Aust ATPL to JAR ATPL info
PPRuNe Handmaiden
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Aust ATPL to JAR ATPL info
Frequently asked questions re Aust ATPL to JAR ATPL
I have just recently completed the 14 exams required for the JAR ATPL and I thought I would post this to help others.
I am thinking about going to the UK. What Should I do?
Have you been there before? If not, go there for a holiday. See if you like the place before selling every thing in Oz. Find out when a big Bash is on and time your visit to coincide. You’ll meet some useful people there. However, please don’t shove a resume at them unless asked for.
How do you emigrate there?
No idea, I am fortunate to hold a British passport. If you father was born in the UK, then you qualify for one. If you mother or grandparents were born there, then you qualify for Right of Abode and the right to work. (Please check your details with the British Consulate here. I am not an expert on this.)
I have heard that people with 200 hours get jet jobs.
Yes, they used to. I know a couple of guys that have got jet jobs and the like with 250 hours. However, they were on a very intensive course that costs approx £50,000 and they are trained to fly airliners. Also, that was before Sept 11. There is a recruitment ban on at the moment and only 2 companies I know are recruiting. They are looking for people with at least 1000 hours, preferably on jets. (737’s especially) (BALPA conference Oct 2001)
Someone coming from Oz with 250 hours will be faced with a very long wait to get a job right now, let alone a jet job.
I have an Aust ATPL with 500 hours 2 crew time. What do I have to do?
Firstly, get your employer to write you a letter stating that you have the 2 crew time and the dates that you worked for them, hours gained, etc. If you time was on a Bandeirante or Twin Otter, technically they are single pilot aircraft. However, if you operated them under CAO 82.3 that is acceptable. Again, get a letter stating your hours, when flown, the CAO reference. This is acceptable to the UK CAA.
Do the Class One medical. This will cost £189. (Not £400) This must be done at Gatwick
Do a groundschool for the JAR ATPL. Time is 650 hours. If you hold an ICAO ATPL (ie Aust) then you can get the hours reduced. However, unless you are a genius I wouldn’t advise it. Besides, it is up to the theory provider to reduce the hours. Cost ~ £3600 Note, time can be as FO or Captain.
Here’s the fun part. Reference Doc Policy update 1/4/2001 pg 16.
The applicant is exempt any formal training (ground or flight), provided that he holds a current type rating for the type on which he will complete the Skill Test and has logged 500 hours on that type. If he does not, he must complete the appropriate TRTO (type rating training organisation-UK) course to obtain that rating. Note, you must pass the 14 exams. This check ride must be observed by a CAA examiner.
If the holder of an ICAO ATPL is not in current flying practice on a multi pilot aircraft, he may be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL provided that the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.280/2.280 have been met. The licence will be issued on the basis of:
1. Holding a valid Class One medical
2. Completed the theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the provider and have passed all 14 exams.
3. Undertaking a multi pilot type rating course at an approved TRTO.
4. Passing the type rating/ATPL skills test (including Initial IR ) This checkride must be observed by a CAA examiner.
I have over 1500 command hours on +30 tonne aircraft
I haven’t had this confirmed. If the operation was international ops, then you need to do Air Law and Human Performance and Limitations only to convert your licence. From what I can gather, the CAA haven’t really made up their mind over this.
I don’t have the 500 hours 2 crew?
Now it gets very expensive. You can only qualify for a JAR CPL. You must do the full Instrument Rating again (-5 hours I think). This course is ~55 hours long and must be done in the UK.
Also, many companies require what is known as the MCC. Multi Crew Certificate or something like that. The IR will set you back ~£13,000-£15,000. The MCC £2 - 4,000.
I don’t have any turbine or RPT experience.
Sadly, you will have to wait a long time before you’ll get a job in the UK now. There are many instructors over here already. Turbine time is what the employers look for if they are going to hire a “foreigner”. Also, they want airline experience as well. They are looking for someone that they can upgrade fairly quickly to command. Fortunately, many operators like Australian and New Zealand pilots. Also, if you don’t have any turbine experience then the cost of conversion will be astronomical.
Is the JAR ATPL theory hard?
Well, remember the workload for the Australian one? Keep that up for 6 months solid. Plan at least 2-4 hours a night and at least 5-8 hours on the weekend on top of the class time to get through it all. Flight planning and the practical Nav is much harder in Oz. However, the JAR ATPL requires you to remember a lot more “stuff”. Not particularly useful stuff but it needs to be remembered for some reason. The biggest difference is probably that JAR looks at the world where as Oz tended to worry about Oz stuff, eg Met, Airlaw etc. Also, CASA publishes a syllabus and a reference guide. JAR/CAA doesn’t.
There is no negative marking.
You get 4 attempts per subject
You get 6 sittings.
You have 18 months to pass all the exams after your first sitting.
Cost £718. (for the CAA)
How much will it cost?
I’ll leave the figures in £.
Medical £189
Ground school £3600
Exams £718
Living expenses. Budget £100/week for 6 months. It's a bonus if you have a generous relative. (I didn't)
Cheapest type rating (Shed 330) £8,000
Instrument Rating £13,000 - £15,000
MCC £2-4,000
The future?
Good question. A few operators are quietly tipping that come the Northern Spring hiring will take place. However, quite a few pilots from Virgin Atlantic and possibly BA will be on the market as well. Although, the very quiet word on the street is that the boom will be bigger than the last one. When that will occur is any ones guess. (I have my fingers crossed for that one)
I have found that the CAA are very helpful so long as you have done your homework. If you need any more info either ring them or send them an email. Their website is www.srg.caa.co.uk
[ 26 October 2001: Message edited by: redsnail
I have just recently completed the 14 exams required for the JAR ATPL and I thought I would post this to help others.
I am thinking about going to the UK. What Should I do?
Have you been there before? If not, go there for a holiday. See if you like the place before selling every thing in Oz. Find out when a big Bash is on and time your visit to coincide. You’ll meet some useful people there. However, please don’t shove a resume at them unless asked for.
How do you emigrate there?
No idea, I am fortunate to hold a British passport. If you father was born in the UK, then you qualify for one. If you mother or grandparents were born there, then you qualify for Right of Abode and the right to work. (Please check your details with the British Consulate here. I am not an expert on this.)
I have heard that people with 200 hours get jet jobs.
Yes, they used to. I know a couple of guys that have got jet jobs and the like with 250 hours. However, they were on a very intensive course that costs approx £50,000 and they are trained to fly airliners. Also, that was before Sept 11. There is a recruitment ban on at the moment and only 2 companies I know are recruiting. They are looking for people with at least 1000 hours, preferably on jets. (737’s especially) (BALPA conference Oct 2001)
Someone coming from Oz with 250 hours will be faced with a very long wait to get a job right now, let alone a jet job.
I have an Aust ATPL with 500 hours 2 crew time. What do I have to do?
Firstly, get your employer to write you a letter stating that you have the 2 crew time and the dates that you worked for them, hours gained, etc. If you time was on a Bandeirante or Twin Otter, technically they are single pilot aircraft. However, if you operated them under CAO 82.3 that is acceptable. Again, get a letter stating your hours, when flown, the CAO reference. This is acceptable to the UK CAA.
Do the Class One medical. This will cost £189. (Not £400) This must be done at Gatwick
Do a groundschool for the JAR ATPL. Time is 650 hours. If you hold an ICAO ATPL (ie Aust) then you can get the hours reduced. However, unless you are a genius I wouldn’t advise it. Besides, it is up to the theory provider to reduce the hours. Cost ~ £3600 Note, time can be as FO or Captain.
Here’s the fun part. Reference Doc Policy update 1/4/2001 pg 16.
The applicant is exempt any formal training (ground or flight), provided that he holds a current type rating for the type on which he will complete the Skill Test and has logged 500 hours on that type. If he does not, he must complete the appropriate TRTO (type rating training organisation-UK) course to obtain that rating. Note, you must pass the 14 exams. This check ride must be observed by a CAA examiner.
If the holder of an ICAO ATPL is not in current flying practice on a multi pilot aircraft, he may be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL provided that the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.280/2.280 have been met. The licence will be issued on the basis of:
1. Holding a valid Class One medical
2. Completed the theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the provider and have passed all 14 exams.
3. Undertaking a multi pilot type rating course at an approved TRTO.
4. Passing the type rating/ATPL skills test (including Initial IR ) This checkride must be observed by a CAA examiner.
I have over 1500 command hours on +30 tonne aircraft
I haven’t had this confirmed. If the operation was international ops, then you need to do Air Law and Human Performance and Limitations only to convert your licence. From what I can gather, the CAA haven’t really made up their mind over this.
I don’t have the 500 hours 2 crew?
Now it gets very expensive. You can only qualify for a JAR CPL. You must do the full Instrument Rating again (-5 hours I think). This course is ~55 hours long and must be done in the UK.
Also, many companies require what is known as the MCC. Multi Crew Certificate or something like that. The IR will set you back ~£13,000-£15,000. The MCC £2 - 4,000.
I don’t have any turbine or RPT experience.
Sadly, you will have to wait a long time before you’ll get a job in the UK now. There are many instructors over here already. Turbine time is what the employers look for if they are going to hire a “foreigner”. Also, they want airline experience as well. They are looking for someone that they can upgrade fairly quickly to command. Fortunately, many operators like Australian and New Zealand pilots. Also, if you don’t have any turbine experience then the cost of conversion will be astronomical.
Is the JAR ATPL theory hard?
Well, remember the workload for the Australian one? Keep that up for 6 months solid. Plan at least 2-4 hours a night and at least 5-8 hours on the weekend on top of the class time to get through it all. Flight planning and the practical Nav is much harder in Oz. However, the JAR ATPL requires you to remember a lot more “stuff”. Not particularly useful stuff but it needs to be remembered for some reason. The biggest difference is probably that JAR looks at the world where as Oz tended to worry about Oz stuff, eg Met, Airlaw etc. Also, CASA publishes a syllabus and a reference guide. JAR/CAA doesn’t.
There is no negative marking.
You get 4 attempts per subject
You get 6 sittings.
You have 18 months to pass all the exams after your first sitting.
Cost £718. (for the CAA)
How much will it cost?
I’ll leave the figures in £.
Medical £189
Ground school £3600
Exams £718
Living expenses. Budget £100/week for 6 months. It's a bonus if you have a generous relative. (I didn't)
Cheapest type rating (Shed 330) £8,000
Instrument Rating £13,000 - £15,000
MCC £2-4,000
The future?
Good question. A few operators are quietly tipping that come the Northern Spring hiring will take place. However, quite a few pilots from Virgin Atlantic and possibly BA will be on the market as well. Although, the very quiet word on the street is that the boom will be bigger than the last one. When that will occur is any ones guess. (I have my fingers crossed for that one)
I have found that the CAA are very helpful so long as you have done your homework. If you need any more info either ring them or send them an email. Their website is www.srg.caa.co.uk
[ 26 October 2001: Message edited by: redsnail
Last edited by redsnail; 23rd May 2002 at 10:47.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Thread Starter
Ahhhh Jarse mate, making me jealous!
Scotland, cold and sunny one day, blowing a proverbial gale with pouring rain the next.... Ahhh Autumn.....
I'll be home in Dec to thaw out and to do my Aust IR renewal.
Yep, it took me a week to sober up after passing those ^%$£^%$"%$£&$ exams. However, the beauty about being in Scotland is that the pubs are open late and they love a drink. I fit in perfectly here
Scotland, cold and sunny one day, blowing a proverbial gale with pouring rain the next.... Ahhh Autumn.....
I'll be home in Dec to thaw out and to do my Aust IR renewal.
Yep, it took me a week to sober up after passing those ^%$£^%$"%$£&$ exams. However, the beauty about being in Scotland is that the pubs are open late and they love a drink. I fit in perfectly here
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Redsnail
Congratulations from us dunnundans dahn ere.
Perseverance, and a bit of money and brains always wins through.
The brewing companies down here are all reporting massive losses and hangng out for you return. 
Congratulations from us dunnundans dahn ere.
Perseverance, and a bit of money and brains
always wins through.The brewing companies down here are all reporting massive losses and hangng out for you return.
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Well done. Every time there is a red machine beside me at a traffic light I've wondered how you were getting on.
But you must be a kept woman......."Living expenses. Budget £100 for 6 months." Or did you mean per week?
But you must be a kept woman......."Living expenses. Budget £100 for 6 months." Or did you mean per week?
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Or was it the other way ... 100 quid per night? 
Congrats on getting thru all14 of those exams Reddo! That is no minor achievement. Good gen in yer post too ... should help to answer lots of the sorta questions that arise in this forum every so often. I may just archive this one!
Anyway, very well done! If yer gunna be anywhere around Cairns in December...
Congrats on getting thru all14 of those exams Reddo! That is no minor achievement. Good gen in yer post too ... should help to answer lots of the sorta questions that arise in this forum every so often. I may just archive this one! Anyway, very well done! If yer gunna be anywhere around Cairns in December...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Thread Starter
Ta every one. Yep, it is per week!! oops
Thanks to every one who sent emails etc during those 6 months. It was hard yakka being away from home, especially when Dad passed away. So, when I return in Dec I'll spend a bit of time at home to make up for that.
It has been fun packing away the books. If the general consensus agrees, I can make a post about the JAR ATPL subjects.
Thanks to every one who sent emails etc during those 6 months. It was hard yakka being away from home, especially when Dad passed away. So, when I return in Dec I'll spend a bit of time at home to make up for that.
It has been fun packing away the books. If the general consensus agrees, I can make a post about the JAR ATPL subjects.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Thread Starter
When are the hiring times?
The airlines tend to hire all year round. That is, when there isn't a recruitment ban on! Go and easyJet are recruiting and I believe Ryanair are as well. 737 time is very useful with these operators. For the IT market, they tend to interview Aug/Sept for the winter season. For the summer (obviously the busier of the 2) recruiting takes place early Spring. IT airlines like A320, 757, 767 time. However, any turbine time is a huge advantage over here.
One thing that is vital and that is to network effectively. Quite a few companies hire on personal recommendations from current employees. Fortunately, Australians and New Zealanders are looked upon favourably by most companies. I use PPRuNe and the Bashes to make my contacts
The airlines tend to hire all year round. That is, when there isn't a recruitment ban on! Go and easyJet are recruiting and I believe Ryanair are as well. 737 time is very useful with these operators. For the IT market, they tend to interview Aug/Sept for the winter season. For the summer (obviously the busier of the 2) recruiting takes place early Spring. IT airlines like A320, 757, 767 time. However, any turbine time is a huge advantage over here.
One thing that is vital and that is to network effectively. Quite a few companies hire on personal recommendations from current employees. Fortunately, Australians and New Zealanders are looked upon favourably by most companies. I use PPRuNe and the Bashes to make my contacts
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Thread Starter
Bringing this back to the top as requested.
The only area in this post that I am a bit grey on is the for the people with a lot of time in command on 30+ tonne aircraft. If you have doubts or want verification of what I have posted, please contact the UK CAA. They also answer emails.
Another top tip, if the search is disabled and you know you have seen the topic recently. Just change how many days are on view and it should appear. Useful if it was last week or last month. Not too many pages to wade through then.
[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: redsnail ]
The only area in this post that I am a bit grey on is the for the people with a lot of time in command on 30+ tonne aircraft. If you have doubts or want verification of what I have posted, please contact the UK CAA. They also answer emails.
Another top tip, if the search is disabled and you know you have seen the topic recently. Just change how many days are on view and it should appear. Useful if it was last week or last month. Not too many pages to wade through then.
[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: redsnail ]
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Good onya reddo. Congrats on getting through all of that hard yakka with your sanity still intact and also "thank you" for sparing the time to put all that info together so that everyone back here has an idea of what you are going through/up against.
Cheers mate.
Cheers mate.
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G'day Reddo, congrats. on passing the exams! I walked the same road 28 years ago, it proved to be a great start to my carreer and I'm sure it will be the same for you too!
I also went to Scotland (AST at Scone) to do the licence, boy was it ever cold!
I also went to Scotland (AST at Scone) to do the licence, boy was it ever cold!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Thread Starter
I found this on the wannabee forum. It seems that there may be talk of reducing the hours required for the IR if you already have one.
policy update
I hope this helps. I don't know when it will be implemented.
policy update
I hope this helps. I don't know when it will be implemented.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Thread Starter
Bringing this back to the top.. .Some updates.. .Still waiting to get the Shed rating done.. Patience is a virtue.. .Keep an eye out for PPRuNe Fund scholarships. Ozmates are welcome to apply too.. .. .Go are advertising for Non Jar lic holders. However, must have right of abode etc. I get the impression that they are looking for high jet time guys they can upgrade to command.. .. .Still many high houred guys out of work here. Low cost airlines are recruiting as many as they can hoover up at this stage. Passenger numbers are up but yield is another question.
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Cheers redsnail. .. .Further note. The Irish are in the process of becoming JAA accredited. I made a few enquiries and it seems that they will be very competitive on the price front.. .. .Question. Why to operators up there like NZ/AUS pilots?? I thought there would be a lot of anomosity towards us.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
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Only the 200 hour wonderkids hate us. Some operators seem to dislike the Antipodeans. Probably avid cricketers or something.. .Most like Antipodeans because they work hard and get on with most people. Makes for a happy and productive crew.. .Also, they do value the experience.
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Good summary Reds!. .Ignoring the CAA problems Ive spoken to you about in the past, what do you know about converting to JAR in the UK with:. .* Right of abode by ancestry. .* 13,500 hours total. .* Oz and FAA ATP ( for the purpose of the question forget about my old UK one). .* 5000 hours P1 737. .* 3000 hours P2 747. .* 10,000 hours multi-crew jet RPT. .* 13 bed hours with various English ladys (not current. Lapsed). .* employed and current on 737. .* current medical. .* current CIR 737. .. .Thanks Reds. Your a doll. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
PPRuNe Handmaiden
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Slasher, if your time on the 737 etc is primarily international operations (their discretion of course) then I think you would have to do Airlaw and Human Factors + a check ride with a CAA examiner observing.. .Other than that, pester Go or Easyjet and see if you can get a validation.
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Slasher,. .. .I reckon your biggest problem will be those lapsed 13 hrs; you'll have to be prepared to be a little out of currency and the cockpit will probably be a little different from what you've been use to,but I believe a good man like you will be prepared to do the work and bring yourself back up to speed( or back down to speed is probably preferable).. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
