Part 66 feasibility
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Part 66 feasibility
Hi all
Long time lurker, first time poster so please go easy on me!
I'm mid-30's, financially stable, PPL holder. I own my own business and as such can be flexible on my working hours. I am hoping, come Spring, to set one day each week aside to do some kind of 'self improvement'. Having a strong interest in all things engineering, studying to get a part 66 licence jumped out at me as something I would like to do.
I have an engineering background including an electronic engineering apprenticeship from a regonised, although unrelated, employer. I am therefore hoping I can qualify as a 'skilled worker' and cut down the experience requirements somewhat. I have plenty of automotive-based mechanical experience to the level that I can confidently strip a car to it's component parts and rebuild. If I went down the mechanical (as opposed to avionics) route I would be specifically interested in small aircraft of the type I am likely to fly as a PPL, however I also have a fair knowledge of electronics and so the thought of specialising in avionics also seems appealing.
I don't want to spend huge amounts of money on this, if I did I would probably look at a CPL I guess, maybe an FI rating, but reasonable expenses are fine. I also reiterate what I said above about having a business so I can't just take time off to do a full time course.
I have done a fair bit of reading on the subject and it looks like I could self study the modules required for a B2 and/or B3 license. However, a couple of things I have not been able to determine:
1. Can the X years experience be gained part time? If so, does the time period stay the same or is it a case of 'x years at 5 days per week', aka if I'm only doing 1 day per week the time period would be five times as long?
2. Is it realistic to expect that if I walked in to a maintenance company and asked for 1 day per week unpaid work towards a license they would be willing to help me? Is this the sort of thing they are asked for regularly, a bit like CPL pilots pretty much work for free for flying schools to build hours?
3. The modules for B2 and B3 are almost the same (1-10 for both then either 2 or 3 more depending on which licence). Assuming I was to pass all the relevant modules, could I apply for both licenses using the same practical experience years (I know that B3 requires less years) or must they run concurrently?
...and finally:
4. Is this whole idea realistic or am I kidding myself to think I could achieve a license this way?
Thanks!
Long time lurker, first time poster so please go easy on me!
I'm mid-30's, financially stable, PPL holder. I own my own business and as such can be flexible on my working hours. I am hoping, come Spring, to set one day each week aside to do some kind of 'self improvement'. Having a strong interest in all things engineering, studying to get a part 66 licence jumped out at me as something I would like to do.
I have an engineering background including an electronic engineering apprenticeship from a regonised, although unrelated, employer. I am therefore hoping I can qualify as a 'skilled worker' and cut down the experience requirements somewhat. I have plenty of automotive-based mechanical experience to the level that I can confidently strip a car to it's component parts and rebuild. If I went down the mechanical (as opposed to avionics) route I would be specifically interested in small aircraft of the type I am likely to fly as a PPL, however I also have a fair knowledge of electronics and so the thought of specialising in avionics also seems appealing.
I don't want to spend huge amounts of money on this, if I did I would probably look at a CPL I guess, maybe an FI rating, but reasonable expenses are fine. I also reiterate what I said above about having a business so I can't just take time off to do a full time course.
I have done a fair bit of reading on the subject and it looks like I could self study the modules required for a B2 and/or B3 license. However, a couple of things I have not been able to determine:
1. Can the X years experience be gained part time? If so, does the time period stay the same or is it a case of 'x years at 5 days per week', aka if I'm only doing 1 day per week the time period would be five times as long?
2. Is it realistic to expect that if I walked in to a maintenance company and asked for 1 day per week unpaid work towards a license they would be willing to help me? Is this the sort of thing they are asked for regularly, a bit like CPL pilots pretty much work for free for flying schools to build hours?
3. The modules for B2 and B3 are almost the same (1-10 for both then either 2 or 3 more depending on which licence). Assuming I was to pass all the relevant modules, could I apply for both licenses using the same practical experience years (I know that B3 requires less years) or must they run concurrently?
...and finally:
4. Is this whole idea realistic or am I kidding myself to think I could achieve a license this way?
Thanks!
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Welcome to the forum.
Being in your position, having not done any aviation maintenance experience previously, there's only one path to gaining a Part 66 license and that's through doing an apprenticeship to gain a trade certificate then complete the diploma for a license without type (if you only want to work on GA aircraft, a type rating "might" not be necessary).
Aviation being a highly specialised industry, you may get some credit for what you've completed already, however I've seen guys who'd done a full RMIT Bachelor of Aeronautical Engineering have to do the full apprenticeship as the emphasis is on the handskills over the theoretical knowledge.
To do the modules would require you to either complete a full time apprenticeship with an AMO or to study the modules yourself at your own expense. Seeing as you already hold a higher qualification than a Cert IV, this would mean paying full fee which, depending on the organisation, can be up to $15,000 a year for full time study. I can't say what the costs to study online are, but I'd assume they'd be in the vicinity of $1000 per subject. To complete a mechanical Cert IV is about 24 subjects, avionics is 30 subjects (the B1-10 modules are often broken down into sub-modules, so it's not just 12 or 13 subjects .
If you complete the modules on your own, you'll still need to complete a journal of industry experience and have it assessed by an approved maintenance training organisation. This would require you to work in an AMO and fill out the journal in the range of tasks required for your trade and have all entries certified by the certifying LAME. Once all modules are complete and your journal is completed and assessed, you'll be issued with a Cert IV in Aeroskills in your chosen trade. That makes you an AME and typically takes around 3-4 years of full time contact, either work or study.
A few extra subjects and a few extra competencies in your journal will net you a Part 66 license, either B1 or B2 (there's no such thing as a B3 license). B1 is broken into four subcategories. With what you're talking about, you'd be looking at going for a B1.3 license (if going mechanical path), which is fixed wing, piston powered aircraft. If you've just completed an apprenticeship of 4 years, that will equal the experience requirements for a Cat B1.3 license easily. However, the entries need to demonstrate that you've been working regularly in the industry for 3-4 years, not just a 'one day a week' kind of thing.
Once you hold one license, you can RPL that knowledge to greatly reduce the workload to gain another category. However, once again, it's the practical experience that counts. The only way to log enough time to gain both close together would be to run parallel journals, one mechanical the other avionics, as the tasks are very different and hence the competencies are different codes, so you can't log B1 experience by doing B2 tasks and vice versa. Having filled out a full avionics journal and recently been granted my B2, I can say that that logging parallel journals sounds like insanity to me!
The licensing system is also such that there are currency requirements, meaning you are required to exercise your certifying privileges a minimum number of times over a certain period of time to retain your certifying privileges. Ultimately, the system is designed so that, to retain certifying privileges, one has to be working in the industry.
My suggestion would be to start out self studying the modules online through such companies as Aviation Australia or perhaps ATAE and see if you enjoy it. If you do, you may consider making the jump into the industry with a full-time apprenticeship. Without the logged experience, gaining a Cert IV, let alone a license, is impossible.
You mentioned that you've done a fair bit of reading, so I'm assuming that includes the Part 66 Manual of Standards. If you haven't read it yet, read that first.
Any further questions, ask away!
Cheers,
John
Being in your position, having not done any aviation maintenance experience previously, there's only one path to gaining a Part 66 license and that's through doing an apprenticeship to gain a trade certificate then complete the diploma for a license without type (if you only want to work on GA aircraft, a type rating "might" not be necessary).
Aviation being a highly specialised industry, you may get some credit for what you've completed already, however I've seen guys who'd done a full RMIT Bachelor of Aeronautical Engineering have to do the full apprenticeship as the emphasis is on the handskills over the theoretical knowledge.
To do the modules would require you to either complete a full time apprenticeship with an AMO or to study the modules yourself at your own expense. Seeing as you already hold a higher qualification than a Cert IV, this would mean paying full fee which, depending on the organisation, can be up to $15,000 a year for full time study. I can't say what the costs to study online are, but I'd assume they'd be in the vicinity of $1000 per subject. To complete a mechanical Cert IV is about 24 subjects, avionics is 30 subjects (the B1-10 modules are often broken down into sub-modules, so it's not just 12 or 13 subjects .
If you complete the modules on your own, you'll still need to complete a journal of industry experience and have it assessed by an approved maintenance training organisation. This would require you to work in an AMO and fill out the journal in the range of tasks required for your trade and have all entries certified by the certifying LAME. Once all modules are complete and your journal is completed and assessed, you'll be issued with a Cert IV in Aeroskills in your chosen trade. That makes you an AME and typically takes around 3-4 years of full time contact, either work or study.
A few extra subjects and a few extra competencies in your journal will net you a Part 66 license, either B1 or B2 (there's no such thing as a B3 license). B1 is broken into four subcategories. With what you're talking about, you'd be looking at going for a B1.3 license (if going mechanical path), which is fixed wing, piston powered aircraft. If you've just completed an apprenticeship of 4 years, that will equal the experience requirements for a Cat B1.3 license easily. However, the entries need to demonstrate that you've been working regularly in the industry for 3-4 years, not just a 'one day a week' kind of thing.
Once you hold one license, you can RPL that knowledge to greatly reduce the workload to gain another category. However, once again, it's the practical experience that counts. The only way to log enough time to gain both close together would be to run parallel journals, one mechanical the other avionics, as the tasks are very different and hence the competencies are different codes, so you can't log B1 experience by doing B2 tasks and vice versa. Having filled out a full avionics journal and recently been granted my B2, I can say that that logging parallel journals sounds like insanity to me!
The licensing system is also such that there are currency requirements, meaning you are required to exercise your certifying privileges a minimum number of times over a certain period of time to retain your certifying privileges. Ultimately, the system is designed so that, to retain certifying privileges, one has to be working in the industry.
My suggestion would be to start out self studying the modules online through such companies as Aviation Australia or perhaps ATAE and see if you enjoy it. If you do, you may consider making the jump into the industry with a full-time apprenticeship. Without the logged experience, gaining a Cert IV, let alone a license, is impossible.
You mentioned that you've done a fair bit of reading, so I'm assuming that includes the Part 66 Manual of Standards. If you haven't read it yet, read that first.
Any further questions, ask away!
Cheers,
John
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A good comprehensive answer emerg000, I think you capture how difficult this would be to complete on a part time ad hoc basis. However there are some slight differences between the CASA system that you describe and the EASA system. There is a B3 license emerging, specifically for light aircraft, this is in effect a B1/B2 light. The experience and knowledge requirements are lower and so may be attainable over a reasonable time scale part time.
Also for clarification the B1.3 license is for Turbine Helicopters under both systems.
The Engineer License Guidance Document published by the UK CAA is a good read for the basic info regarding experience etc. I suspect with your backround and qualifications BCW that you would be able to go down the skilled worker route and have your experience requirements reduced to 2 years.
Also for clarification the B1.3 license is for Turbine Helicopters under both systems.
The Engineer License Guidance Document published by the UK CAA is a good read for the basic info regarding experience etc. I suspect with your backround and qualifications BCW that you would be able to go down the skilled worker route and have your experience requirements reduced to 2 years.
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Ah, yes my mistake ukv1145. I always get B1.2 and 1.3 confused.
I've not heard of a B3 license category in the pipeline for CASA Part 66 but it would definitely make sense.
Cheers,
John
I've not heard of a B3 license category in the pipeline for CASA Part 66 but it would definitely make sense.
Cheers,
John
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Further useful information
Dear BCW
I would highly recommend that you read up on the source data.
Firstly, refer to EASA Part-66 which can be found in European Commission regulation 1321/2014 (google this and it will come up on EASA website). It used to be regulation 2042/2003 but this has just changed before Christmas.
You can download a consolidated version of Part-66 only which includes all acceptable means of compliance at Q.C.M. - New consolidated version of QCM-Part-66 & new amendment to consolidated version QCM-Part-147
Subpart A of the regulation clearly explains what training and experience requirements you need.
You can can take a Part-66 course over two years which costs around £7500 per year and which is full-time and which are delivered by Part-147 approved training organisations (the CAA UK website has an up-dated list of all Part-147 approved organisations in the UK which deliver basic part-66 training). The last time I looked at this list, before Christmas, there was about 11 training organisations in the UK which delivered basic part-66 training (not specialised training on a particular aircraft - called type training.)
Doing such a two year course will not guarantee a licence or a job since you still need to get experience. It will however reduce your experience requirements from 5 years to 2 years. My experience is such that some of those courses are not worth the money and the standards are not always the same in all schools. You have to do a lot of self-study whilst in the school and this is not worth £7500 a year. But not all training organisations are the same.
Another option is apprenticeships which last 4-5 years with an approved Part-145 organisations. There are, sadly, not a great deal of such apprenticeships at the moment in ration to the amount of young men and women who would like to enter this profession.
The third option is self-study. if you are disciplined and can study well, then you can buy the modules course packs from a reputable place. I recommend Flybe UK as they are a Part-147 approved organisations and I have found their materials very good. Go on their training website. They have great facilities in Exeter. You can order each module manuals for between £25 to £50 (some modules are very large). Once you have studied a module, you can take an exam with them or directly with the CAA in various locations in the UK. The exam costs around £45. So you are looking at between £70 to £100 per module. There are approximately 13 to 14 modules to do depending on B1 or B2 pathway. There are also some essay questions to take, and that's a little extra money-wise but a few bobs.
The full list of modules and all the topics to be covered in the modules can once again be found in commission regulation 1321/2014. Again, I recommend that you go directly to the source of the regulation and requirements which EASA. That way, you cannot get the wrong information.
Once you have done your training requirements and exams, which would set you back approximately £1500, the biggest challenge now becomes getting experience.
Yes, if you were a young apprentice, you could hope to get an apprenticeship with one of the airlines/maintenance organisations. But there are so few apprenticeships and so many young people trying to get onto one, it is heartbreaking to see the difficulties that young people have in trying to get onto this career path.
So I will briefly tell you my story as I was also in my mid-30s when my children were all teenagers and I decided that I wanted to stop being a housewife and a legal secretary/supermarket worker, and study aircraft engineering as I had wanted to do when I was a teenager.
So I took myself to college and to uni and graduated at 38 with a BSc in Aircraft Maintenance Engineering. Now, that didn't give me the hand-skills needed for a Part-66 license. However, whilst at uni, and whilst everyone would tell me that I could never get work experience at Manchester airport (where I live), I chose to ignore negative advice and go ahead and forge my own opinions and make my own contacts. I wound up working on the line and in the hangar at Manchester airport two summers in a row with Flybe Engineerings Ltd. Unfortunately, they are no longer at Manchester airport. I was able to start keeping a log book and get valuable hands-on experience.
Upon graduating uni last year, I tried again to work at the airport to complete enough hands-on experience for a license. Had Flybe still been there, they would have happily let me come to complete work experience as the engineers there knew that I could do a good job. Unfortunately for me, they were not. And other airlines or maintenance organisations can have a very closed door approach to those would-be engineers, so no luck for me there.
Also unfortunately for me, being a woman in my late 30s, I am just not appealing enough for such employers! Since you are a bloke, it may work in your favour. However, better fortune came my way as instead I got onto a graduate scheme with the MoD, which doesn't discriminate on age. And so four months after graduating, I found myself working with projects relating to Typhoons and A400M. I then managed to spend six months at Manchester airport in a major airline via an MoD placement scheme. I am now enjoying a good career in aircraft engineering.
I still would like to eventually acquire a Part-66 licence for my own satisfaction. And I am continuing to work on this and relying on the goodwill of good friends I have made in the business over the past few years. I still need three more years of experience as I have been a "self-study" student. I am quite confident that I'll manage to achieve this. It's just getting the contacts I think.
What I am trying to say, bcw, is don't be put off my people telling you it can't be done. Because this is not true. You make your own tomorrow. And it is very realistic for you to at least get your studies done part-time, and then start doing the practical, or do it both at the same time if possible.
I cannot stress enough the importance of actually getting hold of the original source materials, such as EASA regulation, and seeing exactly what is required rather than listen to people's misconstrued interpretation of the regulations. Everything for Part-66 training is in the Part-66 regulation. You just have to learn all that is required, and hopefully learn it well. Then the next challenge is finding a place to do the experience. Local aerodromes are a good place to start, then expand from there.
All the best in your choice of career change. I certainly think aircraft maintenance engineering and aircraft engineering in general is just fab.
All the best,
I would highly recommend that you read up on the source data.
Firstly, refer to EASA Part-66 which can be found in European Commission regulation 1321/2014 (google this and it will come up on EASA website). It used to be regulation 2042/2003 but this has just changed before Christmas.
You can download a consolidated version of Part-66 only which includes all acceptable means of compliance at Q.C.M. - New consolidated version of QCM-Part-66 & new amendment to consolidated version QCM-Part-147
Subpart A of the regulation clearly explains what training and experience requirements you need.
You can can take a Part-66 course over two years which costs around £7500 per year and which is full-time and which are delivered by Part-147 approved training organisations (the CAA UK website has an up-dated list of all Part-147 approved organisations in the UK which deliver basic part-66 training). The last time I looked at this list, before Christmas, there was about 11 training organisations in the UK which delivered basic part-66 training (not specialised training on a particular aircraft - called type training.)
Doing such a two year course will not guarantee a licence or a job since you still need to get experience. It will however reduce your experience requirements from 5 years to 2 years. My experience is such that some of those courses are not worth the money and the standards are not always the same in all schools. You have to do a lot of self-study whilst in the school and this is not worth £7500 a year. But not all training organisations are the same.
Another option is apprenticeships which last 4-5 years with an approved Part-145 organisations. There are, sadly, not a great deal of such apprenticeships at the moment in ration to the amount of young men and women who would like to enter this profession.
The third option is self-study. if you are disciplined and can study well, then you can buy the modules course packs from a reputable place. I recommend Flybe UK as they are a Part-147 approved organisations and I have found their materials very good. Go on their training website. They have great facilities in Exeter. You can order each module manuals for between £25 to £50 (some modules are very large). Once you have studied a module, you can take an exam with them or directly with the CAA in various locations in the UK. The exam costs around £45. So you are looking at between £70 to £100 per module. There are approximately 13 to 14 modules to do depending on B1 or B2 pathway. There are also some essay questions to take, and that's a little extra money-wise but a few bobs.
The full list of modules and all the topics to be covered in the modules can once again be found in commission regulation 1321/2014. Again, I recommend that you go directly to the source of the regulation and requirements which EASA. That way, you cannot get the wrong information.
Once you have done your training requirements and exams, which would set you back approximately £1500, the biggest challenge now becomes getting experience.
Yes, if you were a young apprentice, you could hope to get an apprenticeship with one of the airlines/maintenance organisations. But there are so few apprenticeships and so many young people trying to get onto one, it is heartbreaking to see the difficulties that young people have in trying to get onto this career path.
So I will briefly tell you my story as I was also in my mid-30s when my children were all teenagers and I decided that I wanted to stop being a housewife and a legal secretary/supermarket worker, and study aircraft engineering as I had wanted to do when I was a teenager.
So I took myself to college and to uni and graduated at 38 with a BSc in Aircraft Maintenance Engineering. Now, that didn't give me the hand-skills needed for a Part-66 license. However, whilst at uni, and whilst everyone would tell me that I could never get work experience at Manchester airport (where I live), I chose to ignore negative advice and go ahead and forge my own opinions and make my own contacts. I wound up working on the line and in the hangar at Manchester airport two summers in a row with Flybe Engineerings Ltd. Unfortunately, they are no longer at Manchester airport. I was able to start keeping a log book and get valuable hands-on experience.
Upon graduating uni last year, I tried again to work at the airport to complete enough hands-on experience for a license. Had Flybe still been there, they would have happily let me come to complete work experience as the engineers there knew that I could do a good job. Unfortunately for me, they were not. And other airlines or maintenance organisations can have a very closed door approach to those would-be engineers, so no luck for me there.
Also unfortunately for me, being a woman in my late 30s, I am just not appealing enough for such employers! Since you are a bloke, it may work in your favour. However, better fortune came my way as instead I got onto a graduate scheme with the MoD, which doesn't discriminate on age. And so four months after graduating, I found myself working with projects relating to Typhoons and A400M. I then managed to spend six months at Manchester airport in a major airline via an MoD placement scheme. I am now enjoying a good career in aircraft engineering.
I still would like to eventually acquire a Part-66 licence for my own satisfaction. And I am continuing to work on this and relying on the goodwill of good friends I have made in the business over the past few years. I still need three more years of experience as I have been a "self-study" student. I am quite confident that I'll manage to achieve this. It's just getting the contacts I think.
What I am trying to say, bcw, is don't be put off my people telling you it can't be done. Because this is not true. You make your own tomorrow. And it is very realistic for you to at least get your studies done part-time, and then start doing the practical, or do it both at the same time if possible.
I cannot stress enough the importance of actually getting hold of the original source materials, such as EASA regulation, and seeing exactly what is required rather than listen to people's misconstrued interpretation of the regulations. Everything for Part-66 training is in the Part-66 regulation. You just have to learn all that is required, and hopefully learn it well. Then the next challenge is finding a place to do the experience. Local aerodromes are a good place to start, then expand from there.
All the best in your choice of career change. I certainly think aircraft maintenance engineering and aircraft engineering in general is just fab.
All the best,
Last edited by capitaine flam; 18th Jan 2015 at 20:26. Reason: My apologies for an inconsiderate remark towards other responses kindly offered by other users.
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And forgot....
And yes, you can find Part-145 companies who will let you come 1 or 2 days a week. That's what I did with Flybe and there are other smaller aerodromes where you can do that.
Just ask, show good work and competence, and before you know it, you'll do just fine.
Just ask, show good work and competence, and before you know it, you'll do just fine.
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As an addition to Capt Flam's response, there are full-time 2-year college courses available (Bristol, Newcastle, when I last looked) which will take you through the Part 66 Approved Basic Training Cat B (ie B1 and/or B2) course. This gets you a Basic Training Certificate, and you then need a reduced amount of work experience (3 years, but check, might be wrong) before you can apply for your Part 66 B1 or B2 licence. The full-time approved course includes Practical Training (ie hand and workshop skills) and On the Job training done on live aircraft under supervision.
The tuition cost is probably North of £15K by now, but if you are an EU citizen you may qualify for financial support.
The alternative route is to do the Basic Training Modules exams by Home Study, one by one, while working in a suitable hangar to collect the 5 years work experience you will need on this route. The problem will be getting a job with no workshop/hand skills whatsoever! So the College route may be necessary if you can raise the dosh. Don't forget that until you have the license, and have put a type rating on it (£3K approx) you will not have much earning power.
The Home study route has the extra work experience in lieu of the Practical and OJT elements of the Basic Training 2-year approved course.
BEWARE of Colleges, and Universities which offer "Aeronautical Engineering" qualifications (eg BTech, degrees etc that do not include the Part 66 Approved course. Look for the Part 147 approval required to deliver the Part 66 basic training course.
In order to attract Government funding, most Colleges etc offer a funded course, such as BTech, with the Part 66 Basic Training course as the syllabus. So long as they are Part 147 approved, that's OK. At the end of the course, you can bin the useless BTech certificate or whatever, and keep the Part 147 Basic Training Certificate.
This is because the UK Government does not regard a Part 66 licence as a vocational qualification (!), and the UKCAA is too lazy to go in there,all guns blazing, to put it right.
The tuition cost is probably North of £15K by now, but if you are an EU citizen you may qualify for financial support.
The alternative route is to do the Basic Training Modules exams by Home Study, one by one, while working in a suitable hangar to collect the 5 years work experience you will need on this route. The problem will be getting a job with no workshop/hand skills whatsoever! So the College route may be necessary if you can raise the dosh. Don't forget that until you have the license, and have put a type rating on it (£3K approx) you will not have much earning power.
The Home study route has the extra work experience in lieu of the Practical and OJT elements of the Basic Training 2-year approved course.
BEWARE of Colleges, and Universities which offer "Aeronautical Engineering" qualifications (eg BTech, degrees etc that do not include the Part 66 Approved course. Look for the Part 147 approval required to deliver the Part 66 basic training course.
In order to attract Government funding, most Colleges etc offer a funded course, such as BTech, with the Part 66 Basic Training course as the syllabus. So long as they are Part 147 approved, that's OK. At the end of the course, you can bin the useless BTech certificate or whatever, and keep the Part 147 Basic Training Certificate.
This is because the UK Government does not regard a Part 66 licence as a vocational qualification (!), and the UKCAA is too lazy to go in there,all guns blazing, to put it right.
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Hello Capot
The rare times that I answer in this forum, you are always quite on the ball with my responses! There is no escape from you!
According to Part-66, an approved basic course delivered by Part-147 will reduce time to two years now. All is well explained in Part-66 at regulation 66.A.30 and also in the Acceptable Means of Compliance which relate to 66.A.30.
The list of Part-147 approved organisations available from CAA website will list all those that you mention. However, there seems to be only 11 places at the moment offering a proper Part-66 basic course. Whether they are well delivered is another question. I do believe some are good.
However, bcw says that he cannot entertain full-time as he is working. So he has only the self-study option and securing the goodwill of local maintenance organisations or aerodrome who will let him come and get some experience.
Thank God for people of goodwill!
By the way, you may be pleased to know that the results of the AME Training Standard survey which I put on Pprune last January and which 120 engineers kindly answered (and I think you did too) has been proving useful and has gone to good places.
The rare times that I answer in this forum, you are always quite on the ball with my responses! There is no escape from you!
According to Part-66, an approved basic course delivered by Part-147 will reduce time to two years now. All is well explained in Part-66 at regulation 66.A.30 and also in the Acceptable Means of Compliance which relate to 66.A.30.
The list of Part-147 approved organisations available from CAA website will list all those that you mention. However, there seems to be only 11 places at the moment offering a proper Part-66 basic course. Whether they are well delivered is another question. I do believe some are good.
However, bcw says that he cannot entertain full-time as he is working. So he has only the self-study option and securing the goodwill of local maintenance organisations or aerodrome who will let him come and get some experience.
Thank God for people of goodwill!
By the way, you may be pleased to know that the results of the AME Training Standard survey which I put on Pprune last January and which 120 engineers kindly answered (and I think you did too) has been proving useful and has gone to good places.
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For some reason I had thought bcw was in Australia, now I see he's in the UK. So you guys will have a better idea about the EASA Part 66 requirements than I do. I was posting with the CASA Part 66 requirements in mind.
Cheers,
John
Cheers,
John
4. Is this whole idea realistic or am I kidding myself to think I could achieve a license this way?
I still would like to eventually acquire a Part-66 licence for my own satisfaction. And I am continuing to work on this and relying on the goodwill of good friends I have made in the business over the past few years. I still need three more years of experience as I have been a "self-study" student. I am quite confident that I'll manage to achieve this. It's just getting the contacts I think.
What I am trying to say, bcw, is don't be put off my people telling you it can't be done. Because this is not true.
What I am trying to say, bcw, is don't be put off my people telling you it can't be done. Because this is not true.
All the hard work, time and effort put in, commendable as it is, and still a licence is not achieved.
It is very difficult to obtain a CAA Licence. It is a full time occupation career path, not something you do as a part time 'hobby'.
Mechanics with 20 years aircraft experience can still struggle to qualify even in a fully supported MRO environment.
Good luck.
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Not a contradiction
I am sorry that there is no contradiction in my statement.
Since I have to earn a living after being a housewife for 14 years, when the oportunity to work for the MoD and the Military Aviation Authority came up with Engineering chartership around the corner, I took it.
I could alternatively have continued to work for free in aerodromes or at other airports or with LAME colleagues for the next three years and struggle to make ends meet. A little selfish viewpoint when I have three teenage children. Like BCW, I have to keep income coming in, but I still intend to acquire a Part-66 license. It'll take me a few years, but I am not worried. It is really a goal that I want to achieve as I set myself it a few years ago. It is like a challenge and it will help my continuing development in my airworthiness job.
In fact, all my hard work - as you so kindly mention - has paid off spectacularly with a great airworthiness job. At my time in life, I just can't complain.
I hold in great esteem the many extremely experienced LAMEs under whose tutelage I have had the opportunity to work. It takes many years to get to that level of competence and I certainly admire it.
Keep in mind that if there were apprenticeships going on, I would rather a young person have it: they have a whole future to work towards; house, family etc. I have that already and I would feel a bit of a cheat to take that away from a young person.
But there is no denying that it takes a lot of work in this country to obtain a Part-66 license. It takes a certain persistence and stiff upper lip. It is not always easy, but it can be done.
Since I have to earn a living after being a housewife for 14 years, when the oportunity to work for the MoD and the Military Aviation Authority came up with Engineering chartership around the corner, I took it.
I could alternatively have continued to work for free in aerodromes or at other airports or with LAME colleagues for the next three years and struggle to make ends meet. A little selfish viewpoint when I have three teenage children. Like BCW, I have to keep income coming in, but I still intend to acquire a Part-66 license. It'll take me a few years, but I am not worried. It is really a goal that I want to achieve as I set myself it a few years ago. It is like a challenge and it will help my continuing development in my airworthiness job.
In fact, all my hard work - as you so kindly mention - has paid off spectacularly with a great airworthiness job. At my time in life, I just can't complain.
I hold in great esteem the many extremely experienced LAMEs under whose tutelage I have had the opportunity to work. It takes many years to get to that level of competence and I certainly admire it.
Keep in mind that if there were apprenticeships going on, I would rather a young person have it: they have a whole future to work towards; house, family etc. I have that already and I would feel a bit of a cheat to take that away from a young person.
But there is no denying that it takes a lot of work in this country to obtain a Part-66 license. It takes a certain persistence and stiff upper lip. It is not always easy, but it can be done.
Last edited by capitaine flam; 18th Jan 2015 at 21:23.
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And by the way TURIN, I have read many of your posts since you are a regular user and many have been useful. You also helped when I carried out that survey and appreciate it.
No offence intended Captaine.
You have clearly put in the hours to get where you are and I am not rubbishing that achievement.
I was, I admit clumsily, just trying to make the point to any budding young (or older for that matter) maintenance engineers that it is a hard road.
There are too many who get conned into doing the theory modules with the promise of a pot of gold at the end without really understanding the hoops that need to be jumped through to complete the objective.
You have clearly put in the hours to get where you are and I am not rubbishing that achievement.
I was, I admit clumsily, just trying to make the point to any budding young (or older for that matter) maintenance engineers that it is a hard road.
There are too many who get conned into doing the theory modules with the promise of a pot of gold at the end without really understanding the hoops that need to be jumped through to complete the objective.
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Hi Turin
On that score, I agree one hundred percent.
The misleading advertisement by Part-66 basic training schools that once you complete the course, you get the licence is something which I highly disagree with. It gives false hope to people. And per my own experience some of the standards in some of these schools do leave a lot to be desired.
I merely wanted to point out in my long post that it can be achieved with persistence and resourcefulness, but the education and skills industry and climate in the UK make it very difficult for the would-be aircraft engineer, old and young. A great shame really since according to RAeS stats, a great percentage of the UK LAME workforce is due for retirement in the next 10 years.
If a would-be LAME does not feel that he/she has got the persistence required and has got all the particulars regarding the current training and experience requirements situation in the UK, then at least they can hopefully make an informed choice in terms of career move.
On that score, I agree one hundred percent.
The misleading advertisement by Part-66 basic training schools that once you complete the course, you get the licence is something which I highly disagree with. It gives false hope to people. And per my own experience some of the standards in some of these schools do leave a lot to be desired.
I merely wanted to point out in my long post that it can be achieved with persistence and resourcefulness, but the education and skills industry and climate in the UK make it very difficult for the would-be aircraft engineer, old and young. A great shame really since according to RAeS stats, a great percentage of the UK LAME workforce is due for retirement in the next 10 years.
If a would-be LAME does not feel that he/she has got the persistence required and has got all the particulars regarding the current training and experience requirements situation in the UK, then at least they can hopefully make an informed choice in terms of career move.
