Graduate Salaries
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Graduate Salaries
I thought that this report was rather enjoyable to read - albeit it's only about the US.
I suspect that a lot of those aerospace graduates doing so well aren't actually working in aerospace, but it says something useful about the education nonetheless.
G
I suspect that a lot of those aerospace graduates doing so well aren't actually working in aerospace, but it says something useful about the education nonetheless.
G
Educated Hillbilly
Considering that starting salaries in 1999/2000 were around the 19000/20,000 pound mark, a starting salary of 22500 in 2010 isn't that impressive; also consider that prior to 1999 we didn't have to pay tuition fees. Considering real inflation (not the skewed artificial figures the government releases) it is actually a decrease in pay.
Also do some research into senior engineering salaries, in 1999 these were around 35000 a year. Alot of senior engineering post for permanent staff in 2010 still seem only to attract about 37000 a year; so again in real terms a decrease.
Also do some research into senior engineering salaries, in 1999 these were around 35000 a year. Alot of senior engineering post for permanent staff in 2010 still seem only to attract about 37000 a year; so again in real terms a decrease.
Educated Hillbilly
Piggbank,
Note those are permanent staff level salaries; as a contractor you do earn alot more in the equivalent roles (almost double when you account for all the tax benefits of contracting).
Actually a good deal of us in the analysis side part of the industry do find that contracting is the only way to make a decent living.
Note those are permanent staff level salaries; as a contractor you do earn alot more in the equivalent roles (almost double when you account for all the tax benefits of contracting).
Actually a good deal of us in the analysis side part of the industry do find that contracting is the only way to make a decent living.
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I am in permanent employment. One month on and one month off flown home. However this is risking thread creep. My argument is how can aviation attract and retain bright graduates when a glance at the jobs needing less knowledge and level of responsibility pay more.
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A fair point, and I think it's struggling. When people less well trained and less capable are routinely making much more money in parasitic occupations such as banking or the media, aviation gets the people who love aviation (good) but perhaps is losing many able people who also are very motivated by money.
Licenced engineers, as you say, do get fairly well paid (albeit also treated quite badly) as do pilots, but the very necessary graduate professions in aerospace don't do so well, and we do need them.
It took me longer to qualify as a Chartered Engineer than it would have done as a GP (and I was fast!), and vastly longer than a banker yet I'm unlikely to ever be on the same sort of money as a physician with the same number of years in the job, let alone somebody who is "something in the city". I live with it, and love my job - but we should be somewhere similar financially if we're to attract all the best young brains into areas such as aircraft design, safety research...
I have a friend who is a first class brain with a degree in aerospace engineering. He is a business banker who scratches the aviation itch by running a couple of old aeroplane syndicates - all very well, but couldn't somebody like that have really done a lot of good working full time in aviation?
G
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Genghis my story is much the same as yours I think, 10 years to Chartered Engineer which is generally ignored by employers (not to mention the CAA). I don't remember what I earned when starting work as a fresh-faced graduate in 1978 but I do remember that 10 years later I was on the princely sum of £13K.
Fast forward to today and I would expect most grads to be earning somewhere round double that sum in their first proper job. I'm guessing though that despite the frequent lament that "UK needs Engineers" UK is not willing to pay them and the glut of new graduates keeps the salaries down. Little wonder then that we don't get the Engineers we want when they can go into teaching for more, or banking for twice as much (before bonuses!).
Sadly engineering is not one of life's great payers, though it remains a uniquely satisfying career. As with many trades there is money to be made by going freelance, but at the expense of job security and home life/location. Contracting is predominantly a young man's option and few are willing or able to run it through to retirement, resulting in loss of career options later in the working life. The graduate career path is pretty much the opposite, requiring financial and time commitment invested early on to reap benefits later. As discussed in other threads maintenance is largely an apprenticeship approach while the degree route is better suited to design/development. Both have their advantages but those looking at the first rung of the ladder should really be considering which is the best ladder for them.
Fast forward to today and I would expect most grads to be earning somewhere round double that sum in their first proper job. I'm guessing though that despite the frequent lament that "UK needs Engineers" UK is not willing to pay them and the glut of new graduates keeps the salaries down. Little wonder then that we don't get the Engineers we want when they can go into teaching for more, or banking for twice as much (before bonuses!).
Sadly engineering is not one of life's great payers, though it remains a uniquely satisfying career. As with many trades there is money to be made by going freelance, but at the expense of job security and home life/location. Contracting is predominantly a young man's option and few are willing or able to run it through to retirement, resulting in loss of career options later in the working life. The graduate career path is pretty much the opposite, requiring financial and time commitment invested early on to reap benefits later. As discussed in other threads maintenance is largely an apprenticeship approach while the degree route is better suited to design/development. Both have their advantages but those looking at the first rung of the ladder should really be considering which is the best ladder for them.
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those looking at the first rung of the ladder should really be considering which is the best ladder for them.
Dentists are second on the list just behind doctors, but doctors spend seven years qualifying, for dentists its just a three year degree (in England) followed by one year's vocational training. Easy-peasy! Once you've done your time as an associate in someone else's practice you can start your own and earn even more money than a Plumber!
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Grad Salaries.
Guys,
The Low salaries you spot of £22,000ish to retain "High calibre" graduates is not the whole story. The following is based on my experience and those of my friends. Graduation ranging from 2007 - 2009. The companies this applies to: RR, BAE, AW, Thales, Goodrich, Airbus(UK)...generally the BIG players of the UK....
Genghis, you can look away as I know you already know most of the following!
Generally(PLEASE NOTE EMPHASIS) speaking:
There are two types of Grads, lets call them:
Straight into a technically specific roll. Starting Salaries are around the £25,500 - £26,500 mark. You are put in a chair in an office and thats it...MOUTH SHUT, EYES OPEN (advice given to me!!) Time to learn and be a self-improver.
Graduate Trainee
These schemes are where you get the low £22k figures from. Rolls Royce has some really stupid names for their schemes, but these schemes are typically 2 years of "structured" placements across the breadth of the company. You then get a choice where you end up (little more freedom than the DE grads).
HOWEVER Although the salary could be as low as £22,000, there is often little perks such as £1000 signing on, £1000 end of year 1 bonus, Rent allowance foryour frist 6 months, etc etc.
Your basic Salary then should goe up from £22,000 to about £24,000 for year 2. After the 2nd year you move into your permanent roll and on a salaray between £26,500 - £28,000. Typically this is what the DE grads are on after 1.5 years anyway.
These salaries must still be in the better half of the grad population, surely??
Just FYI, i graduated only with a Bachelors...my friends have MEng, but this makes no difference it seems to opportunities or salary, merely an early perperation/short cut to CEng when you can be bothered with the paper work :P
Hope this helps!
Sorry for my aweful typos, im off to lunch! No time to correct!!
The Low salaries you spot of £22,000ish to retain "High calibre" graduates is not the whole story. The following is based on my experience and those of my friends. Graduation ranging from 2007 - 2009. The companies this applies to: RR, BAE, AW, Thales, Goodrich, Airbus(UK)...generally the BIG players of the UK....
Genghis, you can look away as I know you already know most of the following!
Generally(PLEASE NOTE EMPHASIS) speaking:
There are two types of Grads, lets call them:
- Direct-Entry
- Graduate Trainee
Straight into a technically specific roll. Starting Salaries are around the £25,500 - £26,500 mark. You are put in a chair in an office and thats it...MOUTH SHUT, EYES OPEN (advice given to me!!) Time to learn and be a self-improver.
Graduate Trainee
These schemes are where you get the low £22k figures from. Rolls Royce has some really stupid names for their schemes, but these schemes are typically 2 years of "structured" placements across the breadth of the company. You then get a choice where you end up (little more freedom than the DE grads).
HOWEVER Although the salary could be as low as £22,000, there is often little perks such as £1000 signing on, £1000 end of year 1 bonus, Rent allowance foryour frist 6 months, etc etc.
Your basic Salary then should goe up from £22,000 to about £24,000 for year 2. After the 2nd year you move into your permanent roll and on a salaray between £26,500 - £28,000. Typically this is what the DE grads are on after 1.5 years anyway.
These salaries must still be in the better half of the grad population, surely??
Just FYI, i graduated only with a Bachelors...my friends have MEng, but this makes no difference it seems to opportunities or salary, merely an early perperation/short cut to CEng when you can be bothered with the paper work :P
Hope this helps!
Sorry for my aweful typos, im off to lunch! No time to correct!!
Last edited by lovezzin; 13th Mar 2012 at 14:10.
Educated Hillbilly
It is unlikley the salary situation will improve as in the last couple of years that has been an increased use of Indian and East European sub-contract companies with in the Industry; this puts pressure on UK companies to further reduce costs.
The UK industry has so far survived on the fact we still tend to "know what we are doing" (well Airbus UK seem to be making a good effort at proving otherwise). However as the Indian companies gain experience the technical competence gap is narrowing.
The UK industry has so far survived on the fact we still tend to "know what we are doing" (well Airbus UK seem to be making a good effort at proving otherwise). However as the Indian companies gain experience the technical competence gap is narrowing.
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Hope you all realize in the USA an engineer is strictly of the design/modification sort, nothing to do with the FAA. Those saleries seem high and I believe it to be a result of the defence divisions alot of major aerospace manufacturers have been making alot of money off of as a result of the war.
The equivilant of a LAME in the USA is usually making about as much if not more that the engineer on support staff standing by to whip off an E.A. to stop drill a crack that the SRM does not cover on an overnight.
Generally the starting wage for a AMT or LAME is 12-18 dollars an hour to start. 20-25 dollars is usally not very hard to find with some experience. Low 40's being paid to a seasoned tech as one of the most desirable of employers.
So annual is 25k - 90K, not to speak of overtime and benefits.
The equivilant of a LAME in the USA is usually making about as much if not more that the engineer on support staff standing by to whip off an E.A. to stop drill a crack that the SRM does not cover on an overnight.
Generally the starting wage for a AMT or LAME is 12-18 dollars an hour to start. 20-25 dollars is usally not very hard to find with some experience. Low 40's being paid to a seasoned tech as one of the most desirable of employers.
So annual is 25k - 90K, not to speak of overtime and benefits.
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Hi guys,
I've recently been promoted to senior engineer, i work in the UK, graduated from a very good uni. I graduated in 2005, my salary has jumped considerably over the past 4.5 years...i guess like any profession if you're good you'll do well.
As a grad eng my package incl bonus was 25k (in 2005 - 06), which was pretty good! In my 2nd yr i was given a 3k pay rise plus bonus taking my salary to 30.5k (06 - 07). During my 3rd yr my salary increased by a further 3k \and bonus also increased so in total i was getting 35k (07 - 08), during this yr i was seconded to site for 6 months and my salary was bumped up so for 6 months i was on the equivalent of (40k). During 2008 to 2009 - i had 3 years exp, i decided to leave the firm and go into the public sector, where things were more stable, as a Design engineer (3 yrs exp) i was on 40k. 3 months ago i passed my charteredship and my pay was reviewed and i am now earning just under £50k, the bonus is only £250-£500/yr, which takes me above the £50k mark. I think this is pretty good for a 27 year old. My bro (29) is a doctor, he's a GP registra and is on about £52k, so our salaries are comparable.
On the otherhand my friend from uni also joined the graduate scheme with the same firm i worked for as a graduate. He didn't leave the company and so he's been there for 4.5 years and he's still on £35k, and he passed his charteredship the same time as me. This probably due to the current market where firms are making cut-backs!
In conclusion, i guess what i'm saying is there is def money to be made in engineering, but just don't stay in the same place for more than 3 years! Once you reach senior eng you can go on to become lead eng then go on to become a principal/chief eng where salaries can touch £100k (or more) in the Uk. Most engineers go on to become directors/managers for firms where they also earn six fig salaries with huge bonuses! The other option is get your experience and then go on to contracting where you earn by the hour. These rates can vary between £30/hr to £70/hr. I know petrochem offer £120/hr.
There are a lot of engineers out there, but not many good ones! And these good ones are the ones will be rewarded! If you're thinking of doing engineering do the traditional core eng degrees:
Civil
Mechanical
Electrical & Electronic
Chemical
Aeronautical
These core degrees are much more recoginsed than the more recent 'so-called' eng degrees such as bio-medical eng, bio-chemical...etc etc
I've recently been promoted to senior engineer, i work in the UK, graduated from a very good uni. I graduated in 2005, my salary has jumped considerably over the past 4.5 years...i guess like any profession if you're good you'll do well.
As a grad eng my package incl bonus was 25k (in 2005 - 06), which was pretty good! In my 2nd yr i was given a 3k pay rise plus bonus taking my salary to 30.5k (06 - 07). During my 3rd yr my salary increased by a further 3k \and bonus also increased so in total i was getting 35k (07 - 08), during this yr i was seconded to site for 6 months and my salary was bumped up so for 6 months i was on the equivalent of (40k). During 2008 to 2009 - i had 3 years exp, i decided to leave the firm and go into the public sector, where things were more stable, as a Design engineer (3 yrs exp) i was on 40k. 3 months ago i passed my charteredship and my pay was reviewed and i am now earning just under £50k, the bonus is only £250-£500/yr, which takes me above the £50k mark. I think this is pretty good for a 27 year old. My bro (29) is a doctor, he's a GP registra and is on about £52k, so our salaries are comparable.
On the otherhand my friend from uni also joined the graduate scheme with the same firm i worked for as a graduate. He didn't leave the company and so he's been there for 4.5 years and he's still on £35k, and he passed his charteredship the same time as me. This probably due to the current market where firms are making cut-backs!
In conclusion, i guess what i'm saying is there is def money to be made in engineering, but just don't stay in the same place for more than 3 years! Once you reach senior eng you can go on to become lead eng then go on to become a principal/chief eng where salaries can touch £100k (or more) in the Uk. Most engineers go on to become directors/managers for firms where they also earn six fig salaries with huge bonuses! The other option is get your experience and then go on to contracting where you earn by the hour. These rates can vary between £30/hr to £70/hr. I know petrochem offer £120/hr.
There are a lot of engineers out there, but not many good ones! And these good ones are the ones will be rewarded! If you're thinking of doing engineering do the traditional core eng degrees:
Civil
Mechanical
Electrical & Electronic
Chemical
Aeronautical
These core degrees are much more recoginsed than the more recent 'so-called' eng degrees such as bio-medical eng, bio-chemical...etc etc
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AV_Senior Eng, fancy writing something like that!!!!!! stop poking your chest out!!
You have done very well for yourself indeed. However, your tone is a little arrogant and you seem to be full of yourself to say the least. You didnt need to come on here gloating your figures about with a step by step walkthrough of your salaries, this is regarding Graduate salaries (i.e between graduateing and 1.5-2 years)
Who loves themself? 
- Seriously, who goes around openly admitting they are "good", those who genuinely are do not go around suggesting it, nor do they feel the need to. Good work from a good Engineer is reconized and it need not be mentioned....you remind me of a grad here who not so long ago introduced himself to a group of us saying "im high-calibre"...LOL, lets just say he wasnt and swiftly moved onto the MOD - the haven for some shocking Engineers!!
The Best Engineers are driven by their work, not by money. 
Money is a factor, as with everything; but generally all Engineering salaries are comfy, so do not become the driving force of ones life motivation...You will find the Best Engineers follow a program through to the end and have a serious amount of pride in their work.
And let me guess, you are one of the good ones?? 
Hopping ship every 3 years...Directorships dont come from hopping around all your life. at some point you are going to have to demonstrate some sense of loyalty and pride in a company and stick around for a while.
Seriously dude, how big is your head??
And before anyone assumes im just disgruntled or jealous, let me assure you im not. I'm 24, My current employment package is £84,000 of which the equivilent of £61,000 is salary. The rest is housing+car. How d'ya like them apples
I think this is pretty good for a 24 year old
You have done very well for yourself indeed. However, your tone is a little arrogant and you seem to be full of yourself to say the least. You didnt need to come on here gloating your figures about with a step by step walkthrough of your salaries, this is regarding Graduate salaries (i.e between graduateing and 1.5-2 years)
my salary has jumped considerably over the past 4.5 years...i guess like any profession if you're good you'll do well.
- Seriously, who goes around openly admitting they are "good", those who genuinely are do not go around suggesting it, nor do they feel the need to. Good work from a good Engineer is reconized and it need not be mentioned....you remind me of a grad here who not so long ago introduced himself to a group of us saying "im high-calibre"...LOL, lets just say he wasnt and swiftly moved onto the MOD - the haven for some shocking Engineers!!
I think this is pretty good for a 27 year old
but just don't stay in the same place for more than 3 years
Money is a factor, as with everything; but generally all Engineering salaries are comfy, so do not become the driving force of ones life motivation...You will find the Best Engineers follow a program through to the end and have a serious amount of pride in their work.
There are a lot of engineers out there, but not many good ones
Hopping ship every 3 years...Directorships dont come from hopping around all your life. at some point you are going to have to demonstrate some sense of loyalty and pride in a company and stick around for a while.
Seriously dude, how big is your head??
And before anyone assumes im just disgruntled or jealous, let me assure you im not. I'm 24, My current employment package is £84,000 of which the equivilent of £61,000 is salary. The rest is housing+car. How d'ya like them apples
I think this is pretty good for a 24 year old
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Thread Starter
I know quite a few very good engineers, but not many of those are making those sorts of salaries. On the other hand, they do usually know how to use capital letters and generally manage a bit more humility.
That said, sadly I think that Av_Senior_Eng is right that jumping between jobs regularly is the way to the top - whilst most organisations probably should reward loyalty, the reality is that they rarely do and routinely parachute in senior people from outside, passing by those who have shown long term loyalty. This may be because those same organisations are very bad at giving people in-house development opportunities. Or, just that the faults of people coming from outside are less visible until they've been there a while (and three years seems about optimal to run away before your mistakes start to catch up on you). Staying with a project is a great idea - but the reality is that most of us work on multiple projects within our job, and if you never leave until every project is finished, you'll be there until somebody carries you out in a box.
I've yet to have a decent payrise or promotion without moving job! But by moving, I have done reasonably well. So far as I can see, this seem to work for most people who have made it far up the ladder.
G
That said, sadly I think that Av_Senior_Eng is right that jumping between jobs regularly is the way to the top - whilst most organisations probably should reward loyalty, the reality is that they rarely do and routinely parachute in senior people from outside, passing by those who have shown long term loyalty. This may be because those same organisations are very bad at giving people in-house development opportunities. Or, just that the faults of people coming from outside are less visible until they've been there a while (and three years seems about optimal to run away before your mistakes start to catch up on you). Staying with a project is a great idea - but the reality is that most of us work on multiple projects within our job, and if you never leave until every project is finished, you'll be there until somebody carries you out in a box.
I've yet to have a decent payrise or promotion without moving job! But by moving, I have done reasonably well. So far as I can see, this seem to work for most people who have made it far up the ladder.
G
