Future of Virgin Blue in Doubt??
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Future of Virgin Blue in Doubt??
Having spoken last night to a friend that accurately forecasted the demise of Ansett within a 5 day period (and all the abuse I copped off Ansett guys on this site) he predicted something similar to Virgin Blue.
His reasons?
1. Virgin Blue is expanding onto what will be unprofitable routes for the short to medium term.
This will put extreme pressure on their balance book.
2. The supposed $50 million war chest boasted about by Brett Godfrey to sustain them has been taken offshore to service a very desperate Sir Richard Branson.
3. Although having expanded since Ansett's demise they are barely profitable if at all - just barely keeping their heads above water.
4. Virgin Blue's labour costs are increasing due to more staff required and their government funding in payroll concessions rapidly running out.
5. Without accessibility to terminal facilities in Sydney/Melbourne/Canberra/Launceston this will severly restrict their ability to expand,profit and service their customers.
It will also cost them alot more money resulting in more staff to be hired.
Brett Godfrey knows this and is understandably bleating as per usual.
It is imperative to their future and they know this.
6. Sir RB is in a desperate position.Virgin Transport is in dire straits after the accident and fire in Paddington (London) last year and the large loss of life and subsequent massive law suits pending.
Virgin Atlantic is haemorrhaging funds,their loads are critically low and looking even worse for the forseeable future.
They are locked into wide-bodied aircraft deliveries of 1 per month for the next two years and cant get out of the responsibility - leasing these aircraft is not really an option at this time due to the world climate.They have laid off large numbers of staff and are rapidly running out of funds.
Even Richard Branson's supposed deep pockets are about to be tested.
7. Virgin Express in similar dire straits and losing money at a great rate.
I remember Sir RB ripping up a cheque for a supposed $250 million from Ansett some 4 months back - this surely must rank in hindsight as the Darwin awards amongst the aviation management community.
He is now so desperate he has taken VB's "war chest" overseas and is desperate to sell VB to whoever can afford and is willing to buy all/part of it.
4 months ago this would have been laughable.
On the upside this analyst said that VB may survive if they gain terminal space through some sort of commercial agreement and perhaps tie-up with say Ansett II.
This makes sense to all parties but will it ever come to fruition?
Time will tell and I hope all parties will survive and prosper in the future and no one loses their jobs or livelihood.
His reasons?
1. Virgin Blue is expanding onto what will be unprofitable routes for the short to medium term.
This will put extreme pressure on their balance book.
2. The supposed $50 million war chest boasted about by Brett Godfrey to sustain them has been taken offshore to service a very desperate Sir Richard Branson.
3. Although having expanded since Ansett's demise they are barely profitable if at all - just barely keeping their heads above water.
4. Virgin Blue's labour costs are increasing due to more staff required and their government funding in payroll concessions rapidly running out.
5. Without accessibility to terminal facilities in Sydney/Melbourne/Canberra/Launceston this will severly restrict their ability to expand,profit and service their customers.
It will also cost them alot more money resulting in more staff to be hired.
Brett Godfrey knows this and is understandably bleating as per usual.
It is imperative to their future and they know this.
6. Sir RB is in a desperate position.Virgin Transport is in dire straits after the accident and fire in Paddington (London) last year and the large loss of life and subsequent massive law suits pending.
Virgin Atlantic is haemorrhaging funds,their loads are critically low and looking even worse for the forseeable future.
They are locked into wide-bodied aircraft deliveries of 1 per month for the next two years and cant get out of the responsibility - leasing these aircraft is not really an option at this time due to the world climate.They have laid off large numbers of staff and are rapidly running out of funds.
Even Richard Branson's supposed deep pockets are about to be tested.
7. Virgin Express in similar dire straits and losing money at a great rate.
I remember Sir RB ripping up a cheque for a supposed $250 million from Ansett some 4 months back - this surely must rank in hindsight as the Darwin awards amongst the aviation management community.
He is now so desperate he has taken VB's "war chest" overseas and is desperate to sell VB to whoever can afford and is willing to buy all/part of it.
4 months ago this would have been laughable.
On the upside this analyst said that VB may survive if they gain terminal space through some sort of commercial agreement and perhaps tie-up with say Ansett II.
This makes sense to all parties but will it ever come to fruition?
Time will tell and I hope all parties will survive and prosper in the future and no one loses their jobs or livelihood.
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All you smug VB people start updating your CV and you will see exactly how it feels to have everything around you go to hell.
Virgin are proud of Ansett's demise, but they are not in a financial position to be so bold.
It's about time someone BENT THEM OVER!
GO FOX/LEW. Don't forget who was there when VB first started and didn't have stairs to get off the plane...what a bunch of disorganised clowns..but who saved the day??
The public could not care less about the aviation warfare...they just want:
1. To be on time(not held up by manual screening)
2. Safety, including xray machines (not some security guard sifting through their luggage)HOW UNDIGNIFIED!
3. People don't like being at stand off either, especially with the storm season coming up
People care about their own comfort, not what fox/lew is doing to the POMMIE CARRIER
Virgin, GET OVER IT, get some independance and build your own f#*$$$$ terminals.
And hire a professional to advertise for you...those ad's with the cat scream of true desperation
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: GWPSOR ]
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: GWPSOR ]
Virgin are proud of Ansett's demise, but they are not in a financial position to be so bold.
It's about time someone BENT THEM OVER!
GO FOX/LEW. Don't forget who was there when VB first started and didn't have stairs to get off the plane...what a bunch of disorganised clowns..but who saved the day??
The public could not care less about the aviation warfare...they just want:
1. To be on time(not held up by manual screening)
2. Safety, including xray machines (not some security guard sifting through their luggage)HOW UNDIGNIFIED!
3. People don't like being at stand off either, especially with the storm season coming up
People care about their own comfort, not what fox/lew is doing to the POMMIE CARRIER
Virgin, GET OVER IT, get some independance and build your own f#*$$$$ terminals.
And hire a professional to advertise for you...those ad's with the cat scream of true desperation
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: GWPSOR ]
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: GWPSOR ]
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GPS(whatever)
Round and round the industry merri-go-round goes. It always has and always will. The secret is to show your fellow aviators and countrymen for that matter the due respect they deserve.
The ride will keep going. Some days are diamonds and some are dog****. Be nice and if we all share the diamonds and dog**** around evenly then maybe no individual will have to carry all the dog****!
Lighten up and smile, you have 2 arms, 2 legs and live in a great country!
Round and round the industry merri-go-round goes. It always has and always will. The secret is to show your fellow aviators and countrymen for that matter the due respect they deserve.
The ride will keep going. Some days are diamonds and some are dog****. Be nice and if we all share the diamonds and dog**** around evenly then maybe no individual will have to carry all the dog****!
Lighten up and smile, you have 2 arms, 2 legs and live in a great country!
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Virgin's plight is the reason for Lang's furtive bid for Ansett terminals. No doubt the liberal government egged Lang on as there is certainly no love lost between Anderson - Howard and Fox - Lew.
Does Virgin have a cash flow problem that is limiting expansion without extra terminal space etc? Are they terminally ill ?
Who knows - I guess it will remain a mystery until and if the sh*%t hits the fan.
One thing is certain and that is if AN gets up, Virgin will really need extra capitalisation in a hurry.
Maybe Branson's rejection of the earlier offer was just a little premature.
An earlier comment that DJ and AN may get into bed in some way is probably close to the truth.
This combination would really get QF's attention. And about time.
Does Virgin have a cash flow problem that is limiting expansion without extra terminal space etc? Are they terminally ill ?
Who knows - I guess it will remain a mystery until and if the sh*%t hits the fan.
One thing is certain and that is if AN gets up, Virgin will really need extra capitalisation in a hurry.
Maybe Branson's rejection of the earlier offer was just a little premature.
An earlier comment that DJ and AN may get into bed in some way is probably close to the truth.
This combination would really get QF's attention. And about time.
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Dambuster, not sure of your sources but a few items in #6 are incorrect:
1, Critically low loads, not true due to some route restructuring loads are holding up well, non US flights full in all classes and US routes making up any shortfalls with freight.
2. 1 widebody per month for next 2 years! I guess this would be the A340-600, first a/c will not be delivered until july next year at the earliest and I believe it was only firm for 8 to 10 aircraft + options.
3. Large numbers of staff laid off! A total of 1200 staff went through redundancy/unpaid leave, this is less than 20% of the workforce. BA for instance are losing just as many people as are most carriers.
The other comments are typical of information that comes from the daily newspapers (always bad news never good).
Virgin Express has no financial links with VS.
I have no doubt that RB has some juggling of finances to do at the moment and would be shocked if ANYONE in this position was any different, however give the guy a chance stop knocking him and every business he gets into. Is it because he is not a native Australian that he gets all this abuse??
I am not the #1 fan club member for RB, however I am an employee of VS and feel that the constant knocking of the various Virgin company's does little to improve our image in the public eye.
1, Critically low loads, not true due to some route restructuring loads are holding up well, non US flights full in all classes and US routes making up any shortfalls with freight.
2. 1 widebody per month for next 2 years! I guess this would be the A340-600, first a/c will not be delivered until july next year at the earliest and I believe it was only firm for 8 to 10 aircraft + options.
3. Large numbers of staff laid off! A total of 1200 staff went through redundancy/unpaid leave, this is less than 20% of the workforce. BA for instance are losing just as many people as are most carriers.
The other comments are typical of information that comes from the daily newspapers (always bad news never good).
Virgin Express has no financial links with VS.
I have no doubt that RB has some juggling of finances to do at the moment and would be shocked if ANYONE in this position was any different, however give the guy a chance stop knocking him and every business he gets into. Is it because he is not a native Australian that he gets all this abuse??
I am not the #1 fan club member for RB, however I am an employee of VS and feel that the constant knocking of the various Virgin company's does little to improve our image in the public eye.
Evertonian
I guess it all boils down to;
DJ's (Branson, SQ, Howard, Anderson, Lang) vs AN (ACTU, Fox, Lew, SQ, Administrators)
Did I miss anyone? Oh yes, us poor BA$TARDS stuck in the middle of all this BULLSHlT!!
Fark, I'm over this BIGTIME!!!
DJ's (Branson, SQ, Howard, Anderson, Lang) vs AN (ACTU, Fox, Lew, SQ, Administrators)
Did I miss anyone? Oh yes, us poor BA$TARDS stuck in the middle of all this BULLSHlT!!
Fark, I'm over this BIGTIME!!!
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Buster,
Did you miss anyone? Perhaps only us small- time unsecured creditors who just try to make a living. We have NO entitlements so are stuck at the END of all this B.S.
Sorry that this has nothing to do with the original thread, just making a point.
Hang in there!
Cheers.
Did you miss anyone? Perhaps only us small- time unsecured creditors who just try to make a living. We have NO entitlements so are stuck at the END of all this B.S.
Sorry that this has nothing to do with the original thread, just making a point.
Hang in there!
Cheers.
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Thanks for the reply people.
Full Scale - how true about the aviation round-about.
I just wonder when Qantas will be in a bind.
U Star and FL CH - yours are both exactly the same response when it was posted about Ansett having a serious liquidity problem and a short period of survival quoted.
Guys - you may not have to agree with the posting or what you hear but look at the facts that stare you in the face and assess them logically.
One good point mentioned about the stairs some time back.
The Brett Godfrey whingeing machine was turn up to force 10 about not being granted terminal space in Canberra/Launceston.
The Ansett Administrator did rightfully point out that VB had sold tickets without entering into a commercial agreement or strict business plan.
I agree its tough on VB,but why commit to something and whinge when knowing full well the administrator has no right to accept a long-term contract at this stage until the airline has been sold.
A bit like selling tickets and having no planes (as VB had happen when they stuffed up the CASA AOC paperwork and had a very expensive one month delay and put back their commencement of services).
Full Scale - how true about the aviation round-about.
I just wonder when Qantas will be in a bind.
U Star and FL CH - yours are both exactly the same response when it was posted about Ansett having a serious liquidity problem and a short period of survival quoted.
Guys - you may not have to agree with the posting or what you hear but look at the facts that stare you in the face and assess them logically.
One good point mentioned about the stairs some time back.
The Brett Godfrey whingeing machine was turn up to force 10 about not being granted terminal space in Canberra/Launceston.
The Ansett Administrator did rightfully point out that VB had sold tickets without entering into a commercial agreement or strict business plan.
I agree its tough on VB,but why commit to something and whinge when knowing full well the administrator has no right to accept a long-term contract at this stage until the airline has been sold.
A bit like selling tickets and having no planes (as VB had happen when they stuffed up the CASA AOC paperwork and had a very expensive one month delay and put back their commencement of services).
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Denzil- A few weeks ago the Ansett Administrators addressed a group of pilots in Head Office. One of the interesting things they said was, 3 days before Singapore Airlines gave Virgin Atlantic 1 billion dollars, they (Andersons), had been contracted to place Virgin Atlantic into Administration. Food for thought.
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Yes,the Ansett administrators would say that.
Wouldn't they ?
Singapore Airlines did not give VS 1 billion dollars. Richard Branson negotiated a very timely corporate deal with SQ that was beneficial to both parties. I too am not a big fan of RB but credit to him, he is a good businessman and knows aviation.
There is no doubt Freddie Laker taught him well and RB was obviously a good student.
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Whiskery ]
Wouldn't they ?
Singapore Airlines did not give VS 1 billion dollars. Richard Branson negotiated a very timely corporate deal with SQ that was beneficial to both parties. I too am not a big fan of RB but credit to him, he is a good businessman and knows aviation.
There is no doubt Freddie Laker taught him well and RB was obviously a good student.
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Whiskery ]
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As I mentioned in a previous post,there will be a bloody battle with a loser,and then there will be two players again.This battle has begun.
I have been lucky enough to be involved with keeping the AN flag waving,and from what I've seen it's difficult to see how VB are up against the ropes, as many have suggested.
But time will tell as to how all this pans out.
I also expect to be one of the fortunate one's to regain employment.This is a bitter sweet situation,but one all the bus drivers (and indeed all AN retuning employees)will grab with both hands and run.We will make this company a success,for Fox and Lew,and more importantly to see every AN pilot get their job back and quickly.
BOING BELLY.I was not at the admistrators/bus drivers meeting ,but I have spoken to a couple of the boys that were,but none mentioned about a billion dollars SQ transfered to Virgin Atlantic.
I have been lucky enough to be involved with keeping the AN flag waving,and from what I've seen it's difficult to see how VB are up against the ropes, as many have suggested.
But time will tell as to how all this pans out.
I also expect to be one of the fortunate one's to regain employment.This is a bitter sweet situation,but one all the bus drivers (and indeed all AN retuning employees)will grab with both hands and run.We will make this company a success,for Fox and Lew,and more importantly to see every AN pilot get their job back and quickly.
BOING BELLY.I was not at the admistrators/bus drivers meeting ,but I have spoken to a couple of the boys that were,but none mentioned about a billion dollars SQ transfered to Virgin Atlantic.
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Hey Thumbs Up,
Is it true that the A320 guys have negotiated a 50% pay cut to keep flying.
I heard that a group of captains approached fox and said they would work for 10 grand less than his original offer to be one of the lucky few.
FS
Is it true that the A320 guys have negotiated a 50% pay cut to keep flying.
I heard that a group of captains approached fox and said they would work for 10 grand less than his original offer to be one of the lucky few.
FS
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FARTSOCK.Let me start by saying I'm glad I'm not one of your shoes.I know thunbs up isn't an exciting handle but FARTSOCK!!!
I don't know the answer to your question about the guys working for 10 grand less.
As for what the agreement will finally look like?.We don't know that either.I believe negotiations are still taking place with Fox/Lew appointing some crack accounting firm to do his negotiations.
I don't know the answer to your question about the guys working for 10 grand less.
As for what the agreement will finally look like?.We don't know that either.I believe negotiations are still taking place with Fox/Lew appointing some crack accounting firm to do his negotiations.
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Thumbs Up - GL himself told me.The 1 bill. to Virgin along with the wad they blew in NZ as well as a not insignificant amount in India is the reason SQ will have to delay until mid next year to buy into Ansett.
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I can't believe people think VB should build their terminal space.
Ansett and Qantas have always operated from Airports built by taxpayers. While they pay fair rent for them and have no doubt put a lot of their money into renovations and extensions, the basic building was paid for by you and me.
I want Virgin Blue to enjoy the same benefits. No more and no less.
I want an even playing field and get pretty annoyed when I read about the supposed "hypocrisY" of VB asking for terminal access.
Ansett and Qantas have always operated from Airports built by taxpayers. While they pay fair rent for them and have no doubt put a lot of their money into renovations and extensions, the basic building was paid for by you and me.
I want Virgin Blue to enjoy the same benefits. No more and no less.
I want an even playing field and get pretty annoyed when I read about the supposed "hypocrisY" of VB asking for terminal access.