Ramp its basic Safety & Security....
Oh and its been a while since I had to work in -15 conditions
The STN FR operation works well with Loader/Dispatchers who do everything but I dont think it will be ever used at my station...
PAX should always be escorted on the Ramp its basic Safety & Security....
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Hi Aergid
Thanks for very valid comments.
Are the OTP figs you mention based on off-chocks, or arrival times?
FR's schedules from what I have seen seem to have a lot of fat built into them compared to similar sectors with other airlines, so that plus the less congested airports may skew the figs somewhat, as do their lost baggage figs as they a\ encourage people not to carry checked bags and b\their interpretation of 'lost' baggage doesnt seem to be the same as other (IATA) airlines
The other side of the coin of course is, as others have said, is a superb OTD record with 25 min turnrounds a wise thing to be proud of it (and I'm emphasise that 'IF' very very strongly) there is any evidence of ultra fast turnrounds encouraging anything to not be given the fullest attention it deserves?
Ref the w&b training thats good to hear, but its only one part of the chain... especially where free seating is in use.... whether thats crew understanding of restricted seating, or the guys that design the loadsheets and loading policies, etc etc
Thanks for very valid comments.
Are the OTP figs you mention based on off-chocks, or arrival times?
FR's schedules from what I have seen seem to have a lot of fat built into them compared to similar sectors with other airlines, so that plus the less congested airports may skew the figs somewhat, as do their lost baggage figs as they a\ encourage people not to carry checked bags and b\their interpretation of 'lost' baggage doesnt seem to be the same as other (IATA) airlines
The other side of the coin of course is, as others have said, is a superb OTD record with 25 min turnrounds a wise thing to be proud of it (and I'm emphasise that 'IF' very very strongly) there is any evidence of ultra fast turnrounds encouraging anything to not be given the fullest attention it deserves?
Ref the w&b training thats good to hear, but its only one part of the chain... especially where free seating is in use.... whether thats crew understanding of restricted seating, or the guys that design the loadsheets and loading policies, etc etc
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Ps..Agree with Aergid, the last thing a despatcher should be doing is watching the pax on the apron, thats a passenger service function. FR dont want to use airbridges to save cash, so they should pay a pax svc agent or 2 to do that.. no?
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Unfortunately, with regards to a certain Circus handling agent, it would appear to be a company policy to ultimately eradicate the position of Dispatcher which is one of the reasons they have their own Central load control here in Manchester and the Dispatcher is now reduced to nothing more than someone who rips a loadsheet of the printer and passes to the Cpt.
Dispatch here in Manchester is now classed as a part of passenger services and is run by people who have no concept of the job or its responsibilities
We only have 2 airlines left - SN Brussels and Swiss, where the old position of Dispatching still exist where you're in charge of the load control functions and only because the airlines themselves insist on it.
As for pay, well, pro-rata, we're the lowest paid in the company and of all the other handling agents and as Bigbluebroxi points out, it's a fact acknowledge by our own manager but as usual your constantly reminded that you're lucky to have a job, let alone a pay rise !!!
As for myself, well, the next time a Captain puts in an official complaint because his late running fully loaded aircraft wasn't turned around in 20mins and seeks to blame myself, I just include a copy of my wage slip with the report - makes it all feel worthwhile
- all the responsibility and none of the authority !!
Dispatch here in Manchester is now classed as a part of passenger services and is run by people who have no concept of the job or its responsibilities
We only have 2 airlines left - SN Brussels and Swiss, where the old position of Dispatching still exist where you're in charge of the load control functions and only because the airlines themselves insist on it.
As for pay, well, pro-rata, we're the lowest paid in the company and of all the other handling agents and as Bigbluebroxi points out, it's a fact acknowledge by our own manager but as usual your constantly reminded that you're lucky to have a job, let alone a pay rise !!!
As for myself, well, the next time a Captain puts in an official complaint because his late running fully loaded aircraft wasn't turned around in 20mins and seeks to blame myself, I just include a copy of my wage slip with the report - makes it all feel worthwhile
- all the responsibility and none of the authority !!
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I must admit some of the flight times are slightly on the generous side, and yes we have a few A/C arriving very early due to this, but on the whole their simplified turnround is a joy to observe (as long as you are not one of the pax who are being treated like cattle lol)..
Everything is geared up for 25min turnrounds- Pre-Boarding, outbound baggage on stand for the arrival, Stand coordination between fuellers/loaders, Dispatcher always on stand.
Also the Airline supply 1 member of the cabin crew to "assist passenger services" (we use the crew member for pax escort)...
The fd crew also informs the cabin crew on seat blocks eg 1st 5 rows etc depending on loads.
Everything is geared up for 25min turnrounds- Pre-Boarding, outbound baggage on stand for the arrival, Stand coordination between fuellers/loaders, Dispatcher always on stand.
Also the Airline supply 1 member of the cabin crew to "assist passenger services" (we use the crew member for pax escort)...
The fd crew also informs the cabin crew on seat blocks eg 1st 5 rows etc depending on loads.
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The wages at the hinted company are not amazing no! And I completely agree with Bigblue and 750XL. If i remember, ICS summer temps were getting more then the dispatchers.
I remember last year being difficult, taking home anything between 500-700 a month (anyting over 700 is a good wage), Even if the loading was CLC, you was still the one to cross check and have to account for the delays if Edition 2 took an age to come through. It's a never ending battle. And as much as I love the job. you have to ask sometimes. Can I afford to work here
Last year I was making £6.17 an hour with no shift pay as I was 20 hours temp. I admit I am in a much better position now with a different company but still. I fuly support users as such bigblue and 750XL, and of course, every dispatcher out there!
And just to add, Nice video Bruce
I remember last year being difficult, taking home anything between 500-700 a month (anyting over 700 is a good wage), Even if the loading was CLC, you was still the one to cross check and have to account for the delays if Edition 2 took an age to come through. It's a never ending battle. And as much as I love the job. you have to ask sometimes. Can I afford to work here
Last year I was making £6.17 an hour with no shift pay as I was 20 hours temp. I admit I am in a much better position now with a different company but still. I fuly support users as such bigblue and 750XL, and of course, every dispatcher out there!
And just to add, Nice video Bruce
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£6.17 per hour.......................... !!! If you get two (shorthaul) flights away on time in 60 mins thats about £3 per flight for a heck of a lot of responsibility. If you screw up and cause a delay/miss a slot (which most of you won't because you are too conscientious), the cost to the carrier could be in the tens of thousands........
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Hello,
How can I order the Bruce Dickinson Safety in the Balance DVD ?
There is nothing obvious on CAA and GHOST websites only an email who does not answer in 3 days.
I need it quickly to help train people in this field.
Thanks for the help
Thierry
How can I order the Bruce Dickinson Safety in the Balance DVD ?
There is nothing obvious on CAA and GHOST websites only an email who does not answer in 3 days.
I need it quickly to help train people in this field.
Thanks for the help
Thierry
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You don't have to buy it, you can down load it free of charge from this link
Ground Handling Operations Safety Team (GHOST) | Safety Initiatives | Safety Regulation
Ground Handling Operations Safety Team (GHOST) | Safety Initiatives | Safety Regulation
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Finish at 2330 and back at 0530 is illegal under WTD, that is only 6 hours rest, 11 hours is the legal requirement which can be reduced to 8 for operational requirements or by mutual agreement or quite often a collective agreement.
No matter how much the company fob you off, 6 hours is ridiculous, if you had an accident on the way to or from work part of the investigation would look into your working hours and the company, ultimately your manager could be prosecuted.
No matter how much the company fob you off, 6 hours is ridiculous, if you had an accident on the way to or from work part of the investigation would look into your working hours and the company, ultimately your manager could be prosecuted.