Lido - who use it?
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All above named Airlines except VS are using LIDO OC and not just the EFB.
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Austin Danger Powers;
First of all would you mind refraining from taking such an agressive attitude - there is really no need for it and only reflects on yourself. Thank you.
So all the airlines 'above named' use LIDO aside from VS....and GOL....and Qantas....anymore? Someone else questioned Emirates as well....
The reason these LIDO postings annoy me (Schilbulsky) is that they always end up being a rather flat line sales pitch (in-house?) why the system is so good. Many of us here know flight planning inside out, so give us some technical insight why you think LIDO is the best system outthere. All I have done is question the system based on experience - I have used specific examples which are open to your counter opinion.
And just in regards to this one again:
Anyone with an ounce of serious experience within this industry will know exactly what I mean when I say IATA fuel audits in regards to the above quote - so please don't go down that road.
So if we can please refrain from going down the MOL road of communications I look forward to some specific examples why you think it's the beeeez kneeeez.
In the meantime am quite happy with my Danish CFPT!
So whats your ******* problem
All above named Airlines except VS are using LIDO OC and not just the EFB.
The reason these LIDO postings annoy me (Schilbulsky) is that they always end up being a rather flat line sales pitch (in-house?) why the system is so good. Many of us here know flight planning inside out, so give us some technical insight why you think LIDO is the best system outthere. All I have done is question the system based on experience - I have used specific examples which are open to your counter opinion.
And just in regards to this one again:
LIDO sales guys are top notch
So if we can please refrain from going down the MOL road of communications I look forward to some specific examples why you think it's the beeeez kneeeez.
In the meantime am quite happy with my Danish CFPT!
Last edited by Lauderdale; 19th Jul 2009 at 23:08. Reason: Spelling..... as always!
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Someone else questioned Emirates as well....
Witch small county hopping Airline are you working for?
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Hi Lauderdale, I never said LIDO is the best, I was just wondering about your attacks. I was using LIDO from day 1 with LH. I would call it the "dark ages of LIDO"...lots of teething problems. But basically the system is nowadays very successful, and that is simply because it performs well. I dont know what your specific examples are, you were mostly using scryptic hints for the "guys with experience within the industry".
What about the guys who handles the output of a FPL system? I talked to a friend at CFMU/IFPS and he confirmed that LIDO generated ATC plns are much less likely to be rejected and if they were, its a 50/50 chance that the IFPS is wrong! And I met a lot of pilots who could not believe that the fuel consumption was almost all the time identical with the OFP numbers.
When it comes to optimization it sometimes takes some experience to guide the system towards the optimum, thats mainly because of too many options like min time/fuel/cost. I never met anybody who switched to LIDO and was missing his former system.
At the end LIDO gives you what you pay for. Its basically like a BMW, initially nicely priced but with a huuuuuge list for expensive extras attached.
And YES, we are using LIDO at Emirates
BTW I also dont like the LIDO sales guys...but I couldnt care less
@Austin: please cool down a bit
What about the guys who handles the output of a FPL system? I talked to a friend at CFMU/IFPS and he confirmed that LIDO generated ATC plns are much less likely to be rejected and if they were, its a 50/50 chance that the IFPS is wrong! And I met a lot of pilots who could not believe that the fuel consumption was almost all the time identical with the OFP numbers.
When it comes to optimization it sometimes takes some experience to guide the system towards the optimum, thats mainly because of too many options like min time/fuel/cost. I never met anybody who switched to LIDO and was missing his former system.
At the end LIDO gives you what you pay for. Its basically like a BMW, initially nicely priced but with a huuuuuge list for expensive extras attached.
And YES, we are using LIDO at Emirates
BTW I also dont like the LIDO sales guys...but I couldnt care less
@Austin: please cool down a bit
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HLZ8181
Got another one to cross out on the list guys!
Korean Air - you guessed it. They don't use Lido....
Not 100% sure about Air France, but my money says they don't either...
Korean Air - you guessed it. They don't use Lido....
Not 100% sure about Air France, but my money says they don't either...
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Schibulsky - thank you for you constructive reply and it forms the basis for a healthy discussion and exchange of information which at the end of the day is what we are all here for.
Austin Danger Powers
Apart from the fact that I do not fly on a broomstick (witch??).......
Enough said......
Austin Danger Powers
Witch small county hopping Airline are you working for?
Korean Air - you guessed it. They don't use Lido....
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Guys, I think the discussion about what the "best" system is rivals only the endless and fruitless discussion "Boeing or Bus".
There are too many different users with different needs and budgets.
I am quite happy with LIDO and for worldwide operating airlines with ETOPS and other special operations its IMHO very good. Provided you have enough money
Its still fun to show the younger dispatchers how LIDO can be worked to squeeze out the last drop and save the requested load or make a hopeless flight a go! But like with all pieces of IT that we have to use...I sometimes like to take some heavy object and smash the
screen.
LIDO basically entered the market with an inventive system based on latest technology when the rest of the competitors were sleeping happily on their achievements of the past.
But recently LH systems is making a common error by outsourcing key data maintenance to countries with lower wages and subsequently eroding the quality of the product
Lets watch and see...
There are too many different users with different needs and budgets.
I am quite happy with LIDO and for worldwide operating airlines with ETOPS and other special operations its IMHO very good. Provided you have enough money
Its still fun to show the younger dispatchers how LIDO can be worked to squeeze out the last drop and save the requested load or make a hopeless flight a go! But like with all pieces of IT that we have to use...I sometimes like to take some heavy object and smash the
screen.LIDO basically entered the market with an inventive system based on latest technology when the rest of the competitors were sleeping happily on their achievements of the past.
But recently LH systems is making a common error by outsourcing key data maintenance to countries with lower wages and subsequently eroding the quality of the product
Lets watch and see...
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Schibulsky - totally 100% agree in regards to the futility of having a discussing as to what is the 'better' system. Horses for courses in the sense that you would not get a LIDO system if you are a 5 tail regional operator. Equally I suppose you would not use AirData if you operate a large fleet with complex operations (ETOPS etc).
I do see tremendous value however in using these forums (in the literal sense of the word) to share information on tools of the trade. From funky stuff all the way down to the bits that make you want to tear your hair out but perhaps can be resolved through some user experience shared here.
For example - I have been told that 'your' system uses auto rwy end selection by reading TAFs etc. Is this something that is functional and you as an airline have found a useful feature?
HHI Ops I am not thread hijacking and will happily start a new one to cover this type of discussion.
I do see tremendous value however in using these forums (in the literal sense of the word) to share information on tools of the trade. From funky stuff all the way down to the bits that make you want to tear your hair out but perhaps can be resolved through some user experience shared here.
For example - I have been told that 'your' system uses auto rwy end selection by reading TAFs etc. Is this something that is functional and you as an airline have found a useful feature?
HHI Ops I am not thread hijacking and will happily start a new one to cover this type of discussion.
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Yep...we have this feature, it works fine, you first have to sort the rwy so the most preferential rwy is checked first and than down to the least. That is done once by the back office.
Basically Lido checks all arr/dep/altn airports and ETOPS airports for suitability incl. Wx, Notams, curfew etc.
Its not perfect, i.e. when the wind turns 180 deg during the checked time it says airport not suitable due to tailwind. But thats a minor problem.
The stupid idea that was behind part of the Lido philosophy is an all automated system, rendering the dispatcher obsolete!
Didnt work, beside the fully automated system for short haul flights but it helps with the basic checks, saving a lot of time!
Anyway, you are right...it makes more sense to hear from the real customers than from the snake oil salesmen..but thats not only the Lido guys
Basically Lido checks all arr/dep/altn airports and ETOPS airports for suitability incl. Wx, Notams, curfew etc.
Its not perfect, i.e. when the wind turns 180 deg during the checked time it says airport not suitable due to tailwind. But thats a minor problem.
The stupid idea that was behind part of the Lido philosophy is an all automated system, rendering the dispatcher obsolete!
Didnt work, beside the fully automated system for short haul flights but it helps with the basic checks, saving a lot of time!
Anyway, you are right...it makes more sense to hear from the real customers than from the snake oil salesmen..but thats not only the Lido guys
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@lauderdale:
why dont you just check the LH-Systems Hompeage? All airlines using LIDO are posted there...
You just have to check wheather they use LIDO OC or other Nav Services.
I was to lazy to do that, so maybe there are some airlines posted from myside with just use the EFB instead the OC.
But i havent heared anything from your side regarding to the question:
"Who is using LIDO"
I just read stuff about "blahh blahh...me and blah LIDO" but that wasnt the question.
So, please go ahead, i am waiting.
why dont you just check the LH-Systems Hompeage? All airlines using LIDO are posted there...
You just have to check wheather they use LIDO OC or other Nav Services.
I was to lazy to do that, so maybe there are some airlines posted from myside with just use the EFB instead the OC.
But i havent heared anything from your side regarding to the question:
"Who is using LIDO"
I just read stuff about "blahh blahh...me and blah LIDO" but that wasnt the question.
So, please go ahead, i am waiting.
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Virgin Atlantic is using Class 2 EFB.
V Australia ( a part of Virgin ) is using LIDO Route manual, LIDO FMS / LIDO eAPM.
Virgin Atlantic Airways reduces paper in the cockpit with SkyBook solution from Lufthansa Systems
V Australia soaring across the Pacific with navigation solutions from Lufthansa Systems
and now good bye. this thread is more like kindergarden....
V Australia ( a part of Virgin ) is using LIDO Route manual, LIDO FMS / LIDO eAPM.
Virgin Atlantic Airways reduces paper in the cockpit with SkyBook solution from Lufthansa Systems
V Australia soaring across the Pacific with navigation solutions from Lufthansa Systems
and now good bye. this thread is more like kindergarden....
Given that I fly for VS, I would probably know if we are using an EFB.
I can assure you there is no sign of one on the flight deck. Although one aircraft did get the basic wiring installed briefly(long since removed)
Perhaps you might be reading some old advertising 'blurb' from a few years ago when a CL2 EFB was being considered rather than stating the facts from personal knowledge.
Anyway, just trying to help
B rgds
MR
I can assure you there is no sign of one on the flight deck. Although one aircraft did get the basic wiring installed briefly(long since removed)
Perhaps you might be reading some old advertising 'blurb' from a few years ago when a CL2 EFB was being considered rather than stating the facts from personal knowledge.
Anyway, just trying to help
B rgds
MR
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Airbridgecargo
Airbridgecargo and Volga-Dnepr uses LIDO as well. (for B-744 and including AN124). LIDO calculations are quite precise. And, yeah,..less FPL rej-s from Eurocontrol.
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ACCESS
Hi,
I read your posts and see that you have information about this system (LIDO,WebBriefing,etc ..)If you have access to any airline,I am reluctant to agree, and even some airlines to exchange.If you have something real OFP, FPL continue and reply TO PRIVATE MSG :-) Anonymity and confidentiality is yes of course.
BEST REGARDS BAW20UQ
I read your posts and see that you have information about this system (LIDO,WebBriefing,etc ..)If you have access to any airline,I am reluctant to agree, and even some airlines to exchange.If you have something real OFP, FPL continue and reply TO PRIVATE MSG :-) Anonymity and confidentiality is yes of course.
BEST REGARDS BAW20UQ
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sorry change of subject
i am looking for dissapointed people who took the expensive jeppesen training and didnt get a job ......and feelll bad about them and want to start a chat .......ok and try to spare the message to innocents that everyday paid for that sort of unnecesary stafff they gave you ...............................thanks
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As a LIDO user, I hate it. Most of our staff despise it too. Why?
Well, a lot of the promiesed functionality has yet to arrive. The TAF/METAR/NOTAM reader is unreliable. IE, just now I was told an alternate was not needed for an arrival airport.. Lido didn't read the tempo. A lot of this comes from the actual coding of the wx/notams by what ever state issues the info. But a lot of times, it just doesn't get it. The suitability check is not useful to me. The probelm you mentioned with the wind switch has caused several issues with our carrier, and resulting new procedures and the occasional LOI.
I think the biggest heartache I have was the functionality we were promised, and based our workloads off of, hasn't been delivered and thus we're getting hammered. WHen we relied on the planned functionality, we got bit so to speak... and now we don't trust it. A bit like having your woman cheat on you, she says never again but... So, after some certificate action... we're told to pretty much ignore the suitability check and don't rely on the alerting function. Then there's the weekly outage we seem to have every Monday morming to install patches. Often the 15 minute outage can extend for a couple hours, though that's becoming less and less of an issue when the delays starting piling on.
And there's some buggy code, for instance we have issues with redispatch calculations being inaccurate and thusly we have banned redispatches. May favorite though is running scenarios for MFT, MTT, and MCT and having the MFT be quicker than the MTT, but the MTT costs less than the MCT. Happens a good bit crossing the oceans. There the over optimization issue, where the altitude porfile can look like a roller coaster track (and through terrain... seriously), and in the US it's hard to plan point to point across the country due to lack of waypoint connections in the database.
other than that, it's great!
The only only other system I've used is NavTech, which by no means was everything for everything. But I never had near the issues with support and outages.
Well, a lot of the promiesed functionality has yet to arrive. The TAF/METAR/NOTAM reader is unreliable. IE, just now I was told an alternate was not needed for an arrival airport.. Lido didn't read the tempo. A lot of this comes from the actual coding of the wx/notams by what ever state issues the info. But a lot of times, it just doesn't get it. The suitability check is not useful to me. The probelm you mentioned with the wind switch has caused several issues with our carrier, and resulting new procedures and the occasional LOI.
I think the biggest heartache I have was the functionality we were promised, and based our workloads off of, hasn't been delivered and thus we're getting hammered. WHen we relied on the planned functionality, we got bit so to speak... and now we don't trust it. A bit like having your woman cheat on you, she says never again but... So, after some certificate action... we're told to pretty much ignore the suitability check and don't rely on the alerting function. Then there's the weekly outage we seem to have every Monday morming to install patches. Often the 15 minute outage can extend for a couple hours, though that's becoming less and less of an issue when the delays starting piling on.
And there's some buggy code, for instance we have issues with redispatch calculations being inaccurate and thusly we have banned redispatches. May favorite though is running scenarios for MFT, MTT, and MCT and having the MFT be quicker than the MTT, but the MTT costs less than the MCT. Happens a good bit crossing the oceans. There the over optimization issue, where the altitude porfile can look like a roller coaster track (and through terrain... seriously), and in the US it's hard to plan point to point across the country due to lack of waypoint connections in the database.
other than that, it's great!
The only only other system I've used is NavTech, which by no means was everything for everything. But I never had near the issues with support and outages.