Finally A Military "Shield Of Steel" To Keep Out Illegals.
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Finally A Military "Shield Of Steel" To Keep Out Illegals.
Finally something is being done about all the illegals entering Australia. Australia will establish the biggest military shield since WW2 to prevent up to 5000 illegal boat people leaving Indonesia. A net intended to be that tight that even a rowboat could not slip through will be established using RAN vessels and RAAF Orion Aircraft (so it IS Aviation related.........)
The Australian force will patrol the waters between Australia and Indonesia to send a blunt message to the people smugglers. The Indonesian Government has agreed to the new force and will provide port access to the ships and refuelling facilities for the Orion Aircraft.
Once a vessel is detected it will be boarded and told to turn around and return to its port of departure. If any vessel should make it to Australian waters, it will be secured by a military boarding party and towed back into international waters.
The Navy Force will consist mainly of Fremantle Class Patrol Boats and a Frigate, supported around the clock by the RAAF Orion Aircraft.
The Australian force will patrol the waters between Australia and Indonesia to send a blunt message to the people smugglers. The Indonesian Government has agreed to the new force and will provide port access to the ships and refuelling facilities for the Orion Aircraft.
Once a vessel is detected it will be boarded and told to turn around and return to its port of departure. If any vessel should make it to Australian waters, it will be secured by a military boarding party and towed back into international waters.
The Navy Force will consist mainly of Fremantle Class Patrol Boats and a Frigate, supported around the clock by the RAAF Orion Aircraft.
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It's been a long time coming, but good to see them taking a stand. This situation just can't keep happening. I support the government in this....ALL VESSELS in Aussie waters BORDED and TOWED to Int'l waters.....HOORAY!!!!
Johnny has my vote for the next election.
Johnny has my vote for the next election.
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Makes you wonder why it's taken so long to work it out.
I suspect that now the Indons have shown their hand, their are no longer any diplomatic considerations.
I suspect that now the Indons have shown their hand, their are no longer any diplomatic considerations.
A fat lot that it will do in reality.
In international waters we have no right over the boats. They can sail as many as they want to from Indo and there is stuff all that we can do to prevent it.
As soon as they enter into Australian waters they become our responsibility thru international law.
Where do we turn them away to? Let them drown in the open ocean? Imagine the international rucus if we towed a boat back outside of our waters and it then sank killing all on board...
I imagine that once a boat enters Aussie waters, it will mysteriously start to develop poblems and start sinking requiring all on board to be rescued by Aussie authorites.
Once the boats are in international waters there is realistically nothing we can do to prevent the people from ending up here.
They have to be stopped at the indonesian end, and given Ms Megawhati's lack of desire for helping us, there is fat chance of that.
In international waters we have no right over the boats. They can sail as many as they want to from Indo and there is stuff all that we can do to prevent it.
As soon as they enter into Australian waters they become our responsibility thru international law.
Where do we turn them away to? Let them drown in the open ocean? Imagine the international rucus if we towed a boat back outside of our waters and it then sank killing all on board...
I imagine that once a boat enters Aussie waters, it will mysteriously start to develop poblems and start sinking requiring all on board to be rescued by Aussie authorites.
Once the boats are in international waters there is realistically nothing we can do to prevent the people from ending up here.
They have to be stopped at the indonesian end, and given Ms Megawhati's lack of desire for helping us, there is fat chance of that.
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As I said, the plan is to heavily patrol the area between Indonesia and Australia with surface ships and Orion aircraft.
When these boats carrying illegals are detected leaving Indonesian ports, they will then be turned around back into Indonesian Territory as soon as they try to leave it.
IF any should get through this net, and cross International waters without being stopped, THEN they will be escorted out of Australian territory. Hopefully none will get that far?
I agree that ideally Indonesia should stop letting them in, they may do that after this scheme starts to work and they have all these illegals stuck in Indonesia?
When these boats carrying illegals are detected leaving Indonesian ports, they will then be turned around back into Indonesian Territory as soon as they try to leave it.
IF any should get through this net, and cross International waters without being stopped, THEN they will be escorted out of Australian territory. Hopefully none will get that far?
I agree that ideally Indonesia should stop letting them in, they may do that after this scheme starts to work and they have all these illegals stuck in Indonesia?
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ABC Net Sun 5.26pm:
Tampa nears Christmas Island
The Norwegian tanker Tampa is moving into calmer waters closer to shore near Christmas Island for a ship-to-ship transfer of the 460 asylum seekers onboard.
At the same time, a Navy transport ship has also arrived close to Christmas Island and is being reprovisioned with supplies that the Government earlier landed on the island.
The Government has confirmed additional Navy vessels have been sent to the area.
The HMAS Manoora, a transport ship capable of moving up to 450 people and travelling 6,000 kilometres, is now visible offshore.
Military sources say a refuelling vessel has also been sent to the area and that preparations are now well advanced for a possible ship-to-ship transfer.
Sources say the decision on when to begin hinges on the outcome of a Federal Court hearing in Melbourne.
Independent sources have also confirmed that the asylum seekers onboard the Tampa have been told of the government's plan to send them to either New Zealand or Nauru.
Papua New Guinea has agreed to assist Australia in the transportation of the asylum seekers.
Describing the arrangement as a truly Pacific solution, Prime Minister John Howard says the troop ship could start accepting the asylum seekers as early as today.
"The Manoora is ready to take people onboard. The idea is that they should be transferred to the Manoora, then the Manoora will sail to Port Moresby. They'll then be transferred to aircraft that will take them to Nauru and to New Zealand," he said.
Tampa nears Christmas Island
The Norwegian tanker Tampa is moving into calmer waters closer to shore near Christmas Island for a ship-to-ship transfer of the 460 asylum seekers onboard.
At the same time, a Navy transport ship has also arrived close to Christmas Island and is being reprovisioned with supplies that the Government earlier landed on the island.
The Government has confirmed additional Navy vessels have been sent to the area.
The HMAS Manoora, a transport ship capable of moving up to 450 people and travelling 6,000 kilometres, is now visible offshore.
Military sources say a refuelling vessel has also been sent to the area and that preparations are now well advanced for a possible ship-to-ship transfer.
Sources say the decision on when to begin hinges on the outcome of a Federal Court hearing in Melbourne.
Independent sources have also confirmed that the asylum seekers onboard the Tampa have been told of the government's plan to send them to either New Zealand or Nauru.
Papua New Guinea has agreed to assist Australia in the transportation of the asylum seekers.
Describing the arrangement as a truly Pacific solution, Prime Minister John Howard says the troop ship could start accepting the asylum seekers as early as today.
"The Manoora is ready to take people onboard. The idea is that they should be transferred to the Manoora, then the Manoora will sail to Port Moresby. They'll then be transferred to aircraft that will take them to Nauru and to New Zealand," he said.
Given some of the recently-highlighted deficiencies in the performance of AusSar, I would make a shrewd guess that any illegal immigrants who have the misfortune to encounter serious problems with the stability/watertight-integrity/navigability of their craft have only an even chance of actually being located, let alone rescued. (Use of EPIRBS etc notwithstanding!)
I am curious as to how many illegals have actually perished on the open ocean in their attempts to get to Australia, and what the legal situation is for the organisations/individuals who sent them on their journey in vessels of dubious suitability/seaworthiness under international maritime law.
Does knowingly sending a group of paying passengers out in an unseaworthy vessel constitute an offence, and if, so, under whose jurisdiction should the offence(s) be tried? (Bear in mind that the International Maritime Organisation is so totally toothless that it couldn't eat a jam sandwich with the crusts cut off!)
Finally:-
i)has the costing for this "shield of steel" been released,
ii) if it has, who audited it,
iii) how does the government propose to raise the necessary millions of dollars to pay for direct and indirect operating costs of the military assets which will need to be deployed, and
iv) does our military have the capability to actually carry out the task effectively?
I am curious as to how many illegals have actually perished on the open ocean in their attempts to get to Australia, and what the legal situation is for the organisations/individuals who sent them on their journey in vessels of dubious suitability/seaworthiness under international maritime law.
Does knowingly sending a group of paying passengers out in an unseaworthy vessel constitute an offence, and if, so, under whose jurisdiction should the offence(s) be tried? (Bear in mind that the International Maritime Organisation is so totally toothless that it couldn't eat a jam sandwich with the crusts cut off!)
Finally:-
i)has the costing for this "shield of steel" been released,
ii) if it has, who audited it,
iii) how does the government propose to raise the necessary millions of dollars to pay for direct and indirect operating costs of the military assets which will need to be deployed, and
iv) does our military have the capability to actually carry out the task effectively?
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ABC net Sun 5.26pm AEST:
Federal Court
The captain of the Norwegian ship at the centre of the controversy is refusing to join a phone link-up to the Federal Court in Melbourne until he has spoken to his superiors.
Captain Arne Rinnan was yesterday ordered to testify at today's hearing on two applications made on behalf of the asylum seekers.
Repeated efforts by court officials to establish the line went unanswered today.
Justice Tony North said Captain Rinnan could be ordered to the court to Melbourne if necessary.
The Commonwealth Solicitor-General told the Court the asylum seekers and the ship they are on are free to go anywhere in the world - except Australia.
David Bennet was putting the Federal Government's opening arguments in the case.
Mr Bennet also argued allowing the people to land would enable them access to a whole series of rights and obligations to which they are not entitled.
He says suggestions they, or the ship, are being detained are wrong, because there is only one place in the world they cannot go.
Immigration Department secretary William Farmer said previous experience suggests up to 90 per cent of the Afghani refugees on the Tampa could be eligible for protection visas in Australia.
The hearing is continuing.
Federal Court
The captain of the Norwegian ship at the centre of the controversy is refusing to join a phone link-up to the Federal Court in Melbourne until he has spoken to his superiors.
Captain Arne Rinnan was yesterday ordered to testify at today's hearing on two applications made on behalf of the asylum seekers.
Repeated efforts by court officials to establish the line went unanswered today.
Justice Tony North said Captain Rinnan could be ordered to the court to Melbourne if necessary.
The Commonwealth Solicitor-General told the Court the asylum seekers and the ship they are on are free to go anywhere in the world - except Australia.
David Bennet was putting the Federal Government's opening arguments in the case.
Mr Bennet also argued allowing the people to land would enable them access to a whole series of rights and obligations to which they are not entitled.
He says suggestions they, or the ship, are being detained are wrong, because there is only one place in the world they cannot go.
Immigration Department secretary William Farmer said previous experience suggests up to 90 per cent of the Afghani refugees on the Tampa could be eligible for protection visas in Australia.
The hearing is continuing.
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criticalmass,
There was no mention of costings at all.
However as an Australian taxpayer I think it would be money WELL spent.
Surely a lot of the operations could be instead of other less important operations, or instead of some of the regular exercises that they hold?
Of course assuming it works, it MAY pay for itself........ there would be a massive saving in the area of all the things we provide for these illegals when they arrive here, (housing, food, social security, costs of defending the endless court cases etc etc)and remember they were going to build more detention centres for them at a cost of millions of dollars, those would not now be required.
Best regards,
"lame"
There was no mention of costings at all.
However as an Australian taxpayer I think it would be money WELL spent.
Surely a lot of the operations could be instead of other less important operations, or instead of some of the regular exercises that they hold?
Of course assuming it works, it MAY pay for itself........ there would be a massive saving in the area of all the things we provide for these illegals when they arrive here, (housing, food, social security, costs of defending the endless court cases etc etc)and remember they were going to build more detention centres for them at a cost of millions of dollars, those would not now be required.
Best regards,
"lame"
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I think it's great for our military to be utilized defending Australia.
Good for morale, good for Oz, good for the Orion crews who will get a decent amount of flying.
It's also good for the contractors supplying the military. I notice that the Govt has announced the procurement of a whole lot more patrol boats.
Since the systems the military have are so good at detecting incoming threats I expect the positions of illegal traffic will be advertised for those who would prefer to remain clear.
Actually Orions might be a smart choice... able to drop survival gear but unable to pick anyone up
Good for morale, good for Oz, good for the Orion crews who will get a decent amount of flying.
It's also good for the contractors supplying the military. I notice that the Govt has announced the procurement of a whole lot more patrol boats.
Since the systems the military have are so good at detecting incoming threats I expect the positions of illegal traffic will be advertised for those who would prefer to remain clear.
Actually Orions might be a smart choice... able to drop survival gear but unable to pick anyone up
Props are for boats!
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The Military will benefit greatly from this task. But I THINK it will only be a short term operation, as the government has indicated. If the government is ordering more patrol boats etc. thats a good change.
Its funny how we need international crisis, to promote pumping up our defences. The old wheel is reinvented constantly. When I joined the R.A.A.F. in 1987 there were 23,000 personnel approx. and when I disharged in 1996 16,500 approx was the total. I believe now this has increased again, anyone know whats the current personnel total in the R.A.A.F.
One thing I do agree on that the Government has not promoted, is a new COAST GUARD for Australia. It would tie up all the lose ends of Ausar,respond to the 5000 annual sightings by Coaswatch,and alleviate the share the pressure with our Navy.We have got I think the largest chunk of Ocean in the world to respond to for a single sovereign nation.
You may remember when the National Safet Council Victoria branch was bolstered by that Freidrickson fellow way back.Well I know he did the dirty but, had a good idea I think.
Its funny how we need international crisis, to promote pumping up our defences. The old wheel is reinvented constantly. When I joined the R.A.A.F. in 1987 there were 23,000 personnel approx. and when I disharged in 1996 16,500 approx was the total. I believe now this has increased again, anyone know whats the current personnel total in the R.A.A.F.
One thing I do agree on that the Government has not promoted, is a new COAST GUARD for Australia. It would tie up all the lose ends of Ausar,respond to the 5000 annual sightings by Coaswatch,and alleviate the share the pressure with our Navy.We have got I think the largest chunk of Ocean in the world to respond to for a single sovereign nation.
You may remember when the National Safet Council Victoria branch was bolstered by that Freidrickson fellow way back.Well I know he did the dirty but, had a good idea I think.
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What about the people at Coaswtwatch? They spend a fair bit of time up north catching illegals. It is my understanding that the Dash 8 surveillance radar is far more modern and capable of finding a wooden vessel in the type of sea state that you will find up there than that of the Orion. Cheaper to run than the Orion as well.
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Scando:
Coming to a country near you and shortly to yours, and for information to anyone doubting the severity of the worlds migration problems much truth and edification is easily obtainable on the net.
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia -- Malaysia is looking at caning illegal immigrants as part of tougher measures being considered to deter a growing number of migrants.
"Authorities have arrested some 50,000 foreigners for various immigration offences during the first six months of the year, a top Malaysian official said." http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapc...ane/index.html
MADRID, Spain (Reuters) -- Spain's Foreign Minister Josep Pique said on Tuesday he had summoned Morocco's ambassador to express concern that the North African was not doing enough to stem record numbers of illegal immigrants coming into Spain.
"The events of the last few days are unacceptable. We have arranged a meeting with the Moroccan ambassador to tell this to him," Pique told news agency Europa Press in an interview.
Last weekend an estimated 800 immigrants were detained on Spain's southern coast and the Canary Islands in a land-and-sea swoop by police, Spanish police said. At least two people died before reaching shore. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa...eut/index.html
ATHENS, Greece -- A Turkish man was shot dead in his boat by Greek coastguards on Thursday after dropping off nine illegal immigrants on the island of Kos.
"Thousands of immigrants from Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe cross illegally into Greece every year through its northern border or by sea, many aiming for central or northern Europe."
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...ler/index.html
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Boats, trains and lorries have proven to be the most popular way for illegal asylum seekers to attempt border crossings, but other methods have been more daring and dangerous.
Tens of thousands of people attempt to make illegal crossings each year in search of a safe haven or a better economic environment.
Most pay high sums of money to take ships across oceans or trucks over mountains. But some attempts have been more desperate. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...ing/index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Mexican government plan to help immigrants who are trying to cross into the United States has rapidly become a diplomatic issue.
Last year, 369 people died struggling across the swirling rivers and scorching deserts that constitute the U.S.-Mexico border. Just Wednesday, 12 men died near Yuma, Arizona, as they were being smuggled north. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/americ...val/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/05/24/bor...ths/index.html
(CNN) -- Heading north at full throttle, an overloaded smugglers boat races from Cuba to the Florida Keys. Powered by twin 250 horsepower engines, the boat outruns the authorities, and is beached behind the condos near Marathon, Florida. On board, human cargo: 21 Cuban men, women and children.
The lucrative and dangerous business of smuggling Cubans to the United States is booming, and, according to authorities, is becoming more organized. As one U.S. Border Patrol agent put it, "We are being overrun now." Last year, 1,115 smuggled Cuban immigrants landed in the Florida Keys. This year, that number was surpassed by early June.
Patricia Diaz, an Assistant U.S.Attorney in Miami says, "I see the smugglers are getting ever more aggressive. They're piling even more people on the boats. They are getting even more reckless." http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/07/23/cub...ing/index.html
JALOZAI REFUGEE CAMP, Pakistan (CNN) -- Three years of drought and 20 years of civil war have taken a harsh toll on the Afghan people, forcing hundreds of thousands of them to flee horrid conditions at home for refugee camps where they may fare no better.
The situation is dire enough for internally displaced Afghans, aid officials say, but worse for those who fled across Afghanistan's borders into neighbouring countries, where they are often considered little more than illegal immigrants.
Such is the case at Jalozai, a squalid camp in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province, where 80,000 Afghans live in what residents call "a living graveyard." http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapc...ity/index.html
BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Belgium has suspended the issuing of travel visas to Russian citizens for two weeks in protest over illegal immigrants from the country.
A government spokesman said on Saturday: "The Council of Ministers yesterday took the decision to close the visa section of the Belgian embassy in Moscow for a fortnight."
The two countries are in dispute over the repatriation of Russian illegal immigrants.
"The spokesman added: "It's complicated because in many cases the Russians say 'Is this person really Russian? He speaks Russian but could he be from a different former Soviet country?'"
He declined to say how many illegal immigrants were awaiting repatriation to Russia but said "several thousands" had to be sent back from Belgium every year."
ROME, Italy -- More that 560 illegal immigrants have safely reached shore in Italy after being set adrift in the Adriatic Sea.
Their rusting, Turkish-registered ship was towed by a coastguard vessel after passengers sent out a mayday call on Saturday night.
A total of 562 immigrants, including 63 children, were on board, coastguard official Lieutenant Vincenzo Amanti said.
"They are mostly Kurds, Sri Lankans, Iraquis and Iranians," he added.
An ill child and a pregnant woman were rushed to a hospital when they docked, RAI state television reported. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...nts/index.html
ATHENS, Greece -- A boat carrying more than 250 immigrants has run aground in Greece.
The Greek Merchant Marine Ministry said three Turkish crew had been arrested and were due to appear before a public prosecutor.
The 20-metre boat ran aground on Evia island, near Athens, and 17 children were among the mainly Kurdish immigrants.
Greek authorities transferred the immigrants to a cultural centre where they were being detained.
Greece is a favoured entry point for illegal aliens from the Middle East, Africa and Asia who are trying to make their way to other European Union countries. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...rds/index.html
null
Coming to a country near you and shortly to yours, and for information to anyone doubting the severity of the worlds migration problems much truth and edification is easily obtainable on the net.
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia -- Malaysia is looking at caning illegal immigrants as part of tougher measures being considered to deter a growing number of migrants.
"Authorities have arrested some 50,000 foreigners for various immigration offences during the first six months of the year, a top Malaysian official said." http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapc...ane/index.html
MADRID, Spain (Reuters) -- Spain's Foreign Minister Josep Pique said on Tuesday he had summoned Morocco's ambassador to express concern that the North African was not doing enough to stem record numbers of illegal immigrants coming into Spain.
"The events of the last few days are unacceptable. We have arranged a meeting with the Moroccan ambassador to tell this to him," Pique told news agency Europa Press in an interview.
Last weekend an estimated 800 immigrants were detained on Spain's southern coast and the Canary Islands in a land-and-sea swoop by police, Spanish police said. At least two people died before reaching shore. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa...eut/index.html
ATHENS, Greece -- A Turkish man was shot dead in his boat by Greek coastguards on Thursday after dropping off nine illegal immigrants on the island of Kos.
"Thousands of immigrants from Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe cross illegally into Greece every year through its northern border or by sea, many aiming for central or northern Europe."
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...ler/index.html
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Boats, trains and lorries have proven to be the most popular way for illegal asylum seekers to attempt border crossings, but other methods have been more daring and dangerous.
Tens of thousands of people attempt to make illegal crossings each year in search of a safe haven or a better economic environment.
Most pay high sums of money to take ships across oceans or trucks over mountains. But some attempts have been more desperate. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...ing/index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Mexican government plan to help immigrants who are trying to cross into the United States has rapidly become a diplomatic issue.
Last year, 369 people died struggling across the swirling rivers and scorching deserts that constitute the U.S.-Mexico border. Just Wednesday, 12 men died near Yuma, Arizona, as they were being smuggled north. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/americ...val/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/05/24/bor...ths/index.html
(CNN) -- Heading north at full throttle, an overloaded smugglers boat races from Cuba to the Florida Keys. Powered by twin 250 horsepower engines, the boat outruns the authorities, and is beached behind the condos near Marathon, Florida. On board, human cargo: 21 Cuban men, women and children.
The lucrative and dangerous business of smuggling Cubans to the United States is booming, and, according to authorities, is becoming more organized. As one U.S. Border Patrol agent put it, "We are being overrun now." Last year, 1,115 smuggled Cuban immigrants landed in the Florida Keys. This year, that number was surpassed by early June.
Patricia Diaz, an Assistant U.S.Attorney in Miami says, "I see the smugglers are getting ever more aggressive. They're piling even more people on the boats. They are getting even more reckless." http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/07/23/cub...ing/index.html
JALOZAI REFUGEE CAMP, Pakistan (CNN) -- Three years of drought and 20 years of civil war have taken a harsh toll on the Afghan people, forcing hundreds of thousands of them to flee horrid conditions at home for refugee camps where they may fare no better.
The situation is dire enough for internally displaced Afghans, aid officials say, but worse for those who fled across Afghanistan's borders into neighbouring countries, where they are often considered little more than illegal immigrants.
Such is the case at Jalozai, a squalid camp in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province, where 80,000 Afghans live in what residents call "a living graveyard." http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapc...ity/index.html
BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Belgium has suspended the issuing of travel visas to Russian citizens for two weeks in protest over illegal immigrants from the country.
A government spokesman said on Saturday: "The Council of Ministers yesterday took the decision to close the visa section of the Belgian embassy in Moscow for a fortnight."
The two countries are in dispute over the repatriation of Russian illegal immigrants.
"The spokesman added: "It's complicated because in many cases the Russians say 'Is this person really Russian? He speaks Russian but could he be from a different former Soviet country?'"
He declined to say how many illegal immigrants were awaiting repatriation to Russia but said "several thousands" had to be sent back from Belgium every year."
ROME, Italy -- More that 560 illegal immigrants have safely reached shore in Italy after being set adrift in the Adriatic Sea.
Their rusting, Turkish-registered ship was towed by a coastguard vessel after passengers sent out a mayday call on Saturday night.
A total of 562 immigrants, including 63 children, were on board, coastguard official Lieutenant Vincenzo Amanti said.
"They are mostly Kurds, Sri Lankans, Iraquis and Iranians," he added.
An ill child and a pregnant woman were rushed to a hospital when they docked, RAI state television reported. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...nts/index.html
ATHENS, Greece -- A boat carrying more than 250 immigrants has run aground in Greece.
The Greek Merchant Marine Ministry said three Turkish crew had been arrested and were due to appear before a public prosecutor.
The 20-metre boat ran aground on Evia island, near Athens, and 17 children were among the mainly Kurdish immigrants.
Greek authorities transferred the immigrants to a cultural centre where they were being detained.
Greece is a favoured entry point for illegal aliens from the Middle East, Africa and Asia who are trying to make their way to other European Union countries. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...rds/index.html
null
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Time spent at PPrune can be entertaining and allows one to pass a point of view however, if we passionately believe in this viewpoint the place to place it where it may achieve something is with our politicians.
In addition to spending time here making your point spend an equal but more productive time writing to your politician expressing your support. (If you disagree then you are FREE to express that point.)
The address of your local MP can be found at: http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/index.htm
And your Senators at: http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/index.htm
Remember; we all have 10 Senators in each State representing us; write to all of them, regardless of their party, letting them know your view and value of your vote.
What does this have to do with aviation you may ask? Once we get in the habit of calling, writing your local member then maybe, just maybe, we will do it more often to correct the many problems the aviation industry faces in our country. Secondly, owning a free country to fly around.
True to form, Truth has been the first casualty of the majority of media, commentators and journalists who, additionally, have a great difficulty establishing where their loyalties lie.
Mr. Richard Flanagan writing in Melbourne’s Sunday Age illustrates this point perfectly destroying his article and his credibility in his first paragraph thus:
”Some things need to be said plainly. Australia does not have a refugee problem. It is estimated that 11,000,000 illegal migrants cross the Mexican border into the US each year. The European Union faces a similar onslaught from Eastern Europe.
Australia, on the other hand, has fewer than 4000 refugees locked away in detention centres. That is all. We are not being flooded and we are not, given our great physical isolation, ever going to be flooded in the way Europe and the US are.
But we have made a problem of how we look after those few who do make it here, often under great adversity and after experiencing unimaginable horror; those who go on hunger strike, who riot, who sew their lips in protest, whose children appear mute on our television, who sit on the hot, crowded metal deck of a container ship surrounded by heavily armed soldiers.”
A simple search on the Internet `Mexico’ reveals the following:
Mexico
Population
The eleventh annual census, conducted in 1990, reported a total Mexican population of 81,250,000. This figure represented a 2.3 percent per annum growth rate from the 1980 census and indicated successful government efforts at slowing down the level of population increase. The government reported that the population stood at 91,158,000 at the end of 1995, a 1.8 percent increase over the previous year. Assuming that this most recent level of growth were maintained through the rest of the 1990s, Mexico's population would stand at approximately 100 million persons in the year 2000. A return to the higher 1980 to 1990 growth rate, however, would result in a population total of approximately 102 million persons by the year 2000.
The pace of migration to the United States increased markedly during the 1980s. One analyst, Rodolfo Corona Vázquez, estimated that 4.4 million Mexicans resided outside the country (almost all in the United States) in 1990, roughly double the estimated number in 1980.
Corona Vázquez also noted a changing pattern of emigration since the 1960s. Seven contiguous states in north central Mexico--Jalisco, Michoacán, Guanajuato, Zacatecas, Durango, San Luis Potos', and Aguasca-lientes--accounted for approximately 70 percent of all emigrants in 1960, but only 42 percent in 1990. New important sources of emigration included Chihuahua in the northeast, the Federal District (the administrative unit that includes Mexico City), and the southernmost state of Oaxaca."
Hardly “11,000,000 illegal migrants cross the Mexican border into the US each year“ and Mr Flanagan expects people to buy his new novel Gould's Book of Fish is to be published next month. Another litany of mistruths and imaginations, Mr. Flanagan?
Surely, you do not possibly expect us to buy your book now?
Firstly, we protect My Country, Your Country, Our Country then, and only then, can we offer compassion, humanity and succour to the rest of the world.
Australia’s record is one we can be proud of!
Mexico
In addition to spending time here making your point spend an equal but more productive time writing to your politician expressing your support. (If you disagree then you are FREE to express that point.)
The address of your local MP can be found at: http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/index.htm
And your Senators at: http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/index.htm
Remember; we all have 10 Senators in each State representing us; write to all of them, regardless of their party, letting them know your view and value of your vote.
What does this have to do with aviation you may ask? Once we get in the habit of calling, writing your local member then maybe, just maybe, we will do it more often to correct the many problems the aviation industry faces in our country. Secondly, owning a free country to fly around.
True to form, Truth has been the first casualty of the majority of media, commentators and journalists who, additionally, have a great difficulty establishing where their loyalties lie.
Mr. Richard Flanagan writing in Melbourne’s Sunday Age illustrates this point perfectly destroying his article and his credibility in his first paragraph thus:
”Some things need to be said plainly. Australia does not have a refugee problem. It is estimated that 11,000,000 illegal migrants cross the Mexican border into the US each year. The European Union faces a similar onslaught from Eastern Europe.
Australia, on the other hand, has fewer than 4000 refugees locked away in detention centres. That is all. We are not being flooded and we are not, given our great physical isolation, ever going to be flooded in the way Europe and the US are.
But we have made a problem of how we look after those few who do make it here, often under great adversity and after experiencing unimaginable horror; those who go on hunger strike, who riot, who sew their lips in protest, whose children appear mute on our television, who sit on the hot, crowded metal deck of a container ship surrounded by heavily armed soldiers.”
A simple search on the Internet `Mexico’ reveals the following:
Mexico
Population
The eleventh annual census, conducted in 1990, reported a total Mexican population of 81,250,000. This figure represented a 2.3 percent per annum growth rate from the 1980 census and indicated successful government efforts at slowing down the level of population increase. The government reported that the population stood at 91,158,000 at the end of 1995, a 1.8 percent increase over the previous year. Assuming that this most recent level of growth were maintained through the rest of the 1990s, Mexico's population would stand at approximately 100 million persons in the year 2000. A return to the higher 1980 to 1990 growth rate, however, would result in a population total of approximately 102 million persons by the year 2000.
The pace of migration to the United States increased markedly during the 1980s. One analyst, Rodolfo Corona Vázquez, estimated that 4.4 million Mexicans resided outside the country (almost all in the United States) in 1990, roughly double the estimated number in 1980.
Corona Vázquez also noted a changing pattern of emigration since the 1960s. Seven contiguous states in north central Mexico--Jalisco, Michoacán, Guanajuato, Zacatecas, Durango, San Luis Potos', and Aguasca-lientes--accounted for approximately 70 percent of all emigrants in 1960, but only 42 percent in 1990. New important sources of emigration included Chihuahua in the northeast, the Federal District (the administrative unit that includes Mexico City), and the southernmost state of Oaxaca."
Hardly “11,000,000 illegal migrants cross the Mexican border into the US each year“ and Mr Flanagan expects people to buy his new novel Gould's Book of Fish is to be published next month. Another litany of mistruths and imaginations, Mr. Flanagan?
Surely, you do not possibly expect us to buy your book now?
Firstly, we protect My Country, Your Country, Our Country then, and only then, can we offer compassion, humanity and succour to the rest of the world.
Australia’s record is one we can be proud of!
Mexico
Guest
Posts: n/a
2 September 2001
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
PRESS CONFERENCE, SYDNEY
E&OE…………………………………………R 30;………………………………………
Ladies and gentlemen I can announce that an agreement has been reached with the Government of Papua New Guinea for the trans-shipment of the people from the Tampa through Port Moresby and then via aircraft to both Nauru and New Zealand. The proposal is that the people should be transferred from the Tampa to the amphibious troop ship Manoora which is a very large vessel capable of travelling six thousand kilometres. It’s a large troop ship that has extensive medical facilities on board including I understand two operating theatres. Troops remain on this ship for weeks on end. It is within the inevitable constraints of any vessel quite comfortable and it can adequately accommodate all of the people who will be taken from the Tampa.
I am told by the Chief of the Defence Force through the Defence Minister that as I speak the Manoora is ready to take people on board. The Manoora is now ready to take people on board. The idea is that they should be transferred to the Manoora then the Manoora will sail to Port Moresby and then they will be transferred to aircraft that will take them to Nauru and to New Zealand. I can also inform you that a party comprising representatives from the Department of Immigration and other relevant Federal Government departments are on the way to Nauru with a view to putting in hand preparations for the construction of temporary accommodation by way of a tent facility for the people to be received on that island.
So in quite a real sense the arrangements are now in place. We have achieved an humanitarian outcome. All of the people can be properly cared for. They will on my advice be far more comfortable on the Manoora than they are on the Tampa. I repeat that the Manoora is now ready to take people on board. It could begin to take people on board today and complete that process tomorrow. So I want it to be understood that all the arrangements that were necessary to put in place the execution of the arrangement that I negotiated with the governments of New Zealand and Nauru yesterday, all of the things that are necessary to give effect to that are now in place. And from our point of view the government is ready, the Defence Forces are ready, the Immigration authorities are ready to give effect to that plan. I want to record my deep appreciation to the Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea, Sir Mekere Morauta, for the cooperation and the willingness of the government of that country to cooperate with Australia in relation to this issue. This is a truly Pacific solution to a problem which involved the governments of Australia, New Zealand, Nauru and Papua New Guinea and they have all worked together and I again express on behalf of the Government and the Australian people our thanks to the governments and the people of those three countries for their willingness to cooperate. I believe that the humanitarian consideration and the best welfare of the people now on the vessel will be better met if they can be transferred as soon as possible to the Manoora where the conditions are obviously more comfortable than what they are on the Tampa.
JOURNALIST:
Will you wait for the outcome of the Federal Court hearing before any movement of people…..?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is a rule of law in this country.
JOURNALIST:
But you are waiting until the hearing……?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t want to talk about the court proceedings. We have a very strong view about the action that’s being brought but that view is being put in the Federal Court by the Commonwealth counsel and it’s not appropriate that I add to it.
JOURNALIST:
What time are you expecting to be able to start moving people onto the Menoora?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are ready but there is a court action going on.
JOURNALIST:
So the court action is delaying it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well self evidently if there is a court order that people can’t be shifted we have to take account of that and that is my understanding. But I want it to be known and the court is being informed that the Manoora is now ready to take people.
JOURNALIST:
What are the terms of the financial arrangements with Nauru?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have said that we will underwrite the total cost of this, total cost. There’ll be no expense at all borne by Nauru. None what so ever.
JOURNALIST:
What do you expect that to be?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t know but I should point out that there’s a broad cost of $50,000 a head for each person who comes here and seeks refugee status. So I mean if you’re looking at expense if the whole 460 had been accepted and processed and everything you’re looking at about $22 million. I think people have got to bear that in mind in trying to assess the cost of this. But the cost is important but there are other considerations as well. Cost is not the only issue. But in the long run a rising tide of illegal immigration to this country is very expensive for us, very expensive indeed. So I don’t think anybody should think that what we’re proposing in relation to Nauru and all the other arrangements we’re making are going to be vastly more costly than if we had simply accepted the people in here because accepting them in is quite expensive too. But that is not the dominant consideration. The dominant consideration is to regain control of the integrity of our borders and to make it plain that this country is not a country of easy destination for people smuggling and for illegal immigration.
JOURNALIST:
How does Nauru benefit from this arrangement?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it was an act of involvement by Nauru in solving a problem involving the area. I mean I’m very grateful, very grateful indeed.
JOURNALIST:
How significant is it that it’s a Pacific solution rather than an Asian solution?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it just indicates that there’s a good feeling and there’s a comity amongst the nations of the Pacific and that we have good relations with those countries. But look, I haven’t sort of sat and tried to weigh it on the scale. It just is a very satisfactory outcome and I’m very pleased with the countries of the Pacific. I thank New Zealand, I thank Nauru, and I thank Papua New Guinea.
JOURNALIST:
How do you think the world views our handling of the situation?
PRIME MINISTER:
People who think will understand why we’ve done it and certainly those people who think about will support what we’ve done.
JOURNALIST:
There are suggestions that one of the asylum seekers on board the Tampa has died…..
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven’t heard anything about that. I haven’t heard anything to that effect.
JOURNALIST:
Regarding the enhanced patrol, you said five aircraft….
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I said five vessels and 4 P3 Orion aircraft.
JOURNALIST:
Can you say which …..?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I'll have to check on that but….
JOURNALIST:
Do we know which, obviously it involves Indonesia, do you know….
PRIME MINISTER:
When you say involves Indonesia, I didn’t say that.
JOURNALIST:
Well it’s between Indonesia and…
PRIME MINISTER:
No it’s in international waters between the Indonesian archipelago and Australia. The surveillance will take place in international waters, the international waters that lie between the Indonesian archipelago and Australia. Indonesia has been informed. Indonesia was informed on Friday. Indonesia thanks us for informing them and they have offered refuelling facilities and home porting facilities.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, I’m sorry, I don’t know yet. You’d have to ask the defence authorities that. I don’t carry that around in my head I’m sorry.
JOURNALIST:
The US State Department says the increase in [inaudible] illegal asylum seekers coming from Indonesia is a demonstration….make it easy for terrorists to infiltrate the region. Is there any information to suggest that there maybe…..?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven’t seen that statement but obviously there is a potential when you have an increased flow of illegal immigrants. Of course there is a potential. Mr Ruddock has talked about that on numerous occasions. I mean there are a whole host of reasons relating to that and other reasons why we have to use every means at our disposal consistent with the law and consistent with the decency of Australia as a humane nation to slow and hopefully stop the flow of illegal immigrants now. What we have done we hope and we believe will have a deterrent effect, I can’t guarantee or promise that it is going to stop it altogether. I am not doing that. I want to make that very clear but what I am saying is that we have sent a very strong signal in relation to the Tampa and by the increased surveillance and I hope that will act as a very powerful deterrent. But it is a very difficult issue and we do need a Memorandum of Understanding with Indonesia. We have been endeavouring to negotiate that now for months. Any suggestion that we haven’t been trying to do that is wrong. There are three ministers going to Jakarta next week. I raised the matter when I was in Jakarta with senior ministers of the Indonesian government. Our proposal was that we will fully fund construction of a detention centre in Indonesia through the International Organisation of Migration. That remains our position. So we are doing all we can but we need the cooperation of other countries.
JOURNALIST::
What exactly are our vessels going to do when they come across boatpeople?
PRIME MINISTER::
I have been asked that question on a number of occasions. They will act both lawfully and decently but as to the rest of it, I am not going to go into that.
JOURNALIST:
Are you reviewing policies for refugees?
PRIME MINISTER:
No we are not reviewing our longstanding willingness to take refugees. We continue to be a country that will shoulder our share of the refugee burden. We are the second most generous country in the world after Canada on a per capita basis and that will remain. This incident will not diminish our willingness to take refugees properly assessed in the normal way by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees. That is what we are endeavouring to do. We are endeavouring to establish the integrity of the international refugee assessment process, that’s what we want. That will happen in relation to these people. If they are taken to those third countries they will be assessed out of Australia. Those judged to be refugees will then be treated in accordance with the proper refugee process. Now that is what we want. And if these people some of them can establish a refugee entitlement well they have a right like other refugees to be given an opportunity of settling in another country and Australia will continue to take her share. But what is happening with illegal migration is undermining the whole process of refugee assessment and that is what we are fighting to restore, the integrity of the process. We are not trying to stop countries taking refugees, we want countries to take refugees, we want to take refugees but we are not going to accept people who haven’t established a refugee claim before they come to this country.
Thank you.
[ends]
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
PRESS CONFERENCE, SYDNEY
E&OE…………………………………………R 30;………………………………………
Ladies and gentlemen I can announce that an agreement has been reached with the Government of Papua New Guinea for the trans-shipment of the people from the Tampa through Port Moresby and then via aircraft to both Nauru and New Zealand. The proposal is that the people should be transferred from the Tampa to the amphibious troop ship Manoora which is a very large vessel capable of travelling six thousand kilometres. It’s a large troop ship that has extensive medical facilities on board including I understand two operating theatres. Troops remain on this ship for weeks on end. It is within the inevitable constraints of any vessel quite comfortable and it can adequately accommodate all of the people who will be taken from the Tampa.
I am told by the Chief of the Defence Force through the Defence Minister that as I speak the Manoora is ready to take people on board. The Manoora is now ready to take people on board. The idea is that they should be transferred to the Manoora then the Manoora will sail to Port Moresby and then they will be transferred to aircraft that will take them to Nauru and to New Zealand. I can also inform you that a party comprising representatives from the Department of Immigration and other relevant Federal Government departments are on the way to Nauru with a view to putting in hand preparations for the construction of temporary accommodation by way of a tent facility for the people to be received on that island.
So in quite a real sense the arrangements are now in place. We have achieved an humanitarian outcome. All of the people can be properly cared for. They will on my advice be far more comfortable on the Manoora than they are on the Tampa. I repeat that the Manoora is now ready to take people on board. It could begin to take people on board today and complete that process tomorrow. So I want it to be understood that all the arrangements that were necessary to put in place the execution of the arrangement that I negotiated with the governments of New Zealand and Nauru yesterday, all of the things that are necessary to give effect to that are now in place. And from our point of view the government is ready, the Defence Forces are ready, the Immigration authorities are ready to give effect to that plan. I want to record my deep appreciation to the Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea, Sir Mekere Morauta, for the cooperation and the willingness of the government of that country to cooperate with Australia in relation to this issue. This is a truly Pacific solution to a problem which involved the governments of Australia, New Zealand, Nauru and Papua New Guinea and they have all worked together and I again express on behalf of the Government and the Australian people our thanks to the governments and the people of those three countries for their willingness to cooperate. I believe that the humanitarian consideration and the best welfare of the people now on the vessel will be better met if they can be transferred as soon as possible to the Manoora where the conditions are obviously more comfortable than what they are on the Tampa.
JOURNALIST:
Will you wait for the outcome of the Federal Court hearing before any movement of people…..?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is a rule of law in this country.
JOURNALIST:
But you are waiting until the hearing……?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t want to talk about the court proceedings. We have a very strong view about the action that’s being brought but that view is being put in the Federal Court by the Commonwealth counsel and it’s not appropriate that I add to it.
JOURNALIST:
What time are you expecting to be able to start moving people onto the Menoora?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are ready but there is a court action going on.
JOURNALIST:
So the court action is delaying it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well self evidently if there is a court order that people can’t be shifted we have to take account of that and that is my understanding. But I want it to be known and the court is being informed that the Manoora is now ready to take people.
JOURNALIST:
What are the terms of the financial arrangements with Nauru?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have said that we will underwrite the total cost of this, total cost. There’ll be no expense at all borne by Nauru. None what so ever.
JOURNALIST:
What do you expect that to be?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t know but I should point out that there’s a broad cost of $50,000 a head for each person who comes here and seeks refugee status. So I mean if you’re looking at expense if the whole 460 had been accepted and processed and everything you’re looking at about $22 million. I think people have got to bear that in mind in trying to assess the cost of this. But the cost is important but there are other considerations as well. Cost is not the only issue. But in the long run a rising tide of illegal immigration to this country is very expensive for us, very expensive indeed. So I don’t think anybody should think that what we’re proposing in relation to Nauru and all the other arrangements we’re making are going to be vastly more costly than if we had simply accepted the people in here because accepting them in is quite expensive too. But that is not the dominant consideration. The dominant consideration is to regain control of the integrity of our borders and to make it plain that this country is not a country of easy destination for people smuggling and for illegal immigration.
JOURNALIST:
How does Nauru benefit from this arrangement?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it was an act of involvement by Nauru in solving a problem involving the area. I mean I’m very grateful, very grateful indeed.
JOURNALIST:
How significant is it that it’s a Pacific solution rather than an Asian solution?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it just indicates that there’s a good feeling and there’s a comity amongst the nations of the Pacific and that we have good relations with those countries. But look, I haven’t sort of sat and tried to weigh it on the scale. It just is a very satisfactory outcome and I’m very pleased with the countries of the Pacific. I thank New Zealand, I thank Nauru, and I thank Papua New Guinea.
JOURNALIST:
How do you think the world views our handling of the situation?
PRIME MINISTER:
People who think will understand why we’ve done it and certainly those people who think about will support what we’ve done.
JOURNALIST:
There are suggestions that one of the asylum seekers on board the Tampa has died…..
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven’t heard anything about that. I haven’t heard anything to that effect.
JOURNALIST:
Regarding the enhanced patrol, you said five aircraft….
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I said five vessels and 4 P3 Orion aircraft.
JOURNALIST:
Can you say which …..?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I'll have to check on that but….
JOURNALIST:
Do we know which, obviously it involves Indonesia, do you know….
PRIME MINISTER:
When you say involves Indonesia, I didn’t say that.
JOURNALIST:
Well it’s between Indonesia and…
PRIME MINISTER:
No it’s in international waters between the Indonesian archipelago and Australia. The surveillance will take place in international waters, the international waters that lie between the Indonesian archipelago and Australia. Indonesia has been informed. Indonesia was informed on Friday. Indonesia thanks us for informing them and they have offered refuelling facilities and home porting facilities.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, I’m sorry, I don’t know yet. You’d have to ask the defence authorities that. I don’t carry that around in my head I’m sorry.
JOURNALIST:
The US State Department says the increase in [inaudible] illegal asylum seekers coming from Indonesia is a demonstration….make it easy for terrorists to infiltrate the region. Is there any information to suggest that there maybe…..?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven’t seen that statement but obviously there is a potential when you have an increased flow of illegal immigrants. Of course there is a potential. Mr Ruddock has talked about that on numerous occasions. I mean there are a whole host of reasons relating to that and other reasons why we have to use every means at our disposal consistent with the law and consistent with the decency of Australia as a humane nation to slow and hopefully stop the flow of illegal immigrants now. What we have done we hope and we believe will have a deterrent effect, I can’t guarantee or promise that it is going to stop it altogether. I am not doing that. I want to make that very clear but what I am saying is that we have sent a very strong signal in relation to the Tampa and by the increased surveillance and I hope that will act as a very powerful deterrent. But it is a very difficult issue and we do need a Memorandum of Understanding with Indonesia. We have been endeavouring to negotiate that now for months. Any suggestion that we haven’t been trying to do that is wrong. There are three ministers going to Jakarta next week. I raised the matter when I was in Jakarta with senior ministers of the Indonesian government. Our proposal was that we will fully fund construction of a detention centre in Indonesia through the International Organisation of Migration. That remains our position. So we are doing all we can but we need the cooperation of other countries.
JOURNALIST::
What exactly are our vessels going to do when they come across boatpeople?
PRIME MINISTER::
I have been asked that question on a number of occasions. They will act both lawfully and decently but as to the rest of it, I am not going to go into that.
JOURNALIST:
Are you reviewing policies for refugees?
PRIME MINISTER:
No we are not reviewing our longstanding willingness to take refugees. We continue to be a country that will shoulder our share of the refugee burden. We are the second most generous country in the world after Canada on a per capita basis and that will remain. This incident will not diminish our willingness to take refugees properly assessed in the normal way by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees. That is what we are endeavouring to do. We are endeavouring to establish the integrity of the international refugee assessment process, that’s what we want. That will happen in relation to these people. If they are taken to those third countries they will be assessed out of Australia. Those judged to be refugees will then be treated in accordance with the proper refugee process. Now that is what we want. And if these people some of them can establish a refugee entitlement well they have a right like other refugees to be given an opportunity of settling in another country and Australia will continue to take her share. But what is happening with illegal migration is undermining the whole process of refugee assessment and that is what we are fighting to restore, the integrity of the process. We are not trying to stop countries taking refugees, we want countries to take refugees, we want to take refugees but we are not going to accept people who haven’t established a refugee claim before they come to this country.
Thank you.
[ends]
Guest
Posts: n/a
As the money of the world slowly gets channelled towards a privelidged minority we will see the illegal immigrant problem continue to escalate. Lets face it they are people who have been victim of some sort of bastardised form of capitalism (or whatever) and are trying to find a better deal for themselves and are forced to do it illegally (yep that's not right and I used to happily fly an aeroplane that caught the law breakers). The only thing those that fled or were pushed to leave Australia in 89 to all parts of the world from Abeles and Hawke did different was that they obtained a Visa and were legal migrants (same concept, different method and scale). I know I am going to draw some flak over my opinion but lets face it it aint the weather in Afghanistan or Indonesia that put them off living there it was their hopeless social situation (employment icluded) that drove them away. What can we do about it? Build a wall of steel? Well in Europe here (nope I'm not an 89er)I see lots of walls of stone that stand legacy to past civilisations. Maybe the worlds wealth needs to be distributed in a more even handed fashion (nope not a socialist either). I don't have the answer but if we can put our xenophobic chest beating aside and debate the real issues here in an open minded fashion. 
[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Pferdsheise ]
[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Pferdsheise ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Here we go again, we have a different opinion to you, so we must be xenophobic......
Australia takes a large number of migrants every year from all sorts of Countries, all sorts of Cultures, religions, creeds, races etc and also a large number of genuine refugees.
The people being discussed here on several threads are ILLEGALS, it doesn't matter if they have black, white, brown, yellow or any other colour skin, if they are Moslem, Christian, Hindu or any other religion, it doesn't matter whether or not they are homosexual, handicapped, male or female, or anyhing else. THEY ARE ILLEGALS, NOT GENUINE REFUGEES, AND ARE NOT WELCOME........
Australia takes a large number of migrants every year from all sorts of Countries, all sorts of Cultures, religions, creeds, races etc and also a large number of genuine refugees.
The people being discussed here on several threads are ILLEGALS, it doesn't matter if they have black, white, brown, yellow or any other colour skin, if they are Moslem, Christian, Hindu or any other religion, it doesn't matter whether or not they are homosexual, handicapped, male or female, or anyhing else. THEY ARE ILLEGALS, NOT GENUINE REFUGEES, AND ARE NOT WELCOME........