For 733,people who look behind them get broken noses when they hit the wall in front of them. How about having a Dad that did'nt scab. I reckon my son/mate might find it a bit hard to get a job with the "big rat".Must admit, he does not seem too concerned.

Kurmitola......Very proud to share the Planet with you. Thank you.

Radnav, look very much forward to meeting you NOT. At least I'll be ready. Will You.....Really :D null

Kurmitola, terima kasi bunya!

radnav, your inflammatory posts PROVE that it would indeed be a danger to have you not only in the same cockpit, but in the same company, as any of your pre-'89 colleagues.
Thank you!

radnav, you wag. You're having a little joke with us?

So does anyone know what's happened to Captain T.J?

Radnav,
You seem to be missing the point somewhat. Noone here is saying they wish ill of the MAJORITY of Ansett employees. I'm sure everybody would love to see MOST of them reemployed in a good job.
Kurmitola,
Terima kasih for the sentiments, and the great times we had there.

Radnav. Which good job might you be able to maintain in Oz?

When you say MAINTAIN, would you be talking about Ansett? You're dreaming.

And which absolute world minority are you thinking of? Do you mean the 99.9% of the world that has never scabbed? You can be very sure that there are many companies out there that will never touch you, not because airline management don't like scabs (some of them do actually), but because as SOPS says, a lot of us are now in positions of influence in these companies, and there is no reason to "rock the boat" by employing the likes of you when there are now loads of experienced guys and girls who have never scabbed.

And if you do happen to snag a job in a company with 89ers, what sort of life do you think you and your family will have?

Remember, you are now VERY MUCH in the minority!

Untuk Kurmitola
Betul, Terima Kasih Banyak
SYABAS!
Aku mau chium MAS.
That was a great post by Kurmitola, makes it all feel worthwhile.

Quote from The St George Leader page 11

"Ansett Boeing 767 Captain Joe Wilson is facing early retirement if the airline does not fly again. It's been death of a thousand cuts, and not knowing when the final cut will come, he said. Captain Wilson, who is 58 said his chances of re-employment elsewhere were out of the question. He faces the prospect of having to sell his Cronulla home and moving to Perth and living in an investment property he owns."

Every dog has his day and the 89ers are having theirs now.

He will still be a scab in Perth. :cool:

Ol' hero Joe Wilson by the way is the worst kind of scab...joined AWA as an outside scab f/o and then progressed through the ranks to 767 capt in short period of time.Struth,no wonder the airlines been unsafe for the last 12 yrs!!!

Below is the full transcript of an article printed in "The Age" on Wednesday 1st May, 1991, in which Capt. Richard (“Dickie”) Marman, who heroically returned to Ansett early in the Airline dispute, warns that it would be unsafe for himself and any other pilots who returned during the dispute to fly with pilots who did not return to work for Ansett as a matter of principle.

(headline) Pilots Warn of Cockpit Danger

The cockpits of Australia’s domestic aircraft would border on “downright dangerous” if hard-line pilots who resigned during the pilot’s strike in 1989 joined those now working, a pilot said yesterday.

captain Richard Marman, chairman of the Ansett Air Pilots Association, said safety would be compromised by the animosities of these pilots.

The commission hearing is hearing an application by the Australian Technical Officers Federation, a largely managerial and executive union backed by the airlines, to take over the pilots from the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, AFAP, which ran the pilots’ side of the dispute.

Captain Marman, who has been flying for 23 years, said when he resigned from the AFAP in disappointment and disillusionment at its behaviour towards pilots who had returned to work, he had received phone calls of profound opposition.

“Many of those who phoned me were pilots in their early fifties whose children were grown and all had accepted lucrative jumbo jet contracts with overseas airlines.” he said.

Captain Marman said people he had known for 20 years had made it clear they never wanted to see him again. Other pilots were still harassed on the phone, in the street or by use of children’s clicking devices, which are used to signal a “scab” or strikebreaker.

Cross-examined by Mr Herman Borenstein, for the Federation, he said that there had been there had only been the odd outbreak of friction between junior first officers who now had now returned and those who went back during the dispute.

Captain Marman said he “returned to work because, against all my hopes, I realised there would be no resolution to the dispute and our jobs were being eroded away at the rate of approximately one a day. he was reaching the zenith of his career as a jet captain and was not going to throw it away for anyone, he said.

The AFAP wanted the deportation of foreign pilots and a freeze on all promotions within the domestic airlines until most pilots now employed retired, he said.

He said it would be wiser for pilots in work to begin a new organisation and not fall back on an old one that would tear itself apart through internal conflicts.

First Officer Hood said the AFAP continued to remind scabs that their behaviour would not be forgotten. “One quote often heard was that a scab even had his headstone marked scab and many examples were given as to what happens to scabs even years after the dispute.”

Diehard AFAP members would rather see the companies destroyed than work for them again, he said.
First Officer Hood, who is an instructor in the aircrew team management programme at Australian Airlines, said he knew of accidents brought about by poor teamwork and bad communication.

Unemployed AFAP members and those overseas, outnumbered those now employed by domestic airline, he said.
A subsidiary of Ansett, Ansett World Wide Wet Leasing, has hired several pilots who resigned from Ansett during the dispute. The subsidiary supplies pilots to other airlines, and the re-hired pilots will be flying aircraft operated by World Air Network, which is wholly owned by Japan’s All Nippon Airways.

Wet leasing is the business if supplying aircraft and crews, or just crews, to airlines which need them,

The accompanying photograph of Captain Marman is captioned “”Cockpit cooperation… would be out the window.”

Wiley from your post:
<<Below is the full transcript of an article printed in "The Age" on Wednesday 1st May, 1991, in which Capt. Richard (“Dickie” ;) Marman, who heroically returned to Ansett early in the Airline dispute, warns that it would be unsafe for himself and any other pilots who returned during the dispute to fly with pilots who did not return to work for Ansett as a matter of principle.
(headline) Pilots Warn of Cockpit Danger

The cockpits of Australia’s domestic aircraft would border on “downright dangerous” if hard-line pilots who resigned during the pilot’s strike in 1989 joined those now working, a pilot said yesterday.>>

How could you doubt that he was correct judgng by the postings of such 'hard line pilots" as well as the illegal actions such as property damage and physical assaults. Not to mention such recent threats on these pages such as "feeding through a straw" and such. Slasher is a master of this kind of thing. Notice he always says we/me and my mates would love to meet you.

Yes you are very brave in company and in
darkness as has been demonstrated before.

Let's not forget those who at the very start left for greener pastures overseas leaving the fight to the remainder and expecting to return to their previous positions when it as all over. Talk about stupidity!!

[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]

FSU
None of us who elected to stay behind to continue to try to get EVERYONE'S job back, had any qualms about those who left to go o/s early - many of them had NO option financially! You see, the difference between the scabs and the non-scabs is we were all working FOR each other, whereas your lot were ONLY in it for themselves. Again, from Pete's son Dick:
That attitude typifies that of ALL of his ilk - the "I did it for my family" lot. So the younger pilots shouldn't expect any help from their seniors, because, no doubt, they'll be looking to "reach the zenith of their career" at the expense of EVERYONE else.

It's every "man" for himself!

Inverted flight's reponse is easy to answer.
It is, that those of us whose lives were totally disrupted by the actions of scabs, have shown themsleves to be something the scabs are not, which, incidentally, includes inverted flight, that being totally trustworthy, and professional.
Like it or not, the reality is that the warning signs were there in AN for 29 years, and most pilots didn't see it.
Inverted flight's old AA was protected by his government, so he/she and most of the scabs there think they have an additional shield. :cool:

Thanks Kurmitola. Scabs are abhorred world-wide.
Scabs are physicaly safe within the borders of Oz. But if they were to come and try to work in certain places OUTSIDE Oz there are no such laws in place to protect them. Would we use physical violance to get rid of them? Well the most filthyest of these vermin (wish I could name names so youd know what type of scab Im talking about) would be a resounding yes but I think theyd be way too smart to set one foot OS. The rest though would be put under heavy psycological torture of such magnitude they wouldnt last very long. If they crumbled into a pile of cowardley wimps after a few weeks under pressure 12 years ago, theyd only last a few days. No real need to get physical. At the first sign of a fist theyd faint.
With luck theyll stay put in the safe scab-haven of Oz and such conflict need not occur. So if they are stupid enough to come over here then they will only have themselves to blame for what happens to them.

PS and yes its a "WE". Make no mistake about that.

Gawd, FSU, I feel a bit like me old mate 411A in saying “you’ve missed my point”… I quoted the article faithfully, (although I think I messed up transcribing one paragraph regarding FO Hood, hopefully not destroying the sense of the original).

My point… (dare I add “duh!”) was that if Dickie said then that flight safety concerns made it “totally unacceptable” for “hard line” miscreant 89ers to share a cockpit with paragons of virtue like him, (who, and I quote him – “…was reaching the zenith of his career as a jet captain and was not going to throw it away for anyone…”[a bit close to the uncomfortable truth with that comment, Dickie]), surely it would be equally unsafe and “totally unacceptable” for paragons of virtue like him to fly for an airline that was already employing many “hard liners”? (Which translates to “Virgin Blue and just about every airline employing expat labour in the world.)

It might shoot down my argument, but I have to add that I can’t say I agree with him. In the (very eventful) 12 years I’ve enjoyed since leaving AN, I’ve flown a number of times with heroes, both those involved in the Australian dispute of 1989 and other disputes. (The ‘blow ins’ who came from Europe for an all expenses paid summer holiday and some Yanks from Eastern and Braniff.) Like the vast majority of my “hard liner” colleagues faced with such a situation, I did the job, not allowing any personal feelings to intrude on the operation.

However, I indulged in no small talk on the flight deck and on reaching the hotel, I made no attempt to share any off duty time with my colleague, and strangely enough, they ALL seemed to understand these unwritten rules, never showing their faces in the bar or the restaurant. I can’t say it was ideal, and I can understand completely why any employer would prefer to avoid such a situation, particularly in an expat environment.

(And a,note for Kim Beazely: I was never on strike in 1989 – like all my colleagues not willing to surrender all principles because, eg I “…was reaching the zenith of (MY) career as a jet captain and was not going to throw it away for anyone…” - I was locked out).

The AN 737 scabs may have the desperation to apply to Virgin , but I feel they wont get the welcome mat pulled out!!!

There is no doubt that Dick Marman's words have come back to haunt him. I think you've got him there. Given the level of vitriol expressed above, it is most unlikely that that he will be applying for jobs at VB or overseas. Perhaps SQ will be the destination of choice for him and his contempories. Many are there already. I find it noteable that many contributors above have taken the high moral ground on the issue of the pilot's dispute. However many of your associates did not behave in a manner that Tool Time describes as "totally trustworthy and professional" either during the dispute or in the years after. My name does not appear on Neil's scab list, nor should it. I submitted my initial application to AN ~4 months prior to the dispute, was interveiwed in mid'90 and employed later that year; well outside the cutoff date of March '90. Despite this I have personally encountered some disgusting behavior from members of AFAP( and I was a member, by the way) such as: 1) During the first weeks of the dispute the GA company that I worked for did a lot of flying out of ML. One day wilst between flights I went to get a cup of coffee and was KING HIT FROM BEHIND BY A DISPUTER WHO WAS WITH ABOUT 20 OF HIS MATES!!!(what a 'hero'!) This, after showing a clipboard that prominantly displayed the name of the GA company that I worked for. 2)A GA work-mate had a mixture of dog $hit and broken glass put under the door handle of his car along with a note under his w/s wiper that read "scab" (also at ML). 3)Was told by the plethora of disputers "dont take my job or you'll be labeled a scab" wilst these guys flooded GA hence taking flying from myself and other GA pilots who were employed on a casual basis 4)In the early days of pprune I had included my e-mail address in my profile(in good faith) and had an attempt made to send me a virus as an e-mail attachment from a certain individual in HKG( didn't cover his tracks very well, his name was easily determined by me.). 5)Had some 'hero' ex-pat ram his bag into my knee in briefing room in KL. 6) Another 'hero' ex-pat in KL leaned over my shoulder and spat on NOTAMS as I reading them(The MAS briefing bloke went absolutley ballistic at this d ick head). The last character could have easily lost his job, but I felt sorry for this pathetic person and did not persue it. As I have posted before, I have heard many stories about the dispute and there are some inspiring stories of personal courage amongst those who did not return but also from those who did. And there are the opportunists. Those who shouted "out brothers, out" then signed contracts the next day. The new blood at AN knew who was who. If I encounter any '89ers out there who want to lecture me about AN and the dispute, fine , I'll listen to them. But I have my stories to tell as well. And my principles. And if they don't like 'em , they can shove it.(By the way, Hello Ian...)

Yeh I recall being e-mailed about an incident in K.L. (one of a few that did the rounds). Most likely you were not targeted in particular ANFO but were unfortunatley tarred with the same brush at the time. But no doubt it was that curley-haired scum-sucker you were with who they were after.

ANFO, try to put the events of '89 into context with what is happening to Ansett staff today - your feelings of the loss of your job and income, the wondering IF you can again find employment.hopefully with a newly cash-injected Ansett, and whether indeed YOU will be one of the "lucky ones" who scores a job if/when AN does kick off once more, the possibility that you may have to leave your city or even country to continue employment, and the overall uncertainty.

Now try to understand that we had these SAME feelings and questions then - however the BIG difference was OUR jobs were being stolen by people who were not part of the original equation, AND others (such as "captain" Marman) were actively working AGAINST having us re-employed.

Please try to understand OUR emotions, now that YOU are in a similar situation. And please, don't respond with the "you resigned" rhetoric - that point has been done to death, and the reasons for our resignations were patently obvious.

"Forgive and forget" (B.McC) - don't we ALL wish we could!