What If
Guest
Posts: n/a
What If
Good morning from the grey overcast UK
What are the thoughts of other's , If you discover a so called proffessional company with whom you have had a fair relationship , (and still have that relationship) but you discover that things are not quite right, Ie corners being cut, slight risks being taken, untruths being found out, misleading explanations being given, and yet the people who are the foot soldiers are really good at their particular job, and honest, but the problem is with the top flite managers/owners
how do you blow the whistle without making enemies of good friends, and possibly putting those folk out of work ?
Yet with knowledge of problems discovered you feel that other persons safety is in a compromise situation.
What are the thoughts of other's , If you discover a so called proffessional company with whom you have had a fair relationship , (and still have that relationship) but you discover that things are not quite right, Ie corners being cut, slight risks being taken, untruths being found out, misleading explanations being given, and yet the people who are the foot soldiers are really good at their particular job, and honest, but the problem is with the top flite managers/owners
how do you blow the whistle without making enemies of good friends, and possibly putting those folk out of work ?
Yet with knowledge of problems discovered you feel that other persons safety is in a compromise situation.
Guest
Posts: n/a
You have no choice.
Railtrack is a good example of the result of cutbacks.
Do you want to be part of an incident that has just killed 400 passengers?
As suggested, use CHIRP or contact the CAA directly.
I've seen the results of a full blown CAA investigation I still smile to think of managers digging holes for themselves!.
Good luck mate, I'd do it and do it NOW
Railtrack is a good example of the result of cutbacks.
Do you want to be part of an incident that has just killed 400 passengers?
As suggested, use CHIRP or contact the CAA directly.
I've seen the results of a full blown CAA investigation I still smile to think of managers digging holes for themselves!.
Good luck mate, I'd do it and do it NOW
Guest
Posts: n/a
VFR pilot I can relate to your dilemma. There is a fine line when considering what corners can be cut, any time safety protocol is compromised there is an ethical obligation that all aviation professionals have to report these types of conditions. Here in the states we are blessed with a vehicle for this type of reporting that protects the individual reporting the incident. The Aviation Safety Reporting System which utilizes NASA as a third party between the individual and the FAA; NASA receives and administers the forms allowing for anominity to the FAA and the alleged violators as to who actually reported the violation. Yet still an investigation will take place if the circumstances warrant it.My sugestion is to contact the local authorities or even an aviation attorney to look at all of your options.Be advised by not reporting you are in fact a party to the act and could be liable in the event of an Aircraft failure resulting in injuries or death.The website below may give you some guidance. Good luck.
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/immunity.htm#1
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/immunity.htm#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
I reckon that after about 30 years on the ramp, you might just about have a fighting chance of keeping your head above the stinking waters of indifference. Cast your minds back, remember the Comet boys, this will thrust the UK into untoward Internationally unknown technology, and where are we now, Boeing 777's , B744's A330's, A320's Et al. all fly by wire I might add. did our basic training manange to encompass such a quantum leap in technology as this, I think not! As you consider accepting the offer from Tesco's to fill their shelves for 45p an hour, just reflect on how your technoligical lives have advanced over the years. As Dodgy Dave rightly says, the only way to keep ahead is 2 Cross pens, a Leatherman and plenty of Bull@#*t ! Keep on trucking boyz !
Guest
Posts: n/a
If they are good friends then why are they doing it? If it is the management putting unreasonable pressure to cut corners then there has to be corporate culpability. If your family were to book a flight on one of these tomorrow would you let them go, I think not, then friends or not you must take it higher.
Guest
Posts: n/a
VFR, I think you've probably just described the majority of organisations I've ever come in contact with...the trick is to determine exactly when this crosses the line of unacceptability. Everyone has their own (and valid)discriminator and when I found mine I thought hard and finally jumped off the ship. Most ships have muck in the bilges but that doesn't mean it's right. If I'd thought I could have made a difference I might have stayed but like most folks, I have a family to feed too, so my action could I suppose be described as the chicken's way out 
Notwithstanding all of that, I agree with Aeroguru, NFF & Spanners, (cut corners = dead people) so anything which genuinely does help correct things must shurely be right, but it's hard to know if all you'll achieve is friends on the heap whilst the real culprits just shuffle about a bit and end up doing the same again somewhere/sometime else.
Compared to the day-to-day life and death decisions we all make this one's a real dilly...best of luck whichever way you go
------------------
Ground tested, no fault found
[This message has been edited by Coriolis (edited 28 March 2001).]
Notwithstanding all of that, I agree with Aeroguru, NFF & Spanners, (cut corners = dead people) so anything which genuinely does help correct things must shurely be right, but it's hard to know if all you'll achieve is friends on the heap whilst the real culprits just shuffle about a bit and end up doing the same again somewhere/sometime else.Compared to the day-to-day life and death decisions we all make this one's a real dilly...best of luck whichever way you go
------------------
Ground tested, no fault found
[This message has been edited by Coriolis (edited 28 March 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
VFR Pilot
xperience has shown that even if you do report this type of incident through the proper channels, the end result is likeley to be so mild as to be ineffective. You are unlikely to see the culprit(s) made an example of. Typical answers are 'procedures have been put in place' or 'staff have been made aware that this is not acceptable'. It does'nt exactly get the cowboy's quaking in their boots. Worse still the offending Manager is still in place, and may wish to teach you a lesson.
Furthermore, when you look at the question banks for the H.F. exam modules, there is nothing there to help you make a decision on how to handle this type of situation without it putting you at risk from recrimination.
Just compare how frequently you see maintenance violations occuring around you against how many AMEL's are revoked.
Another problem facing you could be lack of evidence..can you prove your case 100%?
As for the ones who lay the guilt trip on you by saying doing nothing makes YOU guilty, I'm sure everyone else is likely to be turning a blind eye too.
I despise these unconvicted criminals as much as you probably do, but when you weigh up the chances of succesfuly rendering them unable to cut corners, you have to think very carefully. If you go for it...good luck and I hope you start a trend.
xperience has shown that even if you do report this type of incident through the proper channels, the end result is likeley to be so mild as to be ineffective. You are unlikely to see the culprit(s) made an example of. Typical answers are 'procedures have been put in place' or 'staff have been made aware that this is not acceptable'. It does'nt exactly get the cowboy's quaking in their boots. Worse still the offending Manager is still in place, and may wish to teach you a lesson.Furthermore, when you look at the question banks for the H.F. exam modules, there is nothing there to help you make a decision on how to handle this type of situation without it putting you at risk from recrimination.
Just compare how frequently you see maintenance violations occuring around you against how many AMEL's are revoked.
Another problem facing you could be lack of evidence..can you prove your case 100%?
As for the ones who lay the guilt trip on you by saying doing nothing makes YOU guilty, I'm sure everyone else is likely to be turning a blind eye too.
I despise these unconvicted criminals as much as you probably do, but when you weigh up the chances of succesfuly rendering them unable to cut corners, you have to think very carefully. If you go for it...good luck and I hope you start a trend.
Guest
Posts: n/a
There is a CHIRP report form for download at www.airmech.co.uk if you cannot track one down by other means.
Regards
[email protected]
Regards
[email protected]
