WX Briefing and Flight Plan/Sartime submission
There is another side to this I suggest:
The provision of a 'basic' briefing and weather service on a free to the user basis is justified if it is likely to contribute to flight safety and avoid any accidents etc. Especially to VFR operations.
Sure there is a responsibility on the pilot to obtain the appropriate information, but if the system or the culture does not provide easy access or encourage its use then it must also be to blame if anything happens.
If a pilot goes missing with no plan and having not obtained weather etc., then who foots the bill for the search... yes you guessed it YOU and ME, the tax payer. I would much rather my taxes (as a community service obligation) go towards establishing a user friendly system that encourages its use than have to pay out ten times the amount for a search!
One decent search avoided per annum would pay for the service and give change. Cheap insurance from the Governments point of view I suggest.
The provision of a 'basic' briefing and weather service on a free to the user basis is justified if it is likely to contribute to flight safety and avoid any accidents etc. Especially to VFR operations.
Sure there is a responsibility on the pilot to obtain the appropriate information, but if the system or the culture does not provide easy access or encourage its use then it must also be to blame if anything happens.
If a pilot goes missing with no plan and having not obtained weather etc., then who foots the bill for the search... yes you guessed it YOU and ME, the tax payer. I would much rather my taxes (as a community service obligation) go towards establishing a user friendly system that encourages its use than have to pay out ten times the amount for a search!
One decent search avoided per annum would pay for the service and give change. Cheap insurance from the Governments point of view I suggest.
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... "If I am using a cheap method of accessing the briefing office, why should I directly or indirectly subsidise someone else who elects to use the more expensive access method?"
Because...
1) That person may be in the country and unable to access by any cheap method
2) That person may have already got data the cheap way, and seeks to be compliant by obtaining the latest info after a long drive from home office to the airport
3) Persons (1) and (2) may be less likely to kill you with the benefit of the information.
We are all in it together girls and boys.
Because...
1) That person may be in the country and unable to access by any cheap method
2) That person may have already got data the cheap way, and seeks to be compliant by obtaining the latest info after a long drive from home office to the airport
3) Persons (1) and (2) may be less likely to kill you with the benefit of the information.
We are all in it together girls and boys.
From - http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr220801.pdf
Mr Martin Ferguson asked the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, upon notice, on 6 February 2001:
(1) With respect to Airservices Australia’s new charging regime for pilot briefing services, what is the total cost to a pilot to access the briefing services under the respective access options.
(2) Is the information only accessible if the relevant fees are paid.
(3) Is the information necessary for safe flight and which parts of the service are mandatory for a pilot.
(4) Are there any systems in place to monitor how many pilots are choosing to not access the services due to either cost or principle.
(5) Is he able to say whether pilots are charged for this information and service in other countries, including the USA, Canada, UK, France, South Africa, Greece, Germany, Italy, Indonesia, Singapore.
(6) Is he also able to say whether pilots with internet access can obtain the relevant Australian information without cost from US internet sites.
Mr Anderson—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:
I am advised by Airservices Australia that:
(1) Current costs for the respective access options for each of the pilot briefing services are tabulated below:
Access Option Implemented Pilot Costs
Airservices Internet Pilot Briefing – via ISP Access: Cost of ISP connection
Airservices NAIPS Pilot Briefing via Direct Dial – In Access: Local Call
Airservices Pilot Briefing Voice Submit Plan – via Airservices/ Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing Fax Submit Plan – via Airservices/ Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing Check/Change Plan – via Airservices/ Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing Fax Back (AVFAX) – via Airservices / Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing IVR (DECTALK) – via Airservices / Telstra PhoneAway $0.50
Total cost to pilots will depend on which combination of the above services is used. Many pilots use Internet pilot briefing, however the following are alternative examples using the Airservices/Telstra PhoneAway system.
Example A is for a visual flight rules (VFR) pilot accessing pilot briefing information via AVFAX, submitting a SARTIME flight notification by facsimile and checking with the briefing office that it has been received in a legible state. Example B is for an instrument flight rules (IFR) pilot accessing pilot briefing information by facsimile and activating a stored flight notification.
Example Using access options (as above): Total Cost @ 50c per item A 6 – AV FAX 4 – FAX
5 – CHECK $1.50
B 6 – AV FAX
3 – Voice $1.00
(2) No. When the information is accessed via options 1 & 2 above then it is available free of Airservices charges – pilots are still required to pay for their own connection costs. Pilots having unusual access difficulties can contact the Airservices’ helpdesk free of charge for connection with the briefing office to gain access to the information. Further, in urgent situations, pilots can still access information by radio for which there is no charge.
(3) Yes, weather forecasts and Notices to Airmen (NOTAM) information are necessary for safe flight, and for certain mandatory operations. Aeronautical information Publication (AIP) ENR 1.10,
1.1 refers:
"Before beginning a flight, a pilot in command must study all available information appropriate to the intended operation and, in the cases of flights away from the vicinity of an aerodrome and all Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flights, must make a careful study of:
(a) current weather reports and forecasts for the route to be flown and the aerodromes to be used;
(b) the airways facilities available on the route to be flown and the condition of those facilities;
(c) the condition of aerodromes to be used and their suitability for the aircraft to be used;
(d) the Air Traffic Control rules and procedures appertaining to the particular flight; and
(e) all Head Office and Flight Information Region (FIR) NOTAM applicable to the en route phase of flight, and location-specific NOTAM for aerodromes.
The pilot must then plan the flight in relation to the information obtained."
(4) Airservices continues to monitor changes in user access preference since electronic briefing services became available early last year. The data shows that the total number of clients accessing pilot briefing by all means, and the number of pilots using electronic mechanisms, both increased during last year. This data together with the Phone-A-way card sales indicates that pilots are not opting out of the briefing systems but are, in fact, becoming more discerning about how they access pre-flight information. The data also indicates that the new technology is being well accepted and adopted by the industry.
(5) Airservices’ research has revealed that pilot briefing services are provided without charge in the United States and Canada. It would also appear that there are no specific charges levied for pilot briefing services in the United States, Canada, Japan, South Africa, or Europe.
The extent to which the "free of charge" service applies is not clear without a detailed understanding of the elements of that pricing structure. This ensures a comparison of like with like. The United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for example, is funded by appropriation and taxes and does not charge user fees. It is therefore inappropriate to compare it with self-funding organisations operating under the ‘user pays" principle.
Further, research has been unable to rule out other mechanisms that might be in place in these countries to fund pilot briefing services, eg whether or not pilot briefing services are funded from general revenue, through en-route charges (and hence cross-subsidisation) or through some other form of revenue collection such as a general charge to the pilot for a range of related services.
Charges for pilot briefing services are recovered through enroute charges in Europe for IFR operations. Eurocontrol levies charges for the en-route phase of flight and distributes the revenue to the different member States. The rate for the charges is negotiated on an annual basis. In the case of Spain for example, this includes the costs for the Aeronautical Information Services and costs for pre-flight briefings.
A similar situation exists in Japan where pilots are not charged a specific fee to obtain pre-flight briefing services, nor are they charged to submit a flight plan into the ATC system. However, pilots are charged user fees for aerodrome and air navigation facilities that are classified as being for public use.
In the United Kingdom, NOTAMs (Notices to Airmen) are available without charge, but pilot access to weather information attracts a specific fee from the UK Meteorology Office ("DialMet").
Airservices does not have any information on briefing service charges in either Singapore or Indonesia.
(6) Airservices cannot be certain whether pilots with Internet access can obtain Australian information without cost from US Internet sites. However, pilots from Australia, the USA or anywhere else in the world can register and then obtain information without cost (other than connection (ISP) costs) directly from the Airservices Australia Internet World Wide Web Pilot Briefing site or via linked services from various pilot associations (eg AOPA). Airservices’ pilot
briefing is accessible at - http://www.airservices.gov.au/brief/.
Mr Martin Ferguson asked the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, upon notice, on 6 February 2001:
(1) With respect to Airservices Australia’s new charging regime for pilot briefing services, what is the total cost to a pilot to access the briefing services under the respective access options.
(2) Is the information only accessible if the relevant fees are paid.
(3) Is the information necessary for safe flight and which parts of the service are mandatory for a pilot.
(4) Are there any systems in place to monitor how many pilots are choosing to not access the services due to either cost or principle.
(5) Is he able to say whether pilots are charged for this information and service in other countries, including the USA, Canada, UK, France, South Africa, Greece, Germany, Italy, Indonesia, Singapore.
(6) Is he also able to say whether pilots with internet access can obtain the relevant Australian information without cost from US internet sites.
Mr Anderson—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:
I am advised by Airservices Australia that:
(1) Current costs for the respective access options for each of the pilot briefing services are tabulated below:
Access Option Implemented Pilot Costs
Airservices Internet Pilot Briefing – via ISP Access: Cost of ISP connection
Airservices NAIPS Pilot Briefing via Direct Dial – In Access: Local Call
Airservices Pilot Briefing Voice Submit Plan – via Airservices/ Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing Fax Submit Plan – via Airservices/ Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing Check/Change Plan – via Airservices/ Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing Fax Back (AVFAX) – via Airservices / Telstra PhoneAway: $0.50
Airservices Pilot Briefing IVR (DECTALK) – via Airservices / Telstra PhoneAway $0.50
Total cost to pilots will depend on which combination of the above services is used. Many pilots use Internet pilot briefing, however the following are alternative examples using the Airservices/Telstra PhoneAway system.
Example A is for a visual flight rules (VFR) pilot accessing pilot briefing information via AVFAX, submitting a SARTIME flight notification by facsimile and checking with the briefing office that it has been received in a legible state. Example B is for an instrument flight rules (IFR) pilot accessing pilot briefing information by facsimile and activating a stored flight notification.
Example Using access options (as above): Total Cost @ 50c per item A 6 – AV FAX 4 – FAX
5 – CHECK $1.50
B 6 – AV FAX
3 – Voice $1.00
(2) No. When the information is accessed via options 1 & 2 above then it is available free of Airservices charges – pilots are still required to pay for their own connection costs. Pilots having unusual access difficulties can contact the Airservices’ helpdesk free of charge for connection with the briefing office to gain access to the information. Further, in urgent situations, pilots can still access information by radio for which there is no charge.
(3) Yes, weather forecasts and Notices to Airmen (NOTAM) information are necessary for safe flight, and for certain mandatory operations. Aeronautical information Publication (AIP) ENR 1.10,
1.1 refers:
"Before beginning a flight, a pilot in command must study all available information appropriate to the intended operation and, in the cases of flights away from the vicinity of an aerodrome and all Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flights, must make a careful study of:
(a) current weather reports and forecasts for the route to be flown and the aerodromes to be used;
(b) the airways facilities available on the route to be flown and the condition of those facilities;
(c) the condition of aerodromes to be used and their suitability for the aircraft to be used;
(d) the Air Traffic Control rules and procedures appertaining to the particular flight; and
(e) all Head Office and Flight Information Region (FIR) NOTAM applicable to the en route phase of flight, and location-specific NOTAM for aerodromes.
The pilot must then plan the flight in relation to the information obtained."
(4) Airservices continues to monitor changes in user access preference since electronic briefing services became available early last year. The data shows that the total number of clients accessing pilot briefing by all means, and the number of pilots using electronic mechanisms, both increased during last year. This data together with the Phone-A-way card sales indicates that pilots are not opting out of the briefing systems but are, in fact, becoming more discerning about how they access pre-flight information. The data also indicates that the new technology is being well accepted and adopted by the industry.
(5) Airservices’ research has revealed that pilot briefing services are provided without charge in the United States and Canada. It would also appear that there are no specific charges levied for pilot briefing services in the United States, Canada, Japan, South Africa, or Europe.
The extent to which the "free of charge" service applies is not clear without a detailed understanding of the elements of that pricing structure. This ensures a comparison of like with like. The United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for example, is funded by appropriation and taxes and does not charge user fees. It is therefore inappropriate to compare it with self-funding organisations operating under the ‘user pays" principle.
Further, research has been unable to rule out other mechanisms that might be in place in these countries to fund pilot briefing services, eg whether or not pilot briefing services are funded from general revenue, through en-route charges (and hence cross-subsidisation) or through some other form of revenue collection such as a general charge to the pilot for a range of related services.
Charges for pilot briefing services are recovered through enroute charges in Europe for IFR operations. Eurocontrol levies charges for the en-route phase of flight and distributes the revenue to the different member States. The rate for the charges is negotiated on an annual basis. In the case of Spain for example, this includes the costs for the Aeronautical Information Services and costs for pre-flight briefings.
A similar situation exists in Japan where pilots are not charged a specific fee to obtain pre-flight briefing services, nor are they charged to submit a flight plan into the ATC system. However, pilots are charged user fees for aerodrome and air navigation facilities that are classified as being for public use.
In the United Kingdom, NOTAMs (Notices to Airmen) are available without charge, but pilot access to weather information attracts a specific fee from the UK Meteorology Office ("DialMet").
Airservices does not have any information on briefing service charges in either Singapore or Indonesia.
(6) Airservices cannot be certain whether pilots with Internet access can obtain Australian information without cost from US Internet sites. However, pilots from Australia, the USA or anywhere else in the world can register and then obtain information without cost (other than connection (ISP) costs) directly from the Airservices Australia Internet World Wide Web Pilot Briefing site or via linked services from various pilot associations (eg AOPA). Airservices’ pilot
briefing is accessible at - http://www.airservices.gov.au/brief/.
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The only thing that this shows is how much effort airservices are putting into covering up all the potential problems they have created because they dont want to deal with GA and other segments of the industry that dont pay. The people that write these fairy tales should get an award and the minister and his staff should have their head read for believing it!
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Just to ad insult to injury, I received in the mail the other day notice that the use of controlled airspace will attract a further airservices charge which equates to approx. 30 cents per tonne per 100 nautical miles to help recoup the cost of supplying the weather briefing to airservices. Ah to have the old system back where everybody paid and thus the costs where carried as a whole..The user pay pundits will of course disagree with this, but as an aircraft owner, I would prefer the old system.. If I wanted to use or not to use the system it was up to me (and for that matter, everybody else). Controlled airspace, weather forecasts, telephone systems, roads, parks etc., where paid up public utilities, and as such the maintenience, upgrading and continuation of these assets should remain in the public domain..not to be used for political advantage because of the lack of calibre of the politician we are forced to vote for and subsidise the costs of poor government in this country.
I personally wrote to the Minister over this issue on a number of occasions, spoke with his staff, had many a heated discussion with the Airservices "managers" (and I use the word loosely) in charge of the introduction of the user pays system
All to no avail.
The publically stated aim of these charges is to recover communications costs.
I asked why we couldn't use our own telephone to access the briefing office and dectalk - ie we pay the communications costs,.. Oh you can't do that!!
Airservices has been hijacked by people with profit motives, not public safety as their first priority.
The sooner it is "re focused' the better.
Woomera - this post is a turd free zone!
All to no avail.
The publically stated aim of these charges is to recover communications costs.
I asked why we couldn't use our own telephone to access the briefing office and dectalk - ie we pay the communications costs,.. Oh you can't do that!!
Airservices has been hijacked by people with profit motives, not public safety as their first priority.
The sooner it is "re focused' the better.
Woomera - this post is a turd free zone!
