Closure of YMPC, YMEN and YMMB
To Hmmm.
For what it's worth, the so-called limit of five aircraft in the Point Cook circuit is not a CASA directive and never was. I was given this info only recently by a senior CASA FOI.
It was used as an excuse by RMIT/GFS in conjunction with the RAAF museum people in order to allow GFS to get max utilization of the circuit without having to worry about other operators horning in. The figure of five was purely arbitrary and based upon the ERSA figure of a max of five aircraft for night flying at MB while under ATC control.
While the RAAF Museum aircraft including the Mustang happily utilise the grass areas when not wet, GFS authorities elect not to use the grass at all. This conveniently causes higher density traffic on the runways.
Since RAAF pilots learned to fly at Point Cook from the early years after the war, they used the grass in conjunction with the two runways. I know - I was there. It was excellent and efficient utilisation of the aerodrome and not marred by petty politics.
Since the RAAF opened the door to civil operators ten years ago there had been no problem with people sharing the grass and runways. However as soon as RMIT moved in and started chasing Asian students (and I must say they have done a fine job of marketing) - someone there decided that it was too dangerous to share the grass and the runways. What nonsense.
So that is where the myth of five aircraft maximum in the circuit originated. The airport management go along with the GFS mob because its easier that way. Hard luck for the EN operators.
For what it's worth, the so-called limit of five aircraft in the Point Cook circuit is not a CASA directive and never was. I was given this info only recently by a senior CASA FOI.
It was used as an excuse by RMIT/GFS in conjunction with the RAAF museum people in order to allow GFS to get max utilization of the circuit without having to worry about other operators horning in. The figure of five was purely arbitrary and based upon the ERSA figure of a max of five aircraft for night flying at MB while under ATC control.
While the RAAF Museum aircraft including the Mustang happily utilise the grass areas when not wet, GFS authorities elect not to use the grass at all. This conveniently causes higher density traffic on the runways.
Since RAAF pilots learned to fly at Point Cook from the early years after the war, they used the grass in conjunction with the two runways. I know - I was there. It was excellent and efficient utilisation of the aerodrome and not marred by petty politics.
Since the RAAF opened the door to civil operators ten years ago there had been no problem with people sharing the grass and runways. However as soon as RMIT moved in and started chasing Asian students (and I must say they have done a fine job of marketing) - someone there decided that it was too dangerous to share the grass and the runways. What nonsense.
So that is where the myth of five aircraft maximum in the circuit originated. The airport management go along with the GFS mob because its easier that way. Hard luck for the EN operators.
Yep! Spent 2 minutes yelling at the Bear. Suggest every pilot on Pprune from every corner of the world should do it just to **** them off more.
And While we're about it perhaps they should hurry up and improve the runways at Bankstown & Moorabbin looking at the next 50 years of flying. Likewise the second North South and East West should be put in in YMML ASAP before more of these idiots build the airport out.
Sadly I think the fate of Essendon is sealed? Foxy will slowly destroy it as an airport. Hope I'm wrong!
And While we're about it perhaps they should hurry up and improve the runways at Bankstown & Moorabbin looking at the next 50 years of flying. Likewise the second North South and East West should be put in in YMML ASAP before more of these idiots build the airport out.
Sadly I think the fate of Essendon is sealed? Foxy will slowly destroy it as an airport. Hope I'm wrong!
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Maybe someone should advise these w@nkers that an airborne aeroplane that is not making any noise could well pose more of a threat to them.
We used to have the same problem with the rare engine changes on F27s at Wynyard.
Ground runs bang in the centre of town at 0300 on a cold still morning used to bring some interesting phone calls - so we left the phone off the hook next E/C.
Up they rolled in the fluffy slippers and dressing gowns.
Short sharp replies asking of their enjoyment of sex and travel did a fairly good job.
Best all
EWL
We used to have the same problem with the rare engine changes on F27s at Wynyard.
Ground runs bang in the centre of town at 0300 on a cold still morning used to bring some interesting phone calls - so we left the phone off the hook next E/C.
Up they rolled in the fluffy slippers and dressing gowns.
Short sharp replies asking of their enjoyment of sex and travel did a fairly good job.
Best all
EWL
Evertonian
Yes, it's interresting thinking, when one considers what Fox will to to MEB. He's got a "terrific" track record with an airline & his mate made his money on property development didn't he???
As some may recall, I grew up under the NS runway at MEB & my Dad fondly recalls seeing the Comet flying overhead on one of it's first trips to Oz.
Perhaps, chaps, we are approaching this the wrong way. Surely, an airport such as Essendon is of historic significance. Perhaps the National trust should be involved? I can't speak of Bankstown or Moorabbin as I don't know them that well, but surely Essendon could be considered as significant as Mascot in terms of Australias aviation heritage?
As some may recall, I grew up under the NS runway at MEB & my Dad fondly recalls seeing the Comet flying overhead on one of it's first trips to Oz.
Perhaps, chaps, we are approaching this the wrong way. Surely, an airport such as Essendon is of historic significance. Perhaps the National trust should be involved? I can't speak of Bankstown or Moorabbin as I don't know them that well, but surely Essendon could be considered as significant as Mascot in terms of Australias aviation heritage?
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Many a very happy Christmas spent at MEB Buster, crawing over DC3s 4s and 6s - us airline brats weren't allowed to play with the Viscounts or Electras.
Standing on the observation deck with the binocs firmly locked on TJA as she made her first ever approach into MEB on her delivery flight was a highlight of my life - and then being on stand-by at 7 years of age standing with my father at the ventral stairs on a windy tarmac with the APU howling while they counted the empties before loading us and a day in Sydney!!! Wow - what a treat for a second grader in the early sixties!!
The skipper was Jimmy James - I have that in the Junior Flyers logbook and it was indeed TJA again.
It is funny that. My first ever flight as a little shaver was on TJA, and until she was withdrawn from service wherever I went, up to age 19 (still flying on the old mans concession and going out with a TN flight attendant) - there was Julie Alpha to take me home.
When she was retired, I drove to AMD Tulla and told the security dude I wanted to say goodbye to a friend. He said "who?" I said Juliet Alpha - he was straight on the phone and a LAME took me out to her. Have some very sad pics of her de-turbined and flaps fully extended - but I said my goodbyes.
But isn't that just the point? Australian domestic aviation is part of our heritage, and these nazis must be put in their place and quickly.
This is OUR Australia - a place where I grew up and Santa arrived in THA or THB (before it was wrecked in the Antarctic) and is our field of dreams. Think of those that went before - of the dreams many of you have realised flying out of Essendon, Moorabbin, Bankstown and God knows how many other airports suburbia is creeping upon. Think of those we have lost - their souls still dwell in the shadows of those airports watching over the newcomers.
Email these idiots. Protect the memories of Kevin Humpris, Boomer Collins and all the icons of our industry from these money grubbing losers.
God I love this industry - and woe betide anyone who seeks to bring its icons down.
Please excuse the sermon.
Best all
EWL
Standing on the observation deck with the binocs firmly locked on TJA as she made her first ever approach into MEB on her delivery flight was a highlight of my life - and then being on stand-by at 7 years of age standing with my father at the ventral stairs on a windy tarmac with the APU howling while they counted the empties before loading us and a day in Sydney!!! Wow - what a treat for a second grader in the early sixties!!
The skipper was Jimmy James - I have that in the Junior Flyers logbook and it was indeed TJA again.
It is funny that. My first ever flight as a little shaver was on TJA, and until she was withdrawn from service wherever I went, up to age 19 (still flying on the old mans concession and going out with a TN flight attendant) - there was Julie Alpha to take me home.
When she was retired, I drove to AMD Tulla and told the security dude I wanted to say goodbye to a friend. He said "who?" I said Juliet Alpha - he was straight on the phone and a LAME took me out to her. Have some very sad pics of her de-turbined and flaps fully extended - but I said my goodbyes.
But isn't that just the point? Australian domestic aviation is part of our heritage, and these nazis must be put in their place and quickly.
This is OUR Australia - a place where I grew up and Santa arrived in THA or THB (before it was wrecked in the Antarctic) and is our field of dreams. Think of those that went before - of the dreams many of you have realised flying out of Essendon, Moorabbin, Bankstown and God knows how many other airports suburbia is creeping upon. Think of those we have lost - their souls still dwell in the shadows of those airports watching over the newcomers.
Email these idiots. Protect the memories of Kevin Humpris, Boomer Collins and all the icons of our industry from these money grubbing losers.
God I love this industry - and woe betide anyone who seeks to bring its icons down.
Please excuse the sermon.
Best all
EWL
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Re: thought provoking idea’s
I think there needs to be a “Save our Airports action party or group” or some sort to counteract these minor anti-airport groups, otherwise we can say good bye to the good old local city airport. (It would need to be a national “Save our Airports action group or part” to get the support from all sectors.)
It needs to include; local communities, airlines, all GA people (Operators, Pilots, LAMEs), along with the other infrastructure’s (bank runs, freight, the general flying public etc) that relies on the aircraft industry.
Just imagine for example or where ever you local GAAP or City airport maybe; if Bankstown or Mascot closed and relocated. Could you imagine how much costs would go up, freight for example would get hit hard? You can just imagine the tourism being hit hard, because the airport is inaccessible etc.
You could probably finance something like this action group, from the business sectors that rely on local airports to bring awareness to our communities how important airports are?
I think there needs to be a “Save our Airports action party or group” or some sort to counteract these minor anti-airport groups, otherwise we can say good bye to the good old local city airport. (It would need to be a national “Save our Airports action group or part” to get the support from all sectors.)
It needs to include; local communities, airlines, all GA people (Operators, Pilots, LAMEs), along with the other infrastructure’s (bank runs, freight, the general flying public etc) that relies on the aircraft industry.
Just imagine for example or where ever you local GAAP or City airport maybe; if Bankstown or Mascot closed and relocated. Could you imagine how much costs would go up, freight for example would get hit hard? You can just imagine the tourism being hit hard, because the airport is inaccessible etc.
You could probably finance something like this action group, from the business sectors that rely on local airports to bring awareness to our communities how important airports are?
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EWL
Thank you once again for a beautiful post, which evoked similar memories.
I spent a few years working out of the EN terminal with a cuppla aircraft parking bays out on the apron, long after the big kids mopved to Tulla, you could almost hear and feel the ghosts and spirits of times past.
They didn't call it Windy Hill for nothing.
It got really interesting on some mornings when fog closed Tulla and I would arrive at work with all these "foreign" aircraft cluttering up "my" tarmac, with the crews standing around waiting and enjoying the interlude.
My office coffee machine would work hard catching up with all the goss whilst waiting for the sun to burn it off.
The airport snack bar concession would enjoy a little windfall and the terminal would come to life and echo with live voices once again.
Then they would all one by one just disappear into the wide blue yonder and the dead stillness and whispering ghosts and echoes would return once again.
THB, wrecked Antarctica. Was that an Otter and what were the circs.??
Thank you once again for a beautiful post, which evoked similar memories.
I spent a few years working out of the EN terminal with a cuppla aircraft parking bays out on the apron, long after the big kids mopved to Tulla, you could almost hear and feel the ghosts and spirits of times past.
They didn't call it Windy Hill for nothing.
It got really interesting on some mornings when fog closed Tulla and I would arrive at work with all these "foreign" aircraft cluttering up "my" tarmac, with the crews standing around waiting and enjoying the interlude.
My office coffee machine would work hard catching up with all the goss whilst waiting for the sun to burn it off.
The airport snack bar concession would enjoy a little windfall and the terminal would come to life and echo with live voices once again.
Then they would all one by one just disappear into the wide blue yonder and the dead stillness and whispering ghosts and echoes would return once again.
THB, wrecked Antarctica. Was that an Otter and what were the circs.??
Bottums Up
Essendon
Ah Gaunty - Essendon Airport! 
I have many fond memories as a youngster going to Essendon to drop off or collect my old man from various business trips. Friendships, Electras, Viscounts, 72's, Dc9s.......
Imagine my chagrin when Dad (a train buff) took my train lovin' little brother to Adelaide for a day jolly. Westbound on an Electra and home on a 72'. All I got was a trip to Jollimont rail yards to watch the &&^%$$# trains shunt! (wonder if I still harbour some resentment
)
Sitting up in the Restaurant and being able to look up the tail pipe of the centre engine as the aircraft taxied. The unmistakable sound of a Dart. My first ever flight was as a 14 yr old, TAA F27 Essendon to Canberra.
As far as I'm concerned, Essendon Airport pre Tulla opening in 1971/2 had the best atmosphere of any airport I've ever been at.
I worked there as a gofer in about 1978, can't remeber the company name but it was run/owned by Chris Brading and his ex, Pam (who had married a friend of my parent's).
P'raps we were there at the same time?
Ain't nostalga grand!
I have many fond memories as a youngster going to Essendon to drop off or collect my old man from various business trips. Friendships, Electras, Viscounts, 72's, Dc9s.......
Imagine my chagrin when Dad (a train buff) took my train lovin' little brother to Adelaide for a day jolly. Westbound on an Electra and home on a 72'. All I got was a trip to Jollimont rail yards to watch the &&^%$$# trains shunt! (wonder if I still harbour some resentment
)Sitting up in the Restaurant and being able to look up the tail pipe of the centre engine as the aircraft taxied. The unmistakable sound of a Dart. My first ever flight was as a 14 yr old, TAA F27 Essendon to Canberra.
As far as I'm concerned, Essendon Airport pre Tulla opening in 1971/2 had the best atmosphere of any airport I've ever been at.
I worked there as a gofer in about 1978, can't remeber the company name but it was run/owned by Chris Brading and his ex, Pam (who had married a friend of my parent's).
P'raps we were there at the same time?
Ain't nostalga grand!
Last edited by Capt Claret; 6th Aug 2002 at 05:29.
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Clarrie
phew :o
Geeeez............................................... Big Kids move to Tulla 1971/2....................................Gulp, ..................................... doesn't time fly when you are having fun.
I was talking about the mid eighties, when THOSE ghosts were getting about in zimmer frames.
Keith Hants ex Lancaster, Electra Capt and all the ones in between, not using a zimmer, and many cups of coffee and fabulous Electra and airline reminices whilst he wrung me out in his DC9 ? link for renewal practise with Maltese crosses and the like in his office out the end of the finger.
That used to get the ghosts going if you didn't freeze to death first.
phew :o
Geeeez............................................... Big Kids move to Tulla 1971/2....................................Gulp, ..................................... doesn't time fly when you are having fun.
I was talking about the mid eighties, when THOSE ghosts were getting about in zimmer frames.
Keith Hants ex Lancaster, Electra Capt and all the ones in between, not using a zimmer, and many cups of coffee and fabulous Electra and airline reminices whilst he wrung me out in his DC9 ? link for renewal practise with Maltese crosses and the like in his office out the end of the finger.
That used to get the ghosts going if you didn't freeze to death first.
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It was used as an excuse by RMIT/GFS in conjunction with the RAAF museum people in order to allow GFS to get max utilization of the circuit without having to worry about other operators horning in.
Damn them!!!
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Capt Claret
Actually watched an Electra reverse out of a parking spot at Essendon one day. I just adore my visits to the then Mecca.
Gaunty - thanks mate but I call it like I see it, and the ghosts do abound there. East West looked at Essendon very seriously in the early eighties and the echoes and the feeling inside the terminal were a tangible weight as we walked through.
I so wanted the old girl to come alive again.
Later in life I saw the film based on the Steven King book The Langoliers - and it rang so true it shook me.
VH-THB was one of 2 Bell Helicabs TAA ran for a period of time. The aeroplane was chartered to the Antarctic dudes, and was landed untidily on an ice plateau.It was deemed the angle of the plateau and its relative instability made it unsafe to retrieve the girl and she was abandoned. Probably still there somewhere.
Details were dredged from the "dead zone" so correction is welcomed.
Best all
EWL
Actually watched an Electra reverse out of a parking spot at Essendon one day. I just adore my visits to the then Mecca.
Gaunty - thanks mate but I call it like I see it, and the ghosts do abound there. East West looked at Essendon very seriously in the early eighties and the echoes and the feeling inside the terminal were a tangible weight as we walked through.
I so wanted the old girl to come alive again.
Later in life I saw the film based on the Steven King book The Langoliers - and it rang so true it shook me.
VH-THB was one of 2 Bell Helicabs TAA ran for a period of time. The aeroplane was chartered to the Antarctic dudes, and was landed untidily on an ice plateau.It was deemed the angle of the plateau and its relative instability made it unsafe to retrieve the girl and she was abandoned. Probably still there somewhere.
Details were dredged from the "dead zone" so correction is welcomed.
Best all
EWL
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Nostalgia... bane of the beancounter
The current NOTAMS at EN
SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN BIRD ACTIVITY IN VICINITY OF AD
FROM 06 150441 TO 08 150700 EST
(Need more aircraft to disperse them)
C105/02 REVIEW C57/02
APCH LGT RWY 26 NOT AVBL
HIAL RWY 26 NOT AVBL
FROM 06 302307 TO 10 010700 EST
(Current owner unwilling to restore to operational standard
- never to be serviceable)
C117/02 REVIEW C56/02
TWY SIERRA NOT AVBL DUE ACFT PARKING.
FROM 07 290222 TO 10 300200 EST
(Graveyard of 7 BAE 146's - more money in storage than flying)
Says it all really!!
As a lad from the country, when we visited Melbourne I'd drag
the old man out to EN just to watch the hurly burly.
It's hard to believe the hardware they could fit into the centre
apron. I recall the first DC9 doing ILS and O/S training prior
to going into service (1966??). Couldn't believe the performance
(obviously on two engines and lightweight) and the NOISE.
The locals loved it. Not like the yuppie cancer that's invading
the boundary now. The saddest memory is of the three perfectly
serviceable IPEC Argosys being reduced to bite sized pieces by
a prehistoric monster like machine with a giant pincer claw
up front. What a defilement of history.
The aerodrome still has lots to offer, unfortunately it
appears that aviation will not play much of a part in its future.
The current NOTAMS at EN
SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN BIRD ACTIVITY IN VICINITY OF AD
FROM 06 150441 TO 08 150700 EST
(Need more aircraft to disperse them)
C105/02 REVIEW C57/02
APCH LGT RWY 26 NOT AVBL
HIAL RWY 26 NOT AVBL
FROM 06 302307 TO 10 010700 EST
(Current owner unwilling to restore to operational standard
- never to be serviceable)
C117/02 REVIEW C56/02
TWY SIERRA NOT AVBL DUE ACFT PARKING.
FROM 07 290222 TO 10 300200 EST
(Graveyard of 7 BAE 146's - more money in storage than flying)
Says it all really!!
As a lad from the country, when we visited Melbourne I'd drag
the old man out to EN just to watch the hurly burly.
It's hard to believe the hardware they could fit into the centre
apron. I recall the first DC9 doing ILS and O/S training prior
to going into service (1966??). Couldn't believe the performance
(obviously on two engines and lightweight) and the NOISE.
The locals loved it. Not like the yuppie cancer that's invading
the boundary now. The saddest memory is of the three perfectly
serviceable IPEC Argosys being reduced to bite sized pieces by
a prehistoric monster like machine with a giant pincer claw
up front. What a defilement of history.
The aerodrome still has lots to offer, unfortunately it
appears that aviation will not play much of a part in its future.
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Ahhhh the Argosy.
The forty tonne dog whistle.
We lived in Balwyn more or less on the WON PLE track and on a still night the dogs would start barking some minutes before YOU could hear it bringing the freight home.
My son, then 5, used to call it the "that aeroplane with the big head and two tails, that makes Fido cross "
The forty tonne dog whistle.
We lived in Balwyn more or less on the WON PLE track and on a still night the dogs would start barking some minutes before YOU could hear it bringing the freight home.
My son, then 5, used to call it the "that aeroplane with the big head and two tails, that makes Fido cross "
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Links to Australia's
Anti-Airport Groups #1
Anti-Airport Groups #2
Interesting
No Badgerys Creek! No Kingsford Smith!
Oh yes those memories........if you (Claret, EWL et al) would like some great memories, try a websie called:
http://www.airliners.net/
In the keywords area type in say 'Trans Australia Airlines' and behold the feast of memories there. Beautiful Electra and Viscount shots, marvellous EN shots of the crowded tarman. DC6's, new delivery DC9's the works.
Specifically there is a photographer George Canciani who must have spent all of the 60s and 70s snapping at that airport and Tulla bless him. I sent him a thankyou email for posting all those photos for our enjoyment and I'm sure you will too after seeing them.
http://www.airliners.net/
In the keywords area type in say 'Trans Australia Airlines' and behold the feast of memories there. Beautiful Electra and Viscount shots, marvellous EN shots of the crowded tarman. DC6's, new delivery DC9's the works.
Specifically there is a photographer George Canciani who must have spent all of the 60s and 70s snapping at that airport and Tulla bless him. I sent him a thankyou email for posting all those photos for our enjoyment and I'm sure you will too after seeing them.
Here goes......copy this amazingly long link, paste it into your address bar and see if it takes you directly there.........
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...%3D&static=yes
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...%3D&static=yes
Yes it seems to work, here's one of my favourites from the site, you'll love it:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...%3D&static=yes
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...%3D&static=yes
second last one:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...tic=yes&size=L
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...tic=yes&size=L