Aah... so you're basing all your harshness towards Apple products over your very unscientific survey of one.

Well, let me tell you, neither my current or my previous MacBook pro, nor those of others at work exhibit the issues you describe. The only time you can get the fan going on a MacBook pro is if you are deliberatley performing CPU intensive tasks such as video rendering etc. ... but the CPU tasks have to be pretty intensive ... in which case I would fully expect the fan to start running, I'm surprised you would not !

Just typing and browsing the internet, you'll never get the fan going... ever !

I owned my previous MacBook pro for over 6 years and it performed flawlessley throughout despite me working it hard. Same with my current one. The only reason I upgraded was to get access to GPU rendering in Adobe in the newer model, otherwise I would have happily continued using it for another few years.

They are excellent value for money.

Wrong again buddy, just stating something that is occurring right now, on this particular mac. Dont forget, I work in enterprise computing, so I deal with a lot more of this !!!! than you care to know about.

I have them in reverse order. Linux, then Mac with Windows at the bottom of the pile. I'd put Windows 8 down with ME and Vista, too, at the bottom of the Windows collection now I've had the misfortune to have to use it for a week or so.

I have no problems with the Linux desktop, KDE is a mature and stable interface. I guess it helps that regardless of OS, I turn off all the eye candy and other pointless desktop animations and run a basic interface. For Windows I load Classic Shell and set it back to the good old interface too. My wife prefers Macs, so I've had plenty of experience maintaining them. My son, once I set up Minecraft on Linux on his dual-boot PC hasn't been back to Windows, "I think I've outgrown Windows" is what he said. :E

Wot, you have to maintain them? :E

Well on another thread I see you saying Linux is a POS .... so I suspect you're just one of those grumpy old farts who is never going to be satisfied unless they've coded it themselves ! :cool:

Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

"According to MS, the main userbase prefers the metro interface."

Well they would say that, wouldn't they!

It's hard to find anyone in the business users world who likes it.

Fine for a tablet but not for serious use.

And mix, the fan control in my old MacMini has been up the chute for a couple of years now - always on full and yes I did all the resets imaginable to fix it. Had to install a 3rd party fan control app to tame it.

My black MacBook has also not been hardware or software problem-free tho' running OK at the moment.

Macs are great but but very expensive and the Macs of today are essentially unrepairable - no problem if you've bought the (expensive) AppleCare Protection Plan which gives you a swap replacement but if you haven't and it goes titsup you just have to throw it away and buy a new one.

Gotta say - these days I think the best thing is to get the most generic gear you can and install an LTS mainstream Linux distro.

Mac (sic...)

:8

To all the IT gurus out there.

Is my current hardware suitable for windows 7? I have found these items on my pc:

Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3

System Manufacturer: PACKARD BELL BV
System Model: IMEDIA 2579
System Type: x86- based PC
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
BIOS version/Date: W7301 VP2.303 , 05/12/2006
SMBIOS Version: 2.4
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 CPU 6300 @ 1.86GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2046MB RAM


Graphics:
Chip Type: Radeon x1650 Series, ATI Technologies
DAC Type: Internal DAC(400Mhz)
Memory: 512MB
Current Display Mode: 1280 by 1024 (32 bit) (60Hz)


Am I correct in assuming that by using a 64 bit version of Win 7, I can upgrade my RAM significantly or does that depend on the age of my PC?


Thanks.
mo

Pretty much my opinion too, except I say go buy the cheapest thing that suits you needs and requires the least amount of user input.


@maxed-out - your biggest problem putting win 7 on an older PC is the lack of drivers. Manufacturers of hardware tend not to go back and write new drivers for old hardware unless is very specialised stuff. If you want to upgrade, buy a cheap PC from Dell or your local chain computer store is probably a better way to go. Otherwise just stick with XP for now, which these days is fairly secure provided you dont go clicking on links in emails too often (or surfing for porn :E ).

maxed-out,

That CPU is 64-bit.

However, it appears that the motherboard is limited to a maximum of 2GB RAM. It's got 2 slots, and it appears that it only supports up to 1GB modules, DDR2. It's possible that a BIOS update may allow larger RAM modules.

It will run Win 7, x64, but it will be hamstrung by the lack of RAM - 4GB makes it a lot faster.

You will need to go to the Packard Bell website to see if there are Win 7 drivers (and possibly a BIOS update) available for your particular model.

SD

Nah actually mixture your coming across as one of those IT types who has a very admin encentric view on the way the world wrks similar to the bloke whoes fingers i broke.

You have your picture but not the big picture. You have your views on your ideal world but that doesn't fit with reality.

I have been running high end hardware since i was a finite element engineer and its never changed we run them at 100% cpu and disk and when we are generating images the video gets a kicking as well. Our runs especially none linear take days not mins. The code we used to use was optimised for crays, which roll royce used.

My salary was 22k as an engineer, the hardware and software was approaching 35k a year when i was 25. Silcon graphics extreme grahics and ansys.

I will admit i fired a screw driver into the apple talk port on the A1 plotter when we got it.

Not sure who you are talking too, but my main work is 2 things, consulting work for large enterprise systems and electronic engineering. From a development perspective, both jobs require fairly high end, high powered systems. I am one of those exceptions to the rule though. You will find that for 99% of people here, all they need is email, web and word processor. Any cheap piece of hardware will do that just fine these days.

No its not at you. You seem to be the type i used to want to work with.

My game after rollouts was rnd packet switching with enterprise destrubuted bata bases with golbal live servers where the load was with sat backup when the internet went tits up. The current live DB moving with the time zone from primary to secondary etc. The engineering stuff was ours short and sweet. Raid 0 ram to max proc has hard as you could get at the time and IT had sod all to do with the purchase or the spec. In fact most of the time it was unix boxes and they didn' t have root anyway. We had our own subnet and they got there arses kicked if there was any !!!!e on that subnet.

Macs with that broadcast crap were just pushed off and relegated to the extreme bollocks subnet. With a switch so the rest of us didn't have to deal with that crap.

The even thought that a machine isn' t running at .98 .99 from the day its live is a waste of resource to me.

if you use window xp then quickly upgraded to window 7 or 8.
Because of the upcoming patch window xp files will not be supported, then your computer will be in danger.
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This might make some people happy Microsoft is bringing the Start Menu back | The Verge

No idea what you are on about mad_jock, and quite honestly I'm not interested in wasting any more time trying to figure out what you are on about and attempting to discuss it with you.

There is no "view on the world" to be had when it comes to XP. XP is obsolete and people insisting on using it after April 8th are nothing but stubborn mules. XP is obsolete and people are taking very real risks with their insistence on using it after April 8th.

I've had it up to here with this stupid little thread.... time to grab the popcorn and watch people learn the hard way !

You guys/gals will be pleased to know I still run some Win 95 and NT4.0 boxes! All off network though. Also got some OS2/Warp 4 machines scattered around the place (ATM's)!

hey mad_jock, apple stuff can be noisy on networks, but some of their networking stuff is pretty neat. Bonjour is excellent, likewise the spin off GNU stuff (avahi) is also pretty good. I am no network engineer, but I work with some and they do constantly have challenges with it on large networks with multiple subnets. It also makes up for a large amount of network bandwidth when you have a lot of devices. Its becoming a real problem with things like iPads. However, like you said, if you can segregate it to a small subnet then it really is a good thing. Mobs like cisco and motorola are doing grand things in this space now from what I have been told.

mixture - you know my view on this. As a pensioner, nothing that Apple makes is "good value for money". They appear to be good products, but they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive for us poor people.

My basic rule for advising people on what to buy is, if you own a mac and are familiar with it, then stick with it. If you are familiar with windows, then stick with that.

As for quality, well mac is no better than any midrange pc based stuff. I have had pc laptops last 12 months, I have had ones last 12 years. Mac is no different. Ugly as they are, I would vote HP as the most rugged laptop, and ASUS as next. Asus stuff is probably better these days. Worst I would say is toshiba, which given they were the best in the early 90's is a sign that what is good now may not be so 10 years down the track.

Just got a rog asus g750jw for 999 quid. I stuck a ssd in and it really shifts.

Not really doing IT these days but have to sort the occassional issue out in the office. I have a look at what they have done every couple of months and sometimes reconfigure things when some bright spark has piggy backed hubs etc.

I think next time i am in i will setup an apple wifi network for all the i gadgets and stick it into the current apple subnet. I had forgotten about them getting into the pc network.

To be honest i don't per say care if someone has a mac or not. Its when they try and use some gizzmo productivity crap without seeing what bandwidth it uses.

Saab,

Thanks for the info. Maybe I should look at a new motherboard then.

Cheers,
mo

Interesting that Avast is requesting an online survey this morning from its users who are still running the XP OS.

Of most interest is that they seem to be promising to provide modules and protection systems which will guard against XP vulnerabilities which may be exploited after Apr 8th.

A bold step indeed....

FOR

I still have an OS/2 v4.5 virtual machine running.

Please read what has already been explained on this thread a million times !

Avast is spouting utter bull, as is any other company promising to protect you after April 8th.

Without Windows being patched up, you are up :mad: creek without a paddle. There is absolutely ***NOTHING*** Avast or anybody else can do to protect you against exploits that make use of vulnerable APIs and other aspects of the Operating System itself.... how many times do I have to repeat myself on that point ! :ugh:

Please don't allow them to pull the wool over your eyes with marketing/PR nonsense... for that is all it is.

The only place for XP after the 8th of April is the bin.

Over 25% of internet users disagree.

And unless microsoft releases something which kills them i really can`t see that number dropping for years

I still run a virtual Commodore Vic-20 via VICE and PCVIC. Even run the games I wrote as a kid (even wrote a converter for extracting bits off the cassette tape).

http://arthurguru.users.sourceforge....screenshot.jpg

I wish I was still as smart, maybe that's why I'm still hanging onto XP :ouch:.

Mixture is espousing the right info, we need to let go and move on.....

Personally, I'm surprised Apple hasn't temporarily dropped its prices to near cost to capitalise on this enforced change by Microsoft. One might think this would be a good time for them to lock in new users to its products.

Elite for the bbc micro still whips alot of the newer games.


None of us are actually saying he is wrong.

Just that he is living in cloud cuckoo land thinking that even a small minority of xp users are going to upgrade without something happening. And even if something major happens there will still be a load that won't change because they can't due to required software usage.

Chucky Egg on the Atari STFM is still good fun too.

Useless random internet statistics.

Where did they get the data ? Nobody asked me, and I'm an "internet user" :cool:

How many of the supposed 25% XP users are corporate/government users who are guaranteed to be moving away from XP in within 24 month.

How many of the supposed 25% have any sort of IT knowledge ?

etc etc etc ad infinitum....

The OS X 10.9 upgrade was/is being given away free to 10.8 users.

I agree in principle it sounds like a great idea to do so but....

The problem is the business model doesn't really permit it. Since unless its an upgrade scenario (10.8->10.9 excepted), they don't charge for the operating system as such (unlike Microsoft where you can buy Windows off the shelf, or manufacturers pay royalties). With Apple the hardware subsidises the software. The cost of developing and maintaining OS X for desktops/laptops (and iOS for phones and pads) is paid for by the hardware.

Which is one other reason why people saying Apple is expensive are just spouting FUD ..... they use premium parts and don't cut corners in their hardware. On top of that, margins from the hardware go towards the software.

Also Apple probably know realistically that by the time they discount the business/government XP users, the stubborn users, the budget/developing country/"BOAC the Pensionner" XP users,that the number of new users they would gain from temporary agressive pricing is probably limited (in relative terms).

Apple are starting to make some efforts to start catering for those on a lower budget (e.g. the plastic versions of the iPhone 5) ... but they don't want to start cutting corners and going all cheap because that would risk brand integrity. I suspect we will probably eventually see a re-introduction of a plastic option for Apple laptops (and maybe even desktops, but I suspect they're waiting to see how the desktop game pans out in the industry).

Its a bit like saying BMW or Audi should go competing in the Ford Mondeo world. Sure a Mondeo is cheaper and it will get you from A to B.... but the cheapness shows in the parts and construction and it would be tiring to drive on long distance jaunts.

What people could look at doing under their own steam would be to get a WEEE recycling company to buy their computers (or just flog em on Ebay) and use the money from that to contribute towards the cost of buying an Apple.

Glad to hear it. :cool:

I'm merely trying to encourage people not to learn the hard way. And as for "required software usage", for the majority of people it'll be irrelevant and stuff will run on 7/8 that ran on XP.... and most home users do little more than browse the web, send emails, write letters and play a few games..... none of which needs XP.

Its certainly inexcusable however for businesses of any size not to migrate (unless they're paying Microsoft for ongoing support of course).... of course there are edge cases, primarily with embedded systems such as ATMs and machinery control... but one would hope those systems have no ability to access the internet and are on locked down isolated networks anyway !

Almost every non technical user I've come across has stayed with Mac once they made the switch. It is fair to assume that most XP hanger-on'ers are of the non technical variety. I feel it's wrong for Apple to start making el-cheapo hardware as this puts it on the path of a race to the bottom. I also feel Apple are missing a golden opportunity in reigning in users who will experience Mac ownership for the first time and probably never go back. Maybe they should offer a price discount to those that hand in a genuine XP license.

Furthermore, with W8 being a supposed flop (metro interface isn't for everyone), Apple should have further seized upon Microsoft's bad marketting of itself.

That indeed is one of the major problems in the broader IT industry, and in particular the part of the industry that deals with home users. What you end up with is today's marketplace where there is "choice"... but most of it is not worth touching with the proverbial bargepole.

Unfortunately most home users (and indeed many businesses) do not realise that a low price point does not necessarily equate to value.

They could perhaps be doing a better job of getting the message across that by buying Mac you're not necessarily choosing between Mac or Windows.... Windows runs perfectly well on a Mac either natively (Bootcamp) or virtualised (VMWare or Parallels).

There are other areas they should highlight too.

There's a modern equivalent for PCs, Oolite. Same basic game, just with better graphics and a huge expansion of the trading options.

Interesting to read Mixture's put-down of the Mondeo versus other car brands. I'm curious to know if he's driven one this century. Shades of Win ME?

Government signs £5.5m Microsoft deal to extend Windows XP support

Tee hee. I eagerly await these updates to fall off the back of a virtual truck :} :cool:

Interesting to read Mixture's put-down of the Mondeo versus other car brands

Surely Mr K, you are questioning neither our esteemed colleague's knowledge both automotive and computive, nor his right to express himself the way he does ?

OFSO (former owner of - among others - Mercedes, Range Rover and Porsche, and now very contented owner of current model Mondeo.)

Actually yes I have. :cool:

Rented one at an airport this very year.... did a 250 mile round trip. Frustrating and tiresome to drive. No doubt a car perfectly well suited for pottering around town for shopping trips.... but beyond that.

Rented a piece of German engineering at another airport.... happily drove that all the way from California to Nevada.

If I'm doing a mile munching trip, with a lot of time on motorways and country roads, I'd much rather do it in something that's the product of Germany.

(Anyway, you lot made me digress... the original post wasn't really a put down... it was a figure of speech, so to speak).

But as you keep reminding us OSFO, you're an impoverished pensioner... so you belong in a Mondeo... the car of choice for your peer group I believe. :)

The same fools who cling onto XP are the same fools who think its fine to apply security updates obtained in the darker parts of the internet. :cool:

BBC Radio 4 this morning
 

This morning on BBC R4's "Today" programme (45 mins into the podcast), they rolled out Brian Blick (?), editor-in-chief of Computer Weekly, who IIRC basically said that there's not much of an issue and the threat is low. He really underplayed the threat.
ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!

PBW

Even dark clouds have silver linings.

All it will take is for one government to block it's citizens from using the internet via an XP based system. Then this government can spread XP borne virusi throughout the rest of the world as a means of hostage to all those still using XP.

Mass suicides among the unwashed destitute are sure to follow :E