Final Words
Thread Starter
Final Words
I've had enough of this place.
I'm sick of people like Boeing Belly, Flat Side Up and the rest of their one eyed bigoted mates.
I came to Australia from NZ because I was recruited by an Aussie company because there were no Australians available with the required qualifications.
I have my current job for the same reasons.
I am sick and tired of being lumped into the whole Dole Bludging Kiwi stereotype when I personally have better work ethics than many Australians I have worked with over here.
I have the deepest sympathy for those who lost their jobs with Ansett but I don't work for Air New Zealand, I have never worked for Air New Zealand, I never want to work for Air New Zealand - So why the hell am I to blame for what happened?
For those with similar attitudes to Boeing Belly and Flat Side Up who lost jobs, well all I can say is Ha Farkin Ha, you probably deserved it.
On that note, it's good night from me, and it's good night from him.
I'm sick of people like Boeing Belly, Flat Side Up and the rest of their one eyed bigoted mates.
I came to Australia from NZ because I was recruited by an Aussie company because there were no Australians available with the required qualifications.
I have my current job for the same reasons.
I am sick and tired of being lumped into the whole Dole Bludging Kiwi stereotype when I personally have better work ethics than many Australians I have worked with over here.
I have the deepest sympathy for those who lost their jobs with Ansett but I don't work for Air New Zealand, I have never worked for Air New Zealand, I never want to work for Air New Zealand - So why the hell am I to blame for what happened?
For those with similar attitudes to Boeing Belly and Flat Side Up who lost jobs, well all I can say is Ha Farkin Ha, you probably deserved it.
On that note, it's good night from me, and it's good night from him.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
You mean you're going back to New Zealand??? 
No? - I didn't think so. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
No? - I didn't think so. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
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Kiwiconehead,
Thanks for the kind words. Don't be disappointed that I did not lose my job with AN because I didn't have one. But I have many friends who did. It is not only in recent times in the airline industry but in many areas over very many years that I have been acutely aware of the numerous rorts perpetrated on the Australian taxpayer by kiwis. At last there is an ever increasing awareness of that and therefore a good chance that things will be rectified. The sooner the better.
Take as many as you can back with you. Promise!
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]</p>
Thanks for the kind words. Don't be disappointed that I did not lose my job with AN because I didn't have one. But I have many friends who did. It is not only in recent times in the airline industry but in many areas over very many years that I have been acutely aware of the numerous rorts perpetrated on the Australian taxpayer by kiwis. At last there is an ever increasing awareness of that and therefore a good chance that things will be rectified. The sooner the better.
Take as many as you can back with you. Promise!
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]</p>
Just Binos
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Kiwiconehead;
I sympathise. Regardless of Ansett's problems or where they originated, I find it rather sad that so many people resort to personal insults against our trans-Tasman neighbours, as thought it's the fault of each one of them individually. All I can say is to reinforce what you already know, which is that not all Aussies feel that way, and though it's not up to me to apologise for them, I often feel ashamed of the unnecessary attacks that go on in here.
I was actually thinking of starting a thread inviting opinions on why Australians in general are such an antagonistic, ultra-defensive lot, and a good proportion of those in aviation even more so if Dunnunda is any indication, but I decided I couldn't cope with all the flaming I would receive in return. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Ironically enough, I find myself occasionally launching into mild abuse against those who are abusive, which leaves me open to all sorts of charges beginning with gross hypocrisy. I think we should probably both ignore them for the good of our health.
Stick around. You are the only one to lose by leaving.
I sympathise. Regardless of Ansett's problems or where they originated, I find it rather sad that so many people resort to personal insults against our trans-Tasman neighbours, as thought it's the fault of each one of them individually. All I can say is to reinforce what you already know, which is that not all Aussies feel that way, and though it's not up to me to apologise for them, I often feel ashamed of the unnecessary attacks that go on in here.
I was actually thinking of starting a thread inviting opinions on why Australians in general are such an antagonistic, ultra-defensive lot, and a good proportion of those in aviation even more so if Dunnunda is any indication, but I decided I couldn't cope with all the flaming I would receive in return. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Ironically enough, I find myself occasionally launching into mild abuse against those who are abusive, which leaves me open to all sorts of charges beginning with gross hypocrisy. I think we should probably both ignore them for the good of our health.
Stick around. You are the only one to lose by leaving.
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Binoculars,
Not a bad idea. Many forget that thousands of kiwis have lost heaps in high profile Aussie companies just recently because of incompetent management, but not many want to talk about that. HIH, Pasminco, Harris Scarfe, OneTel etc. etc. Need I go on.
Now we find Kaptin M who specialised in rubbishing the Ansett scabs joining the herd with FSU and Boeing Belly. You guys should read a book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. Written in 1841 but still available and I'm sure you'll be able to identify with it.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Skol ]</p>
Not a bad idea. Many forget that thousands of kiwis have lost heaps in high profile Aussie companies just recently because of incompetent management, but not many want to talk about that. HIH, Pasminco, Harris Scarfe, OneTel etc. etc. Need I go on.
Now we find Kaptin M who specialised in rubbishing the Ansett scabs joining the herd with FSU and Boeing Belly. You guys should read a book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. Written in 1841 but still available and I'm sure you'll be able to identify with it.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Skol ]</p>
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Binoculars:
"I was actually thinking of starting a thread inviting opinions on why Australians in general are such an antagonistic, ultra-defensive lot, and a good proportion of those in aviation even more so if Dunnunda is any indication, but I decided I couldn't cope with all the flaming I would receive in return."
Yep had the same thought myself, but refrained for the same reasons. Believe me too, KiwiconeHead, Kiwis are not unique in their vilification by, what appears to be, the majority of Aussies. I have many good friends in the Oz aviation scene, who have helped me a great deal. They are in the minority though.
"I was actually thinking of starting a thread inviting opinions on why Australians in general are such an antagonistic, ultra-defensive lot, and a good proportion of those in aviation even more so if Dunnunda is any indication, but I decided I couldn't cope with all the flaming I would receive in return."
Yep had the same thought myself, but refrained for the same reasons. Believe me too, KiwiconeHead, Kiwis are not unique in their vilification by, what appears to be, the majority of Aussies. I have many good friends in the Oz aviation scene, who have helped me a great deal. They are in the minority though.
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Kiwiconehead, Don't let a few loud mouths on this board drive you away as you have had some good posts in the past. I too am a Kiwi that lives in Australia I keep my nose clean and get on with my job, I also was invited here. I find that Australians are generally Intelligent and fair people with the exception of a few, as you will find in any society, such as those who post on this board with an anti Kiwi flair. Ignore them as they realy are a minority though they would like to believe otherwise. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Kiwiconehead,
Curious to know what the qualifications are that you came over with "because there were no Australians available with the required qualifications" and for you current job.
'Aveagoodweekend.
Edited below to clarify from Kiwiconehead post. CJ.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Kiwiconehead post:
I came to Australia from NZ because I was recruited by an Aussie company because there were no Australians available with the required qualifications.
I have my current job for the same reasons.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: CockpitJunkie ]</p>
Curious to know what the qualifications are that you came over with "because there were no Australians available with the required qualifications" and for you current job.
'Aveagoodweekend.
Edited below to clarify from Kiwiconehead post. CJ.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Kiwiconehead post:
I came to Australia from NZ because I was recruited by an Aussie company because there were no Australians available with the required qualifications.
I have my current job for the same reasons.
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: CockpitJunkie ]</p>
Thread Starter
CockpitJunkie - Quals were E,I & R ratings Bae146 and Dash 8. Not many Aussies had 3 categories, most E&I. Even fewer had those combination of types, and still don't.
I will return - but in another form.
I will return - but in another form.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Binos and Gwyn, cutting down "tall poppies", and "taking the p!ss" out of people is an Australian national pre-occupation (esp. when we get a good bite, as we have, today!) - sometimes to our detriment.
Similarly, good-naturedly accepting the occasional jibe, and knowing how to avoid further baitings is something we have grown up with.
For the Kiwis who appear to be upset by some of my comments, they are not meant vindictively, however I was candid when I noted that some N.Z'ers appear to suffer from the "little man syndrome", and are on the defensive for reasons unknown to us Aussies.
Certainly there ARE cultural differences, but they are few, and indiscernable to non-Kiwis and Aussies.
So hang around KCH, Pharknose, Horse, nzer and the rest of you - just keep doing what you've been doing, giving back what you're given from time to time. But let's try to keep the threads on track, otherwise Woomera gets a little p!ssed!
No personal offence meant!
It's threads such as these that Capt PPRuNe has difficulty coming to grips with, as he thinks we really mean all that sh!t we've slung at each other. Makes you glad you're not a Pom, doesn't it!
Similarly, good-naturedly accepting the occasional jibe, and knowing how to avoid further baitings is something we have grown up with.
For the Kiwis who appear to be upset by some of my comments, they are not meant vindictively, however I was candid when I noted that some N.Z'ers appear to suffer from the "little man syndrome", and are on the defensive for reasons unknown to us Aussies.
Certainly there ARE cultural differences, but they are few, and indiscernable to non-Kiwis and Aussies.
So hang around KCH, Pharknose, Horse, nzer and the rest of you - just keep doing what you've been doing, giving back what you're given from time to time. But let's try to keep the threads on track, otherwise Woomera gets a little p!ssed!
No personal offence meant!
It's threads such as these that Capt PPRuNe has difficulty coming to grips with, as he thinks we really mean all that sh!t we've slung at each other. Makes you glad you're not a Pom, doesn't it!
Just Binos
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The little man syndrome, Kaptin? NZ is perhaps the only country in the world we can sling that accusation at because they're the only ones we can feel bigger than and superior to, rightly or wrongly. Well, I suppose Tonga and Fiji....
It all probably boils down to whether or not you agree with Steve Waugh's view on sledging or whether you were brought up with a sense of sport for sports sake involving fair play.
I like to think I'm in the latter category. But I'm more than prepared to discuss it over a beer at the Ozbash. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
It all probably boils down to whether or not you agree with Steve Waugh's view on sledging or whether you were brought up with a sense of sport for sports sake involving fair play.
I like to think I'm in the latter category. But I'm more than prepared to discuss it over a beer at the Ozbash. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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A fact known to only a few is that I am half Kiwi on my mother's side of the family. I've always been able to see both sides and, while I'm more of an Aussie than anything else, I can tell you that there are many Kiwis who are yet to come to grips with the concept espoused by KM and well known to all Aussies.
Call it "sledging", or "taking a rise" or "baiting", or anything else you want. But you need to understand that, for folks who don't understand what's going on, it is almost always going to be taken as a slur. We Aussies don't enjoy slurs cast on us, so why should anyone else, from anywhere else?
I will be at Ozbash. I hope to see all of you there, including as many of our trans-Tasman mates, wherever they may be. I'll have a G+T with you Binos, but you can shout the first one for missing the do in Cairns!
Call it "sledging", or "taking a rise" or "baiting", or anything else you want. But you need to understand that, for folks who don't understand what's going on, it is almost always going to be taken as a slur. We Aussies don't enjoy slurs cast on us, so why should anyone else, from anywhere else?
I will be at Ozbash. I hope to see all of you there, including as many of our trans-Tasman mates, wherever they may be. I'll have a G+T with you Binos, but you can shout the first one for missing the do in Cairns!
Just Binos
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Sheesh, Oz, that's 47 drinks I'm up for before I get one back. I'll have to leave early on the second day!
Agree with you btw re the "sledging". It's all very well to say "aww, it wasn't personal", when if we got the same treatment we'd be screaming. I for one don't accept Kaptin's position that we can take it as well as we dish it out. We dish it out when we are winning, but during the 80's, to continue the cricket analogy, we didn't take it too well when getting unmercifully flogged by the West Indies.
Lots of fertile discussion for the OzBash here, I'm pleased to say, and let me repeat OzEx's welcome to all our Kiwi neighbours to join us!
Agree with you btw re the "sledging". It's all very well to say "aww, it wasn't personal", when if we got the same treatment we'd be screaming. I for one don't accept Kaptin's position that we can take it as well as we dish it out. We dish it out when we are winning, but during the 80's, to continue the cricket analogy, we didn't take it too well when getting unmercifully flogged by the West Indies.
Lots of fertile discussion for the OzBash here, I'm pleased to say, and let me repeat OzEx's welcome to all our Kiwi neighbours to join us!
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You guys reckon you cop it hard - maybe you want to try being a Tasmanian - Now those poor b_uggers may have something to whine about when it comes to sledging. Not to mention Queenslanders - friggin hillbillies the lot of em. And Victorians - bunch of w_ankers who can't play footy to save emselves. West Aussies well they're right up their with the Queenslanders sleeping with their sisters and playing the banjo. NT'ers - well what can one say about them cept maybe they're all a stubby short of a 6 pack. NSW'ers - All gay, ACT - All gay as well, SA'ers - where's that again ?
The point is - take it on the chin, have a laugh and get on with it. It's Aussie subculture to take the mickey out of anyone or anything that isn't part of the local tribe. Some of us take it all a bit far, but for the most part it really is only light hearted back slapping.
The point is - take it on the chin, have a laugh and get on with it. It's Aussie subculture to take the mickey out of anyone or anything that isn't part of the local tribe. Some of us take it all a bit far, but for the most part it really is only light hearted back slapping.
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Yeah sure I've heard the "national past time" excuse before and as I stated before it is a loud mouth minority that uses across the board statements like We are sick of NZ they are a very poor cousin and have done nothing but take from our country. GET OUT AND STAY OUT! that makes you all look so stupid. I think that some of you guys should go and kick the cat, take a walk, have a cold shower or maybe just count to 10 before replying to some of these threads. A good old saying in aviation circles never crap on anyone on your way up because you may be surprised who will return the favour on your way down.
Evertonian
I think its a loss to this forum if anyone goes. There is certainly no excuse for personal abuse here, but sadly it exists.
The Aussie sense of humour depended largely upon personal derision, & I have to agree with Kaptin M & his comments. We used to expect the same derision & comments back when dishing it out. Perhaps because the demographic of Australia has changed & new cultures are introduced, the sledging has also changed from tongue in cheek to malice.
I can only feel sorry for those that have taken it too personally & I agree, some of it has been hard to justify. Rest assured, we know that there are lots of Kiwi dole bludgers, but more Aussie ones than kiwis. What isn't clear is the amount of honest working kiwis in Oz & sadly, its always the lowest common denominator that gets the press.
This forum needs people like kiwiconehead to provide alternative arguments and points of view, without them, it becomes a back slapping forum where everyone agrees with each other, and how sad would that be? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
The Aussie sense of humour depended largely upon personal derision, & I have to agree with Kaptin M & his comments. We used to expect the same derision & comments back when dishing it out. Perhaps because the demographic of Australia has changed & new cultures are introduced, the sledging has also changed from tongue in cheek to malice.
I can only feel sorry for those that have taken it too personally & I agree, some of it has been hard to justify. Rest assured, we know that there are lots of Kiwi dole bludgers, but more Aussie ones than kiwis. What isn't clear is the amount of honest working kiwis in Oz & sadly, its always the lowest common denominator that gets the press.
This forum needs people like kiwiconehead to provide alternative arguments and points of view, without them, it becomes a back slapping forum where everyone agrees with each other, and how sad would that be? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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This is the last, well almost the last, time ...etc etc per Blackadder - Kap M has aked myeslf and several other named people to 'hang around" as it was all infun, good hearted ribbing etc, don't let the Europeans misunderstand the current mudslinging etc - well Kap, if I and others take offence because of "small man syndrome", or for ANY OTHER REASON - if you recognise that offence is given and taken, it is only polite to modify your behaviour. A spoon of sugar will get you further than a bottle of vinegar. Re "cultural differences" - well, an example - not too contraversial I trust - I was operating from AKL to SYD in the recent past, and my fellow aviator was going to make some crack about the cricket - a game I do not follow and in which as such I have no interest I hasten to add!! I said no - and for two reasons, which I explained - 1. It would not be polite. 2. It is enough that we know, and we know they know, and then just to say nothing.....a harder thing for some Aussie to do maybe - just one wee difference - believe, I am as put off by "loud mouth" kiwi's as by anyone else - But, as I say, the "no offence intended" line doesn't work once it is accepted - as I think you do - that offence has been taken - the "get out and don't come back" type of remark. I WILL "hang around" so long as posts/rumours/news about any topic are not followed by "bashing" - I refer as much to Aussies against Aussies as much as anything, eg, those folk who slam anything suggesting Virgin might be doing well etc - Shake?
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My God you Kiwis are thin-skinned! With the possible exception of my comments directed at the Board of AirNZ and your Government, I was only taking the p*ss out of you. Don't mention the Antarctic thread, I regretted that the moment I posted, but you guys just kept biting! Lighten up.