Servisair to loose Air Wales handling at CWL
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Anyone else want to claim to have come from a handling agent, spent £40,000+ to get their ATPL and then joined air wales............as a captain??? How do you afford it on a handling agents wage???
Speedbird I know of at least 3 ex Handling Agent/Airline Ground staff who have made it through to a flying career.
they never had flash cars, didn't go on the lash very often, didn't wear designer clothes, and spent every penny they could on flying. I think all of them became part time flying instructors to bridge the gap from PPL to CPL.
If you want it enough you will make the sacrifice and get there.
they never had flash cars, didn't go on the lash very often, didn't wear designer clothes, and spent every penny they could on flying. I think all of them became part time flying instructors to bridge the gap from PPL to CPL.
If you want it enough you will make the sacrifice and get there.
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I'm a bit concerned and angry with the comments that have been been put forward in this thread, i guess according to some i'm a mindless chimpanzee, enjoy being disrespectful to captains and worksat a very average station.
I know it may have been tongue-in-cheek but its a bit out of place don't you think.
Some of the comments about the airlines have been below the belt and on the whole show immaturity on both sides. I have come through the new Servisair training program which is very good and is a vast improvement on the old system. It now takes 3 1/2 weeks instead of 1.
I also juggle my job with being a full time student and scraping enough money together every so often to go flying, yip I can put on 4 gold bars if I want and pretend to be a captain. I guess we all have the same number of braincells then.
Hope I dont get posted to Cardiff to help out I always thought the Welsh were friendly people.
I know it may have been tongue-in-cheek but its a bit out of place don't you think.
Some of the comments about the airlines have been below the belt and on the whole show immaturity on both sides. I have come through the new Servisair training program which is very good and is a vast improvement on the old system. It now takes 3 1/2 weeks instead of 1.
I also juggle my job with being a full time student and scraping enough money together every so often to go flying, yip I can put on 4 gold bars if I want and pretend to be a captain. I guess we all have the same number of braincells then.
Hope I dont get posted to Cardiff to help out I always thought the Welsh were friendly people.
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Taffair - Obviously man with absaloutly no knowledge of ground handling what so ever. Don't flatter yourself there are alot of pilots with 4 bars at CWL, most with only 3 bars have bigger pay checks. Yes we do call you sir, as you should also addess your dispatcher sir, it's called manners, something you apparently lack.
I can also assure you that there are servisair staff better educated than you who will go onto much better things than flying for a Airwales.
I appologise if by saying this I offend any other Airwales staff who on the whole are proffesional, friendly and a pleasure to work with - these are the staff who get the most from there handling agents. I know Taffair doesn't speak for the staff I have talked with.
As for Servisair CWL - they may not me the best however, they are one of the best MYT and BY stations in the country - FACT.
Airwales however are difficult to handle, with limited budget and rescources.
Just to put the contract into perspective, during the summer season Britannia alone carry more passengers in a day than Airwales do in a week.
The contract was won fair and square by Aviance, the final bids where identical, but the grass is always greener on the other side. Best of luck to Aviance with their new contract, they can look forward to being treated like scum from arrogant idiots like Taffair. If they can handle AWW better then hats of to them, lets wait and give them a chance.
The loss probably will affect Servisair this winter, but for now will free them up to deal with their trusted and more profitable customers for the summer.
Airway handling (part of servisair) will still handle the baggage and airport busses and ICS (part of the same group will still do the cleaning) so don't expect any improvment on those fronts.
Sevisair staff - chins up, swallow your pride and let this one go gracefully. Airwales managment were satisfied with the service right to the end. Lets now concentrate on the bigger fish.
I can also assure you that there are servisair staff better educated than you who will go onto much better things than flying for a Airwales.
I appologise if by saying this I offend any other Airwales staff who on the whole are proffesional, friendly and a pleasure to work with - these are the staff who get the most from there handling agents. I know Taffair doesn't speak for the staff I have talked with.
As for Servisair CWL - they may not me the best however, they are one of the best MYT and BY stations in the country - FACT.
Airwales however are difficult to handle, with limited budget and rescources.
Just to put the contract into perspective, during the summer season Britannia alone carry more passengers in a day than Airwales do in a week.
The contract was won fair and square by Aviance, the final bids where identical, but the grass is always greener on the other side. Best of luck to Aviance with their new contract, they can look forward to being treated like scum from arrogant idiots like Taffair. If they can handle AWW better then hats of to them, lets wait and give them a chance.
The loss probably will affect Servisair this winter, but for now will free them up to deal with their trusted and more profitable customers for the summer.
Airway handling (part of servisair) will still handle the baggage and airport busses and ICS (part of the same group will still do the cleaning) so don't expect any improvment on those fronts.
Sevisair staff - chins up, swallow your pride and let this one go gracefully. Airwales managment were satisfied with the service right to the end. Lets now concentrate on the bigger fish.
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Awyrennwr,
Totally agree with you 100%. This has got well out of control and really needs to be chilled. Everyone is just winding each other up and it is getting well too abusive towards each other, and different companies. Everyone is picking up on each others bad points, and not the good.
Lets just please stop the bitchyness and all get along and only post sensible posts, you never know, we may have to work with each other one day and might be best mates!!!!
Air Wales has come along way in the past year, lets hope it continues
Totally agree with you 100%. This has got well out of control and really needs to be chilled. Everyone is just winding each other up and it is getting well too abusive towards each other, and different companies. Everyone is picking up on each others bad points, and not the good.
Lets just please stop the bitchyness and all get along and only post sensible posts, you never know, we may have to work with each other one day and might be best mates!!!!
Air Wales has come along way in the past year, lets hope it continues
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Its irrelevant if you work for Servisair, Aviance, Groundstar etc.
All these companies all try to do everything on the cheap, because of this the customer airlines get a poor service and the staff are treated like dirt for little or no thanks and poor wages.
The only way airlines will get a quality service is for them pay a reasonable amount for handling ensuring the handling agent has
modern reliable equipment and more motivated, well trained, reasonably paid staff who will want to give a good service.
The advantages are that the staff retention problem will become a thing of the past thus eventually saving the handling agent money, there will be less sickness again saving them money and the airlines will benefit by having fewer delays, fewer accidents, all of which will save them money!
The only way this will ever happen is by getting rid of the dinosaurs who presently manage these handling companies and employ managers who can see the overall picture and can motivate staff rather than spending their days looking for ways to undermine staff at every opportunity.
All these companies all try to do everything on the cheap, because of this the customer airlines get a poor service and the staff are treated like dirt for little or no thanks and poor wages.
The only way airlines will get a quality service is for them pay a reasonable amount for handling ensuring the handling agent has
modern reliable equipment and more motivated, well trained, reasonably paid staff who will want to give a good service.
The advantages are that the staff retention problem will become a thing of the past thus eventually saving the handling agent money, there will be less sickness again saving them money and the airlines will benefit by having fewer delays, fewer accidents, all of which will save them money!
The only way this will ever happen is by getting rid of the dinosaurs who presently manage these handling companies and employ managers who can see the overall picture and can motivate staff rather than spending their days looking for ways to undermine staff at every opportunity.
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Rollerskate,
If it were that easy then why do the flightcrew moan so much about the terrible poverty they are kept in, when even the worst paid amongst them gets double your average dispatcher's pay?
Looking forward to the day I can experience the hardship too.
If it were that easy then why do the flightcrew moan so much about the terrible poverty they are kept in, when even the worst paid amongst them gets double your average dispatcher's pay?
Looking forward to the day I can experience the hardship too.
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I believe that airlines are as much to blame for the general quality of service that they receive as the handling agent is.
When the main criteria for awarding contracts is the cheapest quote then what else can you expect. For a handling agent to reduce their charges they have to cut back somewhere, less equipment, older vehicles, less staff and lower paid staff.
Handling agents were foolish to cut their margins to the bone to win contracts when the airlines could afford to pay higher fees, now airlines are tightening the old belts a bit and the handling agents are being squeezed to breaking point.
On a different note ( i know it's a little off track)
Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be a 'little aircraft syndrome' amongst some pilots. By this i mean that on the whole the smaller the aircraft is the more highly strung the captain is.
I know plently of pilots who prove this wrong on an individual basis, but i am sure that most dispatchers will know what i mean.
When the main criteria for awarding contracts is the cheapest quote then what else can you expect. For a handling agent to reduce their charges they have to cut back somewhere, less equipment, older vehicles, less staff and lower paid staff.
Handling agents were foolish to cut their margins to the bone to win contracts when the airlines could afford to pay higher fees, now airlines are tightening the old belts a bit and the handling agents are being squeezed to breaking point.
On a different note ( i know it's a little off track)
Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be a 'little aircraft syndrome' amongst some pilots. By this i mean that on the whole the smaller the aircraft is the more highly strung the captain is.
I know plently of pilots who prove this wrong on an individual basis, but i am sure that most dispatchers will know what i mean.
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Thease threads about airline contracts changing companies always seem to get a bit samey and always end up in a slanging match either between misplaced loyaties between H/A staff or airlines and the agents, Time to stop it!!
As people pointed out earlier its not about service its about ££££ and one companies ability to under cut another, if its not that its about who plays golf with who, who's got the masons handshake who whos got the national tie up deal. for example some one mentioned Aviance getting Bmi baby. Aviance will get any Bmi contract un contested until 2004 as it was part of the the agreement with the BMHS sell off. - then no doubt someone will under cut them, how does that company pay for that drop in price - staff, training, equipment etc.....
All the H/A's are in each others pocket, be it sevisair who are part of airfrance, who own a chunk of menzies and therefore globeground. Swissport who have just bought Groundstar and Aviance who have plane handling, BMHS, reed, MAS etc....
No doubt the debate will go on.
All you people who care at ground level dont give up!
But as Nibor said earlier the savings which are being passed on to handling agents are being forced upon the handling agents by the AIRLINES.... Its a horrible viscious circle!!!
WTD
As people pointed out earlier its not about service its about ££££ and one companies ability to under cut another, if its not that its about who plays golf with who, who's got the masons handshake who whos got the national tie up deal. for example some one mentioned Aviance getting Bmi baby. Aviance will get any Bmi contract un contested until 2004 as it was part of the the agreement with the BMHS sell off. - then no doubt someone will under cut them, how does that company pay for that drop in price - staff, training, equipment etc.....
All the H/A's are in each others pocket, be it sevisair who are part of airfrance, who own a chunk of menzies and therefore globeground. Swissport who have just bought Groundstar and Aviance who have plane handling, BMHS, reed, MAS etc....
No doubt the debate will go on.
All you people who care at ground level dont give up!
But as Nibor said earlier the savings which are being passed on to handling agents are being forced upon the handling agents by the AIRLINES.... Its a horrible viscious circle!!!
WTD
When I started off in aviation I worked on c-in and then Ops for a large airline that looked after itself (not BA). All the staff identified with the product, and more importantly if there were complaints sent to the airline it had to accept responsibility in its reply. Then money was made avavilable to cure the problem.
Since working for, and dealing with, Handling Agents it is clear that if a passenger complains the airline simply agrees with the passenger and brushes the blame down to the Handling Agent. If the Handling Agent tries to request more money to fix the problem they are told 'you quoted at X price to provide the service, so no more money available'.
An airline that uses a Handling Agent doesn't have the same ownership of the handling costs that an airline providing its own handling does.
Since working for, and dealing with, Handling Agents it is clear that if a passenger complains the airline simply agrees with the passenger and brushes the blame down to the Handling Agent. If the Handling Agent tries to request more money to fix the problem they are told 'you quoted at X price to provide the service, so no more money available'.
An airline that uses a Handling Agent doesn't have the same ownership of the handling costs that an airline providing its own handling does.
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I have enjoyed PPRuNe for many years, but have not felt it necessary to register and comment upon a thread until reading this one.
The decision to change from Servisair to Aviance was made on purely commercial grounds (we do after all live in a commercial world and the industry is a very competitive one).
Some of the comments that have been made are a little personal to say the least and some of those from (what appear to be) Servisair staff are not what I would like to see as a major customer. We do after all operate more flights than anyone else from CWL.
I therefore ask that AWW staff refrain from further comments and I'm sure that Servisair management would ask the same of their people.
To Servisair, thank you for your efforts. To Aviance, I'm sure we can look forward to a mutually succesful summer.
Now.......someone mentioned the pub, what a splendid idea!!!!
The decision to change from Servisair to Aviance was made on purely commercial grounds (we do after all live in a commercial world and the industry is a very competitive one).
Some of the comments that have been made are a little personal to say the least and some of those from (what appear to be) Servisair staff are not what I would like to see as a major customer. We do after all operate more flights than anyone else from CWL.
I therefore ask that AWW staff refrain from further comments and I'm sure that Servisair management would ask the same of their people.
To Servisair, thank you for your efforts. To Aviance, I'm sure we can look forward to a mutually succesful summer.
Now.......someone mentioned the pub, what a splendid idea!!!!
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All the H/A's are in each others pocket, be it sevisair who are part of airfrance, who own a chunk of menzies and therefore globeground. Swissport who have just bought Groundstar and Aviance who have plane handling, BMHS, reed, MAS etc....
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Servisair / Globeground now operate as a single company owned by Penauille Poly Services, which has never been part of Air France Groupe. Servisair have always rightly claimed they are Independent, i.e. not owned by an airline, airport or indeed have themselves ownership full or part in any airline or airport.
All the H/A's are in each others pocket, be it sevisair who are part of airfrance, who own a chunk of menzies and therefore globeground. Swissport who have just bought Groundstar and Aviance who have plane handling, BMHS, reed, MAS etc....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Servisair / Globeground now operate as a single company owned by Penauille Poly Services, which has never been part of Air France Groupe. Servisair have always rightly claimed they are Independent, i.e. not owned by an airline, airport or indeed have themselves ownership full or part in any airline or airport.
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Gobfa.
I try to make my posts as clear as possible without going into too much detail. I could be wrong yes I acknowledge that PPS own Servisair but AF (which incidentally i never said owned servisair)do have an interest in the handling agent it comes under the guise of AFSL.
I'm sure these agents like to sell themselves as working "independently" from each other but I assure that in airports where for example globe and servisair exist they would be working to the same agenda, not to undercut each other but to jointly win business from other airlines/handling agents.
Another point is that if you look on their respective websites it shows they have a larger global network ie that in airports where servisair did not operate but globe do it all falls under one umbrella.
Same with Aviance and planehandling and soon swissport and groundstar!
WTD
I try to make my posts as clear as possible without going into too much detail. I could be wrong yes I acknowledge that PPS own Servisair but AF (which incidentally i never said owned servisair)do have an interest in the handling agent it comes under the guise of AFSL.
I'm sure these agents like to sell themselves as working "independently" from each other but I assure that in airports where for example globe and servisair exist they would be working to the same agenda, not to undercut each other but to jointly win business from other airlines/handling agents.
Another point is that if you look on their respective websites it shows they have a larger global network ie that in airports where servisair did not operate but globe do it all falls under one umbrella.
Same with Aviance and planehandling and soon swissport and groundstar!
WTD
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The only scenario when handling agents bid for airline handling agents is who can give a c**p service at the lowest price.
Airlines get exactly what they pay for, unmotivated staff on close to the minimum wage who operate old unreliable equipment - and they wonder why their flights are delayed?
Only when the accountants of the the airlines and handling agents learn that investing in the infastructure and staff they may actually save money.
The saying "pay peanuts and get monkeys" is spot on.
When I worked for a handling agent many years ago it was always the few dedicated staff who carried the monkeys and I believe it's still the case today.
When bidding for a contract use the quality of service and how
money will eventually be saved in the negotiations,pay the staff a decent wage enabling handling agents to attract the right calibre of staff and get rid of the monkeys.
Obviously this will never happen,the handling agents will continue to be managed by d**kheads, airlines will get a bad service,staff will get more fed up and leave in droves.
Airlines get exactly what they pay for, unmotivated staff on close to the minimum wage who operate old unreliable equipment - and they wonder why their flights are delayed?
Only when the accountants of the the airlines and handling agents learn that investing in the infastructure and staff they may actually save money.
The saying "pay peanuts and get monkeys" is spot on.
When I worked for a handling agent many years ago it was always the few dedicated staff who carried the monkeys and I believe it's still the case today.
When bidding for a contract use the quality of service and how
money will eventually be saved in the negotiations,pay the staff a decent wage enabling handling agents to attract the right calibre of staff and get rid of the monkeys.
Obviously this will never happen,the handling agents will continue to be managed by d**kheads, airlines will get a bad service,staff will get more fed up and leave in droves.
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Whosthedaddy said
"I try to make my posts as clear as possible without going into too much detail. I could be wrong yes I acknowledge that PPS own Servisair but AF (which incidentally i never said owned servisair)do have an interest in the handling agent it comes under the guise of AFSL."
AFSL (Air france Servisair Limited) was split last year and the name changed, Servisair/GlobeGround (as it is now known) have no connection with it anymore.
"Another point is that if you look on their respective websites it shows they have a larger global network ie that in airports where servisair did not operate but globe do it all falls under one umbrella."
Servisar is owned by Penauille Services who purchased GlobeGround in 2001, creating Servisair/GlobeGround
"I try to make my posts as clear as possible without going into too much detail. I could be wrong yes I acknowledge that PPS own Servisair but AF (which incidentally i never said owned servisair)do have an interest in the handling agent it comes under the guise of AFSL."
AFSL (Air france Servisair Limited) was split last year and the name changed, Servisair/GlobeGround (as it is now known) have no connection with it anymore.
"Another point is that if you look on their respective websites it shows they have a larger global network ie that in airports where servisair did not operate but globe do it all falls under one umbrella."
Servisar is owned by Penauille Services who purchased GlobeGround in 2001, creating Servisair/GlobeGround
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Oh god here we go, i'll have to spell it out...
as i said earlier.....
quote
I could be wrong yes I acknowledge that PPS own Servisair but AF (which incidentally i never said owned servisair)do have an interest in the handling agent it comes under the guise of AFSL.
1-PPS - Standing for: Penauille poly Services
2-AF not owning Servisair
3-Servisair DID have an interest in AFSL - at the beginning of my quote i did say "i may be wrong"
So as i stated i know that PPS bought a 51% stake in GG - GLOBEGROUND to create servisair / globeground.
*The point that I was trying to make*
There is alot of politics in that area of the industry, its not about service its about £££££/tie ins - Whether its AirWales or a larger carrier - examples of such politics are abundant especially in airports withtwo or more agents. There is no point at people sniping at each other and which company is better, you never know you may end up working for the competition one day - I bet the people at Groundstar didnt expect to be bought by Swissport.
Airlines enforce savings upon handling agents these savings are at the cost of service. How many false promises are there on the SLA's (sorry- Service level agreements) when the agents themselves are completely under-equipped for it
*Well at least some people got it!*
So after seriously straying from the Air Wales topic I'm now staying out of this one!
Thanks
WTD
as i said earlier.....
quote
I could be wrong yes I acknowledge that PPS own Servisair but AF (which incidentally i never said owned servisair)do have an interest in the handling agent it comes under the guise of AFSL.
1-PPS - Standing for: Penauille poly Services
2-AF not owning Servisair
3-Servisair DID have an interest in AFSL - at the beginning of my quote i did say "i may be wrong"
So as i stated i know that PPS bought a 51% stake in GG - GLOBEGROUND to create servisair / globeground.
*The point that I was trying to make*
There is alot of politics in that area of the industry, its not about service its about £££££/tie ins - Whether its AirWales or a larger carrier - examples of such politics are abundant especially in airports withtwo or more agents. There is no point at people sniping at each other and which company is better, you never know you may end up working for the competition one day - I bet the people at Groundstar didnt expect to be bought by Swissport.
Airlines enforce savings upon handling agents these savings are at the cost of service. How many false promises are there on the SLA's (sorry- Service level agreements) when the agents themselves are completely under-equipped for it
*Well at least some people got it!*
So after seriously straying from the Air Wales topic I'm now staying out of this one!
Thanks
WTD