NJS-717s ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NJS-717s ?
Wednesdays West Australian
Qantas cranks up overhaul
By Geoffrey Thomas
QANTAS Airways is close to unveiling a major rationalisation and upgrade of its QantasLink regional jet service, including those in WA.
QantasLink is made up of five separate entities, Southern Australia in Melbourne, Eastern Australia in Sydney, Sunstate in Brisbane, QantasLink in Perth and the Sydney-based Air Connex, which is the former Impulse Airlines.
Insiders at Qantas say the group is moving to just two basic operations - one for its 32 Dash 8 commuter turbo-props and the other for the Boeing 717 and BAe 146 jets.
In WA, National Jet Systems (NJS) operates five BAe 146 jets for QantasLink to destinations such as Port Hedland, Newman, Parrabadoo, Karratha and Kalgoorlie as well as another nine BAe 146s around Australia for QantasLink. NJS is the second biggest airline group in Australia with 46 jets and 1000 staff.
Qantas, however, is keen to replace the ageing 85-seat, four-engine BAe 146 jets with bigger 106-seat, twin-jet Boeing 717s, which have proved extremely economical and popular with passengers.
The airline inherited eight 717s when it bought Impulse Airlines a year ago and has just leased another six, worth $360 million at list prices, which are being delivered now, and it is negotiating with Boeing for another batch of 10, valued at $600 million.
When the six new 717s are delivered, QantasLink's fleet will top 76 aircraft. It operates 2500 flights a week and employs 2000 staff.
The drive to rationalise the operation is coming from the increased importance of combating Virgin Blue's lower cost structure as QantasLink pilots and crews are on similar wage structures to Virgin Blue's flight crews.
Sources at Qantas suggest it is likely NJS, which is owned by UK-based Cobham Group, will start operating 717s for QantasLink.
Qantas also plans to expand Cairns as a QantasLink destination with the launch of Australian Airlines in October this year from Cairns. This would provide a low-cost operation to bring tourists into Cairns and then on to other tourist destinations, such as Alice Springs and Tasmania.
In WA, Qantas has had a two-pronged approach using 156-seat Boeing 737s to major centres such as Kalgoorlie, Karratha and Broome under the Qantas banner and the QantasLink BAe 146s to smaller centres.
Under the rationalisation the 737 flights would continue and be expanded, while 717s would replace the BAe 146s.
Qantas cranks up overhaul
By Geoffrey Thomas
QANTAS Airways is close to unveiling a major rationalisation and upgrade of its QantasLink regional jet service, including those in WA.
QantasLink is made up of five separate entities, Southern Australia in Melbourne, Eastern Australia in Sydney, Sunstate in Brisbane, QantasLink in Perth and the Sydney-based Air Connex, which is the former Impulse Airlines.
Insiders at Qantas say the group is moving to just two basic operations - one for its 32 Dash 8 commuter turbo-props and the other for the Boeing 717 and BAe 146 jets.
In WA, National Jet Systems (NJS) operates five BAe 146 jets for QantasLink to destinations such as Port Hedland, Newman, Parrabadoo, Karratha and Kalgoorlie as well as another nine BAe 146s around Australia for QantasLink. NJS is the second biggest airline group in Australia with 46 jets and 1000 staff.
Qantas, however, is keen to replace the ageing 85-seat, four-engine BAe 146 jets with bigger 106-seat, twin-jet Boeing 717s, which have proved extremely economical and popular with passengers.
The airline inherited eight 717s when it bought Impulse Airlines a year ago and has just leased another six, worth $360 million at list prices, which are being delivered now, and it is negotiating with Boeing for another batch of 10, valued at $600 million.
When the six new 717s are delivered, QantasLink's fleet will top 76 aircraft. It operates 2500 flights a week and employs 2000 staff.
The drive to rationalise the operation is coming from the increased importance of combating Virgin Blue's lower cost structure as QantasLink pilots and crews are on similar wage structures to Virgin Blue's flight crews.
Sources at Qantas suggest it is likely NJS, which is owned by UK-based Cobham Group, will start operating 717s for QantasLink.
Qantas also plans to expand Cairns as a QantasLink destination with the launch of Australian Airlines in October this year from Cairns. This would provide a low-cost operation to bring tourists into Cairns and then on to other tourist destinations, such as Alice Springs and Tasmania.
In WA, Qantas has had a two-pronged approach using 156-seat Boeing 737s to major centres such as Kalgoorlie, Karratha and Broome under the Qantas banner and the QantasLink BAe 146s to smaller centres.
Under the rationalisation the 737 flights would continue and be expanded, while 717s would replace the BAe 146s.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We still need to watch out for some major changes in NJS. Cobham only want the coast watch, Qantas want fleet renewal and the new hangars are equipping for 737-800.
How long until we see Adelaide and Brisbane as third party maintanance facilaties for Qantas / Virgin Blue737's and our flgh crew group absorbed into "one Qantaslink" ?
How long until we see Adelaide and Brisbane as third party maintanance facilaties for Qantas / Virgin Blue737's and our flgh crew group absorbed into "one Qantaslink" ?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Honkers
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Insiders at Qantas have been saying that Impulse will operate the B717's in WA, and employ direct entry Captains and FO's from off the Bae146 to cope with the rapid expansion.
They want to keep the whole operation under the QantasLink operation, with everyone employed within the Qantas subsidiaries.
They want to keep the whole operation under the QantasLink operation, with everyone employed within the Qantas subsidiaries.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought people were saying that the 717 is unsuitable for the ops that the 146 are doing in the west.
Anyone out there actually know performance wise if the 717 can do the job?????
Anyone out there actually know performance wise if the 717 can do the job?????
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other rumour doing the rounds at the moment, in relation to this topic, is that NJS maintenance will be doing the 717 heavy maintenance.
Must say, agree with some of the posts above. Unless, of course, Impulse take over the NJS runs completely. After all, if you have a contractor, it's much easier to say 'thanks we don't need you any more' when the contract is about to expire than if they're directly employed by you.
Must say, agree with some of the posts above. Unless, of course, Impulse take over the NJS runs completely. After all, if you have a contractor, it's much easier to say 'thanks we don't need you any more' when the contract is about to expire than if they're directly employed by you.
flipside, I understand the B717 is somewhat restricted at some ports and over some routes, but it can haul a BAe146 load out of these ports and carry the goods over the distance required.
I am told the starting point for a practical B717 operation in Australian hot/high conditions is 1500M
I still have some DC9-30 charts and I know the B717 with the 'small' engine leaves the DC9-30 for dead.
I am told the starting point for a practical B717 operation in Australian hot/high conditions is 1500M
I still have some DC9-30 charts and I know the B717 with the 'small' engine leaves the DC9-30 for dead.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dlembe56,
regarding the ease of getting rid of contractors compared to those employed directly they do not seem to be having to much difficulty saying "see ya later" to 50 odd 1900 drivers (except for an exact date)
regarding the ease of getting rid of contractors compared to those employed directly they do not seem to be having to much difficulty saying "see ya later" to 50 odd 1900 drivers (except for an exact date)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: ???
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not so long ago, when rumours were flying thick and fast at NJS, the rumour re FR wanting to get rid of the "airline" side of things went around. A company newsletter came out in an attempt to stop some of the rumours that were going around including the one about FR wanting to sell the airline component. D.M. included her phone number - both office and mobile and made a request that if anyone heard any rumour to call her directly and find out what was really going on, rather than let things get blown out of proportion.
I like to think positively that our jobs are safe. I read the article yesterday and was quite excited at the prospect of us getting rid of those chemical bombs and getting something lovely, shiny and new like the 717's. But after reading the posts on this thread I don't feel quite so optimistic. I hope our jobs are safe and if we are "taken over" then the crews will go too.
Can anyone that REALLY know's anything comment on this development? When I say REALLY knows, I mean someone who has heard from the horses mouth, not from mere galley gossip.
I may take D.M. up on her offer and call her tomorrow and find out for myself.
I like to think positively that our jobs are safe. I read the article yesterday and was quite excited at the prospect of us getting rid of those chemical bombs and getting something lovely, shiny and new like the 717's. But after reading the posts on this thread I don't feel quite so optimistic. I hope our jobs are safe and if we are "taken over" then the crews will go too.
Can anyone that REALLY know's anything comment on this development? When I say REALLY knows, I mean someone who has heard from the horses mouth, not from mere galley gossip.
I may take D.M. up on her offer and call her tomorrow and find out for myself.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Honkers
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAPT146,
The current base pay rates for the B717 are :-
Captain $115,000
First Officer $69,000
Obviously there are add ons for check and training and the likes, and there are pay rises negotiated in their EBA which comes up for renewal in 3 years time.
The current base pay rates for the B717 are :-
Captain $115,000
First Officer $69,000
Obviously there are add ons for check and training and the likes, and there are pay rises negotiated in their EBA which comes up for renewal in 3 years time.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Cart Tart, but when Impulse took over Southern's runs into Tasmania no-one was given the opportunity to stay and crew the brand new shiny planes. They were simply shifted elsewhere, in what can now be seen, with the benefit of hindsight, as a stop gap measure. The markings have now been painted on the tarmac in Canberra for the 717s and once again, no-one is being given the opportunity to go to Impulse. If Qantas treat its employees like this, what hope have the contractors got.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The whole QantasLink saga is a bit like a bomb going off... bits flying in all directions and nobody knows where/if they will land.
There will have to be a lot of give and take before it is all sorted out. At the end of the day I would expect there will be ONE QL pilot list which will include SS SA EA and IMP. Any new hires would be on the bottom of the list. It wont be a Y but some funny sort of W with a tail.
At the end of the day it will most likely cost QF more than it does now. There is already a great standoff between various engineering groups.
One can only guess what will happen to NJS, but it seems likely that as the aircraft leases expire they will not be renewed, unless somthing else comes out of the hat! Over the next 5 years most of the leases will expire and unless QF decide on another type (only one other on the list)it is certainly likely that the red tail 146's will fade away.
As for the places where the 717 may be limited, I think you will see the 737... eg BRM.
Oh for a crystal ball......
There will have to be a lot of give and take before it is all sorted out. At the end of the day I would expect there will be ONE QL pilot list which will include SS SA EA and IMP. Any new hires would be on the bottom of the list. It wont be a Y but some funny sort of W with a tail.
At the end of the day it will most likely cost QF more than it does now. There is already a great standoff between various engineering groups.
One can only guess what will happen to NJS, but it seems likely that as the aircraft leases expire they will not be renewed, unless somthing else comes out of the hat! Over the next 5 years most of the leases will expire and unless QF decide on another type (only one other on the list)it is certainly likely that the red tail 146's will fade away.
As for the places where the 717 may be limited, I think you will see the 737... eg BRM.
Oh for a crystal ball......
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who really knows what is going to happen, except Geoff Dixon and the QF Board?
The way they are going, my long term prediction is that the QF hierachy are planning to ease "Australian Airlines" along with its Impulse subsidiary back into the domestic scene with cheaper labour to cover costs for cheaper fares. How else would they be able to compete against Virgin who pay their pilots and FAs significantly less than QF employees and are expanding day by day? This will further reduce loads on QF while trying to compete in a discount market.
Ultimately, this will mean phasing out QF domestic all together and maybe some of the other subsidiaries where overheads (read pilot and flight attendant salaries) outway returns on operating costs.
The game has changed and cheap air fares are here to stay. If you pay your employees more than you get in return, then you are going to go broke.
Therefore, I would say that Australian Airlines, Impulse and even NJS would have a reasonable future because they don't plan to pay exorbidant wages like QF do at present.
Well that's my assessment as an "old" guy with over 40 years in the industry, where I have seen many changes since Reg Ansett bought out our other overseas airline Australian National Airways (many didn't know that it travelled overseas in support of Cathay and BPAC).
The way they are going, my long term prediction is that the QF hierachy are planning to ease "Australian Airlines" along with its Impulse subsidiary back into the domestic scene with cheaper labour to cover costs for cheaper fares. How else would they be able to compete against Virgin who pay their pilots and FAs significantly less than QF employees and are expanding day by day? This will further reduce loads on QF while trying to compete in a discount market.
Ultimately, this will mean phasing out QF domestic all together and maybe some of the other subsidiaries where overheads (read pilot and flight attendant salaries) outway returns on operating costs.
The game has changed and cheap air fares are here to stay. If you pay your employees more than you get in return, then you are going to go broke.
Therefore, I would say that Australian Airlines, Impulse and even NJS would have a reasonable future because they don't plan to pay exorbidant wages like QF do at present.
Well that's my assessment as an "old" guy with over 40 years in the industry, where I have seen many changes since Reg Ansett bought out our other overseas airline Australian National Airways (many didn't know that it travelled overseas in support of Cathay and BPAC).
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any positive news from the Southern's 146 crews?
Has Qantaslink offered you anything? Best of luck finding a more considerate employer. There is a big wide world outside of "Qantas Land" and it's a lot more fun (and better managed it would seem).
AA
Has Qantaslink offered you anything? Best of luck finding a more considerate employer. There is a big wide world outside of "Qantas Land" and it's a lot more fun (and better managed it would seem).
AA
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMO NJS is here to stay. Its too big now over 200 pilots and 300 floght attendants. Its a big organisation and has made alot of money for QANTAS, QF managment like dealing with them as they have that "yes Sir", " whatever you say sir", nothing s to much trouble attitude( read bum licking). But who can knock them they are not perfect but who is. And as they like to point out they have never laid off anyone of in 12 years. Show me another "contractor" who can boast that. QF need them and they need QF.
I am very upset for the Southern guys but what could be done. The 146 operation was not cost effective (only 3 aircraft). All major maintenance was done by NJS and all the A/C were on NJS's AOC. I know SAA is a great organisation and everone there worked very hard to make it work, but lets be realistic it was only ever set up as insurance against NJS going bad. In the end it was simple economics that ended it all. Not so simple for all there great employees, the whole intergration thing has not been thought out at all from the personel point of view. IMO I still think that 90% of people will still be found work in the QFlink network. What the final picture will look like is anyones guess!
I am very upset for the Southern guys but what could be done. The 146 operation was not cost effective (only 3 aircraft). All major maintenance was done by NJS and all the A/C were on NJS's AOC. I know SAA is a great organisation and everone there worked very hard to make it work, but lets be realistic it was only ever set up as insurance against NJS going bad. In the end it was simple economics that ended it all. Not so simple for all there great employees, the whole intergration thing has not been thought out at all from the personel point of view. IMO I still think that 90% of people will still be found work in the QFlink network. What the final picture will look like is anyones guess!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAPT146,
You might want to research your info a bit better
" they have never laid off anyone in 12 years"
my sources told me to ask what happened to B.B., J.N., M.N., I could name a few more for you if you like
You might want to research your info a bit better
" they have never laid off anyone in 12 years"
my sources told me to ask what happened to B.B., J.N., M.N., I could name a few more for you if you like
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAPT 146
SAA Aircraft were on SAA AOC and making money
Further more no one in QF can come up with any figures on paper as to the economics of the SAA shutdown.
It was a badly thought out, managed and possibly political exercise over which a few people should be sacked for the stress it has and is causing to the SAA staff.
SAA Aircraft were on SAA AOC and making money
Further more no one in QF can come up with any figures on paper as to the economics of the SAA shutdown.
It was a badly thought out, managed and possibly political exercise over which a few people should be sacked for the stress it has and is causing to the SAA staff.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oztraya
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately I can't see a rosy future for NJS.
Why would Qantas create a second 717 operator when they are hell bent on making one Dash 8 operator.
It doesn't fit with their current delusion, sorry, business model.
Why would Qantas create a second 717 operator when they are hell bent on making one Dash 8 operator.
It doesn't fit with their current delusion, sorry, business model.