Pay cuts for Ansett Pilots ?
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Pay cuts for Ansett Pilots ?
As a casual observer I was just wandering if the Ansett pilots are prepared to take a large pay cut to help ensure the viability of the company. Maybe a good start would be around the $110,000 mark which is approximately the basic for a Virgin/Qpulse captain. I suppose it is better to earn 50% of something rather than 100% of nothing when the company folds !
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Are they going to have a say in the matter?
Virgin Blue pilots have shown how much they are willing to work for, in return for living in Oz - many having sacrificed salaries of 2 or 3 times that which they now receive. Additionally they are FAR more productive than their AN/QANdom domestic counterparts, who receive overtime for working more than a ridiculously low 55 hours per month.
Why the party was allowed to continue at Ansett (and QANdom) for soooo long, is still beyond the comprehension of me - and now Ansett is paying the ultimate price!
Virgin Blue pilots have shown how much they are willing to work for, in return for living in Oz - many having sacrificed salaries of 2 or 3 times that which they now receive. Additionally they are FAR more productive than their AN/QANdom domestic counterparts, who receive overtime for working more than a ridiculously low 55 hours per month.
Why the party was allowed to continue at Ansett (and QANdom) for soooo long, is still beyond the comprehension of me - and now Ansett is paying the ultimate price!
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Nice one coming from someone who out of greed tried to bite the hand that fed them. If you'd followed your own advice you wouldn't be spending so much time on the net dreaming of home. Get that chip off your shoulder mate!
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Kaptin M it is my belief that what QF pilots earn is not over the top compared with most other reputable airlines around the world.
What Virgin Blue gets paid is "third world" and I feel they have prostituted themselves, however I suppose the call to return home was greater than the money they earnt overseas.
By the way, I did not have anything to do with 89.
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Offchocks ]
What Virgin Blue gets paid is "third world" and I feel they have prostituted themselves, however I suppose the call to return home was greater than the money they earnt overseas.
By the way, I did not have anything to do with 89.
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Offchocks ]
Kap M,
Suggest you do your research first before you stick your foot in your mouth yet again, one day you will choke.
Yep old what's his name must be full of pride to come back in full support of wages, the equivalent of which are LESS than those BEFORE he and his merry band led the troops out the door!
What the heck, like collecting a nice super payout from many years of service to cover you through the battle you knew you had to retreat from very early on (should have heeded Madderns advice - doh, stupid brain!) whilst the juniors suffered, ****** it - look after yourself, stuff anyone else, as long as YOU get to return to Aus, drag wages down - good doggy!
Now, what is ridiculous?
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: The The ]
Suggest you do your research first before you stick your foot in your mouth yet again, one day you will choke.
Yep old what's his name must be full of pride to come back in full support of wages, the equivalent of which are LESS than those BEFORE he and his merry band led the troops out the door!
What the heck, like collecting a nice super payout from many years of service to cover you through the battle you knew you had to retreat from very early on (should have heeded Madderns advice - doh, stupid brain!) whilst the juniors suffered, ****** it - look after yourself, stuff anyone else, as long as YOU get to return to Aus, drag wages down - good doggy!
Now, what is ridiculous?
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: The The ]
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I agree KapM.
I reckon it is fantastic that those selfless guys came back to Oz and are willing to work for a third of the wages they were earning overseas.
OR...
Can you believe that they earned the big bucks overseas for 10 years on low levels of income tax, built up their nest egg and have now come back to screw up wages and careers for the rest of the Australian pilots.
When are you going to suggest that the regional pilots should take a pay cut on turboprops? $110k for a 160+ pax 737 is fair? Is $80+ OK for a 34 pax Saab? Maybe we had better lower those as well. You are advocating screwing the future careers of everyone.
I reckon it is fantastic that those selfless guys came back to Oz and are willing to work for a third of the wages they were earning overseas.
OR...
Can you believe that they earned the big bucks overseas for 10 years on low levels of income tax, built up their nest egg and have now come back to screw up wages and careers for the rest of the Australian pilots.
When are you going to suggest that the regional pilots should take a pay cut on turboprops? $110k for a 160+ pax 737 is fair? Is $80+ OK for a 34 pax Saab? Maybe we had better lower those as well. You are advocating screwing the future careers of everyone.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Boeing Belly, the only "dreaming" I do about Oz is keeping check of the 3 houses I`ve bought there, SINCE leaving, thanks to incomes in OTHER than AUD`s....and the 4 weeks (paid) leave I`ll be enjoying starting in about 2 weeks - the third lot of leave this year.
Anyway, this topic, and the question, would NEVER have had to be asked, had the greedy mercenaries from overseas (and Hawk) not become involved in OUR industrial relations with our companies! As was usual, there would have been an agreed settlement, and as can be seen from the CURRENT agreement between Virgin Blue, its pilots anf the Federation, an AFFORDABLE agreement.
Offchocks, the QF international pilots ARE underpaid in relation to other Western airline company`s pilots, and the value of the AUD vs USD, however the QFdom "senior" pilots are grossly overpaid and underworked!
Ahhh, holidays - aren`t they great!
Anyway, this topic, and the question, would NEVER have had to be asked, had the greedy mercenaries from overseas (and Hawk) not become involved in OUR industrial relations with our companies! As was usual, there would have been an agreed settlement, and as can be seen from the CURRENT agreement between Virgin Blue, its pilots anf the Federation, an AFFORDABLE agreement.
Offchocks, the QF international pilots ARE underpaid in relation to other Western airline company`s pilots, and the value of the AUD vs USD, however the QFdom "senior" pilots are grossly overpaid and underworked!
Ahhh, holidays - aren`t they great!
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Nobody has yet answered the question at all, would current Ansett employees, particularly pilots, be prepared to accept a reduction in salary in order for Ansett to survive?
Or would you rather just see Ansett go out of business and have no salary?
There is a lot of feeling in the community with regards to a Government bail out of Ansett, I think a lot of it stems from the fact that why should the Australian taxpayers, many of whom probably work very hard all their lives paying taxes on say $25K to $30K, have their taxes going to save a foreign owned company like Ansett is now, when Ansett employees on massive salaries (compared to average taxpayers) will not help themselves or Ansett by offering to take a lower salary.
Or would you rather just see Ansett go out of business and have no salary?
There is a lot of feeling in the community with regards to a Government bail out of Ansett, I think a lot of it stems from the fact that why should the Australian taxpayers, many of whom probably work very hard all their lives paying taxes on say $25K to $30K, have their taxes going to save a foreign owned company like Ansett is now, when Ansett employees on massive salaries (compared to average taxpayers) will not help themselves or Ansett by offering to take a lower salary.
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That's a good point Lame. The shareholders have been pocketing cash/profit over the last however many years while the fleet aged. Now that things are going bad, the SHAREHOLDERS can deal with the consequences. It don't think it's fair that shareholders pocket the profit, and the rest of Australia pay to fix up their company when it makes a loss.
The fact is that the board of directors failed to plan ahead for any problems;
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Pass-A-Frozo ]
The fact is that the board of directors failed to plan ahead for any problems;
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Pass-A-Frozo ]
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I'm not going to comment on pilots remuneration, however I can say that the IT dept. at AN pay something in the order of 20% less than the IT industry standard. One of the main reasons the employees stay is the "other" benefits, such as ID90 travel.
As a pilot you may not realise how important the IT operations are to any aviation business these days, but let me tell you, if there is no IT, there is no company. Just the same as can be said for tech crew, cabin crew, maintenance, accounts, reservations, and many other business functions.
To put it in another light, I wouldn't like to suggest that the IT staff are offered the choice of a pay cut, or leave, because they'd leave.
As a pilot you may not realise how important the IT operations are to any aviation business these days, but let me tell you, if there is no IT, there is no company. Just the same as can be said for tech crew, cabin crew, maintenance, accounts, reservations, and many other business functions.
To put it in another light, I wouldn't like to suggest that the IT staff are offered the choice of a pay cut, or leave, because they'd leave.
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Feeton,
Neither am I commenting on the amount of salary paid to Ansett pilots, or anyone else at Ansett..........
I was simply asking whether or not Ansett employees would accept a lower salary than they currently receive IF it meant the survival of Ansett?
Judging by the response, looks like NO.......
Also judging by the two most recent posts from Wirraway on the other thread, it is too late.......
Best regards,
"lame"
PS Stop trying to catch up to me Feeton, your task is impossible.
Neither am I commenting on the amount of salary paid to Ansett pilots, or anyone else at Ansett..........
I was simply asking whether or not Ansett employees would accept a lower salary than they currently receive IF it meant the survival of Ansett?
Judging by the response, looks like NO.......
Also judging by the two most recent posts from Wirraway on the other thread, it is too late.......
Best regards,
"lame"
PS Stop trying to catch up to me Feeton, your task is impossible.
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Yeah yeah,
Same old bull**** reasoning of saving money by screwing pilots. Never consider any other person's wages, just those damn happy larrikins that read the paper and spill coffee.
Same old bull**** reasoning of saving money by screwing pilots. Never consider any other person's wages, just those damn happy larrikins that read the paper and spill coffee.
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I have never had a problem with the pay scale in AN.
I have had problem with the means by which it came about.
That was one had to be a scab, and in that process, remove a former colleague's salary to get it. The scab then set about ensuring his former colleague could not work in Australia, by acquiescing to the employer whim.
I think they should down tools.
I have had problem with the means by which it came about.
That was one had to be a scab, and in that process, remove a former colleague's salary to get it. The scab then set about ensuring his former colleague could not work in Australia, by acquiescing to the employer whim.
I think they should down tools.
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I just love the way people read threads how they want to, rather than what it SAYS......
I especially worded my question for ALL Ansett employees......... I did say in particular pilots as you would think it would be primarily, but not only, pilots that would read this thread?
But it was addressed to ALL current Ansett employees..........
Looks like the answer is "no" anyway to taking a salary cut, which is one of the reasons you cannot blame poor old Joe Public for not wanting to help, the other of course being it is now a 100% foreign owned company.
I especially worded my question for ALL Ansett employees......... I did say in particular pilots as you would think it would be primarily, but not only, pilots that would read this thread?
But it was addressed to ALL current Ansett employees..........
Looks like the answer is "no" anyway to taking a salary cut, which is one of the reasons you cannot blame poor old Joe Public for not wanting to help, the other of course being it is now a 100% foreign owned company.
I for one, cannot see any pilot group taking a paycut in this situation, unless everybody (including the GM) takes a big cut as well. What about the shareholders giving back some of their profits from the last few years?? Unless of course it was some part of a restructuring plan, where the staff buy the shell of the company back.
Rumour has it from the cleaners on Swanston street, that the newspaper boy took 800 mill with him, just to prop his other failing ventures when he left. I guess when you own half the company, you can take what you like!! and ****** what a mess he left. An Chansett accountant is rumoured to have stated at a party on the weekend "Don't plan your Christmas travel with XX" Sad to hear!
Rumour has it from the cleaners on Swanston street, that the newspaper boy took 800 mill with him, just to prop his other failing ventures when he left. I guess when you own half the company, you can take what you like!! and ****** what a mess he left. An Chansett accountant is rumoured to have stated at a party on the weekend "Don't plan your Christmas travel with XX" Sad to hear!
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Off chocks, I do agree. As opposed to united that pay US$300k or so. I think unfortunately we are "slightly" ripped off on a global scale. However if the current aviation screwers would see that.When you are looking at cost cutting there are other area's apart from the guys up the front, simply put with out them the company make's no money. What about the other 5.7 billion free-loaders sitting behind desk's with their new mouse pad surfing the net on the companies time.... oh how badly am I banging my head against a brick wall. What never ceases to amaze me about this type of rationalisation is it always starts with the pilots. A bus driver at Ansett earn's $60k first year, a night freight loader earn's with overtime 120k... need I say more???
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Things are looking worse than ever before.
As reported by the IRN:
Liquidation May Not Be Far Off: ACT
ACT believes Air New Zealand may be forced to put its subsidiary Ansett Australia into liquidation.
Party leader Richard Prebble says the Government has been looking into the Air New Zealand situation for the last three months, but has achieved nothing.
With Ansett losing about $500 million a year, Mr Prebble says the Government should have given Singapore Airlines the go ahead to buy into Air New Zealand at $1.31 a share, long ago.
He says the shares are now worth a lot less.
Richard Prebble believes Ansett could be in the hands of liquidators as early as tomorrow.
As reported by the IRN:
Liquidation May Not Be Far Off: ACT
ACT believes Air New Zealand may be forced to put its subsidiary Ansett Australia into liquidation.
Party leader Richard Prebble says the Government has been looking into the Air New Zealand situation for the last three months, but has achieved nothing.
With Ansett losing about $500 million a year, Mr Prebble says the Government should have given Singapore Airlines the go ahead to buy into Air New Zealand at $1.31 a share, long ago.
He says the shares are now worth a lot less.
Richard Prebble believes Ansett could be in the hands of liquidators as early as tomorrow.
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Hello all
I just read a post from a braggart with the following inclusion.
Quote:
Boeing Belly, the only "dreaming" I do about Oz is keeping check of the 3 houses I`ve bought there, SINCE leaving, thanks to incomes in OTHER than AUD`s....and the 4 weeks (paid) leave I`ll be enjoying starting in about 2 weeks - the third lot of leave this year. Unqoute.
How unfortunate for this little man that he feels the need to brag in the face of such unbridled emotional hardship being experienced this weekend by all of Ansett's employees.
House payments, kids education, food for the week...
Perhaps the braggart would consider his own position if in a similar trial.
That said, I suppose his brisk response will be something to do with past trials and tribulations, how he overcame them in the face of adversity, and how he now feels the need to throw it in the face of others lees fortunate.
Bravo Kaptin M.
I say bravo to you.
And to my fellow Australians in Ansett, good luck.
There are many who are with you, in spirit.
I just read a post from a braggart with the following inclusion.
Quote:
Boeing Belly, the only "dreaming" I do about Oz is keeping check of the 3 houses I`ve bought there, SINCE leaving, thanks to incomes in OTHER than AUD`s....and the 4 weeks (paid) leave I`ll be enjoying starting in about 2 weeks - the third lot of leave this year. Unqoute.
How unfortunate for this little man that he feels the need to brag in the face of such unbridled emotional hardship being experienced this weekend by all of Ansett's employees.
House payments, kids education, food for the week...
Perhaps the braggart would consider his own position if in a similar trial.
That said, I suppose his brisk response will be something to do with past trials and tribulations, how he overcame them in the face of adversity, and how he now feels the need to throw it in the face of others lees fortunate.
Bravo Kaptin M.
I say bravo to you.
And to my fellow Australians in Ansett, good luck.
There are many who are with you, in spirit.