Engineers Salary
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Now one thing that's guaranteed to raise salaries is the old 'Supply and Demand' situation.
Sadly, tho', the cyclical nature of the airline business means that every ten years or so we experience a downturn. All of a sudden who needs flippin' engineers anymore?
By the time things are on the up again, there is enough of a pool to fill the need - then, just as it looks as though there may be a skills shortage, along comes the next dip......
Just my two cents' worth, what say the rest of you?
Sadly, tho', the cyclical nature of the airline business means that every ten years or so we experience a downturn. All of a sudden who needs flippin' engineers anymore?
By the time things are on the up again, there is enough of a pool to fill the need - then, just as it looks as though there may be a skills shortage, along comes the next dip......
Just my two cents' worth, what say the rest of you?
Cunning Artificer
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Bovine Excrement
So, now we've identified what's wrong at Bloody Awful / Big Airlines then ASFKAP. In my days there graduates still had to do time as 'Greenies' then work the shop floor for at least five years before they moved on through Development Engineering and beyond to management positions.
You're right, I've been out of the country for far too long but I haven't been able to find anyone willing to pay an experienced Avionics LAE the minimum of 36 thousand after tax that I would need to maintain my standard of living. [In fact, spanners, my interview experiences tend to validate the AirMech survey results as accurate]. I acknowledge that some 'Grabbers' may be ghosting an extra few thousand but I don't believe in working overtime just to meet my normal outgoings. Overtime is for extras like a third 4x4 for the housemaid.
No, I didn't work on Concorde Majors, I was one of the cavemen who worked in the adjacent bays back in the days of Tech Block B. One of Frank Hood's night time Boeing 707 worshippers.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
You're right, I've been out of the country for far too long but I haven't been able to find anyone willing to pay an experienced Avionics LAE the minimum of 36 thousand after tax that I would need to maintain my standard of living. [In fact, spanners, my interview experiences tend to validate the AirMech survey results as accurate]. I acknowledge that some 'Grabbers' may be ghosting an extra few thousand but I don't believe in working overtime just to meet my normal outgoings. Overtime is for extras like a third 4x4 for the housemaid.
No, I didn't work on Concorde Majors, I was one of the cavemen who worked in the adjacent bays back in the days of Tech Block B. One of Frank Hood's night time Boeing 707 worshippers.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Blacksheep,
Couple of points to make here.
One,I also did a while with Big Airways and found the situation of that having a degree was a very rapid way of advancement.It was just a shame that the degree holding whizzkids didn't have a clue what they were talking about or doing by and large.Thus this rendered them pretty ineffective in the field of aircraft maintenance,which was our primary function at the time.It also meant that they were not very cost effective by virtue of the fact stated above.
But the company would rather have a vast number of ineffective expensive graduates on there payroll than invest in training to overcome the shortage of licensed engineers to allow there operations to be conducted with a modicum of safety. If allowed they would happily do away with all licensed engineers if they could and probably will soon be issuing all degree holder a JAR66 "c" licence as a way of saving valuble resourses (i.e money).
At this point the situation will become comical.
A question I was asked at a production meeting by a highly qualified graduate engineer in charge progress of our aircraft on its C check was :-
"From the previous shift meeting handover/report (late shift the previous day) we can assume that all flap functions will be started today as per the flow chart and this will be your teams responsibility?"
I asked "Have you surveyed the aircraft on the other side of the door here,the one in the hangar?"
His answer was " Yes,why?"
"Because if you have then you will surely have noticed that the trailing edge flaps are not yet fitted to the aircraft, they are the long thingys on the trestles and my guess is that to function them we would be advised to fit them first wouldn't we?"
At this point the meeting was concluded and the chap was given a guided tour of the aircraft in bits.His comment was that on his flow chart productivity invested was showing that the aircraft was nearing completion. :- OOPS
This was not an isolated incident its a shame to say!
Point two,
Want to look at my pay slip,its a lot more than 36k?
Ps. Wheres Ghengis?
He's normally got a point or ten to make when these posts are about or has he taken early redundency?
Couple of points to make here.
One,I also did a while with Big Airways and found the situation of that having a degree was a very rapid way of advancement.It was just a shame that the degree holding whizzkids didn't have a clue what they were talking about or doing by and large.Thus this rendered them pretty ineffective in the field of aircraft maintenance,which was our primary function at the time.It also meant that they were not very cost effective by virtue of the fact stated above.
But the company would rather have a vast number of ineffective expensive graduates on there payroll than invest in training to overcome the shortage of licensed engineers to allow there operations to be conducted with a modicum of safety. If allowed they would happily do away with all licensed engineers if they could and probably will soon be issuing all degree holder a JAR66 "c" licence as a way of saving valuble resourses (i.e money).
At this point the situation will become comical.
A question I was asked at a production meeting by a highly qualified graduate engineer in charge progress of our aircraft on its C check was :-
"From the previous shift meeting handover/report (late shift the previous day) we can assume that all flap functions will be started today as per the flow chart and this will be your teams responsibility?"
I asked "Have you surveyed the aircraft on the other side of the door here,the one in the hangar?"
His answer was " Yes,why?"
"Because if you have then you will surely have noticed that the trailing edge flaps are not yet fitted to the aircraft, they are the long thingys on the trestles and my guess is that to function them we would be advised to fit them first wouldn't we?"
At this point the meeting was concluded and the chap was given a guided tour of the aircraft in bits.His comment was that on his flow chart productivity invested was showing that the aircraft was nearing completion. :- OOPS
This was not an isolated incident its a shame to say!
Point two,
Want to look at my pay slip,its a lot more than 36k?
Ps. Wheres Ghengis?
He's normally got a point or ten to make when these posts are about or has he taken early redundency?
Join Date: Sep 2003
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be fair asheng
maybe your highly qualified graduate engineer did not know where the hangar was,or did not know what a hangar is used for,because his flow chart did not mention the word,"HANGAR"
maybe your highly qualified graduate engineer did not know where the hangar was,or did not know what a hangar is used for,because his flow chart did not mention the word,"HANGAR"
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
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asheng, the situation you describe is what all LAMEs were afraid might happen when JAR 66 was still a proposal for the future. The idea that anyone could run a hangar check within five years of walking through the door was always ridiculous.
I believe your pay slip may indeed show much more than 36K but how much of it do you get to keep? What I need to survive is a bare minimum of 36K in my pocket which amounts to something like 58K+ before deductions. If LAEs are indeed earning that much in UK as a matter of routine, I'm surprised that there should be a shortage. BTW how much does your useless graduate manager make? The situation that drove me overseas still seems to continue - Maggie's mob told me to get on my bike so I did, but its impossible to stop pedalling.
On another note, does Big Airways still have a B747 Line Captain in charge of Wide Body maintenance? I noticed that they brought in a retired Concorde pilot to explain to the public on television that an engine surge is just the engine 'backfiring' - engineers wouldn't be articulate enough to provide a better explanation than that. Its the way we mumble and grunt that puts people off. That and the gravel rash on our knuckles...
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Through difficulties to the cinema
I believe your pay slip may indeed show much more than 36K but how much of it do you get to keep? What I need to survive is a bare minimum of 36K in my pocket which amounts to something like 58K+ before deductions. If LAEs are indeed earning that much in UK as a matter of routine, I'm surprised that there should be a shortage. BTW how much does your useless graduate manager make? The situation that drove me overseas still seems to continue - Maggie's mob told me to get on my bike so I did, but its impossible to stop pedalling.
On another note, does Big Airways still have a B747 Line Captain in charge of Wide Body maintenance? I noticed that they brought in a retired Concorde pilot to explain to the public on television that an engine surge is just the engine 'backfiring' - engineers wouldn't be articulate enough to provide a better explanation than that. Its the way we mumble and grunt that puts people off. That and the gravel rash on our knuckles...
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Through difficulties to the cinema
Join Date: May 2002
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Well, then, that's it.
You have all dashed my dreams of big money and high adventure in the aviation industry.
I was thinking of exploring the opportunities in Europe but if what I read in this thread is only half true you are all experiencing exactly the same problems we're having on this side of the "pond".
I guess the only significant difference is that over here we do commonly hire management straight out of university and those "managers" like to hire petrolium engineers into unsupervised positions as fuel systems engineers.
Based on your posts we're making about the same money for the same sized companies and suffering the same abuse at the hands of all those thirty-something managers.
You have all dashed my dreams of big money and high adventure in the aviation industry.
I was thinking of exploring the opportunities in Europe but if what I read in this thread is only half true you are all experiencing exactly the same problems we're having on this side of the "pond".
I guess the only significant difference is that over here we do commonly hire management straight out of university and those "managers" like to hire petrolium engineers into unsupervised positions as fuel systems engineers.
Based on your posts we're making about the same money for the same sized companies and suffering the same abuse at the hands of all those thirty-something managers.
Genghis is out of the country on a "flying" holiday.
Or to be precise, is sitting fuming a rental outfit in somewhere-or-other after refusing to accept a light single that was apparently signed off serviceable with a major fuel leak, missing harness and half the engine cowling fasteners hanging out - I stopped pre-flighting at that point, by somebody that I'm pretty certain none of us would consider deserves either the title "engineer" or the money I, AshEng, Blacksheep or any of the other regulars here make.
G
Who has never had this problem with aircraft maintained by Brits with any job title. Does anybody know who to talk to at FAA about maintenance standards?
Or to be precise, is sitting fuming a rental outfit in somewhere-or-other after refusing to accept a light single that was apparently signed off serviceable with a major fuel leak, missing harness and half the engine cowling fasteners hanging out - I stopped pre-flighting at that point, by somebody that I'm pretty certain none of us would consider deserves either the title "engineer" or the money I, AshEng, Blacksheep or any of the other regulars here make.
G
Who has never had this problem with aircraft maintained by Brits with any job title. Does anybody know who to talk to at FAA about maintenance standards?
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I was looking for work back home last month, and sure I could find some work, but not decent work. The market is in a slump, and the jobs that are available are because nobody wants to work for the peanuts that are offered. I asked one prospective employer what he expects to hire for the money he offerd. His reply was someone like you that needs a job bad enough. I made more as an apprentice than he was offering for an experienced supervisor to oversee a heavy check.
I gues I must stay in my sandbox with all the other guys that aren't willing to work for the sheer enjoyment of it, and a bit of pocket change.
I gues I must stay in my sandbox with all the other guys that aren't willing to work for the sheer enjoyment of it, and a bit of pocket change.
