Computer Lockups
PPRuNeaholic
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Computer Lockups
First up, allow me to apologise if this issue has been raised in this forum before. As you may guess, I've only recently "discovered" this forum. I've been driven to make this post by virtue of the fact that my computer has locked-up on me twice within the last 12 hours. In fact, it seems that hardly a day goes by when I don't experience this at least once.
But the thought occurred to me that I've never kept any formal stats on it. Thus, in my brand of logic, it followed that others may well have experienced the same "phenomenon". I'm not referring here to "crashes" because that's a whole other subject area, as far as I'm concerned and I hope this thread can avoid any such references for however long it manages to run.
Anyway, the lack of stats forced me to consider how and why a lockup occurs. So, first up, let me try to define what I believe a lockup to be. In my experience, it can happen on shut-down ... ie the shutdown process simply halts at some stage. I may, or may not, get some advance warning of the occurrnce when my mouse ceases to operate, or when one or more programs are "not responding". This latter case, in my experience, occurs more as a sequential thing than an "all at once" concept - thus, one program stops responding, so you close it, only to find that another has ceased responding, and so on.
Sometimes, the very act of closing a program in these circumstances by aborting it using the Ctrl+Alt+Delete buttons (to bring up the "Close Program" window), will also result in the aborting of one or more of the programs whose icons are in the "tray".
So I began to wonder if the lockup problem manifests itself in :
(a) certain types of computers; and/or
(b) certain brands of computers; and/or
(c) certain types of operating systems; and/or
(d) certain types of processors; and/or
(e) the amount of disk space and RAM available to the operating system and how the so-called "virtual memory" is setup; and/or
(f) certain types of internet activity - ie with lots of browser windows open and checking mail at the same time; and/or
(g) certain types of computer usage - ie whether or not the a computer user is : (1) a so-called "power user" (one whole tinkers with lots of things that are not necessarily internet-related); and/or (2) a computer programmer.
(h) the use of a firewall; and/or
(i) the use of various types of e-mail protection programs - eg anti-virus, anti-spam.
All of this immediately started to seem too hard for me to work out, so I thought that I'd create a bit of a questionnaire and hope that everone who reads this thread will make the necessary contribution to it. But now the issues of privacy and security arise, so any such questionnaire probably has to be phrased such that the answers only need to be "general", rather than specific. That would probably tend to negate the value of the exercise.
Anyway, with all of that in mind, I thought that it might still be worthwhile to go ahead with the questionnaire and hope that the "general" answers may provide some useful clues that may be of benefit to all of us. I'll kick this off by setting up the questionnaire and providing the answers as they relate to me. I guess the best way for others to contribute to it would be to do a "copy and paste" of the questionnaire, obviously including my responses, then change the responses to fit your own circumstances.
At the very least, I'll find out if the questions should be different, or if additional questions need to be asked - or if the whole thing is unique to me! I'm content to let the cards fall however they must fall. I just hope that neither the questions, nor the answers, will fall foul of PPRuNe rules/standards.
QUESTIONNAIRE - COMPUTER LOCKUPS
1. Approximately how often do you experience a lockup? :
At least once per day.
2. What type of computer? (eg desktop, laptop/notebook, palm) :
Laptop/Notebook
3. What brand of computers? :
Asus (Asian brand of IBM compatible machine)
4. What type of operating system? (anything from about Windows 3.11 to XP, Mac, Linux, etc) :
Windows 98
5. What type of processor? (eg Pentium, Celeron, other?) :
Pentium 3
6. How is "virtual memory" setup? (approx disk space available AND approx total RAM) :
I have configured it so that Windows uses all the RAM (128 MB), and can use diskspace as required.
7. What are your most common types of internet activity? :
E-mail, Bulletin Boards (such as PPRuNe), some surfing. I can often have three or more browser windows open at a time.
8. Which web browser do you use (the most)? (eg Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc.) :
Internet Explorer v6
9. What type of computer usage? (eg occasional, frequent, heavy, addict, etc) :
Hmmm... first problem, but I'll live with it. I'm really not quite addicted but its fair to say that I'm quite dependent on my computer and give it heavy use.
10. Do you use a firewall? :
No
11. What types of e-mail protection programs? (eg anti-virus, anti-spam) :
Separate anti-virus and anti-spam programs.
Well, now I throw it open for everyone else to consider. I guess that I'll hear from a "modbod" or Admin quite soon, if this questionnaire is likely to cause PPRuNe any grief. Obviously, I hope it doesn't because I'm hoping that we can all learn something about the problem by means of this exercise.
But the thought occurred to me that I've never kept any formal stats on it. Thus, in my brand of logic, it followed that others may well have experienced the same "phenomenon". I'm not referring here to "crashes" because that's a whole other subject area, as far as I'm concerned and I hope this thread can avoid any such references for however long it manages to run.
Anyway, the lack of stats forced me to consider how and why a lockup occurs. So, first up, let me try to define what I believe a lockup to be. In my experience, it can happen on shut-down ... ie the shutdown process simply halts at some stage. I may, or may not, get some advance warning of the occurrnce when my mouse ceases to operate, or when one or more programs are "not responding". This latter case, in my experience, occurs more as a sequential thing than an "all at once" concept - thus, one program stops responding, so you close it, only to find that another has ceased responding, and so on.
Sometimes, the very act of closing a program in these circumstances by aborting it using the Ctrl+Alt+Delete buttons (to bring up the "Close Program" window), will also result in the aborting of one or more of the programs whose icons are in the "tray".
So I began to wonder if the lockup problem manifests itself in :
(a) certain types of computers; and/or
(b) certain brands of computers; and/or
(c) certain types of operating systems; and/or
(d) certain types of processors; and/or
(e) the amount of disk space and RAM available to the operating system and how the so-called "virtual memory" is setup; and/or
(f) certain types of internet activity - ie with lots of browser windows open and checking mail at the same time; and/or
(g) certain types of computer usage - ie whether or not the a computer user is : (1) a so-called "power user" (one whole tinkers with lots of things that are not necessarily internet-related); and/or (2) a computer programmer.
(h) the use of a firewall; and/or
(i) the use of various types of e-mail protection programs - eg anti-virus, anti-spam.
All of this immediately started to seem too hard for me to work out, so I thought that I'd create a bit of a questionnaire and hope that everone who reads this thread will make the necessary contribution to it. But now the issues of privacy and security arise, so any such questionnaire probably has to be phrased such that the answers only need to be "general", rather than specific. That would probably tend to negate the value of the exercise.
Anyway, with all of that in mind, I thought that it might still be worthwhile to go ahead with the questionnaire and hope that the "general" answers may provide some useful clues that may be of benefit to all of us. I'll kick this off by setting up the questionnaire and providing the answers as they relate to me. I guess the best way for others to contribute to it would be to do a "copy and paste" of the questionnaire, obviously including my responses, then change the responses to fit your own circumstances.
At the very least, I'll find out if the questions should be different, or if additional questions need to be asked - or if the whole thing is unique to me! I'm content to let the cards fall however they must fall. I just hope that neither the questions, nor the answers, will fall foul of PPRuNe rules/standards.
QUESTIONNAIRE - COMPUTER LOCKUPS
1. Approximately how often do you experience a lockup? :
At least once per day.
2. What type of computer? (eg desktop, laptop/notebook, palm) :
Laptop/Notebook
3. What brand of computers? :
Asus (Asian brand of IBM compatible machine)
4. What type of operating system? (anything from about Windows 3.11 to XP, Mac, Linux, etc) :
Windows 98
5. What type of processor? (eg Pentium, Celeron, other?) :
Pentium 3
6. How is "virtual memory" setup? (approx disk space available AND approx total RAM) :
I have configured it so that Windows uses all the RAM (128 MB), and can use diskspace as required.
7. What are your most common types of internet activity? :
E-mail, Bulletin Boards (such as PPRuNe), some surfing. I can often have three or more browser windows open at a time.
8. Which web browser do you use (the most)? (eg Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc.) :
Internet Explorer v6
9. What type of computer usage? (eg occasional, frequent, heavy, addict, etc) :
Hmmm... first problem, but I'll live with it. I'm really not quite addicted but its fair to say that I'm quite dependent on my computer and give it heavy use.
10. Do you use a firewall? :
No
11. What types of e-mail protection programs? (eg anti-virus, anti-spam) :
Separate anti-virus and anti-spam programs.
Well, now I throw it open for everyone else to consider. I guess that I'll hear from a "modbod" or Admin quite soon, if this questionnaire is likely to cause PPRuNe any grief. Obviously, I hope it doesn't because I'm hoping that we can all learn something about the problem by means of this exercise.
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Right click my computer and select properties or select window button + pause button Select performance tab and check system resources if very low will be susceptible to system instability.
To increase resources either use ctrl+alt+del and close any programs not in use.
If you feel brave in the run box type msconfig and enter, select the startup tab. Decide which programs you don't want to run in the background you can uncheck these and restart the computer.
Or if you are feel really really brave. Remember the programs from the startup tab which should be either listed as
a) machine run
b) machine services
This time in the run box type regedit and enter.
In the left hand pane navigate (you being a pilot should be able to do that)
your way to
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion \Run
folder in the left hand pane. Open this folder and in the RH pane the programs in a) will be listed. If not you fcuked up. Selecting and deleting each value in the RH pane will remove that program from the startup tab list.
Repeat for the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion \RunServices
folder which will be just below the run folder. This contain the programmes in b)
Doing it this way means that they are removed completely
Hope it help
PS
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ Run
folder holds the programs listed in the pre user run section on the startup tab.
To increase resources either use ctrl+alt+del and close any programs not in use.
If you feel brave in the run box type msconfig and enter, select the startup tab. Decide which programs you don't want to run in the background you can uncheck these and restart the computer.
Or if you are feel really really brave. Remember the programs from the startup tab which should be either listed as
a) machine run
b) machine services
This time in the run box type regedit and enter.
In the left hand pane navigate (you being a pilot should be able to do that)
your way toHKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion \Run
folder in the left hand pane. Open this folder and in the RH pane the programs in a) will be listed. If not you fcuked up. Selecting and deleting each value in the RH pane will remove that program from the startup tab list.
Repeat for the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion \RunServices
folder which will be just below the run folder. This contain the programmes in b)
Doing it this way means that they are removed completely
Hope it help
PS
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ Run
folder holds the programs listed in the pre user run section on the startup tab.
Last edited by Engineer; 23rd Jul 2002 at 19:51.
PPRuNeaholic
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BOAC ... just under 6,600MB of free disk space at present. How much RAM would you recommend?
Engineer ... thanks for that. I wasn't feeling "very very brave", so have left the registry settings alone. However, I used the first bit of advice to get rid of a few background programs, though they're not really essential anyway and I have little use for them.
Will post later, to advise results. Will also see what I can do abou increasing RAM.
Engineer ... thanks for that. I wasn't feeling "very very brave", so have left the registry settings alone. However, I used the first bit of advice to get rid of a few background programs, though they're not really essential anyway and I have little use for them.
Will post later, to advise results. Will also see what I can do abou increasing RAM.
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OzExpat
Trouble with selective startup is when you reboot a little box keeps telling you that you are using this process. But editing the registry eliminates this. If you are unsure about editing the registry then you can export the folder and then import it later
To export/backup part of the registry to a text file
To import the backup
BTW 128M is only low if you want to run a lot of open programs in the background. IE6 is a big user of resources and if you then decide to open another large user like Paint Shop Pro or MS Word your resources take a bit of a hammering. But as stated before check your resources on the performance tab and if you are below 30% IMHO then start thinking about closing down unwanted programmes. A bit like an aircraft onboard emergency the last thing you want is trivial things taking up some of your resources degrades your performance to deal with the more serious problems
Trouble with selective startup is when you reboot a little box keeps telling you that you are using this process. But editing the registry eliminates this. If you are unsure about editing the registry then you can export the folder and then import it later
To export/backup part of the registry to a text file
- Click the folder to export only the contents of that folder i.e run or run services
- On the Registry menu, click Export Registry File
- Browse to the location where you want to store the exported file
- In the File name box, type a name for the new file.
- Exporting saves all or part of the registry to a .reg file, which serves as a backup copy.
- You can use any text editor to edit the .reg files created by exporting.
To import the backup
- On the Registry menu, click Import Registry File.
- Browse to the file you want to import, and then click Open.
BTW 128M is only low if you want to run a lot of open programs in the background. IE6 is a big user of resources and if you then decide to open another large user like Paint Shop Pro or MS Word your resources take a bit of a hammering. But as stated before check your resources on the performance tab and if you are below 30% IMHO then start thinking about closing down unwanted programmes. A bit like an aircraft onboard emergency the last thing you want is trivial things taking up some of your resources degrades your performance to deal with the more serious problems
Last edited by Engineer; 24th Jul 2002 at 06:43.
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Engineer ... thanks for that extra. I've just looked in the relevant Registry directories and the background tasks that I've taken out do not appear at all. Interestingly, after rebooting, I did not see "a little box keeps telling you that you are using this process".
I don't have much reason to have MS Word open when I'm online, tho it HAS happened. More likely to have Excel open, plus a few browser windows, plus my e-mail program (Eudora), plus my anti-spam program. I haven't had a lockup today - yet - but that's probably only because I haven't used my computer very much today...
Shall make enquiries tomorrow about increasing the RAM.
I don't have much reason to have MS Word open when I'm online, tho it HAS happened. More likely to have Excel open, plus a few browser windows, plus my e-mail program (Eudora), plus my anti-spam program. I haven't had a lockup today - yet - but that's probably only because I haven't used my computer very much today...
Shall make enquiries tomorrow about increasing the RAM.
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QUESTIONNAIRE - COMPUTER LOCKUPS
1. Approximately how often do you experience a lockup? :
Rarely and only when I've overloaded the pc by having loads of apps running and using the internet at the same time.
2. What type of computer? (eg desktop, laptop/notebook, palm) :
Desk top and Notebook
3. What brand of computers? :
PC worlds finest 2 year old advent. Plus 3y old Compaq laptop.
4. What type of operating system? (anything from about Windows 3.11 to XP, Mac, Linux, etc) :
Windows 98
Started with ME,2000 then moved on to XP
5. What type of processor? (eg Pentium, Celeron, other?) :
AMD (aledgedly faster and cheaper than equivilent Pentiums)
6. How is "virtual memory" setup? (approx disk space available AND approx total RAM) :
Generaly allow windows to handle it (can't remember if that option is available for 98)
7. What are your most common types of internet activity? :
E-mail, Bulletin Boards (such as PPRuNe), some surfing. I can often have dozens of browser windows open at a time ie after doing a search for something i'll open anything that looks interesting then check it out when it's all downloaded.
8. Which web browser do you use (the most)?
IE 5/6, tried Nutscrape but never got on with the later versions. Neoplanet was fun for a while but I think it was just a version of either of the above with a different front end.
9. What type of computer usage? (eg occasional, frequent, heavy, addict, etc) :
Frequent... Internet, Word/Excel docs, CorrellApps and Solitare :o. Refuse to do any banking though, don't trust the internet that much.
10. Do you use a firewall? :
Only the inbuilt one on XP, tried Zone Alarm which I'm sure is good but it gave me problems so I will try that a bit later.
11. What types of e-mail protection programs? (eg anti-virus, anti-spam) :
AVG and AddAware. Had MacAfee once, it made a great coffee cup coaster.
I am fortunate enough to have several puter gurus in my circle of friends including a MS employee. They were always able to sort out any problems I had, but one in particular sorted out all problems once and for all by telling me his philosphy.
Back up anything important.
Don't fiddle/Don't fix what ain't broke.
Use add and remove progs to uninstall.
Don't install anything unless it is definately compatible with your operating system.
Formating the hard drive is usualy quicker.
Use the system restore disk if you or windows don't have the appropriate drivers.
But clean installs with MS disks are generaly better.
McAfee is the root of all evil (that ones mine).
I had several problems with my lap top until I took that onboard but since going from 98 (with system restore disk) to ME full version I have had no major problems.
This set of 'rules' may not work for everyone but I'm sure would reduce alot of problems.
1. Approximately how often do you experience a lockup? :
Rarely and only when I've overloaded the pc by having loads of apps running and using the internet at the same time.
2. What type of computer? (eg desktop, laptop/notebook, palm) :
Desk top and Notebook
3. What brand of computers? :
PC worlds finest
2 year old advent. Plus 3y old Compaq laptop.4. What type of operating system? (anything from about Windows 3.11 to XP, Mac, Linux, etc) :
Windows 98
Started with ME,2000 then moved on to XP
5. What type of processor? (eg Pentium, Celeron, other?) :
AMD (aledgedly faster and cheaper than equivilent Pentiums)
6. How is "virtual memory" setup? (approx disk space available AND approx total RAM) :
Generaly allow windows to handle it (can't remember if that option is available for 98)
7. What are your most common types of internet activity? :
E-mail, Bulletin Boards (such as PPRuNe), some surfing. I can often have dozens of browser windows open at a time ie after doing a search for something i'll open anything that looks interesting then check it out when it's all downloaded.
8. Which web browser do you use (the most)?
IE 5/6, tried Nutscrape but never got on with the later versions. Neoplanet was fun for a while but I think it was just a version of either of the above with a different front end.
9. What type of computer usage? (eg occasional, frequent, heavy, addict, etc) :
Frequent... Internet, Word/Excel docs, CorrellApps and Solitare :o. Refuse to do any banking though, don't trust the internet that much.
10. Do you use a firewall? :
Only the inbuilt one on XP, tried Zone Alarm which I'm sure is good but it gave me problems so I will try that a bit later.
11. What types of e-mail protection programs? (eg anti-virus, anti-spam) :
AVG and AddAware. Had MacAfee once, it made a great coffee cup coaster.
I am fortunate enough to have several puter gurus in my circle of friends including a MS employee. They were always able to sort out any problems I had, but one in particular sorted out all problems once and for all by telling me his philosphy.
Back up anything important.
Don't fiddle/Don't fix what ain't broke.
Use add and remove progs to uninstall.
Don't install anything unless it is definately compatible with your operating system.
Formating the hard drive is usualy quicker.
Use the system restore disk if you or windows don't have the appropriate drivers.
But clean installs with MS disks are generaly better.
McAfee is the root of all evil (that ones mine).
I had several problems with my lap top until I took that onboard but since going from 98 (with system restore disk) to ME full version I have had no major problems.
This set of 'rules' may not work for everyone but I'm sure would reduce alot of problems.
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I run 2 Dell computers, a P1 with 32 Mb RAM and a PIII with 128MB RAM. Both are running W98. I find after about 12 months they start to lock up with increasing frequency so I format the hard drive and re install windows and programs I use frequently.
Some may find this a drastic step but I have found it a very effective way of speeding up my machine. As I run a network it is easy to save the data to the other machine whilst I reinstall the software but a CD writer could perform a similar function.
Some may find this a drastic step but I have found it a very effective way of speeding up my machine. As I run a network it is easy to save the data to the other machine whilst I reinstall the software but a CD writer could perform a similar function.
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Tinker ... thanks very much for that. I may have an "architecture" problem with this laptop. Interesting to see that you've had problems with ZoneAlarm. I did too so, after the trial period, I removed it from the computer - using the Add/Remove programs window, of course! 
I used to have a Compaq Pressario, a couple years ago. It, too, would lock up on me, but not quite as frequently. I'm pretty sure it only had 128 MB of RAM too, which is another reason why my current problem may have more to do with the architecture of this laptop than anything else.
Don't seem to get anything like the same sort of lockup problem on a desktop PC, so maybe its something related to laptops only?
And, yes, I follow all those rules - except the one about McAfee. On every laptop I've ever had, its worked well for me. I changed to Norton some years ago and started to get software conflicts that increased the number of lockups. Didn't realise that Norton was the problem until I started asking around. Went back to McAfee as soon as I found out, and have not had any problems that I can attribute to it.
Anyway, I greatly appreciate your input.
Buttons ... thanks for the offer mate. Just wish I'd known about it sooner.
Have just arranged to get an extra 256 MB, which is as far as this machine's RAM can be expanded.
Green Bottle ... I don't have the luxury of a network to be able to take that option, but I've thought about taking that drastic step a few times.
I used to have a Compaq Pressario, a couple years ago. It, too, would lock up on me, but not quite as frequently. I'm pretty sure it only had 128 MB of RAM too, which is another reason why my current problem may have more to do with the architecture of this laptop than anything else.
Don't seem to get anything like the same sort of lockup problem on a desktop PC, so maybe its something related to laptops only?
And, yes, I follow all those rules - except the one about McAfee. On every laptop I've ever had, its worked well for me. I changed to Norton some years ago and started to get software conflicts that increased the number of lockups. Didn't realise that Norton was the problem until I started asking around. Went back to McAfee as soon as I found out, and have not had any problems that I can attribute to it.
Anyway, I greatly appreciate your input.
Buttons ... thanks for the offer mate. Just wish I'd known about it sooner.
Have just arranged to get an extra 256 MB, which is as far as this machine's RAM can be expanded.Green Bottle ... I don't have the luxury of a network to be able to take that option, but I've thought about taking that drastic step a few times.
