Air New Zealand to follow Ansett
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If only the board of Air NZ and the government had thought through the issues with a great deal more care several months ago, this situation of AIR NZ would not have arisen.
SQ was prepared to buy 80% of AN as late as June. Toomey got BIL to oppose this - why???
Allegations also of a bonus to Toomey of $300,000 are being reported on the media here in OZ this morning. This is gross corporate behaviour by any standard.
The government and people of NZ should be looking very closely at the assets of the directors, because they may be needed in the very near future if Air NZ does fold.
The share price is also reported as falling some 40% on opening.
I have a feeling that the latest bail out was based on a price of around 67 cents.
Where to now?
SQ was prepared to buy 80% of AN as late as June. Toomey got BIL to oppose this - why???
Allegations also of a bonus to Toomey of $300,000 are being reported on the media here in OZ this morning. This is gross corporate behaviour by any standard.
The government and people of NZ should be looking very closely at the assets of the directors, because they may be needed in the very near future if Air NZ does fold.
The share price is also reported as falling some 40% on opening.
I have a feeling that the latest bail out was based on a price of around 67 cents.
Where to now?
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I would like to take up where KYBO left off and say that NO country no matter the size can allow nationalistic fervour to stand in the way of commonsense. Unfortunately there seems to be a great lack of commonsense being shown in many areas:
1. NZ govt - bloody idiots
2. ANZ board - bloody idiots and criminally culpable
3. Australian govt - bloody idiots
4. some pprune contributors with their xenophobic axe to grind - the real bloody idiots......grow up.
This is a mess no doubt and the governments of both countries as well as the ANZ board are knee deep in manure but the average Kiwi bloke is a man who can be relied on and who holds the same values as we so cut the bullsh@t on this forum unless you are prepared to put your real name to your inflamatory post ...... and I figure most of you will not have the guts so perhaps you should question you own moral integrity.
I'll have a beer with the sheep shaggers any day.....except big mouths like kavu and any Australian equivalant.
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: fire wall ]
1. NZ govt - bloody idiots
2. ANZ board - bloody idiots and criminally culpable
3. Australian govt - bloody idiots
4. some pprune contributors with their xenophobic axe to grind - the real bloody idiots......grow up.
This is a mess no doubt and the governments of both countries as well as the ANZ board are knee deep in manure but the average Kiwi bloke is a man who can be relied on and who holds the same values as we so cut the bullsh@t on this forum unless you are prepared to put your real name to your inflamatory post ...... and I figure most of you will not have the guts so perhaps you should question you own moral integrity.
I'll have a beer with the sheep shaggers any day.....except big mouths like kavu and any Australian equivalant.
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: fire wall ]
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Just wake up some people, the animosity isn't towards the general NZ everyday public, but towards the select few individuals who it now appears have shafted AN, its employees, and many other australians for the benifit of themselves. Not for the benefit of anyone else in their own country, only theirs.
In aus, people like alan bond, skase etc. were seen as gods, much in the same light that NZ views the likes of Sir Selwyn. Perhaps shortly when this all washes up they will realise these people are capable of being criminals just as much as anyone else out there. I just hope justice is done.
To all my mates with Air NZ, sympathy to you and the blame is not at all directed towards yourselves. But to all my friends at AN and its associated companies, my deepest sympathies extend to you, your families, and I simply hope that the criminals who have defrauded the travelling public, and many innocent employees just trying to do their jobs on either side of the Tasman, are held accountable.
In aus, people like alan bond, skase etc. were seen as gods, much in the same light that NZ views the likes of Sir Selwyn. Perhaps shortly when this all washes up they will realise these people are capable of being criminals just as much as anyone else out there. I just hope justice is done.
To all my mates with Air NZ, sympathy to you and the blame is not at all directed towards yourselves. But to all my friends at AN and its associated companies, my deepest sympathies extend to you, your families, and I simply hope that the criminals who have defrauded the travelling public, and many innocent employees just trying to do their jobs on either side of the Tasman, are held accountable.
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In spite of the bile, this discussion is probably more civil than some of the AirNZ board meetings of late.
I do not detect a real Aussie vs Kiwi flavour only a bunch of people all equally upset by the trauma created by a small bunch of people in what appears to be a short space of time.
The rest of us have been kept in the dark in the typical modus operandi of many of the business leaders we try to look up to... "we'll let you know on a strictly need to know basis".
Many have touched on the causes and indeed they go back quite some years.Ansett has been a game of musical chairs for a decade.
Ultimately however this is a patient that has been treated by incompetent spin doctors. Those of any competence were not heeded because their diagnosis was not the one wanted by those in ultimate control of the board of AirNZ/BIL.
One only has to look at the AirNZ share price over the past 12 months to understand that AirNZ has had few supporters...on either side of the ditch.
My conclusion is that most are aware of where the responsibility lies. What remains is to prove it.
I do not detect a real Aussie vs Kiwi flavour only a bunch of people all equally upset by the trauma created by a small bunch of people in what appears to be a short space of time.
The rest of us have been kept in the dark in the typical modus operandi of many of the business leaders we try to look up to... "we'll let you know on a strictly need to know basis".
Many have touched on the causes and indeed they go back quite some years.Ansett has been a game of musical chairs for a decade.
Ultimately however this is a patient that has been treated by incompetent spin doctors. Those of any competence were not heeded because their diagnosis was not the one wanted by those in ultimate control of the board of AirNZ/BIL.
One only has to look at the AirNZ share price over the past 12 months to understand that AirNZ has had few supporters...on either side of the ditch.
My conclusion is that most are aware of where the responsibility lies. What remains is to prove it.
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It is my sincere hope that those rank and file employees at AirNZ do not lose jobs or have their career path interupted as has happend to many of us in Oz. I have no doubts that AN would be in operation right now and making profits for its parent companies if SQ had been allowed to buy News Corps. share. The AirNZ board made a flawed decicion to buy somthing that they could'nt afford. I'm now sick of the whole issue.I can't give a stuff about contributing further to this post-mortum: I'm going off to look for a job.
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I have to say I'm astounded that those management bonus's were paid out for working hard!! If thats the case, where are our cheques?
All this talk of AIRNZ stealing engines, fuel, etc. thats nothing but sh@t stirring.
They may have made some shocking decisions but they aren't going to do something that stupid & it'll come out as such in the resulting enquiries.
All this talk of AIRNZ stealing engines, fuel, etc. thats nothing but sh@t stirring.
They may have made some shocking decisions but they aren't going to do something that stupid & it'll come out as such in the resulting enquiries.
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BP: Like you I am also astounded at the bonus payouts.
In this case it was not just insensitive, it was disgusting.
In fact I cannot get my head around this whole culture of bonuses that has grown up and only seems to apply to the fat cats.
It begs the question of why they need an incentive to do the best possible job which they are being paid to do anyway.
In this case it was not just insensitive, it was disgusting.
In fact I cannot get my head around this whole culture of bonuses that has grown up and only seems to apply to the fat cats.
It begs the question of why they need an incentive to do the best possible job which they are being paid to do anyway.
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OK guys - let's close the personal slanging match and look at the truth.
Both Ansett and Air NZ employees and their respective families have been sorely let down by not only the board of Air NZ but also our respective governments for sticking their noses in (in the case of Oz) and Helen Clark for excelling in masterley inactivity and delayed procrastination!
(Didn't Nero just stand there playing the violin while Rome burnt around him?).
The board of Air NZ have yet again done their level best to muddy the once good name of Air NZ by refusing to honour any tickets purchased around the world in any Ansett ticketing centres for codeshare AN/NZ flights.
This morning some 300 pax out of Sydney and indeed around the world are stuck as a consequence of having given their hard-earned cash.
This has really done major damage to Air NZ as the media is just lapping this one up.
Do the board have any respect for the people that pay their salaries?
We can sit and analyse this mess and read about it in the future, but having great friends on both sides of the Tasman we are all in agreeance - the Air NZ board and governments are to blame.
We can sit and blame previous AN owners but lets be honest- Sir Selwyn went into the purchase of AN with his eyes wide open and having been warned by analysts and financial advisers around the world.
As they used to say in Rome....."Caveat Emptor" (let the buyer beware).
[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: Dambuster ]
Both Ansett and Air NZ employees and their respective families have been sorely let down by not only the board of Air NZ but also our respective governments for sticking their noses in (in the case of Oz) and Helen Clark for excelling in masterley inactivity and delayed procrastination!
(Didn't Nero just stand there playing the violin while Rome burnt around him?).
The board of Air NZ have yet again done their level best to muddy the once good name of Air NZ by refusing to honour any tickets purchased around the world in any Ansett ticketing centres for codeshare AN/NZ flights.
This morning some 300 pax out of Sydney and indeed around the world are stuck as a consequence of having given their hard-earned cash.
This has really done major damage to Air NZ as the media is just lapping this one up.
Do the board have any respect for the people that pay their salaries?
We can sit and analyse this mess and read about it in the future, but having great friends on both sides of the Tasman we are all in agreeance - the Air NZ board and governments are to blame.
We can sit and blame previous AN owners but lets be honest- Sir Selwyn went into the purchase of AN with his eyes wide open and having been warned by analysts and financial advisers around the world.
As they used to say in Rome....."Caveat Emptor" (let the buyer beware).
[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: Dambuster ]
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I always thought ostriches were a native of South Africa.
Been away for a couple of days working, taking stock etc. First up; Twomey did not start until January this year, lay off him. Second; Twomey said last night on TV that the bonuses were paid to ex Qantas management who came across with him. Third; The Howard government, including that loud-mouth Anderson, encouraged Air NZ to buy the second 50% last year to keep Singapore out. All the venom I've read here which emanates from Australia about mis-mananagement and bonusses etc looks increasingly Oz v Oz to me, keep it up!
If anybody should be angry it's us Kiwi's at Selwyn Cushing for getting us into this mess!
The Air NZ board has kept nothing from Ansett staff. It's been plain for months that they've been committed to saving a struggling Airline, not screwing it. Swapping Ansett good engines for Air NZ old ones - really? If there are Air NZ engines on Ansett hulls it's because the Ansett engines were knackered, or have you forgotten the two recent groundings? Ansett engineering better hadn't poke its head too far above the parapet!
When you look a long way back the equities market picked this outcome from the start. When Air NZ first got involved with the great Ozzie airline my Air NZ shares were close to $4 a piece (my wife advised me to sell then, I'm getting it at home too!). They have slid down at varying rates ever since, normally at an increasing rate when Air NZ lurched closer to responsibility for Ansett. Think about it.
Two things have really disturbed me in the last two days at work; A traffic clerk (delivering the load sheet) at an Australian airport, an Australian wearing an Air NZ uniform incidentally, was very stressed out at her treatment at the hands of Ansett staff and the Great Australian Travelling Public and the captain had to spend some time giving her sympathy and cheering her up.
Ansett staff really do not have many scruples and what confirmed that today was a copy of a poster produced by Ansett staff equating Gary Twomey with Osama Bin Laden. That is completely and utterly beyond the pale! No words I can string together can adequately express my disgust and contempt for the people who produced that poster. They obviously have no sense of proportion and if any Ppruners were involved in its production or have not torn it down and destroyed it on sight - SHAME ON YOU!
Been away for a couple of days working, taking stock etc. First up; Twomey did not start until January this year, lay off him. Second; Twomey said last night on TV that the bonuses were paid to ex Qantas management who came across with him. Third; The Howard government, including that loud-mouth Anderson, encouraged Air NZ to buy the second 50% last year to keep Singapore out. All the venom I've read here which emanates from Australia about mis-mananagement and bonusses etc looks increasingly Oz v Oz to me, keep it up!
If anybody should be angry it's us Kiwi's at Selwyn Cushing for getting us into this mess!The Air NZ board has kept nothing from Ansett staff. It's been plain for months that they've been committed to saving a struggling Airline, not screwing it. Swapping Ansett good engines for Air NZ old ones - really? If there are Air NZ engines on Ansett hulls it's because the Ansett engines were knackered, or have you forgotten the two recent groundings? Ansett engineering better hadn't poke its head too far above the parapet!
When you look a long way back the equities market picked this outcome from the start. When Air NZ first got involved with the great Ozzie airline my Air NZ shares were close to $4 a piece (my wife advised me to sell then, I'm getting it at home too!). They have slid down at varying rates ever since, normally at an increasing rate when Air NZ lurched closer to responsibility for Ansett. Think about it.
Two things have really disturbed me in the last two days at work; A traffic clerk (delivering the load sheet) at an Australian airport, an Australian wearing an Air NZ uniform incidentally, was very stressed out at her treatment at the hands of Ansett staff and the Great Australian Travelling Public and the captain had to spend some time giving her sympathy and cheering her up.
Ansett staff really do not have many scruples and what confirmed that today was a copy of a poster produced by Ansett staff equating Gary Twomey with Osama Bin Laden. That is completely and utterly beyond the pale! No words I can string together can adequately express my disgust and contempt for the people who produced that poster. They obviously have no sense of proportion and if any Ppruners were involved in its production or have not torn it down and destroyed it on sight - SHAME ON YOU!
And I'm getting sick of having to hear about dole bludging Kiwis from all of these thick TWU ****wits at work every day.
I had nothing to do with Ansetts collapse. Neither did any New Zealander except members of Air New Zealand's board and some Members of the New Zealand government.
All this vitriol coming out of these union cockheads has turned my opinion now.
I came across a couple of Ansett rampies in the shopping centre today collecting signatures on a petition. They asked me to sign but I said that whilst I sympathised with their plight - the propoganda going from their unions had resulted in me being personally abused at work and as such I could not support them.
I had nothing to do with Ansetts collapse. Neither did any New Zealander except members of Air New Zealand's board and some Members of the New Zealand government.
All this vitriol coming out of these union cockheads has turned my opinion now.
I came across a couple of Ansett rampies in the shopping centre today collecting signatures on a petition. They asked me to sign but I said that whilst I sympathised with their plight - the propoganda going from their unions had resulted in me being personally abused at work and as such I could not support them.
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S_O
I was picking up on something Viper said earlier in the thread about wool being pulled over eyes or something I've read elsewhere (on that point, Oz had better be careful about who pulled what wool, over who's eyes, when). The main point remains that the Air NZ management, probably consisting of ex-Qantas heavies who came with da big guy, looking into the affairs of Ansett only becoming aware of the situation probably by April at the earliest and spent the rest of the time trying to save Air NZ's investment by saving Ansett.
There's an interesting comment by Night Owl on this page http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=12&t=006871 about where responsibility might lie, I tend to go with him. Air NZ's cock up was buying the outfit in the first place.
I was picking up on something Viper said earlier in the thread about wool being pulled over eyes or something I've read elsewhere (on that point, Oz had better be careful about who pulled what wool, over who's eyes, when). The main point remains that the Air NZ management, probably consisting of ex-Qantas heavies who came with da big guy, looking into the affairs of Ansett only becoming aware of the situation probably by April at the earliest and spent the rest of the time trying to save Air NZ's investment by saving Ansett.
There's an interesting comment by Night Owl on this page http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=12&t=006871 about where responsibility might lie, I tend to go with him. Air NZ's cock up was buying the outfit in the first place.
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RUTB as a Kiwi I am embarrassed by all your sniping and poison. Try winding the thermostat down a little as you are not doing your countrymen any service. 
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Das Pferd ]
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Das Pferd ]
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D P
"If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!"
If you haven't noticed the blowtorch is being directed from the other side of the Tasman. Forgive me for holding up the mirror to them!
"If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!"
If you haven't noticed the blowtorch is being directed from the other side of the Tasman. Forgive me for holding up the mirror to them!
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I preface this with the disclaimer:This is an unsubstantiated RUMOUR however I heard tonight that "all Air New Zealand flights will be grounded at midnight tonight." End of quote.
I sincerely hope this is not true, one grounded airline is enough in this part of the world at the moment.
BSB
I sincerely hope this is not true, one grounded airline is enough in this part of the world at the moment.
BSB
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RUTB
Listen up fella.
U sould stop & place yourself in our shoes over here for just a minute.
No pay for last 4 weeks. Morgatge requiring payment NOW.
We are actually opening the door of our home for friends to stay because they have no money in the bank & cant pay the rent. This is not an isolated case i can asure u
So if u were in our shoes u would become emotive as well....let them blow off their steam.
U are obvioulsy only thinking about yourself & getting all upset because u are copping some barbs.Have some compassion. DP suggested u pull yr head in (fellow countryman)...WHY DONT U
If u come back at me with an aggressinve response then it will prove u are just a selfish cold hearted person
OTU
Listen up fella.
U sould stop & place yourself in our shoes over here for just a minute.
No pay for last 4 weeks. Morgatge requiring payment NOW.
We are actually opening the door of our home for friends to stay because they have no money in the bank & cant pay the rent. This is not an isolated case i can asure u
So if u were in our shoes u would become emotive as well....let them blow off their steam.
U are obvioulsy only thinking about yourself & getting all upset because u are copping some barbs.Have some compassion. DP suggested u pull yr head in (fellow countryman)...WHY DONT U
If u come back at me with an aggressinve response then it will prove u are just a selfish cold hearted person
OTU