Role of John Howard in the AN tragedy
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KYBO....no abuse and none intended, I just feel very sorry for the majority of AN staff when I see them being "led by the nose" by the union hacks of the TWU & ACTU. At times like these, most people will cling to anything or anyone that can offer them some hope however don't be blinded by the hype as the underlying political agenda is very different.
As for the Fin. Review not being a "normal" newspaper.....Hmmmmm.... It is just like any other newspaper...ie.written by journos...and pretty much one persons opinion...need I say more?
When it comes to the SIA/ANZ deal on Ansett, don't lose sight of those 2 very important words "pre-emptive right". Unfortunately for the AN staff, the board of directors at Air/NZ exercised that pre-emptive right (call it ego or whatever you like) but that is what happened and the rest is history.
Can't see a different outcome regardless of which political persuasion might have been top of the heap in Canberra.
KYBO, I sincerely hope that you can secure another good job quickly, however looking for someone to blame for this fiasco will not assist you in that endeavour.
As for the Fin. Review not being a "normal" newspaper.....Hmmmmm.... It is just like any other newspaper...ie.written by journos...and pretty much one persons opinion...need I say more?
When it comes to the SIA/ANZ deal on Ansett, don't lose sight of those 2 very important words "pre-emptive right". Unfortunately for the AN staff, the board of directors at Air/NZ exercised that pre-emptive right (call it ego or whatever you like) but that is what happened and the rest is history.
Can't see a different outcome regardless of which political persuasion might have been top of the heap in Canberra.
KYBO, I sincerely hope that you can secure another good job quickly, however looking for someone to blame for this fiasco will not assist you in that endeavour.
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A few points I am led to believe to be correct (don't take my word on it tho!)
-Ansetts owners of recent have all been interested in more immediate profits for an array of reasons.
-Singapore airlines was prepared to take a long term investment approach to build a safe reliable airline for both passengers and themselves as investors.
-Singapore airlines is a rare carrier in that it has no dept and I believe around 2 billion US$ in the bank (probably the only large airline in the world that can call itself stable)
-In the business world it is said Ansett was still trying to do business as it did in the days of rugulations.
-Qantas was aggresively carving out a niche in the upper end of the market while Virgin Blue was aggresively carving out a niche in economy end.
-Ansett was reactionary in its responces (We have done fine up to now, why change whats not broke?)
Now things are broke everyone wants to pass the blame when in fact all sides carry their little bit of responsibility.
Can I ask everyone a question?
Personalities aside which government would better serve the aviation industry in the the long run?
-Ansetts owners of recent have all been interested in more immediate profits for an array of reasons.
-Singapore airlines was prepared to take a long term investment approach to build a safe reliable airline for both passengers and themselves as investors.
-Singapore airlines is a rare carrier in that it has no dept and I believe around 2 billion US$ in the bank (probably the only large airline in the world that can call itself stable)
-In the business world it is said Ansett was still trying to do business as it did in the days of rugulations.
-Qantas was aggresively carving out a niche in the upper end of the market while Virgin Blue was aggresively carving out a niche in economy end.
-Ansett was reactionary in its responces (We have done fine up to now, why change whats not broke?)
Now things are broke everyone wants to pass the blame when in fact all sides carry their little bit of responsibility.
Can I ask everyone a question?
Personalities aside which government would better serve the aviation industry in the the long run?
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Toomey inherited the mess. If you want to blame anybody, blame Cushing, the hick accountant form the Hawkes Bay. He had control of the day to day running of the Group for the first six months, after the pushing of McRea, until Toomey was hired.
He was responsible for forcing AirNZ to take up their pre-requisite rights.
He is definitely the one that has been ducking for cover ever since the debacle turned sour.
Toomey is just the boy who has been doing as he is told and he and Farmer are the fall guys.
He was responsible for forcing AirNZ to take up their pre-requisite rights.
He is definitely the one that has been ducking for cover ever since the debacle turned sour.
Toomey is just the boy who has been doing as he is told and he and Farmer are the fall guys.
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nufsaid
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I suppose you also believe everything that the ACTU and TWU are telling you at the "RA RA" rallies.....for heavens sake get the blinkers off and see what the real agenda is here.
Oh and yes....Big Kimbo said he is going to get you all your jobs back .....guess you believed that one as well.
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An interesting parallel would you say when we remember that the AFAP told their members that they would all get their jobs back.
Especially when it was obvious that it was untrue.
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
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I suppose you also believe everything that the ACTU and TWU are telling you at the "RA RA" rallies.....for heavens sake get the blinkers off and see what the real agenda is here.
Oh and yes....Big Kimbo said he is going to get you all your jobs back .....guess you believed that one as well.
_____________________________________________
An interesting parallel would you say when we remember that the AFAP told their members that they would all get their jobs back.
Especially when it was obvious that it was untrue.
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
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If the ACTU and the TWU "leaders" think that AN is such a good bet, why have they not put up their members super funds, in which they control $Ms maybe $Bs, and get the airline up and running?
Maybe even a loan?
Maybe even a loan?
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FSU......your comments sound typical of a self serving Qandom "hero". If indeed this a correct description, then I would have thought that you may have had a little more compassion for your AN colleagues who do NOT HAVE an "effective" union (forget 'ersatz' APA) and have been blinded by the mouthings of TWU & ACTU hacks who do really don't give a rodents backside about AN pilots, instead considering them to be silver-tails and fat cats.
Personally I don't much care what happens to the AN "heroes" but consider that the post '90 AN pilots deserve a chance to get on with their lives and build a new flying career without being "used" by persons with ulterior political agendas.
Oh....and as it was you that decided to hark back to the events of '89 in endeavouring to compare an industrial dispute with a financial collapse....... perhaps if you had a tad more intestinal fortitude back then, we wouldn't be having this discussion......nufsaid!
Personally I don't much care what happens to the AN "heroes" but consider that the post '90 AN pilots deserve a chance to get on with their lives and build a new flying career without being "used" by persons with ulterior political agendas.
Oh....and as it was you that decided to hark back to the events of '89 in endeavouring to compare an industrial dispute with a financial collapse....... perhaps if you had a tad more intestinal fortitude back then, we wouldn't be having this discussion......nufsaid!
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nufsaid,
That's the trouble with you chaps. You are so blinded by hate you keep leaping to wrong assumptions. No I am not a Qandom hero as you suppose.
I agree substantially with your assessment of the political motives involved and please note, once again, that insulting remarks do your point of view no good.
It is sickening to see Kim draped in the Ansett flag taking advantage of the plight of ALL the AN workers surrounding him.
The parallel was the promise...... YOU WILL ALL GET YOUR JOBS BACK!!
Nuff said!!
That's the trouble with you chaps. You are so blinded by hate you keep leaping to wrong assumptions. No I am not a Qandom hero as you suppose.
I agree substantially with your assessment of the political motives involved and please note, once again, that insulting remarks do your point of view no good.
It is sickening to see Kim draped in the Ansett flag taking advantage of the plight of ALL the AN workers surrounding him.
The parallel was the promise...... YOU WILL ALL GET YOUR JOBS BACK!!
Nuff said!!
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Fsu:
<The parallel was the promise...... YOU WILL ALL GET YOUR JOBS BACK!!>
Being a bit selective with your observations here aren't you?
Read what nuffsaid posted - he completely demolishes your argument with the fact that there is a huge difference between an industrial dispute and a financial collapse.
The domestic airlines in the first instance were not the basket case that AN is at this time. This time around there is not a viable airline for everyone to go back to.
<The parallel was the promise...... YOU WILL ALL GET YOUR JOBS BACK!!>
Being a bit selective with your observations here aren't you?
Read what nuffsaid posted - he completely demolishes your argument with the fact that there is a huge difference between an industrial dispute and a financial collapse.
The domestic airlines in the first instance were not the basket case that AN is at this time. This time around there is not a viable airline for everyone to go back to.
Thread Starter
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Hey Nufsaid
I take yr comments on board
Just to let u know......u are right what u say about the Unions....i dont believe in them either.
Yr comments about looking for a job instead of running around in blind hatred trying to blame someone............valid points.........I actually just posted the fin review for interests sake,,,,,,,,,yes i do believe that Howard shouldn't have delayes the SIA deal but I certainly dont blame just him but i am not looking back on the whole stuff. I have actually enjoyed my time off..........& have some opportunities as well............so yup i am getting on with it. & No i am not a hero either. I decided back in 89 while i was in GA that the opportunity to join was not an option for me a number of reasons.
I take yr comments on board
Just to let u know......u are right what u say about the Unions....i dont believe in them either.
Yr comments about looking for a job instead of running around in blind hatred trying to blame someone............valid points.........I actually just posted the fin review for interests sake,,,,,,,,,yes i do believe that Howard shouldn't have delayes the SIA deal but I certainly dont blame just him but i am not looking back on the whole stuff. I have actually enjoyed my time off..........& have some opportunities as well............so yup i am getting on with it. & No i am not a hero either. I decided back in 89 while i was in GA that the opportunity to join was not an option for me a number of reasons.
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Desert Dingo and nuffsaid,
Oh! For goodness sake! Don't you recognise the difference between singular and plural?
The(singular) parallel(singular) was( singular verb) the promise(singular)...... YOU WILL ALL GET YOUR JOBS BACK!!
But there is one other parallel at least common to both situations and that is that the promise is patently untrue.
[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
Oh! For goodness sake! Don't you recognise the difference between singular and plural?
The(singular) parallel(singular) was( singular verb) the promise(singular)...... YOU WILL ALL GET YOUR JOBS BACK!!
But there is one other parallel at least common to both situations and that is that the promise is patently untrue.
[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
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Good for you KYBO.....the positive signals are now loud and clear, and I feel sure that you will emerge from this fiasco a winner.
Don't know if you are interested in moving offshore, however as daunting as it may seem right now, opportunities will emerge and you will never look back. Having been in your position some 12 years ago and subsequently spending a decade O/S, the positives are enormous, not just for you but for your family as well....in fact I often wish I had done it years earlier.
From what you said in your last post, you will find you are welcome anywhere. (see Betelgeuse's post in the "Virgin Blue are etc.." thread)
Stay positive and good luck for the future.
Don't know if you are interested in moving offshore, however as daunting as it may seem right now, opportunities will emerge and you will never look back. Having been in your position some 12 years ago and subsequently spending a decade O/S, the positives are enormous, not just for you but for your family as well....in fact I often wish I had done it years earlier.
From what you said in your last post, you will find you are welcome anywhere. (see Betelgeuse's post in the "Virgin Blue are etc.." thread)
Stay positive and good luck for the future.
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Anyone recall FSU standing up at any 89/90 meeting and saying "the AFAP is leading us up the garden path?"
Nope!
Easier to slink away, and anonymously sprout vitriol later.
Oh - AND make sure no AFAP member gets a job in Aus.
Nope!
Easier to slink away, and anonymously sprout vitriol later.
Oh - AND make sure no AFAP member gets a job in Aus.
