...and then there were two.
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...and then there were two.
If someone had suggested 12 months ago that Qantas and Virgin would be the only domestic operators in Oz in 12 months time,I would not have believed it!
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It's not over yet!!
Do you honestly think that AN will go under and 15000 job's lost in an election year?
HIH, One Tell and AN don't think so.All we can do is wait and hope for the good of aviation that this mess is sorted out soon so we can all get on with our lives and not have to leave this great country of ours to keep our career.
Do you honestly think that AN will go under and 15000 job's lost in an election year?
HIH, One Tell and AN don't think so.All we can do is wait and hope for the good of aviation that this mess is sorted out soon so we can all get on with our lives and not have to leave this great country of ours to keep our career.
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Kim Beazely stated today that taxpayers money should be used if Ansett became in need of financial trouble.
Would that be good or bad for his election chances?? People dont want to see Ansett go under, but they would rather see their money go to something else like education. It seems a very sharp double edged sword that could chop something other than intended
Comments??
Would that be good or bad for his election chances?? People dont want to see Ansett go under, but they would rather see their money go to something else like education. It seems a very sharp double edged sword that could chop something other than intended
Comments??
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The election me thinks will be sooner rather than later. And this and a few other things will be allowed to drag on just long enough.
As I mentioned in another thread, I believe the hole that Ansett is now in is too deep to climb out of and that any rescue attempt will only delay the inevitable. Any real rescue will result in a very slimmed down operation which will also result in massive job losses, I suspect as many as 5000 plus and the selling of most if not all of the subsidiaries and regionals.
Have a nice day
As I mentioned in another thread, I believe the hole that Ansett is now in is too deep to climb out of and that any rescue attempt will only delay the inevitable. Any real rescue will result in a very slimmed down operation which will also result in massive job losses, I suspect as many as 5000 plus and the selling of most if not all of the subsidiaries and regionals.
Have a nice day
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Why is it you think QUAINTARS is safe?
I still see NOAH'S ARK all over my screen (they go two by two). Wherever Qantas goes there is an Ansett trying its best to be next to him (or is it vice-versa). From here it looks like one airline with two different colours on the tail.
I still see NOAH'S ARK all over my screen (they go two by two). Wherever Qantas goes there is an Ansett trying its best to be next to him (or is it vice-versa). From here it looks like one airline with two different colours on the tail.
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I find it rather amasing that Australian taxes should be used to bail out Ansett a company owned by by Air New Zealand ( a foreign country !!!!) I do feel sorry for any Aus jobs that could be lost but it is not an Australian company. (I wait for the flack)
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There will be no flack,spanner,because you are correct. Kim Sleazly is desperate for a new political hammer after the thrashing he got over the boat people debacle. There is no way any government (Libs or Labour) in this country will bail out a foreign Company at taxpayer's expense. The voter backlash would be huge and a political disaster for the party responsible and little Johnny knows this.
There have been a number of foreign owned Companies in this country that have downscaled or moved off shore with the usual casualty of staff retrenchments. The Government has never offered assistance to the aussie workers (other than welfare) in those Companies and why should it?
The New Zealand government is the one who should be spending the bucks as it was their dopey Airline that got itself into deep $h!t with the purchase of Ansett in the first place. Whoever the genius was, in Air NZ, that suggested Singapore Airlines would pay a huge amount for Ansett needs to be committed to the local asylum.
....and yes I AM an Air NZ shareholder!
There have been a number of foreign owned Companies in this country that have downscaled or moved off shore with the usual casualty of staff retrenchments. The Government has never offered assistance to the aussie workers (other than welfare) in those Companies and why should it?
The New Zealand government is the one who should be spending the bucks as it was their dopey Airline that got itself into deep $h!t with the purchase of Ansett in the first place. Whoever the genius was, in Air NZ, that suggested Singapore Airlines would pay a huge amount for Ansett needs to be committed to the local asylum.
....and yes I AM an Air NZ shareholder!
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Well, Air NZ chose to buy Ansett and have it as a wholly owned subsidiary. Since then they have driven Ansett into the ground in a number of ways including replacing good experienced people, as RE did, with highly qualified dills with no real world skills and at higher salaries. Much corporate knowlege has been lost but EUREKA!! sometimes these clever dills discover things which were well and truly understood and applied well before they appeared on the scene. Trouble is maybe the dills are too numerous now and in positions where they can appoint further clones to replace a now demoralised and operationally depleted (not in number but in practical knowhow) workforce
There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for Australian taxpayers money to be used to drag them out of the mess of their own making. Let them stew in their own juice! It is a matter of problem ownership and it is THEIR problem.
That should result in them selling Ansett for whatever they can get for it. The buyer would get a bargain in the present circumstances because they would not make the stupid mistake of paying too much as Air NZ did.
Would be good if ownership could return to Australia in some way but.........sadly it's probably too late.
All this on top of the many other factors; assett stripping etc has most probably broken the camel's back.
There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for Australian taxpayers money to be used to drag them out of the mess of their own making. Let them stew in their own juice! It is a matter of problem ownership and it is THEIR problem.
That should result in them selling Ansett for whatever they can get for it. The buyer would get a bargain in the present circumstances because they would not make the stupid mistake of paying too much as Air NZ did.
Would be good if ownership could return to Australia in some way but.........sadly it's probably too late.
All this on top of the many other factors; assett stripping etc has most probably broken the camel's back.
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FSU is correct with the selling off of "non core assets" over the last few years contibuting to Ansett's problems.
This was done to increase the bottom line for a couple of years so things looked good, so leaving executives could get paid their bonuses and the selling price would go up. It does not leave anything in reserve when things go bad.
Some of these assets sold off (If my memory is correct)include part ownership of travel companies, resorts ie Hamilton Is, and probably their most profitable Ansett Air Freight which they sold to MN. AAF used to make 50 million a year profit and they sold it for around 100 million I think. Now that makes good economic sense!!!
Little wonder there is nothing left.
This was done to increase the bottom line for a couple of years so things looked good, so leaving executives could get paid their bonuses and the selling price would go up. It does not leave anything in reserve when things go bad.
Some of these assets sold off (If my memory is correct)include part ownership of travel companies, resorts ie Hamilton Is, and probably their most profitable Ansett Air Freight which they sold to MN. AAF used to make 50 million a year profit and they sold it for around 100 million I think. Now that makes good economic sense!!!
Little wonder there is nothing left.
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'ACT, (NZ political party),fears liquidation of Air NZ subsidiary
9 September 2001
ACT believes Air New Zealand may be forced to put Ansett Australia into liquidation as early as tomorrow.
Party leader Richard Prebble says the Government has been looking into the Air New Zealand situation for the last three months, but has achieved nothing.
With Ansett losing about $500 million a year, Mr Prebble says the Government should have given Singapore Airlines the go ahead to buy into Air New Zealand at $1.31 a share, long ago.
He says the shares are now worth a lot less.
Richard Prebble believes Ansett could be in the hands of liquidators as early as tomorrow.'
The end may be nigh!!
9 September 2001
ACT believes Air New Zealand may be forced to put Ansett Australia into liquidation as early as tomorrow.
Party leader Richard Prebble says the Government has been looking into the Air New Zealand situation for the last three months, but has achieved nothing.
With Ansett losing about $500 million a year, Mr Prebble says the Government should have given Singapore Airlines the go ahead to buy into Air New Zealand at $1.31 a share, long ago.
He says the shares are now worth a lot less.
Richard Prebble believes Ansett could be in the hands of liquidators as early as tomorrow.'
The end may be nigh!!
Just noticed on the AGE home page, Qantas advertising Syd-Mel for $77 webfares, from October 15th!! Tried to log onto the QF webpage to see if there were any seats available (usually only on the day after you want to travel), but it was clogged and overloaded.
Makes me wonder whether QF have something sinister in mind, like helping AN to the wall, and putting an end to DJ. The title of this thread will then read - "Then there was ONE!"
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Home Brew ]
Makes me wonder whether QF have something sinister in mind, like helping AN to the wall, and putting an end to DJ. The title of this thread will then read - "Then there was ONE!"
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Home Brew ]
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Home brew - the Qantas web site is always slow,especially when you are trying to redeem frequent flyer points!
I don't think there will ever be just one airline in this country. Everything points to Ansett going into receivership (NOT out of business)and the liquidators can sort out exactly what sort of financial mess the Company is really in.
At the moment no one knows for sure the real financial position of the Company. It looks bad losing $1.3M a day but if the potential is there to make $2M a day then you are looking at $700,000 profit a day. I know this sounds simplistic but I am also aware of how accountants can make the books read whatever you want, depending on whether you are buying the Company or selling it.
An independant liquidator will get to the bottom of it a lot sooner and more accurately than Company execs and government puppets.
There will be hardship initially amongst the employees and many will probably not get their jobs back, but the airline may just survive in a smaller and more efficient unit. This may result in X amount of jobs lost but it may not be as many as 15,000.
edited for typo.
[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: Whiskery ]
I don't think there will ever be just one airline in this country. Everything points to Ansett going into receivership (NOT out of business)and the liquidators can sort out exactly what sort of financial mess the Company is really in.
At the moment no one knows for sure the real financial position of the Company. It looks bad losing $1.3M a day but if the potential is there to make $2M a day then you are looking at $700,000 profit a day. I know this sounds simplistic but I am also aware of how accountants can make the books read whatever you want, depending on whether you are buying the Company or selling it.
An independant liquidator will get to the bottom of it a lot sooner and more accurately than Company execs and government puppets.
There will be hardship initially amongst the employees and many will probably not get their jobs back, but the airline may just survive in a smaller and more efficient unit. This may result in X amount of jobs lost but it may not be as many as 15,000.
edited for typo.
[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: Whiskery ]
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Ansett may yet become PART of Qantas, see latest Air NZ press release following.......
Air NZ and Qantas Start Discussions on Ansett (issued at 1950)
Mon 10 September 2001
The Board of Air New Zealand Limited has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions with Qantas, the Acting Chairman of Air New Zealand, Dr Jim Farmer, announced today.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations, and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
"The Board of Air New Zealand expects to be able to make an announcement on the progress of the discussions with Qantas on, or before, Thursday 13 September when the company is due to present its annual results.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Limited and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
Air NZ and Qantas Start Discussions on Ansett (issued at 1950)
Mon 10 September 2001
The Board of Air New Zealand Limited has offered to sell its Ansett subsidiary businesses to Qantas Airways Limited and has entered into discussions with Qantas, the Acting Chairman of Air New Zealand, Dr Jim Farmer, announced today.
"Ansett is continuing normal operations, and Qantas and Air New Zealand will continue discussions over the next few days on the terms of any acquisition of Ansett by Qantas.
"Any transaction would be subject to due diligence and approvals of the Australian and New Zealand Governments and regulatory approvals, including that of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
"The Board of Air New Zealand expects to be able to make an announcement on the progress of the discussions with Qantas on, or before, Thursday 13 September when the company is due to present its annual results.
"Meantime, Air New Zealand, its major shareholders, Brierley Investment Limited and Singapore Airlines Limited, and the New Zealand Government are continuing to negotiate in good faith to finalise arrangements to provide on-going financial support for the operation of Air New Zealand international and domestic airlines operations," Dr Farmer said.
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Unfortunately, it has now come to this and was forecast, by many contributors to this forum, well before Sept 13th 2001.
Andersons should be utterly ashamed of themselves for the way they have handled (not) the administration of Ansett.
I still cannot figure out what agenda Fox & Lew had in all this. It has been muted, in the circle, that the terminals were of some value But I don't buy that simply because terminals are of no value if they are not being used.
So now we have no payout to the creditors, bitterly disappointed (and I dare say ANGRY) staff members and finally the liquidation of a once great airline.
I think there are going to be some pretty busy litigation solicitors around the country before we see the end of this sorry saga.
Keep the faith:]
Andersons should be utterly ashamed of themselves for the way they have handled (not) the administration of Ansett.
I still cannot figure out what agenda Fox & Lew had in all this. It has been muted, in the circle, that the terminals were of some value But I don't buy that simply because terminals are of no value if they are not being used.
So now we have no payout to the creditors, bitterly disappointed (and I dare say ANGRY) staff members and finally the liquidation of a once great airline.
I think there are going to be some pretty busy litigation solicitors around the country before we see the end of this sorry saga.
Keep the faith:]
Bottums Up
For me, there are two sad points to all this.
Firstly to all the employees on the see-saw of employment/uneployment, my deepest commiseration. Many of us have been there and done that and DO know what you are going through.
Secondy, the uncalled for agro, over many PPRuNe threads as soon as someone voiced a differing opinion.
Such as those who slagged the likes of Terry McCrann (sp?) or others who voiced their opinion that Tesna would not get up. An opinion is not neccessarily an indicator of the voicers hope, just what they think.
Firstly to all the employees on the see-saw of employment/uneployment, my deepest commiseration. Many of us have been there and done that and DO know what you are going through.
Secondy, the uncalled for agro, over many PPRuNe threads as soon as someone voiced a differing opinion.
Such as those who slagged the likes of Terry McCrann (sp?) or others who voiced their opinion that Tesna would not get up. An opinion is not neccessarily an indicator of the voicers hope, just what they think.
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To those of you who continue to poor vitriole on any of us "89 ers" who dare to post on PPrune positive or negative, don't say that we didn't tell you this was the end game.
How is it that we could see this coming from Sept.13 yet you believers looking through "rose coloured glasses" couldn't.
The death of Ansett started back in about 1976 when Abeles was elected to the board.
In 1989 those of you who broke ranks only hastened the demise where hundreds of millions were poored down the drain buying loyalty. You who think you are not partially to blame should take a reality check.
It is a very sad end to a once great airline which for me personally died on 24 August 1989, RIP <img src="frown.gif" border="0">[/LIST]
. .Hindsight is a wonderful thing, IF YOU SEE IT COMING!
How is it that we could see this coming from Sept.13 yet you believers looking through "rose coloured glasses" couldn't.
The death of Ansett started back in about 1976 when Abeles was elected to the board.
In 1989 those of you who broke ranks only hastened the demise where hundreds of millions were poored down the drain buying loyalty. You who think you are not partially to blame should take a reality check.
It is a very sad end to a once great airline which for me personally died on 24 August 1989, RIP <img src="frown.gif" border="0">[/LIST]
. .Hindsight is a wonderful thing, IF YOU SEE IT COMING!