Pilots Attitude To Engineering
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: London nr EGKB
As a student pilot, I have a lot of respect for engineers - I can't say that engineering the aircraft is something that rocks my boat but the guys who maintain the a/c I train on are amazing > Its easy to see how long and hard they have worked to be as good as they are!
Pilots and engineers' should work and communicate hand in hand infact pilots should communicate with everyone they work with in a professional manor
Pilots and engineers' should work and communicate hand in hand infact pilots should communicate with everyone they work with in a professional manor
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: mobile
Who on earth would let a greenie go near an aircraft with a sharp object? Good God! I wouldn't let one slice bread.
As regards engineers and pilots, after 48 years in aviation I can honestly say that some of my best friends are pilots and engineers but would you let your daighter marry one ?
As regards engineers and pilots, after 48 years in aviation I can honestly say that some of my best friends are pilots and engineers but would you let your daighter marry one ?
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 236
Likes: 1
From: belgium
As engineer I saw and heard several things from pilots that really were not professional toward engineers. To the extend I really didn't bother fixing things properly for them. Fortunately, I changed habit in this by getting to know some pilots (I fly myself), and my view on it changed. Most pilots are good chaps but rotten apples exist, just leave them alone when they are in maintenance trouble.
On the other hand, the same goes for engineers. I've heard engineers telling the most incorrect things to pilots just to get the aircraft away. And I sometimes also am stunned by the technical knowledge some pilots have about underlying systems.
So indeed, work as a team
On the other hand, the same goes for engineers. I've heard engineers telling the most incorrect things to pilots just to get the aircraft away. And I sometimes also am stunned by the technical knowledge some pilots have about underlying systems.
So indeed, work as a team
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
From: The Deep South (Sussex)
I can still remember being a young RAF pilot and having it pointed out to me that you need "O" levels to be an officer and a pilot but "A" levels to make an airman in many engineering trades.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, USA
With Tongue Firmly in Cheek
The military is taking pilots out of the cockpit and making their aircraft automated, there are however no plans to do likewise with the maintenance of the same aircraft!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Utrecht, The Netherlands
I completely agree with all the posts about pilots needing engineers and vice versa, aviation is a team sport and people who don't understand that have no place in it in my honest opinion.
Also, Engineers make me laugh. At my company we have a lot to do with the engineers as the aircraft I fly are nearly (and some as) as old as I am. Usually they come up the stairs to ask us if the aircraft is good and if there weren't any major faults. As I know this I usually already say that directly after saying hello
Only last week it turned out I was mistaken...
Me: Hello! Aircraft is good!
Engineer: No it isn't...
Me: No really it's fine, no major problems (me thinking, engineer might have mixed up the aircraft)
Engineer: No really, it's f*cked
Me: Are you sure?
Engineer: Well.... it depends...
Me: On what...
Engineer: if you qualify a massive puddle of hydraulic fluid under the #1 engine and it still leaking out as no problem...
Me: *quiet and humbled again*
Also, Engineers make me laugh. At my company we have a lot to do with the engineers as the aircraft I fly are nearly (and some as) as old as I am. Usually they come up the stairs to ask us if the aircraft is good and if there weren't any major faults. As I know this I usually already say that directly after saying hello
Only last week it turned out I was mistaken...
Me: Hello! Aircraft is good!
Engineer: No it isn't...
Me: No really it's fine, no major problems (me thinking, engineer might have mixed up the aircraft)
Engineer: No really, it's f*cked
Me: Are you sure?
Engineer: Well.... it depends...
Me: On what...
Engineer: if you qualify a massive puddle of hydraulic fluid under the #1 engine and it still leaking out as no problem...
Me: *quiet and humbled again*
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,125
Likes: 7
From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
...if you're happy to take it we can one flight only it!'
Its OK Cap'n, it has three landings left.
(For those who don't understand, thats one landing at the destination, one for the return and a spare in case of diversion.)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,960
Likes: 17
From: Australia
Folks,
All this remind me of a long since retired BOAC/BA engineer, many years at Heathrow, always worked on contract customer's aircraft (was also a motorbike maniac, some of you may remember him) because he was so good at diplomatically handling "contract customer's crews".
He wasn't a bad AME, either.
Anyway, we arrived late one morning, having had a rudder defect in Bangkok, where BA's chaps swapped some boxes, and the defect "disappeared".
By Heathrow, now we had a another rudder defect.
On the ground, said chap, very patiently (as he always did) explained to the "engineeringly challenged Captain", ie; me, all about the defect, and what "they" had done wrong in Bangkok.
In the middle of the explanation, he realised that what he had said was a complete explanation of why what he had said could NOT be the "new" problem, and changed gears so smoothly in doing a 180, that even I was impressed. Not even a momentary pause in the flow of "explanation".
As a matter of interest, the real problem all along was not electrical/electronic/hydraulic, but a mechanical failure in a PCU, where they had never failed before, as I found out after a big delay 36 hours later.
Amazing what you find, when you get up and actually have a look. But it took an increasing less diplomatic Captain quite a while to convince "the chappies" that they were going to have to get the cherrypicker and have that look see.
Tootle pip!!
All this remind me of a long since retired BOAC/BA engineer, many years at Heathrow, always worked on contract customer's aircraft (was also a motorbike maniac, some of you may remember him) because he was so good at diplomatically handling "contract customer's crews".
He wasn't a bad AME, either.
Anyway, we arrived late one morning, having had a rudder defect in Bangkok, where BA's chaps swapped some boxes, and the defect "disappeared".
By Heathrow, now we had a another rudder defect.
On the ground, said chap, very patiently (as he always did) explained to the "engineeringly challenged Captain", ie; me, all about the defect, and what "they" had done wrong in Bangkok.
In the middle of the explanation, he realised that what he had said was a complete explanation of why what he had said could NOT be the "new" problem, and changed gears so smoothly in doing a 180, that even I was impressed. Not even a momentary pause in the flow of "explanation".
As a matter of interest, the real problem all along was not electrical/electronic/hydraulic, but a mechanical failure in a PCU, where they had never failed before, as I found out after a big delay 36 hours later.
Amazing what you find, when you get up and actually have a look. But it took an increasing less diplomatic Captain quite a while to convince "the chappies" that they were going to have to get the cherrypicker and have that look see.
Tootle pip!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 492
From: Europe
I dont want this to turn into a slagging match but I am interested in how much pilots actually know about how engineering is set up and the various levels of qualifications involved.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Somwhere with girls, wine and cars that shine..
Design Side
Design side of Engineering (Qualifications):
MINIMUM at entry-level career.
Engineer: Full-Time 3 Yrs Degree (or 3+x yrs part-time)
Pilot: Full-Time 1.5 Yrs practical flying and multiple choice box ticking.
'nuff said.
MINIMUM at entry-level career.
Engineer: Full-Time 3 Yrs Degree (or 3+x yrs part-time)
Pilot: Full-Time 1.5 Yrs practical flying and multiple choice box ticking.
'nuff said.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
As the owner of a PA18 that lives a hard life as a glider tug, we could not go very far without the TLC of my engineer, a man of great experience, incredible ingenuity, absolute integrity, and all the engineering qualifications.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 236
Likes: 1
From: belgium
Faz1989, I meant that their comments made me feel bad at that time, not that I would have send an unsafe airplane in the air. Pwew, I hope I saved my day here. Sometimes difficult to express yourself in a foreign language.
