money
Join Date: Apr 2001
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for a pretty good idea of whats going on in the US aviation business check out www.the-mechanic.com go to the main bulletin board and see for your-selves!!!
Join Date: Feb 2001
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The only way many engineers manage to take home a decent wage is to work excessive amounts of overtime on a regular basis. If our working hours were regulated, like the aircrew, companies would have to employ more licensed engineers which are generally in short supply. As you know this would then force up wages in an effort to retain people, resulting in better wages for less hours worked, better quality of life and above all improved safety. What do you think?
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Join Date: May 2001
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Blacksheep
sorry to upset your delicate sensibilities but you were not the type of desk driver I was refering to.I was,in general,refering to the unqualified support staff that have no responsibility but are regarded as more useful by management.
I'm sure you are hugely qualified and hugely experienced but the "so there" was unnecessary
sorry to upset your delicate sensibilities but you were not the type of desk driver I was refering to.I was,in general,refering to the unqualified support staff that have no responsibility but are regarded as more useful by management.
I'm sure you are hugely qualified and hugely experienced but the "so there" was unnecessary
Join Date: Jun 2001
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My feeling is that everbody getting 'section L licenses' in trades that they 'are not totally familliar' is not going to help the struggle, all of a sudden a shortage of avionic engineers is going to be a thing of the past, the figures of people holding the ticket will appear in the stat's and there will still be a shortage of well trained trade engineers, but a queue of people that can sign for the stuff!!!, I am a A+C and didn't take it on the priciple of thats a different trade one I will never feel confident to carry out purely from reading the Pallet book and a lot of past questions, and anybody that doesn't think the boundaries of what you can sign for isn't going to be extended is sadly mistaken, will there be any more dosh forthcoming.....the cheque will be in the post no doubt. Call me a mug but I would rather wait and let it settle and review the new system when they make up there mind. 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Firkin L, you are of course right in theory about regulating hours worked. Where I work this regulation supposedly exists, but in reality, if a manager wants excessive O/T from 'selected' engineers, he simply fiddles the system to suit. The engineer is'nt going to complain cos he's getting lots of dosh at the expense of everyone else. The rest of us don't complain because nobody is listening anymore.
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Time is right for a pay hike. Hear that pilots are considering forming an alliance for pay negotiations based on the alliances formed by the airlines (eg one world etc). Starting point for negotiations would be highest rate currently paid within the alliance, with raises based upon that. Have stated that if alliances can work in interest of the airline companies they can also work in the interest of the employees also (never forget that the guy at the top of most airlines is also normally an employee and doesnt own the company!!)
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Firkin L,
I AGREE WITH YOU IN PRINCIPLE BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT 'CAPPING' WORKING HOURS IS GOING TO DO TO YOUR EMPLOYER? IT MAY FORCE UP WAGES BUT IT WILL ALSO HIKE UP THE OVERALL OPERATING COSTS OF THE COMPANY I.E EMPLOYING EXTRA MANPOWER TO COVER THE SHIFTS / WORK THAT CANNOT BE COMPLETED, AS THE STAFF HAVE EXCEEDED THEIR 40 HOURS AND NOBODY IS LEFT TO FINISH THE CHECK.
IN REALITY, DUE TO THE JAR66 BALLS UP I THINK THAT EMPLOYING ENGINEERS MAY BECOME EVEN CHEAPER FOR A COMPANY. WHY? BECAUSE SOME OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ENGINEERS WHO I FEEL DO NOT HAVE THE SAME TECHNICAL EXPERTISE OR OVERALL ABILITIES OF THE ORIGINAL CAA / BCAR LICENSED ENGINEERS, WILL INFLUX THE MAINLAND UK ANSD SWAMP THE AIRLINE MARKET. I SAY THIS BECAUSE I FEEL THAT FOR SO LONG WE HAVE BEEN PUT TO THE TEST ON OUR LICENSE EXAMINATIONS AND TO BE COMPROMISED BY WHAT I FEEL IS LESS ADEQUATELY TRAINED ENGINEERS IS A LITTLE INSULTING, ESPECIALLY WHEN SOME OF THEM ARE ALLREADY OFFERING THEIR SERVICES FOR LESS MONEY.
I AGREE WITH YOU IN PRINCIPLE BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT 'CAPPING' WORKING HOURS IS GOING TO DO TO YOUR EMPLOYER? IT MAY FORCE UP WAGES BUT IT WILL ALSO HIKE UP THE OVERALL OPERATING COSTS OF THE COMPANY I.E EMPLOYING EXTRA MANPOWER TO COVER THE SHIFTS / WORK THAT CANNOT BE COMPLETED, AS THE STAFF HAVE EXCEEDED THEIR 40 HOURS AND NOBODY IS LEFT TO FINISH THE CHECK.
IN REALITY, DUE TO THE JAR66 BALLS UP I THINK THAT EMPLOYING ENGINEERS MAY BECOME EVEN CHEAPER FOR A COMPANY. WHY? BECAUSE SOME OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ENGINEERS WHO I FEEL DO NOT HAVE THE SAME TECHNICAL EXPERTISE OR OVERALL ABILITIES OF THE ORIGINAL CAA / BCAR LICENSED ENGINEERS, WILL INFLUX THE MAINLAND UK ANSD SWAMP THE AIRLINE MARKET. I SAY THIS BECAUSE I FEEL THAT FOR SO LONG WE HAVE BEEN PUT TO THE TEST ON OUR LICENSE EXAMINATIONS AND TO BE COMPROMISED BY WHAT I FEEL IS LESS ADEQUATELY TRAINED ENGINEERS IS A LITTLE INSULTING, ESPECIALLY WHEN SOME OF THEM ARE ALLREADY OFFERING THEIR SERVICES FOR LESS MONEY.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I was wondering when the first "we are better than you lot" post would get here.
I guess the waiting is over.
I saw you also had a go at those "Europeans" on the JAR 66 thread.
You want ketchup with that chip?.
I guess the waiting is over.
I saw you also had a go at those "Europeans" on the JAR 66 thread.
You want ketchup with that chip?.
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TECHMAN,
IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF WHO'S BETTER THAN WHO, ANYONE IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THEIR LAST F!*# UP! IT WAS A RESPONSE TO A QUESTION OF MONEY AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE ALREADY EXPERIENCING A TIDE OF ENGINEERS OFFERING THE SAME LEVEL OF EXPERTISE WITH A LOWER PRICE TAG. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE MONEY ISSUE WILL EVER BE PROPERLY RECOGNISED BY PERMANENT EMPLOYERS WHILST THERE IS A BARGAIN BASEMENT OF PEOPLE WANTING JOBS.
IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF WHO'S BETTER THAN WHO, ANYONE IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THEIR LAST F!*# UP! IT WAS A RESPONSE TO A QUESTION OF MONEY AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE ALREADY EXPERIENCING A TIDE OF ENGINEERS OFFERING THE SAME LEVEL OF EXPERTISE WITH A LOWER PRICE TAG. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE MONEY ISSUE WILL EVER BE PROPERLY RECOGNISED BY PERMANENT EMPLOYERS WHILST THERE IS A BARGAIN BASEMENT OF PEOPLE WANTING JOBS.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I agree,I think we all need to make a stand not just on pay but also working condition,engineer licensing,training and bring aircraft engineering in to the 21 centry.The only way this will happen is by us all working together.A good start would be to join a union like the ALAE.So now we have started to talk about it,what next?
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i'm with FNQTech on this one. i was involved in some industrial action issues at manchester back in the early 80's and beleive me id did no good for morale or pay. thetre was no substantial gains made out of it and more importantly the enginers only did it in fear of upsetting their mates if they didn't.
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Pen it Off,
Ifyou are so F&/&%G intelligent, you would have nothing to fear from us "europeans".
As for your comment about the "Tide" of JAR66 licenses invading your shores offering their services cheaper than you, I can inform you that I have been excluded from plenty of work in places that operated under CAA rules on the grounds that they could not endorse a Non CAA(Irish/English/Oz or Kiwi) license.
Currently I am working with 3 English contractors here in sweden, they are paid 24£ stg, I belive the current rate is about 28-30 £ stg, so who is undercutting who ?.
I am disapointed that I took the time to answer your post, but this is exactly the type of side_tracking BS that I wrote about in my first post, why don´t you join the JAR66 bandwagon, YOU should have no problems passing the exams, and then all of europe, if not the world lay at your feet.
Brgds
Doc
Ifyou are so F&/&%G intelligent, you would have nothing to fear from us "europeans".
As for your comment about the "Tide" of JAR66 licenses invading your shores offering their services cheaper than you, I can inform you that I have been excluded from plenty of work in places that operated under CAA rules on the grounds that they could not endorse a Non CAA(Irish/English/Oz or Kiwi) license.
Currently I am working with 3 English contractors here in sweden, they are paid 24£ stg, I belive the current rate is about 28-30 £ stg, so who is undercutting who ?.
I am disapointed that I took the time to answer your post, but this is exactly the type of side_tracking BS that I wrote about in my first post, why don´t you join the JAR66 bandwagon, YOU should have no problems passing the exams, and then all of europe, if not the world lay at your feet.
Brgds
Doc
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Hmmm.... I thought it was only us in Oz that have a problem with Cashola. It is sad to now know that the problem is worldwide. I think I might chuck the lot in and become a plumber......
Oh, and by the way, 146-Fixer, may I suggest that to improve your personal 'Working Conditions' that you keep away from those mongrel things they call a '146'!
(At least you will hold onto your sanity a while longer!)
Cheers!
Oh, and by the way, 146-Fixer, may I suggest that to improve your personal 'Working Conditions' that you keep away from those mongrel things they call a '146'!
(At least you will hold onto your sanity a while longer!)
Cheers!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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In order to increase our remuneration, we need to increase awareness of our status as professional engineers. We also need an organisation that has the teeth to back us. Whilst the ALAE are well intentioned and understand us because they are after all LAMEs, they do not appear to have the ability to create a major impact to the status quo. I am in a union that is v. big. They can ball about brotherhood and yours fraternally but they are not aware of the importance, credibility and eithos of what it means to be a LAME. But they do have teeth. So what are we left to choose?
An element of solidarity and accountability is required. Unfortunately, and this is not unique to our profession, there are varying grades of people out there; some are dubious characters that have fumbled through (good at taking exams, zero practical ability) and some might say even worse are those that do have the knowledge but write their own MM/MEL/SPM/WSPM/ANO.... and will dispatch an a/c without looking at it. We've also got the jobsworth who wants to do a C chk on a turnround. You all know what I'm talking about. Consistency.
And the problem is is that as a profession until we have consistency we will always we be equated to car mechanics. There is a moral responsibility of the CAA (and other NAAs) to make sure that we are promoted as professionals not only within the industry but also outside. We need to be treated as professionals, we need to behave as professionals and then we may be understood to be professionals. There can't be many industries where it's people cost so many £1000s to train and continually train and yet are looked down upon as disposable rubbish.
Finally, allow me to bring to your attention a news item from the BBC last year relating to the shortage of LAMEs. (Please use the link below). Has your position changed since then? I doubt it.
BK
BBC News Online-Aircraft Engineer Shortage
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: balti king ]
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: balti king ]
An element of solidarity and accountability is required. Unfortunately, and this is not unique to our profession, there are varying grades of people out there; some are dubious characters that have fumbled through (good at taking exams, zero practical ability) and some might say even worse are those that do have the knowledge but write their own MM/MEL/SPM/WSPM/ANO.... and will dispatch an a/c without looking at it. We've also got the jobsworth who wants to do a C chk on a turnround. You all know what I'm talking about. Consistency.
And the problem is is that as a profession until we have consistency we will always we be equated to car mechanics. There is a moral responsibility of the CAA (and other NAAs) to make sure that we are promoted as professionals not only within the industry but also outside. We need to be treated as professionals, we need to behave as professionals and then we may be understood to be professionals. There can't be many industries where it's people cost so many £1000s to train and continually train and yet are looked down upon as disposable rubbish.
Finally, allow me to bring to your attention a news item from the BBC last year relating to the shortage of LAMEs. (Please use the link below). Has your position changed since then? I doubt it.
BK
BBC News Online-Aircraft Engineer Shortage
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: balti king ]
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: balti king ]
Join Date: Dec 2000
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there are varying grades of people out there; some are dubious characters that have fumbled through (good at taking exams, zero practical ability) and some might say even worse are those that do have the knowledge but write their own MM/MEL/SPM/WSPM/ANO.... and will dispatch an a/c without looking at it. We've also got the jobsworth who wants to do a C chk on a turnround
You are correct Balti , we're still not being paid more than pilots.
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Sorry to plug, but I have read your comments here and would say that knowledge is your best ally when considering what else is out there.
At http://www.aviationjobsearch.com we currently get so many applications from pilots/first officers and flight crew, but although there are nearly 4 times as many engineering positions on the site - much less get applied for although to my mind many seem to be well paid and are also based worldwide.....so have a look and subscribe to the email job alert if you don't find what you are looking for straight away or even register your Cv online......free of course
http://www.aviationjobsearch.com
At http://www.aviationjobsearch.com we currently get so many applications from pilots/first officers and flight crew, but although there are nearly 4 times as many engineering positions on the site - much less get applied for although to my mind many seem to be well paid and are also based worldwide.....so have a look and subscribe to the email job alert if you don't find what you are looking for straight away or even register your Cv online......free of course
http://www.aviationjobsearch.com
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Just checked out that BBC link above. Can anyone tell us which airlines are paying their engineers more then the pilots? Since they are so short I'll consider working for them.
100,000 a year. Two months holiday. Carpets, pot plants, fish tank and waitress service in the crew room. Hot baths and massage in the locker room. Oh, nearly forgot - First Class travel and the wife can accompany me on duty trips overseas. That will even the score a bit; although a company Beemer might be an added attraction not many of the two-winged master race aspire to those apart from the management tweeties that is. Any HR managers reading this just pop me a line at the e-mail address in my profile and join the queue. I'll get round to your application within a week or two...
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Through difficulties to the cinema
100,000 a year. Two months holiday. Carpets, pot plants, fish tank and waitress service in the crew room. Hot baths and massage in the locker room. Oh, nearly forgot - First Class travel and the wife can accompany me on duty trips overseas. That will even the score a bit; although a company Beemer might be an added attraction not many of the two-winged master race aspire to those apart from the management tweeties that is. Any HR managers reading this just pop me a line at the e-mail address in my profile and join the queue. I'll get round to your application within a week or two...
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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My advice,
Sell out, go and work for an oil company as an auditor.
Twice the money no hassle.
Why answer the b******t questions when you can ask them.
The CAA is not a bad scam either, resign after a few years and if you can afford it, JAR66 B1, B2 B whatever is yours and name your price.
Not sure about FAA but I'm sure Mickey will help.
Keep drinking heavily.
Sell out, go and work for an oil company as an auditor.
Twice the money no hassle.
Why answer the b******t questions when you can ask them.
The CAA is not a bad scam either, resign after a few years and if you can afford it, JAR66 B1, B2 B whatever is yours and name your price.
Not sure about FAA but I'm sure Mickey will help.
Keep drinking heavily.
