Type Rating A320 V2500/ CFM56
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Type Rating A320 V2500/ CFM56
Have been considering applying for a vacancy requiring A320 rating with both V2500 AND CFM56 engines. My A320 Rating course included only the v2500 engine, however I also have a B737-NG Rating with the CFM56 engine. Would like to enquire what the limitations/ restrictions associated with using the CFM56 engine rating in conjunction with the A320 since this engine type was not covered on my initial course?
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am in your shoe currently, I hold an A320 enhanced and classic type rating with CFM-56-5B/A, Then our company brought a couple of 321s with V2500 engines and started running the courses to us in batchs, So I will probably get it next year however, Presently the Quality department have issued me a 321 approval with the exception of engine.
Since the 737s NG use CFM56-7BE, Then it's of no use as 320s use CFM56-5B/A so you will probably end up with a limited approval until you do the engine course such as my case.
Since the 737s NG use CFM56-7BE, Then it's of no use as 320s use CFM56-5B/A so you will probably end up with a limited approval until you do the engine course such as my case.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear safety concerns
I do have a 321, 319 and 320 type rating with CFM 56 its just the v2500 that I don't have.
I have undergone 3 oral examinations to achieve this limited approvals that I hold now.
I certify the whole aircraft except it's v2500 engines.
Have you not heard of approval with limitations?
please get your facts straight before bashing on me.
Thank you
I do have a 321, 319 and 320 type rating with CFM 56 its just the v2500 that I don't have.
I have undergone 3 oral examinations to achieve this limited approvals that I hold now.
I certify the whole aircraft except it's v2500 engines.
Have you not heard of approval with limitations?
please get your facts straight before bashing on me.
Thank you
Last edited by flame_bringer; 25th Nov 2012 at 12:36.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Iceland
Age: 60
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Safety Concerns has stated quite correctly, you need the correct engine/airframe combination type rating in order to certify that aircraft at all.
If you have just V2500 you cannot certify a landing light SBU change on a CFM'd 320 because you do not have the type rating, to do so would be illegal.
The fact you have CFM on your 737 makes no difference at all and will NOT get you any kind of type rating issue or 'limited approval' on that aircraft. As you have stated the Airbus uses a CFM56-5 and the Boeing a CFM56-7.
You'll need to go and do a course to have the CFM56 put on your license, along with the relevant Practical Training/OJT (none of your B737 sheets will count!).
Don't forget it isn't just an engine course; it's an Engine & Airframe Interfaces course.
If you have just V2500 you cannot certify a landing light SBU change on a CFM'd 320 because you do not have the type rating, to do so would be illegal.
The fact you have CFM on your 737 makes no difference at all and will NOT get you any kind of type rating issue or 'limited approval' on that aircraft. As you have stated the Airbus uses a CFM56-5 and the Boeing a CFM56-7.
You'll need to go and do a course to have the CFM56 put on your license, along with the relevant Practical Training/OJT (none of your B737 sheets will count!).
Don't forget it isn't just an engine course; it's an Engine & Airframe Interfaces course.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Iceland
Age: 60
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without having a personal dig; where do you think you'd find details of what authorisation can be issued? Any LAE should know this.
Part 145.A.35
Excepting those cases listed in 145.A.30(j) the organisation may only issue a certification authorisation to certifying staff in relation to the basic categories or subcategories and any type rating listed on the aircraft maintenance licence listed in Part 66, subject to the licence remaining valid throughout the validity period of the authorisation and the certifying staff remaining in compliance with Part 66.
You the licensed engineer when you sign the CRS are confirming the aircraft is being released in accordance with Part 145 mate.
The responsibility lays with the Licensed Engineer. This is exactly why the National Aviation Authority issues LAEs with licenses to uphold safety standards, we are the policemen acting for the NAA. If this wasn't the case then god knows what airlines/MROs would allow out the door with bean counters running the show with no regard for safety. The LAE is the last line of defence.
If your license does not state Airbus A318/319/320/321 CFM56 then you cannot issue a 'Level 3' authorisation release on it, as quoted above.
Seriously, take it up with your company/NAA. As I promise you the company won't give a hoot if your license gets revoked and your livelyhood is lost.
I realise you probably aren't the only certifier in your outfit in the same boat, get it checked out and insist on the training, it's your license at stake, and like I said, it's nothing personal.
Part 145.A.35
Excepting those cases listed in 145.A.30(j) the organisation may only issue a certification authorisation to certifying staff in relation to the basic categories or subcategories and any type rating listed on the aircraft maintenance licence listed in Part 66, subject to the licence remaining valid throughout the validity period of the authorisation and the certifying staff remaining in compliance with Part 66.
You the licensed engineer when you sign the CRS are confirming the aircraft is being released in accordance with Part 145 mate.
The responsibility lays with the Licensed Engineer. This is exactly why the National Aviation Authority issues LAEs with licenses to uphold safety standards, we are the policemen acting for the NAA. If this wasn't the case then god knows what airlines/MROs would allow out the door with bean counters running the show with no regard for safety. The LAE is the last line of defence.
If your license does not state Airbus A318/319/320/321 CFM56 then you cannot issue a 'Level 3' authorisation release on it, as quoted above.
Seriously, take it up with your company/NAA. As I promise you the company won't give a hoot if your license gets revoked and your livelyhood is lost.
I realise you probably aren't the only certifier in your outfit in the same boat, get it checked out and insist on the training, it's your license at stake, and like I said, it's nothing personal.
Last edited by T.R Haychemu; 25th Nov 2012 at 13:50.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Iceland
Age: 60
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In addition, for more ammo to quote at your quality manager;
Appendix 4.1. of Part 145 states;
(e) Line maintenance certifying staff and base maintenance support staff shall receive type training at a level corresponding to Part-66 Appendix III level 3 for every aircraft on which they are authorised to make certification. However those persons whose authorised tasks do not exceed those of a Part-66 category A certifying staff may receive task training in lieu of complete type training.
It's quite black and white.
Appendix 4.1. of Part 145 states;
(e) Line maintenance certifying staff and base maintenance support staff shall receive type training at a level corresponding to Part-66 Appendix III level 3 for every aircraft on which they are authorised to make certification. However those persons whose authorised tasks do not exceed those of a Part-66 category A certifying staff may receive task training in lieu of complete type training.
It's quite black and white.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may have forgotten one thing, even though I hold an easa 66 licence with thr type rating endorsed, I'm signing under my BCAA licence ad my approval is granted from my company and not EASA and as per our MMOE it is allowed to have a limited approval.
You are assuming that I'm signing under my EASA licence which is incorrect.
You are assuming that I'm signing under my EASA licence which is incorrect.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Iceland
Age: 60
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Limitations are printed on your licence, for example, No Electrics or No Avionic LRU.
These would be applied as limitations to type ratings you hold, and you'd be given an authorisation by QA as appropriate. B737 CFM56 - No Avionic LRU for example.
You cannot add/make up limitations for type ratings you do not hold.
Your A320 (V2500) might aswell be an Embraer 145 as far as giving you any release privileges on an A320 (CFM56) is concerned, they are different type ratings.
These would be applied as limitations to type ratings you hold, and you'd be given an authorisation by QA as appropriate. B737 CFM56 - No Avionic LRU for example.
You cannot add/make up limitations for type ratings you do not hold.
Your A320 (V2500) might aswell be an Embraer 145 as far as giving you any release privileges on an A320 (CFM56) is concerned, they are different type ratings.
Last edited by T.R Haychemu; 25th Nov 2012 at 15:10.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Safety concerns
My company is EASA approved but I'm not signing under my EASA license.
I do not currently work in the EASA zone and my country has its own license.
EASA has nothing to do with my approval.
At 57 year old you must be quite experienced in the industry and quite knowledgable, I'm rather surprised that you are unable to get this piece of information through your head.
My company is EASA approved but I'm not signing under my EASA license.
I do not currently work in the EASA zone and my country has its own license.
EASA has nothing to do with my approval.
At 57 year old you must be quite experienced in the industry and quite knowledgable, I'm rather surprised that you are unable to get this piece of information through your head.
Last edited by flame_bringer; 25th Nov 2012 at 16:44.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: .
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the original poster is in New Zealand I can not comment on what licencing system they have in place, but normally you would have to do a differences course that would cover the engine and it's interface with the airframe, so at a guess what you have on the 737 has no relation to the 320.
I would not let that however stop you from applying for the positio, not everybody has everything, and companies do offer training for the right candidates.
It seems some are basing their arguements based on knowledge, or lack of, on the EASA system, for those of us that hold various licences and authorisations from differing authorities, and company autorisations under a company approval as issued by an NAA different to national one. It is possible under some systems to hold limited authorisations, I know I certainly have in the past.
I would not let that however stop you from applying for the positio, not everybody has everything, and companies do offer training for the right candidates.
It seems some are basing their arguements based on knowledge, or lack of, on the EASA system, for those of us that hold various licences and authorisations from differing authorities, and company autorisations under a company approval as issued by an NAA different to national one. It is possible under some systems to hold limited authorisations, I know I certainly have in the past.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HI
The CFM56-5 and -7 Eng's are a different type rating and you will not get credit for one if you have the other. You can get an airframe only approval and just sign for airframe tasks on the A320 with different eng type. You can sign up to a weekly check with this.
The CFM56-5 and -7 Eng's are a different type rating and you will not get credit for one if you have the other. You can get an airframe only approval and just sign for airframe tasks on the A320 with different eng type. You can sign up to a weekly check with this.
