Bye Bye XP?
 

As that moment approaches, can someone explain to me what will happen to my XP installed programmes which I run under Win7 if I remove the XP OS from my drive? Do I need to re-install all these on Win7?

Does the 'Run as XP' option require the XP OS? I guess it will need the XP registry?

As a 'supplementary', is there an option to continue with XP on my machine but with internet access disabled for it (XP) or will it still be 'vulnerable'?

I have run the virtualisation detection tool but it tells me I do not 'have the necessary permissions to access the item'. As per the M$ page, do I need to download and install Windows XP Mode, and Windows Virtual PC?

I'm confused, how exactly are you planning to remove XP from your drive and yet not remove your programs or data ?

Of course not. Everything that function needs is built into Windows 7/8.

Only in a truly and permanently disabled form... i.e. it will never, ever be connected to a network cable or WiFi hotspot ever again.

You of course would also need to ensure you don't infect it via indirect vectors (e.g. plugging USB sticks in).

Basically, the only place for XP is the bin.

I've been trying to tell our local library that for the past year. They are still using it. No doubt our local authority is too. Okay until things go wrong...........

- you really are an old grump, aren't you?

Answer - by deleting the Windows folder?

Not really, only when it comes to XP clinger-ons.

Aah... well, you didn't make that bit at all clear. So basically you're turning it into an external hard drive with your old files on it. Which is fine... as long as you don't connect it to an XP machine ! :cool:

You will of course break your software at the same time as Windows, but you knew that I guess.

But really, if I were you, I'd look at a clean migration to 7 or 8. And then only move accross files you really need, and install software from scratch.

I can safely predict that millions will go on operating XP for years on the internet.

Nothing will be said that can stop this

Are there some browsers in the works that can sense XP and block their internet function.

How about FTP programs as well?

Be afraid :eek:

Funny how for years now Win versions have gone ..good version-bad, version-good version, bad version etc. win 2000 was good, windows millenium was crap, xp was good, vista was crap win 7 was good, win 8 is crap

- I don't think you have quite understood the question. I have no intention of using XP after 6 April (unless extended), am happily running W7, but I have several little progs collected over the years without install files any more, and would like to continue to use them. I do not understand enough about the 'install' process, and yes, my 'external drive' as it will become has these progs 'installed' on it - in the registry? Thus I do not comprehend "You will of course break your software at the same time as Windows". Your statement "Of course not. Everything that function needs is built into Windows 7/8." appears totally contradictory.

I have assumed that the XP based progs require dll's and the like to run. If I delete the XP OS, they go too, do they not, so the question is what can I do?

Yes, roll on 9.

Win 97 was OK, too. IIABDFI

and it often sounds like an obsession bordering on hysteria.

What if it turns out to be another Y2K, a marketing ploy?

(a) Y2K wasn't a marketing ploy, the effort spent resolved issues before they became issues.

(b) XP becoming obsolete is certainly not something to joke about. It is absolutely not a good idea to be running XP after April, that's a fact backed up by much evidence.

Is there anyone who understands the architecture of running XP programmes in Windows7 please; do I need to retain the Windows (XP) folder, and are there any risks involved in retaining the XP OS on my drive in order to do so if I do not connect to the internet with it?

Is the answer a VM?

BOAC,

Your question still lacks adequate information. Are you talking about a dual-boot environment?

It depends on whether the applications were installed through / under Win 7 or not. If they were, then the presence or absence of XP is irrelevant (unless you specifically chose to install them into a Windows XP system folder!!).

By install, I mean to create registry entries and / or locate application files in the Windows directory structure.

If they were installed under XP, but accessible to Win 7 using the XP executables / binaries, then removing XP will prevent them from working with Win 7. However, I wouldn't expect many such applications to function properly.

Any application whose installation process is simply to place an executable file (and ancillary files) elsewhere on the disk (without modifying the registry or the Windows directory) will be accessible to any Windows OS with access to that disk (16 / 32 / 64-bit compatibility allowing).

SD

- yes, as per post 1? I thought that was clear - "my XP installed programmes which I run under Win7". Yes it is dual-boot but will not be post 6/4.

- all so far do. I have yet to have a 'failure'. All sorts of useful little utilities culled even from W2000 days and probably earlier.

- I cannot see I have a snowball's chance in hell of finding that out over all the years. So, I would appreciate answers from someone to (without frightening mixture, of course.

The point is if you can run them from within Win7 now then the presence or absence of WinXP is immaterial as they're self contained and running without reference to the OS they were installed under. They weren't installed under Win7 so Win7 can have no "knowledge" of file locations and settings. The programs themselves are providing that information when they run.

For starters look at the directory they're installed in (as in where does the shortcut you run them with point) - they most likely have their own directory that contains all the files needed. It's much like the current day "portable" installations where you can run software "installed" on a flash drive.

I doubt leaving WinXP intact but unused will pose much of a danger because trying to run anything from it under Win7 will fail (wrong registry, wrong files and everything in the wrong place).

The issue only arises when you boot XP and connect it to the internet.

Preferably you should be looking to achieve both, since in its disconnected state XP will soon start to show signs of obsolescence (bugs etc.).

As mentioned above, if you effectively turn the XP drive into "just another" external/internal hard drive by killing off its ability to boot (e.g. removing C:\Windows as you previously mentioned), then you can just adopt the security posture as you would any other filesystem under your Windows 7/8 machine.

I think the confusion from me (and it seems others here) was your mention of
"XP installed programmes "...... kill your ability to boot XP and you'll kill those programs too.

If on the other hand you're talking about "Run as XP" in 7/8 then just install them in 7/8 and use them there.

- thanks Ping - therein lies the problem - does Win7 call on the XP OS to track down the dlls via the registry and so on?

Leaving the OS in place may well be the choice (poor Mixture....:)) but I would have thought a VM would be a better and safer option. Otherwise how to ENSURE that no internet access reaches any part of XP?

It's dual boot. Neither OS knows anything about the other. You have it configured so Win7 can access the filesystem that WinXP is installed on but all it sees is a collection of files, not an OS. WinXP isn't running in any way shape or form and the WinXP registry isn't accessed as Win7 doesn't even know it exists.

You can't run WinXP inside Win7 like that. With dual boot it's one or the other. If you never boot into WinXP again there is no risk.

Absolutely not.

If - as you claim - all these applications installed under XP still work under 7, why do you need to run XP at all (in the sense of being able to boot into it)?

Why do you need to even contemplate running XP "in a VM"?

There is zero threat if you have old XP executable, system files etc. hanging around wasting disk space if you don't boot into it.

Easiest way to see if all your old gubbins still work is to rename the XP Windows directory to something else - from within Win 7, obviously. If everything works, then the applications don't need anything in the Windows directory and you can just delete it, lock stock and barrel.

SD

- aha! Back to my original question! No, I did not suggest 'booting into it' by the way.

- seemed like an option? (Thinking of Mixture's ulcer.....)
- good stuff - yup, a simple solution indeed. Will try.

As Windows 8 is widely acknowledged to be an utter disaster, why on Earth haven't the Micro$oft tosseurs brought out something for grown-ups which is as user-friendly as WinXP, if they expect XP users to change?

As has been said, people are going to continue to use WinXP for many years yet, thanks to the garbage which is Win8. Even though Micro$oft are trying to frighten them into paying hundreds of pounds/dollars/€uros to scrap perfectly good systems.....

And don't bother telling me how wunnerful Mac systems are....

I suggest they did - Win 7.

SD

MS is far from being the only ones telling people they need to use something different It's just sensible advice because using an unsupported OS online is a risk, and being WinXP it's an even bigger risk as it's a great fat juicy target with a well developed set of hacking tools to hand and plenty of very experienced WinXP blackhats to use them. It's a fair bet that some very nasty exploits will come to light after April 8th.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Linux user and have no association with MS.

As SD says there's Win7 and yes, the Metro interface is a dog on the desktop but add something like ClassicShell and it's quite usable.

Rather a lot of airlines are still using XP, so when it goes u/s I suspect there will be the usual Aviation customer service problems. Tents at T5 and T4 again soon?

I think M$ are dropping themselves in it big time by stopping support for XP.

After April 8 millions of people will continue to use XP, many oblivious to the potential risks. Many of these machines will end up having security comprimises and rightly or wrongly people will blame Micro$oft.
Millions of others will now rush out and buy a new machine, retailers, in order to cash in, will bump up the prices and people will blame Micro$oft.
Those new machines, if people stick with Windows, will come with Windows #8, or to put it more accurately number two because a lot of people think its crap. Thats right, you guessed it, millions of people will blame micro$oft.

They are losing a LOT of customer goodwill by doing this. Many people are happy with XP because they dont need a powerful gaming platform or a thousand useless apps or want all this social media connectivity crap or cloud computing BS.

Meanwhile back at the ranch - changing the XP OS directory name seems to allow the progs to run as SD said, but changing the user profile folder name (denying much of the app data) throws a wobbly.

- confusion? Not what the others think! By "XP installed programmes" I mean programmes installed with XP as the OS - simples? I cannot think of any better way to say that. The opinion appears to be that an "XP installed programme" will still run in Win7 without the XP OS.

(PS I am not intending to 'boot into XP')

Out of interest, none of the 'old' Office suite runs in Win7 with a changed XP directory name, so I assume some part of the installation depends on the XP OS.

Until it came to light your were dual booting I didn't know what you were meaning by "XP installed" - didn't make a lot of sense.

The only reason these particular programs will run is that they're "old school" and don't use the registry. Old school as in designed for Win98. Most more modern software unless it's designed to run "portably" will use the registry and can't be run except through the OS it was installed on.

If you knew the slightest thing about the IT industry, you would know that is utter nonsense !

At the level of anything you as an average Joe home user buys, the competition is fierce, and price point has been overused as a competitive tool that margins have been eroded.

Seriously. We're talking generally about a 5% margin, maybe 8% if you're lucky. Dealing with average Joe home users, its all a bit box-shifting volume game.

Heavens above! At the time the programmes were installed, in fact, I was 'dual booting' 2000 and XP and sometimes triple with Linux, but these programmes were downloaded and the mouse clicked to install under XP if that makes it clearer? I am NOT dual booting now if that helps? I cannot really see what 'dual booting' has to do with the query.

Your last para does not agree with mixture

So you mean you've done a fresh install of Windows 7, and you're magically expecting the XP software you installed back when you used to boot into XP to work ?

If you installed the software as you should, under Windows 7, then I can't see a reason why it shouldn't work unless there are some weird library dependencies.

Maybe you'd like to fire up Paint and sketch us a diagram of how said software inter-relates to Windows 7 and your legacy XP system.... sometimes a picture = 1000 words as they say ;-)

Yes, but did you actually install it under Windows 7 ? Or did you just rename the "old" Windows directory and hope for the best ?

If the latter, then I'm not at all surprised you broke it.

Any MS Office programs will need to be reinstalled, so that the W7 registry knows where the program lives. Any program that had data written to the XP registry will need to be ri installed unfortunately.

Do you really need to dump XP?? It will continue to operate as well as it does on the day support is stopped. Those who write programs to exploit vulnerabilities, will be targetting W7/8/9(?) and no doubt forget XP exisits.

Those businesses that continue to use XP, will probably do so, due to the difficulty in migrating their systems to newer platforms.

It wasn't clear what you meant by "XP installed programs" - were they installed in XP: dual boot? VM? XP mode on Win7 Pro? XP compatibility mode? Simply copied from elsewhere?

I understand you aren't booting XP but the programs you are running are part of a dual boot installation.

It's been many years since I've touched Win9x but many programs installed their own directory tree and used .ini files to store settings. Copy the required bits to another computer & it would run. You'd end up with multiple copies of some runtime files of assorted version numbers scattered all over your system because each program brought their own copy.

The fact the programs are ancient and actually run under the arrangement you have would suggest they're of the type outlined above. i.e. all you likely need is the directory tree for the program for it to run.

Avtrician, what makes you think the baddies won't target WinXP? If we believe Netmarketshare's figures WinXP still had a 29% market share in February 2014, meaning there will still be several 100 million PCs running it. I'd call that a huge fat juicy target, and a static one to boot. Qnce a flaw is discovered it will be there forever unpatched. Looks like easy pickings to me.

Not to mention that flaws in one Windows version often affect other versions as well. Every patch released for Win7 is potentially addressing a flaw that also exists in WinXP. The patch will be reverse engineered and exploits created to attack those flaws. WinXP will be included in the exploit as it costs very little extra to do so.

:ugh:

Oh what it is to be so naive !

(a) The dark side will be well aware there will be a whole generation of clinger-ons like you ... and they will take much enjoyment from "p3wn'ing" your system. XP users are a dream for them .... they know their exploits will never get patched, and there will be a reasonable number of XP clinger-ons ... as a result they can demand and get $$$ for their exploits on the black market.

(b) As well as XP specific exploits, they will also be looking at 7/8 exploits and backporting those to XP.

So no, they're not going to leave you alone and forget about it. Infact, I fully expect more rather than less XP exploits to become available, and that those XP exploits will be quite nasty !

Please... DO NOT.... compare yourself as a home user to businesses.

For home users, there is only one option.... get rid of XP. There is no excuse.

The same goes for mom & pop small businesses..... get rid of XP. There is no excuse.

Large Businesses & Government have more options because they have a well financed IT department and the money to pay Microsoft for XP support (the NHS for example are about to write Microsoft a cheque for £40m to cover extended XP support.... for 12 months ). The cost and hassle of supporting obsolete systems is simply not worth it unless you have to.

However you will find that even large businesses & government are moving away from XP unless they absolutely need to stay.

Aha! So that's it, the uk NHS and, no doubt, local authorities can buy ongoing support.

So what about the small users? If support is possible on large systems, it must also be possible on small systems, and if m-soft refuses surely this puts it open to independent companies to offer support? In fact, doesn't it make XP an open-market product? Look for some interesting legal cases in coming years!

Yawn. :ugh:

Microsoft have given every man and his dog more than enough notice about the impending obsolescence of XP (EOL first announced 14th April 2009). The fact people are too lazy to have done anything about it is not Microsoft's problem.

Do you realise how much it costs to maintain a complex codeset such as those in operating systems ? Microsoft cannot be expected to support everything forever. They now have support for 7 & 8 running, and are busy working on 9 .... so its only to be expected that they have to drop old products in order to make way for new.

There won't be any "interesting legal cases". And there won't be any "independent support" ... the XP source code remains Microsoft's own intellectual property.... only the same idiots who use XP after April would trust third-party patches !

I've already made it clear above why Microsoft give large government and businesses the opportunity to pay for support .... its because they have legacy systems that will take longer to migrate (or in the case of the NHS they've simply got a vast PC estate of some one million plus PCs... that's just going to take time to get into every nook and cranny). Home users and small business do not have such legacy systems or large estates, and thus they have no excuse not to migrate away from XP.

Not convinced that Europe will agree, they have a pretty good track record on bringing New World upstarts to heel.....

I guess the black market for XP critical updates will be more widespread and more available than the one for W2K, which is already pretty good :}

That'll work really well Henry, particularly when it's finally settled sometime after 2025 and MS has no-one left who knows anything about the code and the last time it was maintained was 2017. Would you really be prepared to pay $200 in the first year, $400 in the second and $800 in the third for support? That's what MS is charging per seat.

Pingouin - not a prob for me, I get a new tablet each year, currently on Jelly Bean, next will be KitKat.......

Probably a bit late to this thread. but Under Win7, you can run XP Mode, which is a Virtual PC running Windows XP. It works fine, I use it regularly to run some older software.

BTW, not sure why everyone rags on Win 8. Its exactly the same as Win 7 outside of the UI. If you dont like the UI, you can install the 8.1 service pack and you can revert it back to the old UI.

I am really getting to like Windows now. I run it as my main OS, then run XP,Ubuntu and Red Hat in Virtual Machines. Now I just need to figure out how to make OSX run under VM and then I am down to just one PC and one Laptop.