'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
[QUOTE=Sunfish] British Airways, one of the three European airlines servicing Australia /QUOTE]
That's it: 3 ???
1) BA
2) Virgin
3) Austrian
I did some research and was pretty amazed that only 3 Europeans flew down under, and even more so that one of them was OS !
That's it: 3 ???
1) BA
2) Virgin
3) Austrian
I did some research and was pretty amazed that only 3 Europeans flew down under, and even more so that one of them was OS !
Pilots' Pal
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
A few key Human Factors:
Latent error - can be a management policy or decision made before an incident (and separated in time and space from the active environment).
Latent error - can also be a technical problem or practice waiting to happen and, when combined with an active error, could form the incident or accident chain.
Active error - that having a (perhaps relatively) immediate effect.
Engineers, like those in other walks of life, are subject to a variety human issues.
Violations can be broken down as:
Routine - we've always done it this way (norms and complacency)
Situational - we are forced to do it this way (lack of resources, tooling, time etc)
Optimising - violating for kicks (rare)
With the exception of the latter, all these factors seem to have been present in this incident.
It could happen to any of us.
Latent error - can be a management policy or decision made before an incident (and separated in time and space from the active environment).
Latent error - can also be a technical problem or practice waiting to happen and, when combined with an active error, could form the incident or accident chain.
Active error - that having a (perhaps relatively) immediate effect.
Engineers, like those in other walks of life, are subject to a variety human issues.
Violations can be broken down as:
Routine - we've always done it this way (norms and complacency)
Situational - we are forced to do it this way (lack of resources, tooling, time etc)
Optimising - violating for kicks (rare)
With the exception of the latter, all these factors seem to have been present in this incident.
It could happen to any of us.
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
The Sunday Times
The Sunday Times January 08, 2006
Safety in the skies
The Association of Licensed Aircraft Engineers (ALAE) was not at all surprised by your excellent article (Watchdog slams BA’s air safety, Insight, News, last week).
Your statement: “BA employs 6,000 engineers, compared with 9,500 in 1995 but its fleet remains at a similar size as 10 years ago” hides some shocking truths.
Our figures show that only about a third of the 6,000 engineers employed by British Airways are in fact fully qualified licenced aircraft engineers.
The aviation industry has seen the numbers of licenced engineers dwindle from 24,000 in 1979 to 12,000 today.
Yet during the same period, aircraft numbers have more than doubled. BA, like other airlines, is under financial pressure and staffing levels are stretched.
BA operates a policy that involves the licenced engineer only appearing at an aircraft if requested to do so. Something that was unheard of in the past.
Even pre-flight inspections, the last line of defence in uncovering anything untoward, has been taken away from the licenced engineer. The Australians refused to accept such a policy on the basis that it clearly affects safety.
Robert Alway
ALAE, Bagshot, Surrey
Any coments, is it just BA ?
The Sunday Times January 08, 2006
Safety in the skies
The Association of Licensed Aircraft Engineers (ALAE) was not at all surprised by your excellent article (Watchdog slams BA’s air safety, Insight, News, last week).
Your statement: “BA employs 6,000 engineers, compared with 9,500 in 1995 but its fleet remains at a similar size as 10 years ago” hides some shocking truths.
Our figures show that only about a third of the 6,000 engineers employed by British Airways are in fact fully qualified licenced aircraft engineers.
The aviation industry has seen the numbers of licenced engineers dwindle from 24,000 in 1979 to 12,000 today.
Yet during the same period, aircraft numbers have more than doubled. BA, like other airlines, is under financial pressure and staffing levels are stretched.
BA operates a policy that involves the licenced engineer only appearing at an aircraft if requested to do so. Something that was unheard of in the past.
Even pre-flight inspections, the last line of defence in uncovering anything untoward, has been taken away from the licenced engineer. The Australians refused to accept such a policy on the basis that it clearly affects safety.
Robert Alway
ALAE, Bagshot, Surrey
Any coments, is it just BA ?
Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
At work I deal with several Maintenance providers, both in the U.K. and Overseas. Subjectivly, it seems to me that this is a widespread problem, certainly not confined to B.A. but conversely not an overall problem. Notably those employers that have a reputation for good employee relations seem to have enough staff - strange isn't it ?
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
I wonder how old Mr Always numbers are?
JAR 66 has brought about many more licenced engineers within BA.
Worthy of note is that not all of our engineers work on aircraft, but have workshop qualifications.
For many years BA maintained their aircraft on there own maintenance schedule (approved by the manufacturer and CAA). They have now almost fully switched over to MPD.
Not surprising then that the load v capacity ratio has changed quite dramatically over recent months.
B73.
JAR 66 has brought about many more licenced engineers within BA.
Worthy of note is that not all of our engineers work on aircraft, but have workshop qualifications.
For many years BA maintained their aircraft on there own maintenance schedule (approved by the manufacturer and CAA). They have now almost fully switched over to MPD.
Not surprising then that the load v capacity ratio has changed quite dramatically over recent months.
B73.
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
Originally Posted by BOAC73
I wonder how old Mr Always numbers are?
JAR 66 has brought about many more licenced engineers within BA.
Worthy of note is that not all of our engineers work on aircraft, but have workshop qualifications.
For many years BA maintained their aircraft on there own maintenance schedule (approved by the manufacturer and CAA). They have now almost fully switched over to MPD.
Not surprising then that the load v capacity ratio has changed quite dramatically over recent months.
B73.
JAR 66 has brought about many more licenced engineers within BA.
Worthy of note is that not all of our engineers work on aircraft, but have workshop qualifications.
For many years BA maintained their aircraft on there own maintenance schedule (approved by the manufacturer and CAA). They have now almost fully switched over to MPD.
Not surprising then that the load v capacity ratio has changed quite dramatically over recent months.
B73.
Cunning Artificer
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
The aviation industry has seen the numbers of licenced engineers dwindle from 24,000 in 1979 to 12,000 today.
The situation is quite serious enough without exaggerating the numbers though...
Pilots' Pal
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Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
Blacksheep - it is indeed serious. I have included this in current Human Factors training.
What was a Cat A certifier doing using his authorisation in base maintenance?
What was a Cat A certifier doing using his authorisation in base maintenance?
Re: 'Scathing' report on BA Maintenance practices
It seems that BA's big idea to reduce maintenance errors is to give the LAEs a name change to ..... wait for it....
SUPERVISOR!
Also, they think the best way to improve standards is to remove the supervisor from the hangar floor by giving him more clerical and administrative duties such as monitoring absence and carrying out disiplinary processes AND be responsible for investigating maint errors by his peers!
Can't wait for that one.
Dear self, buggered up last weeks A check. Don't do it again.
Sincerley,
Self.
SUPERVISOR!
Also, they think the best way to improve standards is to remove the supervisor from the hangar floor by giving him more clerical and administrative duties such as monitoring absence and carrying out disiplinary processes AND be responsible for investigating maint errors by his peers!
Can't wait for that one.
Dear self, buggered up last weeks A check. Don't do it again.
Sincerley,
Self.
Thought police antagonist
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Originally Posted by TURIN
It seems that BA's big idea to reduce maintenance errors is to give the LAEs a name change to ..... wait for it....
Nothing original there then----delete Windscale / insert Sellafield
SUPERVISOR!
Also, they think the best way to improve standards is to remove the supervisor from the hangar floor by giving him more clerical and administrative duties such as monitoring absence and carrying out disiplinary processes AND be responsible for investigating maint errors by his peers!
Self.
Nothing original there then----delete Windscale / insert Sellafield
SUPERVISOR!
Also, they think the best way to improve standards is to remove the supervisor from the hangar floor by giving him more clerical and administrative duties such as monitoring absence and carrying out disiplinary processes AND be responsible for investigating maint errors by his peers!
Self.
One more silly question please. I always understood that BA already had this capacity in the form of the TMG grade ? If so, other than their attendance to achieve their KPI's ( Line maint excluded here please note as these guys are both productive and supervisory through necessity ) what exactly is their new function to be ?
Last edited by Krystal n chips; 6th Feb 2006 at 16:52.
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LAME Numbers
Don't know if anyone has considered how many 'actual' LAME's there are back there residing in blighty. By that I mean B1/B2 certifiers. Since going expat I have found all the other nationalities have UK CAA LAME licenses in addition their own countries. Malaysian, Pakistani, Indian, Arab etc. For instance a Sudanese friend who is A+C also has full avionics including compass.So although I have previously seen how many LAMES have been issued by the CAA as far as I know it includes all the guy's from other countries and Airlines. Is the picture back in the UK distorted then? Anyone?
As I understand it flight deck and Cabin crew numbers/working hours are legislated by law and Insurance matters. I'm sure I can be corrected by someone with better intel. Engineers only enter the equation with airline insurance costs. That I do know for sure as a horses mouth inadvertantly told me a few years ago and it makes perfect sense.
Insurers require 'X' amount of UK CAA or other equivalents, (Aussies/New Zealanders, South Africans), for their insurance costs to be kept at a reasonable level.
I don't know how many guys are still in position in BA but I do know from personnal experience LGW BA ramp operation. And from people around me here, I have been told just how chaotic big checks can be at the worlds Worst Airline.
From reading this thread it is possible to make out people who do not really know what it is like trying to keep an airline safely to shedule in todays typically under resoursed world of aircraft maintenance. So I really did like the comment about the Smart German infiltrators with the WW2 GI's....Nice one matie!
As I understand it flight deck and Cabin crew numbers/working hours are legislated by law and Insurance matters. I'm sure I can be corrected by someone with better intel. Engineers only enter the equation with airline insurance costs. That I do know for sure as a horses mouth inadvertantly told me a few years ago and it makes perfect sense.
Insurers require 'X' amount of UK CAA or other equivalents, (Aussies/New Zealanders, South Africans), for their insurance costs to be kept at a reasonable level.
I don't know how many guys are still in position in BA but I do know from personnal experience LGW BA ramp operation. And from people around me here, I have been told just how chaotic big checks can be at the worlds Worst Airline.
From reading this thread it is possible to make out people who do not really know what it is like trying to keep an airline safely to shedule in todays typically under resoursed world of aircraft maintenance. So I really did like the comment about the Smart German infiltrators with the WW2 GI's....Nice one matie!
