Pilots Attitude To Engineering
Join Date: Feb 2005
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My personal favourite with regards to pilots is " you can teach a monkey to ride a bike - but when the chain falls off he;s f****d! and to flight attendants "Chicken or the beef - seriously how hard could it be!"
I am baffled somedays at how little some of the younger pilots Know about what they're driving. Sign of the times really, too much simulation and not enough banging head on things.
I am baffled somedays at how little some of the younger pilots Know about what they're driving. Sign of the times really, too much simulation and not enough banging head on things.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Im from Maintenance.My Experience says that there are all types of apples.....Most are good ones.
Pilots/AMEs have a good to excellent rappot.However one may encounter the fresher who thinks differently.But its a matter of time before the fresher comes on line.
Pilots/AMEs have a good to excellent rappot.However one may encounter the fresher who thinks differently.But its a matter of time before the fresher comes on line.
Join Date: May 2001
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I am baffled somedays at how little some of the younger pilots Know about what they're driving
Had a engineer on the jump seat today. His first jump seat ride.
He was a heavy maint engineer qualified for engine runs but had never seen the engines indications inflight. Loads of questions afterwards and a pleasure to answer them as well.
And we spotted him tweaking one of the flight idles down and talking on the phone about re-rigging the old girl when she was next in on check. I think his attitude to lever splits has been changed
Its just a pity we couldn't give him a Effects of Controls part 1 lesson. I suspect he would have had a PPL within a year.
[Im from Maintenance.My Experience says that there are all types of apples.....Most are good ones.
Pilots/AMEs have a good to excellent rappot.However one may encounter the fresher who thinks differently.But its a matter of time before the fresher comes on line.]
Same applies to engineers. (And I are one
)
Pilots/AMEs have a good to excellent rappot.However one may encounter the fresher who thinks differently.But its a matter of time before the fresher comes on line.]
Same applies to engineers. (And I are one
)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: england
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A Trip Down Memory Lane.....
Reminds me of a time when I was working as an Engineer at an Eastish European Outstation for a well known Independent British Company. We were all Engineers and Pilots trying our best to make things work. This effort involved a certain amount of socialising.
One evening, some engineers arrived at a party arranged by the locally employed cabin crew, armed with the pre requisite case of beer as an entrance fee. They were met at the door by a newly qualified wet behind the ears F/O who relieved them of their beer and told them 'politely' that they were not invited. As fine upstanding gentlemen, the Engineers left without fuss and went elsewhere.
Needless to say, the news of this event started to filter out over the next day or 2.
Fast forward 2 days and I am doing a turnround on one of the Aeroplanes, and the F/O is the very same newly qulaified wet behind the ears chappie. His Captain, was a young guy who had an Engineering background. So, we are all in the flight deck together, and the Captain says to the F/O, pointing at another Engineer doing a walkround next door, "See that Engineer down there? I want you to remember that one day you will need him more than you need the hole in your arse, so treat him and his friends with respect." Then, reaching into his Flight Bag and pulling out a burgundy document with gold embossed lettering that he places on the centre console the Capt says: "Furthermore, you need to know, that I AM ONE OF THEM TOO, so you give them the same respect you give me!"
The burgundy document was the Captain's UK CAA Aircraft Maint Engineers Licence (Sect L in them days). He had served an apprenticeship with a UK Airline and done a number of years on the connie circuit before becoming a pilot.
No further problems were experienced
One evening, some engineers arrived at a party arranged by the locally employed cabin crew, armed with the pre requisite case of beer as an entrance fee. They were met at the door by a newly qualified wet behind the ears F/O who relieved them of their beer and told them 'politely' that they were not invited. As fine upstanding gentlemen, the Engineers left without fuss and went elsewhere.
Needless to say, the news of this event started to filter out over the next day or 2.
Fast forward 2 days and I am doing a turnround on one of the Aeroplanes, and the F/O is the very same newly qulaified wet behind the ears chappie. His Captain, was a young guy who had an Engineering background. So, we are all in the flight deck together, and the Captain says to the F/O, pointing at another Engineer doing a walkround next door, "See that Engineer down there? I want you to remember that one day you will need him more than you need the hole in your arse, so treat him and his friends with respect." Then, reaching into his Flight Bag and pulling out a burgundy document with gold embossed lettering that he places on the centre console the Capt says: "Furthermore, you need to know, that I AM ONE OF THEM TOO, so you give them the same respect you give me!"
The burgundy document was the Captain's UK CAA Aircraft Maint Engineers Licence (Sect L in them days). He had served an apprenticeship with a UK Airline and done a number of years on the connie circuit before becoming a pilot.
No further problems were experienced
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Bottom line, it comes down to people skills in my oppinion. I head up on a blockout open the cockpit door and smile.... If I get a smile back we are co-workers, working together to fix what ever problem said flight crew has.
No smile or any attitude and I respond in the same manner any human being would.
I have seen generalized differences between large companies and smaller ones. I have had more personality conflicts with pilots who fly for large airlines. The greatest pilots I have worked with were at smaller companies that everyone was basically being treated like **** at or a few that I rode often as a "ride on" maintenance rep.
Had alot of respect for the Captain that turned around after the pre flight briefing if we did not know each other well and told me if I saw anything wrong not to hesitate to break the "sterile cockpit" rule.
At large airlines I have heard of flight crews warning jumpseating techs not to open the cockpit door because they are armed and will not hesitate to shoot.
What a difference in mentality.
No smile or any attitude and I respond in the same manner any human being would.
I have seen generalized differences between large companies and smaller ones. I have had more personality conflicts with pilots who fly for large airlines. The greatest pilots I have worked with were at smaller companies that everyone was basically being treated like **** at or a few that I rode often as a "ride on" maintenance rep.
Had alot of respect for the Captain that turned around after the pre flight briefing if we did not know each other well and told me if I saw anything wrong not to hesitate to break the "sterile cockpit" rule.
At large airlines I have heard of flight crews warning jumpseating techs not to open the cockpit door because they are armed and will not hesitate to shoot.
What a difference in mentality.
Coming at this from the other end - I wonder about some Engineers.
Not, by and large, maintenance engineers/technicians who in my experience have a pretty much universal interest in how their flying machines work and to a fair extent are operated (although probably never get as much chance to learn as they'd like).
But the graduate/chartered/"professional" engineer cadre who often have little or no grasp of the broader picture of how the aircraft is maintained and operated. Worse still, they very often don't seem to see this lack of knowledge as a problem.
In my opinion, this malaise starts in the universities who (not always, but often) are populated by people teaching who have only very narrow knowledge of stress/aerodynamics/whatever and think that because this is how they're allowed (and to a fair extent, encouraged) to function within a university, this is normal and healthy practice in a real engineer. So, they push out graduates who believe that they're doing their job properly by being as blinkered as possible - aerodynamicists don't need to understand structures and vice versa, and neither apparently need to know anything about how the aircraft is actually maintained and operated.
G
Not, by and large, maintenance engineers/technicians who in my experience have a pretty much universal interest in how their flying machines work and to a fair extent are operated (although probably never get as much chance to learn as they'd like).
But the graduate/chartered/"professional" engineer cadre who often have little or no grasp of the broader picture of how the aircraft is maintained and operated. Worse still, they very often don't seem to see this lack of knowledge as a problem.
In my opinion, this malaise starts in the universities who (not always, but often) are populated by people teaching who have only very narrow knowledge of stress/aerodynamics/whatever and think that because this is how they're allowed (and to a fair extent, encouraged) to function within a university, this is normal and healthy practice in a real engineer. So, they push out graduates who believe that they're doing their job properly by being as blinkered as possible - aerodynamicists don't need to understand structures and vice versa, and neither apparently need to know anything about how the aircraft is actually maintained and operated.
G
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Kingston university offer Aircraft Engineering as a three year Hon degree with the B1 licence. Many graduates are joining us and are excellent being both practical and technically knowledgeable. Employed as B1 or B2 they are very competent and enthusiastic and I feel that aircraft maintenance will have an even more professional workforce as a result.
I hold a B1 and an ATPL and both require a lot of study and hard work so in my opinion we are the same but British society does not agree with me and never will!
I hold a B1 and an ATPL and both require a lot of study and hard work so in my opinion we are the same but British society does not agree with me and never will!
