BA Dispatchers
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BA Dispatchers
Hi
I've been told that to become a dispatcher with BA you need to do 5 years service before you've got a chance of getting a job. Is this true?
Also most companies recruit internally for dispatchers. I was wondering what happened if dispatchers want to change companies. Do they need to take positions as Customer Service Agents or Ramp Agents until dispatch positions arise within their new company?
Thanks for your help
I've been told that to become a dispatcher with BA you need to do 5 years service before you've got a chance of getting a job. Is this true?
Also most companies recruit internally for dispatchers. I was wondering what happened if dispatchers want to change companies. Do they need to take positions as Customer Service Agents or Ramp Agents until dispatch positions arise within their new company?
Thanks for your help
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I don't know about 5 years but at BA they only recruit Dispatchers internally and as it is possibly one of the very few companies who still seem to respect the role. it is still a prestigious job, which means very few people leave etc.
They have recruited dispatchers recently and quite a lot have reasonable service although i know that some have less than 2 years service, but previous experience.
You would most certainly have to work on Check in or the ramp first and the starting rates of pay in these areas is not that great anymore although you do get the airline perks if you can afford to use them !
Many of the handling agents also recruit from within but they do accept from outside as the standard of internal candidates is not good enough due to the salaries on offer etc.
I am referring to Heathrow, what happens elsewhere i wouldn't know about, but having worked at Heathrow for 16 years in various roles including Dispatch / Load Control / ops etc, i wouldn't think any other airport would provide the Challenges of LHR.
They have recruited dispatchers recently and quite a lot have reasonable service although i know that some have less than 2 years service, but previous experience.
You would most certainly have to work on Check in or the ramp first and the starting rates of pay in these areas is not that great anymore although you do get the airline perks if you can afford to use them !
Many of the handling agents also recruit from within but they do accept from outside as the standard of internal candidates is not good enough due to the salaries on offer etc.
I am referring to Heathrow, what happens elsewhere i wouldn't know about, but having worked at Heathrow for 16 years in various roles including Dispatch / Load Control / ops etc, i wouldn't think any other airport would provide the Challenges of LHR.
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I have been working for BA dispatch for the past year, I can confirm that recruitment is only internal, and that 'operational' experience is required. My background is engineering, and I would have to say that a lack of check in experience did hold me back somewhat to begin with, but after a year it just about makes sense now. I have been with BA for a total of 12 years, with experience at two major hubs, both as a techie and manager before Dispatch.
We, unlike handling agents, are all load control trained, and we have to requalify for our load control licenses every six months in much the same way as flight crew with their sim checks.
Typically, one day in six is a load control shift, with the other five out on the ramp. The work is hugely varied, and this is really what attracts me to it..you really never know what the next flight will bring.
Are you in tomorrow older wiser, I'm on an L1
We, unlike handling agents, are all load control trained, and we have to requalify for our load control licenses every six months in much the same way as flight crew with their sim checks.
Typically, one day in six is a load control shift, with the other five out on the ramp. The work is hugely varied, and this is really what attracts me to it..you really never know what the next flight will bring.
Are you in tomorrow older wiser, I'm on an L1
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Originally Posted by ANOTHER ton?
I have been working for BA dispatch for the past year, I can confirm that recruitment is only internal, and that 'operational' experience is required. My background is engineering, and I would have to say that a lack of check in experience did hold me back somewhat to begin with, but after a year it just about makes sense now. I have been with BA for a total of 12 years, with experience at two major hubs, both as a techie and manager before Dispatch.
We, unlike handling agents, are all load control trained, and we have to requalify for our load control licenses every six months in much the same way as flight crew with their sim checks.
Typically, one day in six is a load control shift, with the other five out on the ramp. The work is hugely varied, and this is really what attracts me to it..you really never know what the next flight will bring.
Are you in tomorrow older wiser, I'm on an L1
We, unlike handling agents, are all load control trained, and we have to requalify for our load control licenses every six months in much the same way as flight crew with their sim checks.
Typically, one day in six is a load control shift, with the other five out on the ramp. The work is hugely varied, and this is really what attracts me to it..you really never know what the next flight will bring.
Are you in tomorrow older wiser, I'm on an L1
Not only BA recruits internally. LH also does. Dont know what AF does...
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Can I just correct you on Lufthansa Operations? You can actually come in from the outside without check in or ramp experience. They are handled by Servisair at least as far as LHR goes anyway.
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Originally Posted by Aeropig909
Can I just correct you on Lufthansa Operations? You can actually come in from the outside without check in or ramp experience. They are handled by Servisair at least as far as LHR goes anyway.
You dont need operations experience, right. But you have to get your license at LH Flight training. If you got your license somewhere else you will never get the job.
With any other license than the german one you also wont get a job there.
Absolute impossible...
And actuelally noone get in because they have got enough staff...where did you get this info?
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Yes of course, I work for them. I joined Servisair direct from the "outside" and was then sent for training at Lufthansa, as you mention, on their Weight and Balance system.
I can tell you that I had no previous check in or ramp experience beyond my ATPL flying course.
I can tell you that I had no previous check in or ramp experience beyond my ATPL flying course.
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Originally Posted by Aeropig909
Yes of course, I work for them. I joined Servisair direct from the "outside" and was then sent for training at Lufthansa, as you mention, on their Weight and Balance system.
I can tell you that I had no previous check in or ramp experience beyond my ATPL flying course.
I can tell you that I had no previous check in or ramp experience beyond my ATPL flying course.
all right, what are you talking about?
If you are talking about Lufthansa Flight Dispatch, i am sorry to tell ya, that their only offices are in Germany and Hong Kong.
If you are talking from something else you dont talk about Flight Dispatch....maybe from Ground Handling and stuff, but NOT from Flightplanning guys.
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Ok I get you, sorry. Yes I am talking about Dispatch co-ordinator at Heathrow. We do the weight and balance and turn around co-ordination at the station.
As you say, the flight planning side is handled in Germany directly. Apologies, I thought we were talking about dispatch more generally.
As you say, the flight planning side is handled in Germany directly. Apologies, I thought we were talking about dispatch more generally.
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Originally Posted by Aeropig909
Ok I get you, sorry. Yes I am talking about Dispatch co-ordinator at Heathrow. We do the weight and balance and turn around co-ordination at the station.
As you say, the flight planning side is handled in Germany directly. Apologies, I thought we were talking about dispatch more generally.
As you say, the flight planning side is handled in Germany directly. Apologies, I thought we were talking about dispatch more generally.
all right, now everything is clear. Thought we talk about Flight Dispatch...sorry.
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Another Ton ?
Is it true that BA are trying to change your role at LHR by having seperate grades for Load control and Dispatch.
I have heard from several unhappy dispatchers that this could be on the cards.
I hope not as, like you mention You currently require to be load control trained, and too few companies take this serious now, with centralised ops etc.
That is one of the reasons i became dissillusioned as a load controller / Dispatcher / Ops controller was the way several companies downgraded the role
Is it true that BA are trying to change your role at LHR by having seperate grades for Load control and Dispatch.
I have heard from several unhappy dispatchers that this could be on the cards.
I hope not as, like you mention You currently require to be load control trained, and too few companies take this serious now, with centralised ops etc.
That is one of the reasons i became dissillusioned as a load controller / Dispatcher / Ops controller was the way several companies downgraded the role
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Hi Older wiser,
Nothing has been set in stone yet, but it would appear that by the time we move into T5, the dispatch role will have been split into Turn Round Manager and Centralised Load Control. TRM is dispatch-ish, but without load control licensing, CLC is as the name suggests.
I'm not sure what benefits this is supposed to bring to BA, as it would seem that now if a pallet doesn't turn up on stand I will no longer be able to retrim the aircraft and issue a new loadsheet, rather, I will have to phone a load controller in an office somewhere, relay the information, allow him to make a decision and then relay that information back to the loaders / crew.
This seems to me to add another layer of complexity and possibility for communication errors, whilst removing the current operational flexibilty afforded by having people who can do load planning in the morning followed by a dispatch shift in the afternoon - very useful to cover sickness etc..
BA's apparent rational behind this is that 'Other airlines do it that way', however, other airlines also have their cabin crew clean the aircraft on a 25minute turn round and sell you sandwiches once you have fought for the good seats, so I'm not sure how much that is relevant...
I will concede that advances in IT technology will inevitably make load control easier, but I'm not sure that removing the dispatchers license entirely is a good thing in the long run. It will be interesting to see how the Flight Crews react to this proposed change.
Nothing has been set in stone yet, but it would appear that by the time we move into T5, the dispatch role will have been split into Turn Round Manager and Centralised Load Control. TRM is dispatch-ish, but without load control licensing, CLC is as the name suggests.
I'm not sure what benefits this is supposed to bring to BA, as it would seem that now if a pallet doesn't turn up on stand I will no longer be able to retrim the aircraft and issue a new loadsheet, rather, I will have to phone a load controller in an office somewhere, relay the information, allow him to make a decision and then relay that information back to the loaders / crew.
This seems to me to add another layer of complexity and possibility for communication errors, whilst removing the current operational flexibilty afforded by having people who can do load planning in the morning followed by a dispatch shift in the afternoon - very useful to cover sickness etc..
BA's apparent rational behind this is that 'Other airlines do it that way', however, other airlines also have their cabin crew clean the aircraft on a 25minute turn round and sell you sandwiches once you have fought for the good seats, so I'm not sure how much that is relevant...
I will concede that advances in IT technology will inevitably make load control easier, but I'm not sure that removing the dispatchers license entirely is a good thing in the long run. It will be interesting to see how the Flight Crews react to this proposed change.
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Originally Posted by ANOTHER ton?
BA's apparent rational behind this is that 'Other airlines do it that way'....
.... It will be interesting to see how the Flight Crews react to this proposed change.
.... It will be interesting to see how the Flight Crews react to this proposed change.
Don't think you'll find many Flight Crew with any particular views one way or another. As always, a helpful dispatcher is a useful member of the team getting the aircraft away, but that is not to say the role could not be fulfilled by a TRC just as well.
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The bottom line is cost and the drive to reduce the grade, thus the overall unit cost and returns are better. At LHR many of the dispatchers are earning £40,000 plus as to are some of the ramp workers, which BA management are not happy about, in fact BA are unhappy about the higher than average pay scales of many of the functions. Things will have to change.
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Another Ton
What you say, is what i have heard. I must admit i am not suprised i sensed it may be coming but i always suspected that the staff would fight it off.
It is true that many other airlines do use CLC, notably one of your main competitors in T3, However i do not like the fact and i certainly do not think it improves flexibility at the aircraft to have non load control trained staff or should i say people who have the authority to retrim aircraft.
When i was a load controller / Dispatcher i would quite often instruct the ramp to freeload cargo or baggage etc within certain specifications eg DGR etc, this often speeded up the turnaround keeping the airline happy.
An example of how not having a LC trained person at the aircraft slowing things down through redtape was told to me by a neighbour of mine who works as a Team leader in T3, A flight was trimmed with 20 empty ulds and the TCO said they had to be loaded as per trim, as everyone with half a brain would know this is a slow process, the offshoot was the Flight got delayed and the TCO blamed the handling agent for slow loading, basically because the TCO couldn't or wouldn't use common sense.
When or if CLC comes to BA beware, if they start with CLC locally how long before it moves to India ?
What you say, is what i have heard. I must admit i am not suprised i sensed it may be coming but i always suspected that the staff would fight it off.
It is true that many other airlines do use CLC, notably one of your main competitors in T3, However i do not like the fact and i certainly do not think it improves flexibility at the aircraft to have non load control trained staff or should i say people who have the authority to retrim aircraft.
When i was a load controller / Dispatcher i would quite often instruct the ramp to freeload cargo or baggage etc within certain specifications eg DGR etc, this often speeded up the turnaround keeping the airline happy.
An example of how not having a LC trained person at the aircraft slowing things down through redtape was told to me by a neighbour of mine who works as a Team leader in T3, A flight was trimmed with 20 empty ulds and the TCO said they had to be loaded as per trim, as everyone with half a brain would know this is a slow process, the offshoot was the Flight got delayed and the TCO blamed the handling agent for slow loading, basically because the TCO couldn't or wouldn't use common sense.
When or if CLC comes to BA beware, if they start with CLC locally how long before it moves to India ?
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TopBunk,
I am not for a moment suggesting the TRC's are not every bit as professional and as capable as Dispatchers at turn round management, but please note that they only carry out half the functions of a load control licensed Dispatcher, and therefore have to be supported by external load control. As a company, BA is trying to 'reduce complexity and focus on the core business', so, again, I'm not sure how two departments are better than one in that respect.
The four crews I spoke to today about this proposal were of the opinion that this was indeed a backwards step, although admittedly I don't think they'll go on strike over the issue...
HZ123,
The current pay scale for Dispatcher is A6. The proposal currently on the table is that the Turn Round Manager grade will be APPG (two grades higher than A6) and the Centralised Load Controller's will be A5. The CLC grade will, however, have pay protection for ex-dispatchers, so they'll continue to receive the same renumeration.
Eventually, the increase for TRM and decrease for CLC will balance out, but only after all the pay protected staff have left.
To set up a seperate Load Control centre will require five new shift managers (Approx £200k p.a), additional rent for another office at LHR (Approx don't-know-but-it's-got-to-be-in-the-tens-of-thousands p.a) and extra delay cost as time is lost communicating between two different departments. To reiterate, I cannot see how two departments are cheaper / more efficient / less complex than one.
The remark about Dispatchers earning £40,000 is not entirely accurate, I can name people on my shift who are on half of that. Some dispatchers do earn good money, but they practically live at work - 17 hour shifts are not unusual.
I am not for a moment suggesting the TRC's are not every bit as professional and as capable as Dispatchers at turn round management, but please note that they only carry out half the functions of a load control licensed Dispatcher, and therefore have to be supported by external load control. As a company, BA is trying to 'reduce complexity and focus on the core business', so, again, I'm not sure how two departments are better than one in that respect.
The four crews I spoke to today about this proposal were of the opinion that this was indeed a backwards step, although admittedly I don't think they'll go on strike over the issue...
HZ123,
The current pay scale for Dispatcher is A6. The proposal currently on the table is that the Turn Round Manager grade will be APPG (two grades higher than A6) and the Centralised Load Controller's will be A5. The CLC grade will, however, have pay protection for ex-dispatchers, so they'll continue to receive the same renumeration.
Eventually, the increase for TRM and decrease for CLC will balance out, but only after all the pay protected staff have left.
To set up a seperate Load Control centre will require five new shift managers (Approx £200k p.a), additional rent for another office at LHR (Approx don't-know-but-it's-got-to-be-in-the-tens-of-thousands p.a) and extra delay cost as time is lost communicating between two different departments. To reiterate, I cannot see how two departments are cheaper / more efficient / less complex than one.
The remark about Dispatchers earning £40,000 is not entirely accurate, I can name people on my shift who are on half of that. Some dispatchers do earn good money, but they practically live at work - 17 hour shifts are not unusual.
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Originally Posted by ANOTHER ton?
The four crews I spoke to today about this proposal were of the opinion that this was indeed a backwards step, although admittedly I don't think they'll go on strike over the issue...
As for saying that the TRC grade would be higher - how come - same job but with less responsibility - would suggest that the job be regraded downwards, not upwards.
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Another Ton
Wow ; that sounds quite good if the TRC are going to be upgraded, i as a ex - loadcontrol licensed dispatcher dissaprove of not having a load control trained dispatcher at the aircraft for the reasons i cite in my earlier post, however to earn more money for less responsibility sounds quite good ! If what you say is true then why are so many dispatchers unhappy with the proposal ? If that is the road the company want to go down and you are not out of pocket, i would say so be it ! Let them live or die by the decisions they make, however as regard to offices for a CLC, they say rental is cheap in Mumbai or Bangalore ( the new Ba Route ???? ) that is what i would be concerned about , as we know Ba have taken that route with other depatments, and Virgin & SAS are 2 companies that i know of who operate Load Control from far eastern offices !!!
Wow ; that sounds quite good if the TRC are going to be upgraded, i as a ex - loadcontrol licensed dispatcher dissaprove of not having a load control trained dispatcher at the aircraft for the reasons i cite in my earlier post, however to earn more money for less responsibility sounds quite good ! If what you say is true then why are so many dispatchers unhappy with the proposal ? If that is the road the company want to go down and you are not out of pocket, i would say so be it ! Let them live or die by the decisions they make, however as regard to offices for a CLC, they say rental is cheap in Mumbai or Bangalore ( the new Ba Route ???? ) that is what i would be concerned about , as we know Ba have taken that route with other depatments, and Virgin & SAS are 2 companies that i know of who operate Load Control from far eastern offices !!!
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TopBunk,
My statement about the pilots response was made very much tongue in cheek...(think pensions) - of course they won't 'do' anything about it - they seem to regard it as a backwards step, but I agree with you that it won't make a huge amount of difference to their operations. They will still see the same loadsheet and the aircraft will still be trimmed legally and efficiently, the only difference may be minor delays incurred by the extra people that would have to be involved in trim / load changes.
I have no argument with the fact that TRC's do work, but I will say again, I cannot see how making things more complicated and expensive is a good thing. B707's with flight engineers worked, but these days that solution is considered too complicated and expensive...the piecemeal approach to aircraft systems management was replaced by an integrated solution (i.e EICAS / EFIS) and 25 years ago the piecemeal Load Control / TRC role was integrated into Dispatchers. We are going backwards..
In answer to your pay grade query, I don't know. I am not management and I'm not sure how they work these things out, but to quote verbatim from the 'Turnround Manager and Centralised Load Control Q & A pack Issue 1, Feb 20 2006' (In reference to TRM): "The grade for the job is APPG" (In reference to CLC): "If a current Dispatcher on an A6 grade is working in CLC their A6 pay will be protected" To clarify, APPG is two grades higher than A6.
My statement about the pilots response was made very much tongue in cheek...(think pensions) - of course they won't 'do' anything about it - they seem to regard it as a backwards step, but I agree with you that it won't make a huge amount of difference to their operations. They will still see the same loadsheet and the aircraft will still be trimmed legally and efficiently, the only difference may be minor delays incurred by the extra people that would have to be involved in trim / load changes.
I have no argument with the fact that TRC's do work, but I will say again, I cannot see how making things more complicated and expensive is a good thing. B707's with flight engineers worked, but these days that solution is considered too complicated and expensive...the piecemeal approach to aircraft systems management was replaced by an integrated solution (i.e EICAS / EFIS) and 25 years ago the piecemeal Load Control / TRC role was integrated into Dispatchers. We are going backwards..
In answer to your pay grade query, I don't know. I am not management and I'm not sure how they work these things out, but to quote verbatim from the 'Turnround Manager and Centralised Load Control Q & A pack Issue 1, Feb 20 2006' (In reference to TRM): "The grade for the job is APPG" (In reference to CLC): "If a current Dispatcher on an A6 grade is working in CLC their A6 pay will be protected" To clarify, APPG is two grades higher than A6.