Can Ansett pilots work in Australia?
 

Following the 1989 "war", the `heroes` who returned publically stated that it would be unacceptable to have their previous peers re-employed (by Ansett and Australian Airlines), on the grounds of SAFETY - the reason being that discussion of 1989 would be inflammatory and dangerous.

As Ansett`s future now appears extremely short term, it would be safe to assume that pilots will be looking for jobs, and the major employers in the short term being Virgin Blue and National Jet - both of which are crewed by predominantly ex-89`ers.

I guess the same rules would still have to apply, wouldn`t they?!

Who was it who mentioned the turning of the wheel (or, what goes around comes around?).

Hopefully we`ll see the exodus of the hundreds of imports that blew in, off Australia`s shores, as they search for another airline to "rescue", and leave positions for the REAL Australians who deserve to stay at home.

Will there ever be an end to this?
:(

That would OK,getting rid of the IMPORTS, but why do Australians DESERVE to stay at home.
Better to give those who WANT to stay home job ops and those who WANT to earn double the money go overseas :D :D

Chuckles ;)

KaptinM, how can you be an Australian? I cant believe you're excited to see the loss of 15000 jobs in this country! You are a disgrace to you country and yourself. :mad:

Mir3,
Don't take too much notice of Kaptin M and the like. It is very hard to correlate many of his points of view. He boasts mightily of the great salary he is earning compared to the heroes and yet, in the very next breath, he states that AN and QF pilots are grossly overpaid

In the next instance he indicates his desire to return to Australia, do you believe he owns three houses here,(hope he has good tenants) but after this he will protest that he doesn't want to return. Most probably he works for SQ or some such and we all know how good that is!

12 weeks holiday this year! Great!! Must have missed out for a while. But then again, has he got a job at all. One has to wonder. Seems to have plenty of time on the net. :D

Someone asked when it will end. Well it won't for Kaptin M and his kind but it was over ages ago for the general population. If people persist in making clowns of themselves there is little anyone else can do to help them. :rolleyes:

But don't deny them the pleasure it brings to make renvengeful posts at every opportunity. There is not much else to do in their lives. :confused:

[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]

Flat Side Up. Thankyou for your support. I was disgusted with his anti Australian post. As far as I'm concerned the moderator should ban him for life. Perhaps we should start a thread where all who agree with this can say so. You're right about the contradictions of his posts. I'm not going to sit back and let anyone express such pleasure at the potential loss of up to 15000 jobs whether they be Ansett employees or anyone else. :mad:

Hmmmm. Don't recall seeing the originator's comment making gleeful comments about the loss of 15,000 jobs.
However, what has transpired with regard to AN is the result a chain of events which commenced in 1972. Yes 1972.
Most of the contributors may well have been in short pants then.
Mere (Mir3) reactions are not logical. Neither are inverted flights (FSU).
If An joins inverted flight, then it is as a result of that chain of events, and a major contribution is from those to whom KM refers.
Oh, and I don't mind being one of his "ilk". At least he calls it the way it was, and is.
Sui Generis.
:cool:

That's the whole point guy's. It will never end until every last guy has passed on, and nor should it.

To see your families and friends fall apart, die and suffer financial ruin is not a pain that quickly heals. To arbitarily say that 12 years on time is up, Mir3 and FSU have got on with their lives, so should you is incredibly selfish, and an example of the shafting self centred attitude that renders industrial action ineffective.

Sure, KaptinM's attitudes are coloured by the trauma he and his mates went through. It would be naive to expect otherwise. As for contradicting himself, well after >1000 posts, there is probably the chance of the odd inconsistency.

Mir3, FSU Spuds etc, you might not like what is said, but "thems the breaks". To equate M's musings here as unAustralian is a low and simple attempt to use emotion and nationalism to win the argument. Doesn't really work.

If the subject bores you, and I know it can get repetive for those who don't like to read it, either because of guilt or lack of interest, I say move on to the next post. It's what I do.

1)I was around back then (89) but not with either QF or AN. No strong feelings either way
2) I am sure alot of the contributors a few months back denegrating impulse, virgin, NJS etc were current AN drivers. They would have been happy to see the back end of the above. What comes around goes around.
3) If, and it is a huge "IF", this was the end of AN, with the bitter feelings still around and the fact that the peolpe incharge of recruitment for the above are ex AN etc from 89 then I would be very supprised if the current AN guys ex 89 would find it easy to gain employment in an Australia airline, but I think they are all aware of that anyway.

Mir3 and FSU.
Would a bucket of cold water help.
Poor wee things getting so upset.
I am getting quite a giggle from your frantic responses.

Anti Australian!!
Employing a lot of foreign Pilots, giving them permanent residency and paying them more money than your own cheap labor....Now that's Anti Australian.
What goes round comes round.

Ho Hum!...M3 and FSU are soooo bloooody boooring!!! :cool:

What is anti-Australian, is that AN was destroyed by the likes of the late Abeles, aided and abetted by the PM of the day, and the Sec. of the ACTU of the day.
It then became fully owned by a foreign company, in turn partly owned by another foreign company, which in reality has no love for the likes of Australia (ns).
THIS, is what would make RM turn in his grave, the rest of the decent former employees consider the current circumstance a tragedy. :cool:

Now how many pilots are we talking about here. Any numbers?? 500!! It is interesting that Singapore has just advertised for drivers (yes, yet again) and I wonder the number of skippers that they are looking for!!

No, it would just be pure chance, coincidence yes?? Mybe I have worked in Asia too long.... ;)

Mir3 you can put me alongside KM on your list of "Disgraced Australians" too. One of the benefits of leaving Oz, is never having to put up with idealistic and ignorant yobbos like you in the street. Christ I cant believe that silly bloodey nationalist sentement crap is still around.

PS Now be a good boy and pay your taxes (hey and no tax-evasion! Thats Un-Australian!) to Mr Howard so that AN can have a nice bail out. Im sure all the staff at ansett will thank you personaly.

Le Pilot, Mir3 is too busy with his fantasy dinky-di pride to let such things like the facts of recent history interfere with his idealistic cultural baggage.

Slasher. Is that all you've got? ZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Obviously enjoying expat life? NOT. You can say whatever you want but you're still another bitter little man stuck overseas. Enjoy. :)

You small minded wonders can trivialize this topic all you want but the point brought up by Kaptin M is a very valid one.

A case was presented in court to prevent the majority of ex dispute pilots from working at their previous Companies - ON THE GROUNDS OF SAFETY. The claim was made that it would not be safe for ex workmates from opposite sides of the industrial fence to be located in the same cockpit as this would lead to a potentially hostile environment with related safety implications.

The question Kaptin M is merely asking is that now that the shoe is on the other foot (potentially), are these same protagonists going to live by their own established rules or suggest that somehow it's different now.

Given that the case made at the time was sufficient to prevent all but a tiny handful of pilots returning after the dispute, I would reckon that the ruling still stands.

Valid question? Or are we just going to launch into Kaptin M again?

Some of us aren't bitter, I'm definitely not little (wish I was smaller though) and most definitely not "stuck" overseas (if you know where that is.)

Nationalism is used by tyrants to justify attrocities, definitely the refuge of the scoundrel.

The ANZAC spirit however is different. It's about people who make a difference for the better. Are MIR3 etc the type of people that have made a difference for the better, or are they scared about losing their jobs.

You can't expect solidarity from a pilot group you, or your "mates", alienated a decade ago. To think you can is not naive, it's childish.

Do a search on Mir3 and the posts reveal nothing more than an angry man to be disregarded until he can offer something constructive.

This is my 1st post re '89'.
1. I was in GA during the dispute, not an airline. Yes, the pilots were screwed over by the Govt and ACTU (that is a matter of public record).
2. I do not believe their is anything wrong with national pride, and I believe that a little more wouldn't go astray in this country. It's worth being proud of, leftyies, greenies, democrats and bleeding hearts excepted.
3. The ANZAC spirit is more about mateship than pure nationalism, but the fundamental principal is ALWAYS help your mates. These men fought for everybodies right to have a fair go, and not to be stabbed in the back.
4. If the people employed immediately post dispute do end up in the employment que, hiring them would denigrate the efforts of all who stood by their principals during the dispute. Quote:'as ye sow, so shall ye reap', after all what goes around comes around. :p

Now there's an interesting comment from a sideliner of '89 :cool:

You bad boy M don't you know that unlike us everything they do is for their families and not themselves. Have pity as it's all they(the heroes) deserve.
P.S. How's the well paid overseas job with lots of leave going ?

Clear to land, like Tooley Ill pay you that one too. Regarding your 2nd point post the only day Im proud to be Australian is on ANZAC Day. The other 364 days Im a world citizen . I no longer give a stuff nor have any loyalty to any political, cultural or geographical land mass whether mum spat me out there or not. Most world citizens have the same attitude. Parochial nationalism is expensive because it limits the financial opportunitys the world can offer you.

Stick it to 'em Kaptin You continue to raise very valid points. I for one forced, oversea's by these selfish people throughly enjoy you posts.!!

[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: MJMJKG ]

Pharknose. Obviously you have a decent conk! Please be fair and allow me my views as we all allow others their indefatigable opinions on these forums. :cool:

For those of you frothing at the mouth about Kapt M's "unAustralian"(?) remark in opening this thread, I can tell you I have here a newspaper clipping including a photograph of the first President of the Ansett Pilot's Union, Captain Richard Marman, making the very statement Kapt M attributes to him - that it would be "unsafe for AN to employ '89'ers' because of friction on the flight deck because of the ill-feeling between the two groups."

So will Capt Marman be including this little snippet in his resume then?

Marman set the precedent. No heroes will be employed....ANYWHERE.

Didn't all the pilots who left Oz after 89 actually RESIGN from their airline jobs ???????????

I feel very sorry for all the AN support staff, but as for the pilots, what goes around comes around.

It is a sad sad day that AN has had to close it's doors. I wish well to all 16,000 employees that are not scabs. Good luck.

My deepest condolences to most of the Ansett employees.

It's unfortunate that we are only "mere employee numbers", who can be cast aside at the wim of those who are poor managers.

But those of the '89 era, I can only say, it has gone around.

Good on ya Le Pilot, Airbrake42, Flyspray, Amos, Tool Time, Levelflt, Pharknose and others who have something sensible to say.

Mir3's attitude is unbeleivable.

Sir Shiraz,

You would do yourself a favour if you researched the subject prior to making silly comments out of context.

Guess whose books are suddenly filled with applcants for OS jobs. RAL & Skinny. :cool:

I recieved a reply to a query that I e-mailed to a prospective employer. This query related to the prospect of flying with non-returnees of the '89 dipute. The personnel manager at this company has stated that.."The management of XYZ Airlines promotes a harmonious work environment.Employees who engage in any conduct that is found to constitute harrassment will subject to disiplinary action. Penalties for such behaviours(sic)include summarary dismissal". I recall some years ago, certain non-returnees lost their jobs at MAS and SQ for using the "S" word at some of their ex-collegues. I guess that a few guys out there are going to have too bite their tongue and mind their manners in the near future. Kind regards to all. :rolleyes:

ANFO, non-scabs wont have a problem making aplications OS. Anyone not on the published scab-list will not meet any real resistance from us off-shore. The only stigma theyll have to live with is that they came from a ratbag scab outfit.
Dont know about MAS but in SQ I gave thorough sh!t to the Continental scabs and never got into any trouble with management. Then again the non-scab US-expat componant of SQ gave them far more hell than any Aussie did.

ANFO your story of "certain NON-returnees losing their jobs at MAS and SQ for using the word SCAB", is totally incorrect - obviously some wishful thinking HERO trying to promote propaganda.

Scabs that worked in ANY airline (except for EVA Air) are pariahs amongst pilots - they are not accepted even by those who have had no direct dealings with them. How do I know this? Because the subject of where the (now "ex") Ansett returnees will try to go next, has been raised with other NON-AUSTRALIAN pilots, and THEY will likewise voice THEIR disapproval to contractors and employer, IF they (The scabs/heroes) try to gain employment.

I also understand that the "scab lists" have been sent to contractors.

Again, what was handed out to those who attempted to return through the front door, rather than sneek back, is NOW going to be dished BACK.
Nothing unfair about that, is there?

Aviation is TOO small a profession to 5h!t on other people and think that it will forever go unnoticed, or unrepaid.

The toes that you step on today might be connected to the foot in the shoes that you have to clean tomorrow!

Sui Generis.

K.M. do you know if Neil P will be updating "the list" as time goes on? Ive heard from a reliable source some foreign scabs may change there name by deed poll to improve there employment prospects. But I dont know how true that is because it doesnt sound very efective unless they try to bullsh!t there employment history (which I wouldnt put past them).

Sui Generis mate.

Sir Shiraz.

You will never receive a defintive yes/no answer to that question.

[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: Viper ]