...and then there were two.
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Fox/Lew were never interested in running an airline. All they wanted to do was make a buck from the sale of the terminal leases (AN's main asset). There was always going to be battles over who would get the terminal space. Virgin Blue wants to update their little tin sheds and Qantas desperately needs more space at SYD. The Fox/Lew clowns couldn't make the pen hit the paper when it came to putting their money the table. One of the conditions The Two Ronnies made to the administrators was to not allow any other bidders into the picture. This locked out potential buyers. If they were interested in buying the airline things WOULD have been sorted out a long time ago. With things dragging on as long as they did, Ansetts reputation had been flogged like a dead horse. Well now these two donkeys will have their asses hauled through the courts with "Please Explain".
As for the Australian government. Well done. Another fine mess which you have contributed towards. The word government is synonymous with incompetence, just like Ansett management. Well sucked in now coz you are going to have stacks of people on the dole, and will stay on the dole if they can just to spite you.
As for the Australian government. Well done. Another fine mess which you have contributed towards. The word government is synonymous with incompetence, just like Ansett management. Well sucked in now coz you are going to have stacks of people on the dole, and will stay on the dole if they can just to spite you.
Bottums Up
No2FollowtheCessna are you able to elaborate on the comment, [quote]One of the conditions The Two Ronnies made to the administrators was to not allow any other bidders into the picture. <hr></blockquote>.
Why wouldn't the Administrator have an airtight contract before they tell all other bidders to ****** in the direction of off?
Why wouldn't the Administrator have an airtight contract before they tell all other bidders to ****** in the direction of off?
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So here we are back 12 years ago with the two airline policy alive and well. The only difference is one airline has 80% of the market and the other will eventually get 20%.
Great idea that "deregulation" of the Australian airline industry 12 years ago. Of course, we all know what that really meant to Abeles, Murdoch and Hawke at that time.
Australian Airlines and Ansett "competing" head to head with no nasty AFAP to keep things on an even keel. With the AFAP out of the way, no more wage hikes, no more better condition demands and a very compliant "in house" union just to make it look good to the ACTU and Industrial Relations Commission. BIG money for the Government and BIG money for the PM's buddies in private enterprise. A war chest so massive that even if any new player managed to start up, he wouldn't be around long enough to be significant. Yep, that was DEREGULATION Bob Hawke/abeles style.
Trouble with that plan was the AFAP DID get in the way and the rest is history!
Imagine if the talks in Lorne had gone ahead without the interference of the Fat Man and backing of the Silver Bodgie. Both airlines would have been very healthy (financialy)today and thousands of happy employees would have been going about their daily business to strive for that elusive floating 1% - 2% of the market share that TN and AN fought over every month.
Ah well, close a door and another opens.
. .R.I.P. Ansett.
Great idea that "deregulation" of the Australian airline industry 12 years ago. Of course, we all know what that really meant to Abeles, Murdoch and Hawke at that time.
Australian Airlines and Ansett "competing" head to head with no nasty AFAP to keep things on an even keel. With the AFAP out of the way, no more wage hikes, no more better condition demands and a very compliant "in house" union just to make it look good to the ACTU and Industrial Relations Commission. BIG money for the Government and BIG money for the PM's buddies in private enterprise. A war chest so massive that even if any new player managed to start up, he wouldn't be around long enough to be significant. Yep, that was DEREGULATION Bob Hawke/abeles style.
Trouble with that plan was the AFAP DID get in the way and the rest is history!
Imagine if the talks in Lorne had gone ahead without the interference of the Fat Man and backing of the Silver Bodgie. Both airlines would have been very healthy (financialy)today and thousands of happy employees would have been going about their daily business to strive for that elusive floating 1% - 2% of the market share that TN and AN fought over every month.
Ah well, close a door and another opens.
. .R.I.P. Ansett.
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Yes indeed Whiskery. Deregulation certainly enabled fatty and I think to a greater extent, the dirty digger, to effectively bleed Ansett to death. It is interesting to note that the rapid expansion of News Corp coincided with purchase of Ansett and subsequent sale and lease back agreements that unlocked cash for the owners but saddled the company with long term leases payable in foreign currencies. Ansett consistently made operating profits but bottom line losses due to foreign currency transactions. It was during the late eighties and early nineties that financial deregulation heralded the steady and significant decline in the Ozzy dollar. I am sure that foreign currency hedges were consistently insufficient to protect the Ansett cash flows. . .Perhaps some good will finally come of this after all in the form of returned ownership of the domestic aviation market to the Australian people. I would like to see a float of Virgin and also an effort by Qantas buy back their BA shareholding to restore some value to Australian investors. It is about time we saw a cessation of good Australian resources plundered by overseas interests with the Australian public left with the mess to clean up.
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As for this rubbish! Please shed some light???
"As for the Australian government. Well done. Another fine mess which you have contributed towards. The word government is synonymous with incompetence, just like Ansett management."
What responsibility has the government in the operation, financial success or demise of a private enterprise???? They have already provided funds at the taxpayers and air travellers expense!
So you imply, if through mismanagement or misfortune, the demise MY company or any other is the result of government contribution (or lack of)& incoppetence!
How the F#@K do you figure that??????
"As for the Australian government. Well done. Another fine mess which you have contributed towards. The word government is synonymous with incompetence, just like Ansett management."
What responsibility has the government in the operation, financial success or demise of a private enterprise???? They have already provided funds at the taxpayers and air travellers expense!
So you imply, if through mismanagement or misfortune, the demise MY company or any other is the result of government contribution (or lack of)& incoppetence!
How the F#@K do you figure that??????
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Spot on "P.P." I would suggest that everybody take a long hard look at the part played by the ACTU (and ex ACTU figures) in this debacle.
Is that an olive branch I see protruding from Mr Kelty's fundamental orifice?
Is that an olive branch I see protruding from Mr Kelty's fundamental orifice?
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"P.P" I think you miss the point "Whiskery" is spot on, if the "Three STOOGES" hadn't meddled in the show in 1989 Ansett would still be flying today with around 50% of the domestic traffic.
RB who is currently soaking up the sun in the Bahamas was quoted on the news yesterday saying that Governments should never bail out failing businesses especially airlines and Aus is the only country whose populous seem to think it is OK to do so.
All the good guys left AN in '89 and left it to you lot to navigate it down the gurgler rudderless. .12 years later, unfortunately taking a lot of loyal misguided ancillary staff with it.
R.I.P. Ansett a once Great Airline pre'89. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
RB who is currently soaking up the sun in the Bahamas was quoted on the news yesterday saying that Governments should never bail out failing businesses especially airlines and Aus is the only country whose populous seem to think it is OK to do so.
All the good guys left AN in '89 and left it to you lot to navigate it down the gurgler rudderless. .12 years later, unfortunately taking a lot of loyal misguided ancillary staff with it.
R.I.P. Ansett a once Great Airline pre'89. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Puts on flame-proof suit, false eyebrows and moustache, and hides in an underground bunker - then suggests....Isn't it about time, especially in the light of all the recent evidence, for people to accept atht with/without ANZ's involvement, AN was a goner - the ANZ involvement just prolonged the death throws - every on e in NZ, from the PM downwards, will happily concede that buying all of AN, with the naive hope it could be made profitable, given it was already in a bad way, WAS DUMB, A RECKLESS WASTE OF ANZ SHAREHOLDERS FUNDS, etc etc - BUT - that is why ANZ got into financial trouble, NOT why AN failed - AN failed because, despite what it may/may not have in in the past, in the years immediately preceding its collapse it was performing very badly financial - a culture if waste, overmanning, and feather bedding had crept in: I am not making any judgement on the hard work/attitudes of individual employees, or the quality of cabin service, etc, but on the whole company ethos, which was top management driven, middle management perpetuated. The fact that in a slimmed down, new look, new money format it could still not be made to work speaks volumes - I see reference to suggestions the Aussie Govt would have had to pay subsidies of a billion per year - if it was politically acceptable, no doubt it might have done so - ANZ already lost 1.25 B in AN - no matter what money was thrown at it, it wasn't going to work - and not seeing that/not acceoting that before buying was the BIG mistake of the ANZ board - but a mistake of a private/commercial enterprise - the freedom to fail is a "privilege" of the free market. Other correspondents have commented on other company collapses in Australia - it's just a business - all the little Aussie Icon rhetoric aside - and for a variety of financial reasons, INCLUDING errors by the ANZ board, it failed - and nearly took ANZ with it - BUT - there was no transferring of assetts to ANZ etc as has been alleged - and this has been publically stated by the administrators - it failed because "culturally", in the business practice, employment practice, self perception points of view, AN management and staff had not caught up with the times - PLUS a dose of bad luck with the B767 "groundings" etc - and maybe some in Aussie who fomented that whole exercise as a xenophobic reaction to off-shore (NZ is hardly "foreign) ownership need to be examining their consciences about now too. My heart goes out to the AN staff who stayed loyal and stuck it out abd did their best - but bigger, global, forces were at work, and internal Aussie political forces as well.. .(heads for underground shelter)
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Very convenient to overlook the fact that AirNZ was a basket case too. Very fine sentiments indeed when you see the NZ Government? bailing out AirNZ.. .But will AirNZ survive? They don't deserve to.
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nzer I appreciate that you're entitled to your opinion but let's clarify some facts first.
First of all, let's discuss the definition of the word foreign. The Macquarie dictionary defines it as :. .foreign adj. 1.relating to, characteristic of, or derived from another country or nation; not native or domestic 2. not related to or connected with the thing under consideration
I think it's quite obvious that Australia and New Zealand are indeed foreign to each other. They may have reciprocal trade agreements and immigration policies but the fact remains that they are still different countries, no matter what either government tries to tell you!
When Air NZ purchased Ansett it was a profitable airline. Indeed it was made to appear profitable by RE who kindly sold off non-core assets in order to boost the kitty to prepare the airline for sale. At the time Air NZ was a shareholder and had first rights to purchase remaining shares. Air NZ decided to exercise it's purchasing option (in order to keep Singapore Airlines out - but that's a whole new topic) and purchase the remaining shares. In it's haste to purchase Ansett, Air NZ did not conduct proper due diligence on Ansett thus missed out on seeing the rot that had inevitably set in. Air NZ was barely financial enough to handle it's own affairs let alone those of a fledging bigger-brother.
I'm not sure if you flew Ansett whilst it was under Air NZ's wing (sorry bad pun there) however I had to fly them every day and I must say I was ashamed of the product and what Ansett had become. We had a second-rate service and a second-rate product. I was truly embarrassed.
Air NZ had to off-load Ansett in order to save itself. It had bled Ansett dry and there was nothing more worth taking, Air NZ did not have the funding to absorb the AN losses and had to eventually turn to it's own government to save it. Ansett does not have that luxury.
The saddest part of all this is the employees. I hold no resentment towards Air NZ employees - but I do resent the fact that Air NZ management bit off more than they could chew then tried to blame it on everyone else.
SG
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
First of all, let's discuss the definition of the word foreign. The Macquarie dictionary defines it as :. .foreign adj. 1.relating to, characteristic of, or derived from another country or nation; not native or domestic 2. not related to or connected with the thing under consideration
I think it's quite obvious that Australia and New Zealand are indeed foreign to each other. They may have reciprocal trade agreements and immigration policies but the fact remains that they are still different countries, no matter what either government tries to tell you!
When Air NZ purchased Ansett it was a profitable airline. Indeed it was made to appear profitable by RE who kindly sold off non-core assets in order to boost the kitty to prepare the airline for sale. At the time Air NZ was a shareholder and had first rights to purchase remaining shares. Air NZ decided to exercise it's purchasing option (in order to keep Singapore Airlines out - but that's a whole new topic) and purchase the remaining shares. In it's haste to purchase Ansett, Air NZ did not conduct proper due diligence on Ansett thus missed out on seeing the rot that had inevitably set in. Air NZ was barely financial enough to handle it's own affairs let alone those of a fledging bigger-brother.
I'm not sure if you flew Ansett whilst it was under Air NZ's wing (sorry bad pun there) however I had to fly them every day and I must say I was ashamed of the product and what Ansett had become. We had a second-rate service and a second-rate product. I was truly embarrassed.
Air NZ had to off-load Ansett in order to save itself. It had bled Ansett dry and there was nothing more worth taking, Air NZ did not have the funding to absorb the AN losses and had to eventually turn to it's own government to save it. Ansett does not have that luxury.
The saddest part of all this is the employees. I hold no resentment towards Air NZ employees - but I do resent the fact that Air NZ management bit off more than they could chew then tried to blame it on everyone else.
SG
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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SYDGIRL - I find no point you make with which I disagree - we may put different interpretations put on some events/matters of fact, but that is to be expected and the essence of civilised debate. Re my remarks about NZ not really being "foreign", I agree with you completely in the dictionary, legal sense, with all that implies for a situation such as occurred - I was referring to the over-arching sense of being near neighbours with basically common origins, political and judicial and legal systems, some similarities of language - although I have heard that disputed!! etc. My fundamental point of difference of interpretation, as referred to above, is about which organisation bled which dry - and that is going to a matter of (hopefully, progressively, with time) INFORMED opinion. Cheers.
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Syd Girl
You have just explained why AN is not operating now.. .AN was made to look profitable so it could be sold and that it was a second rate product.
That's it, everything that happened afterwards was destined to happen because of the reasons you stated. Air New Zealand & Fox and Lew were just another chapter in a doomed book. Neither of them are to blame. All blame should be placed on the owners before ANZ and dare I say it the staff. Yes, the staff you know the one's. The one's who used to come to work to do overtime and have a sleep. They are the one's every body should be kicking. This airline died 5 years ago. R.I.P.
You have just explained why AN is not operating now.. .AN was made to look profitable so it could be sold and that it was a second rate product.
That's it, everything that happened afterwards was destined to happen because of the reasons you stated. Air New Zealand & Fox and Lew were just another chapter in a doomed book. Neither of them are to blame. All blame should be placed on the owners before ANZ and dare I say it the staff. Yes, the staff you know the one's. The one's who used to come to work to do overtime and have a sleep. They are the one's every body should be kicking. This airline died 5 years ago. R.I.P.
