Why is it so hard to find good pilets?
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BENDO DONT DO IT, YOULL NEVER GET THE BALL AND CHAIN OFF!!! 
Know the feeling but mate, hope things are well on your side of Oz!
Suppose the invites in the mail BTW Bucks party. Just remember what the result was last time we had a bender!
Good to hear from ya mate!
Know the feeling but mate, hope things are well on your side of Oz!
Suppose the invites in the mail
BTW Bucks party. Just remember what the result was last time we had a bender!Good to hear from ya mate!
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Bendo and Bucks Partys
Sounds like Bendo has a reputation, I have some great photos of him and some other trouble maker up to no good at my bucks party in San Francisco. One of 'em ended up in the 7th Street lock up that night.
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So any of you guys that have offered your pileting services get any reply yet? This guy sounds like a bit of a joker. Hard to find a good piston driver that wants to go to turbines? Perhaps you are not looking in the right place. By the way what makes you a good judge of a good pilot? Do you think you are one yourself? Here is another suggestion.....maybe no pilot wants to fly for your company, for one reason or another.
What kind of turbine does your company operate by the way? Come on give us some info. Not having a go or anything mate but you made a quite ludicrous suggestion.
What kind of turbine does your company operate by the way? Come on give us some info. Not having a go or anything mate but you made a quite ludicrous suggestion.
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Gettin back to pikelets, what is the difrence between them and pancakes (apart from them bein smaller)? Mum made plentey of pancakes but never made pikelets. She would buy them from the store.
Is it the amount of eggs or somethin?
Is it the amount of eggs or somethin?
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Is not a wind up
Despite all the knocking, this post is not a wind up...
This industry runs on rumour and inendo, and plenty of gossip mongers are in this forum.......
But that's okay we know who we are and encourage keen aspirants to join something new.
This industry runs on rumour and inendo, and plenty of gossip mongers are in this forum.......
But that's okay we know who we are and encourage keen aspirants to join something new.
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This does sound too good to be true, and lackof, you have got me thinking that it may very well be who you beleive it to be.
Why can't they find any good pilets, if it is the company that people beleive it to be then the answer is obvious. All the good pilots, sorry pilets, have run off to other job where they get treated properly.
Sure airline wages are not to be expected flying a C210/C206/C207 etc etc, but at the very least, a person, not just pilots, SHOULD be paid, and treated, AS PER THE AWARD!!
But it is odd, if you can score a job with a company at 350 hrs, and have a chance to progress onto a turbine, i don't see why pilets aren't jumping at it, a few years ago i would have!!
Hey pullpowa, give all of us a run down on your fleet, it may help pull in a few more to chose from. Remember, variety is the spice of life!!
Why can't they find any good pilets, if it is the company that people beleive it to be then the answer is obvious. All the good pilots, sorry pilets, have run off to other job where they get treated properly.
Sure airline wages are not to be expected flying a C210/C206/C207 etc etc, but at the very least, a person, not just pilots, SHOULD be paid, and treated, AS PER THE AWARD!!
But it is odd, if you can score a job with a company at 350 hrs, and have a chance to progress onto a turbine, i don't see why pilets aren't jumping at it, a few years ago i would have!!
Hey pullpowa, give all of us a run down on your fleet, it may help pull in a few more to chose from. Remember, variety is the spice of life!!
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150 multy
inital turbine
lot of multi endorsments,
pa-31
c340
pa-23
pn-68
b55
c402
bn-2
c310
pa-34
c208
inital turbine
lot of multi endorsments,
pa-31
c340
pa-23
pn-68
b55
c402
bn-2
c310
pa-34
c208
That's why they are not getting work. You actually need experience on type, rather than just having the endorsement....
Good luck
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Slasher
Ya gotta beat sugar in with butter first til its dissolved.
Then ya make the pancake mixture.
I can see this happening down a your local rat dim sim outlet
Gettin back to pikelets, what is the difrence between them and pancakes (apart from them bein smaller)? Mum made plentey of pancakes but never made pikelets. She would buy them from the store.
Then ya make the pancake mixture.
I can see this happening down a your local rat dim sim outlet
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I think you are all missing the point here, what pullpower is looking for are GOOD PILETS .
That is someone how can fly a GA aircraft to timbucktoo and back without any fuss. Can do 10 landings a day in a piston twin without flat spotting a tyre. Can go on a 1 hour flight at night with 1.15 + 0.75 hours of fuel. Someone who won't whinge at 11 PM because they just got called out to do a job. Someone who knows how to fly from A to B at 500' AGL under 8/8's because they know if they go on top they won't be able to get in on the approach, or knows that if they can get under a layer of cloud 20 or 30 nm from their dest, then they won't have to spend 10 minutes doing the approach.
The number of pilots who are capable of the above and similar is too bloody small to contemplate, they all reckon they are good and have done this that and the other, but when it comes to the crunch and the going gets tough the good pilot keeps going, and the average pilot starts to whinge.
I do not for a minute advocate breaking the rules which keep us alive, just knowing that there is more than one way to skin a cat, is what seperates the good from the average.
I sympathise with you pullpower, looking for a pilot is like shopping at Crazy Clarks, plenty to choose from, but the quality is lacking.
However to answer the original question "why is it so hard to find good pilots",
I believe the answer is that most pilots are more interested in themselves and amassing hours (so they can get that jet job) than they are of doing a good job or going the extra mile. Too busy trying to get to the destination rather than enjoying the journey.
That is someone how can fly a GA aircraft to timbucktoo and back without any fuss. Can do 10 landings a day in a piston twin without flat spotting a tyre. Can go on a 1 hour flight at night with 1.15 + 0.75 hours of fuel. Someone who won't whinge at 11 PM because they just got called out to do a job. Someone who knows how to fly from A to B at 500' AGL under 8/8's because they know if they go on top they won't be able to get in on the approach, or knows that if they can get under a layer of cloud 20 or 30 nm from their dest, then they won't have to spend 10 minutes doing the approach.
The number of pilots who are capable of the above and similar is too bloody small to contemplate, they all reckon they are good and have done this that and the other, but when it comes to the crunch and the going gets tough the good pilot keeps going, and the average pilot starts to whinge.
I do not for a minute advocate breaking the rules which keep us alive, just knowing that there is more than one way to skin a cat, is what seperates the good from the average.
I sympathise with you pullpower, looking for a pilot is like shopping at Crazy Clarks, plenty to choose from, but the quality is lacking.
However to answer the original question "why is it so hard to find good pilots",
I believe the answer is that most pilots are more interested in themselves and amassing hours (so they can get that jet job) than they are of doing a good job or going the extra mile. Too busy trying to get to the destination rather than enjoying the journey.
Last edited by Spinnerhead; 8th Apr 2002 at 23:08.
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That my friend is precisely the point. Thank you for putting into better words what I am trying to say.
Either lead, follow or get out of the way.
Nobody advocates breaking any rules, nothing ruins the day more than accidents, CASA and losses, but a sad thing lacking in COMMERCIAL aviation is COMMERCIAL REALITY. It's not about just flying (used to work with many pilets like that) it's about making it pay so you can comeback tomorrow and do it again....AND retire healthy, financailly secure and satisfied!
I know they are out there somewhere hence my post, as a new operation, we require more than just pilets, guys/girls out there giving it a good go, rather than just waiting for it to be delviered to them on a plate!
So spinnerhead you want to drop me an email?
" Fetch me the 9 iron please James....."
Either lead, follow or get out of the way.
Nobody advocates breaking any rules, nothing ruins the day more than accidents, CASA and losses, but a sad thing lacking in COMMERCIAL aviation is COMMERCIAL REALITY. It's not about just flying (used to work with many pilets like that) it's about making it pay so you can comeback tomorrow and do it again....AND retire healthy, financailly secure and satisfied!
I know they are out there somewhere hence my post, as a new operation, we require more than just pilets, guys/girls out there giving it a good go, rather than just waiting for it to be delviered to them on a plate!
So spinnerhead you want to drop me an email?
" Fetch me the 9 iron please James....."
Pullpowa,
Interested to know more but your email doesn't work.
Would be grateful if you could email me with your location and minimum requirements and I will send back a resume.
[email protected]
Cheers
Interested to know more but your email doesn't work.
Would be grateful if you could email me with your location and minimum requirements and I will send back a resume.
[email protected]
Cheers
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Yes that’s dead right spinnerhead and pullpowa, what grand statements you both make. Where are all these super pilots that commercial aviation in this country so desperately need?
Lets add a little truth to these statements you’ve made.
Someone who won’t whinge when called up for a job at 11pm. Why would a good, honest GA pilot whinge at this. Hell maybe even get a few night hours out of it. Maybe because the good pilot has already worked ALL FRIKKEN DAY, 7 DAYS IN A ROW AND IS ABOUT TO BUST SOME DUTY TIME! The good pilot is dam near exhausted and yet is about to take peoples lives in his/hers good pilot hands and fly exhausted halfway across the country like a STUPID DAM FOOL!
Someone who knows how to fly under 8/8ths cloud at 500 ft who inevitably ends up flying INTO THE DAM CLOUD because those fools who sent him on his way told him that the weather was fine and to get going. What do you say to the passengers then as you claw up through the murk in a single not knowing how the hell you’re going to get down again at the other end?? Its alright though, cause you’re going to get the job done, and maybe next time they will pick you again to do the job because your a GET THERE sort of person!!! AND if they go on top they won’t be able to get in on the approach, WHY?? Because the cloud base is lower than the MDA? Easy, we will fly under the cloud, i.e. under the MDA for the approach because remember we won’t get in on the normal approach. WHAT FRIKKEN HEROES!
If the number of pilots who are capable of the above stupidity is small then there is hope. This get thereitis entrenched so deeply in Australian GA and passed down the generations is a rot that needs to be cut out of the industry. Of course the rules are never broken. What a joke. You would be left a carcass swinging in the wind by your employer if the **** hit the fan.
Spinnerhead, you hit the nail on the head when you said that you believe that most pilots are interested in amassing hours, that’s exactly WHY new pilots are more likely to do stupid things to ‘impress’ the employer, thus hopefully get more hours.
Just remember, you are taught to make sound judgement and command decisions in your training, this especially extends to your personal abilities and experience. If is doesn’t look good, don’t go. Your employer shouldn’t expect anymore, especially if you are just starting out. As is so often touted on this forum, you have to learn to walk before you can run.
I think that more respect is earned from saying no than from being a hero.
Lets add a little truth to these statements you’ve made.
Someone who won’t whinge when called up for a job at 11pm. Why would a good, honest GA pilot whinge at this. Hell maybe even get a few night hours out of it. Maybe because the good pilot has already worked ALL FRIKKEN DAY, 7 DAYS IN A ROW AND IS ABOUT TO BUST SOME DUTY TIME! The good pilot is dam near exhausted and yet is about to take peoples lives in his/hers good pilot hands and fly exhausted halfway across the country like a STUPID DAM FOOL!
Someone who knows how to fly under 8/8ths cloud at 500 ft who inevitably ends up flying INTO THE DAM CLOUD because those fools who sent him on his way told him that the weather was fine and to get going. What do you say to the passengers then as you claw up through the murk in a single not knowing how the hell you’re going to get down again at the other end?? Its alright though, cause you’re going to get the job done, and maybe next time they will pick you again to do the job because your a GET THERE sort of person!!! AND if they go on top they won’t be able to get in on the approach, WHY?? Because the cloud base is lower than the MDA? Easy, we will fly under the cloud, i.e. under the MDA for the approach because remember we won’t get in on the normal approach. WHAT FRIKKEN HEROES!
If the number of pilots who are capable of the above stupidity is small then there is hope. This get thereitis entrenched so deeply in Australian GA and passed down the generations is a rot that needs to be cut out of the industry. Of course the rules are never broken. What a joke. You would be left a carcass swinging in the wind by your employer if the **** hit the fan.
Spinnerhead, you hit the nail on the head when you said that you believe that most pilots are interested in amassing hours, that’s exactly WHY new pilots are more likely to do stupid things to ‘impress’ the employer, thus hopefully get more hours.
Just remember, you are taught to make sound judgement and command decisions in your training, this especially extends to your personal abilities and experience. If is doesn’t look good, don’t go. Your employer shouldn’t expect anymore, especially if you are just starting out. As is so often touted on this forum, you have to learn to walk before you can run.
I think that more respect is earned from saying no than from being a hero.
I'm with you No Slave!
I have met a lot of guys who were genuine pains in the butt when it came to non stop complaining about their working conditions. Of course its not going to be easy but I can vividly remember the feeling of being backed into the corner:
a) Go and do the flight. Log a couple of extra hours. Scare yourself sh!tless. Get paid. Keep your job for another week. Chalk it up to experience.
or....
b) Tell the boss that it isn't a good idea because:
i) It is against the rules.
ii) It isn't safe.
iii) You don't fully trust the machinery you are flying.
If you choose option b - off to work nightfill or behind the bar for another season (maybe more when word gets out).
If you go for option a (and we all have
at one time or another) - the boss is happy for a while. Until the next time, when it is even harder to say no because you have set the precedent.
The consequences of this may be negligable for most of us. Some have ended up as statistics but the legacy is that we have just set the standard for the next batch of new guys coming through. If we can bend a rule here, why cant we stretch one there?
It is very easy to tell which guys are in the industry for money and who is here for aviation in one form or another.
I have met a lot of guys who were genuine pains in the butt when it came to non stop complaining about their working conditions. Of course its not going to be easy but I can vividly remember the feeling of being backed into the corner:
a) Go and do the flight. Log a couple of extra hours. Scare yourself sh!tless. Get paid. Keep your job for another week. Chalk it up to experience.
or....
b) Tell the boss that it isn't a good idea because:
i) It is against the rules.
ii) It isn't safe.
iii) You don't fully trust the machinery you are flying.
If you choose option b - off to work nightfill or behind the bar for another season (maybe more when word gets out).
If you go for option a (and we all have
at one time or another) - the boss is happy for a while. Until the next time, when it is even harder to say no because you have set the precedent.The consequences of this may be negligable for most of us. Some have ended up as statistics but the legacy is that we have just set the standard for the next batch of new guys coming through. If we can bend a rule here, why cant we stretch one there?
It is very easy to tell which guys are in the industry for money and who is here for aviation in one form or another.
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No Slave is just about right on.
It has always been thus, the only difference between you guys down under and us guys up here is we are usually sleeping while you guys are out there playing russian roulette with your weather, airplanes, loads etc.
If there was the political will a lot of this intimidation of "Pilets" could be avoided.
The best way to cut down on this type of risk taking is to charge the operator as well as the pilets, to ensure fairness in such proceedings an Aviation Tribunal could be set up to hear such cases.
If convicted the penalty must reflect the seriousness of the offence.
Cat Driver:
................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
It has always been thus, the only difference between you guys down under and us guys up here is we are usually sleeping while you guys are out there playing russian roulette with your weather, airplanes, loads etc.
If there was the political will a lot of this intimidation of "Pilets" could be avoided.
The best way to cut down on this type of risk taking is to charge the operator as well as the pilets, to ensure fairness in such proceedings an Aviation Tribunal could be set up to hear such cases.
If convicted the penalty must reflect the seriousness of the offence.
Cat Driver:
................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Just wondering if you chaps actually read my initial post.
I understand fully the implications of a safety based culture, implemented a safety programme that revealed some shortcomings in senior staff at my former place of employment.....
So Im not a person who just says "right you are" and launches...
You may have noted I indicated retiring safely from this industry, not as spam in a can....
What I'm alluded to is all the "rights" that people insist upon, yet there appears no level of COMMERCIAL ACUMEN, no desire to get out there and build something so that it prospers. There are companies around that offer that opportunity, I was lucky enough to become involved in one! An organisation that doesnt milk you dry.....
So I return to the original question...
I understand fully the implications of a safety based culture, implemented a safety programme that revealed some shortcomings in senior staff at my former place of employment.....
So Im not a person who just says "right you are" and launches...
You may have noted I indicated retiring safely from this industry, not as spam in a can....
What I'm alluded to is all the "rights" that people insist upon, yet there appears no level of COMMERCIAL ACUMEN, no desire to get out there and build something so that it prospers. There are companies around that offer that opportunity, I was lucky enough to become involved in one! An organisation that doesnt milk you dry.....
So I return to the original question...
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Well pull I did read your original post, I also read the one where you were in agreeance with spinerhead.
NO SLAVE. You are right on the money mate, I could not agree more with your statements.
Spinner let me ask you something mate. For someone to be doing the job you describe dont you think that they should be paid well and kept in good conditions? I was in the NT working my ring off, did I complain? No not at first, when I heard the other boys complaining I could not imagine why. I mean I was working 12 hours a day and getting paid $AU150 per week, hell I was lucky, at least I had a job.
It wasnt till I had been there a while and I realised that the work I was doing was making big money for the company and its chief pikelet, and I was not seeing any of it. Then the complaints started to flow. I am sure most of you will know who I am talking about. Let me tell you there is not many a happy pilot up there at the moment. I worked with these guys and did ICUS with them. They are all good pilots. I can not recall many times when any of us turned down a flight. If the weather was bad we would wait down at the airport for it to clear enough to have a go. But you could always expect to hear "Yeah ***** you on chennel" then "Yeah why arnt you virtually airborne yet" So you would have to make up something about not being able to find the pax.
Look I am going to cut this short I could go on for ever. To finnish up.
Was I there for the hours and only that? Yes
Did I work hard and do a good job? I think we all did.
Did we get rewarded? No
Do I think the company got its moneys worth from me?Yes
Did I ever turn down a flight or turn back for any reason? Once in just over a year.
Anyway good luck to you boys still up there, I know you are trying so hope you get out of there soon. I really feel for those working the "Golden Triangle" NGU-RRB-UPG
NO SLAVE. You are right on the money mate, I could not agree more with your statements.
Spinner let me ask you something mate. For someone to be doing the job you describe dont you think that they should be paid well and kept in good conditions? I was in the NT working my ring off, did I complain? No not at first, when I heard the other boys complaining I could not imagine why. I mean I was working 12 hours a day and getting paid $AU150 per week, hell I was lucky, at least I had a job.
It wasnt till I had been there a while and I realised that the work I was doing was making big money for the company and its chief pikelet, and I was not seeing any of it. Then the complaints started to flow. I am sure most of you will know who I am talking about. Let me tell you there is not many a happy pilot up there at the moment. I worked with these guys and did ICUS with them. They are all good pilots. I can not recall many times when any of us turned down a flight. If the weather was bad we would wait down at the airport for it to clear enough to have a go. But you could always expect to hear "Yeah ***** you on chennel" then "Yeah why arnt you virtually airborne yet" So you would have to make up something about not being able to find the pax.
Look I am going to cut this short I could go on for ever. To finnish up.
Was I there for the hours and only that? Yes
Did I work hard and do a good job? I think we all did.
Did we get rewarded? No
Do I think the company got its moneys worth from me?Yes
Did I ever turn down a flight or turn back for any reason? Once in just over a year.
Anyway good luck to you boys still up there, I know you are trying so hope you get out of there soon. I really feel for those working the "Golden Triangle" NGU-RRB-UPG