Thinking of buying MacBook Pro
Plastic PPRuNer
"But yes, it did occur to me when writing my previous post, that for the average Joe, perhaps SSD based swap space would not be the end of the world. But I've never tried it so I can't condone it, hence my (perhaps) "old school" suggestion of just boosting RAM."
I don't think it's "old school" at all, just sensible. Swap files are really a hangover from the old days of limited RAM and are only retained for compatibility's sake. It is far cheaper (and more reliable) to take your RAM up to 16gb or more (you don't HAVE to buy expensive Apple RAM - which is just rebranded something else with the price doubled) rather than complicate matters by adding a more expensive SSD to assign for your swap partition/files.
Remember the days when applications used to switch overlay files in and out? I do!
Dear Lord, I'm agreeing with mixture...must take a couple of aspirins and lie down!
Mac
I don't think it's "old school" at all, just sensible. Swap files are really a hangover from the old days of limited RAM and are only retained for compatibility's sake. It is far cheaper (and more reliable) to take your RAM up to 16gb or more (you don't HAVE to buy expensive Apple RAM - which is just rebranded something else with the price doubled) rather than complicate matters by adding a more expensive SSD to assign for your swap partition/files.
Remember the days when applications used to switch overlay files in and out? I do!
Dear Lord, I'm agreeing with mixture...must take a couple of aspirins and lie down!
Mac
Plastic PPRuNer
True alas BN, I was thinking about the last generation of MacBooks, laptops generally and big fat do-it-yourself desktop Intel/AMD mobos.
AFAIK there's no way of adding another SSD to the new MacBooks and I'm not even sure you can change the one that's factory fitted either.
Most new laptops fall pretty low on the iFixit scale these days - having been mostly assembled by machine in cleanrooms all they need is a little oriental wageslave to irretrievably hot-glue the last bits together.
The OS'es are getting a bit strict too - I can't upgrade my new'ish Mac Mini to Yosemite from Mavericks because it won't TRIM my added-on non-Apple Samsung SSD.
Buy it, use it and if anything goes wrong or a new OS version is incompatible just bin it and buy another.
So it goes...
Mac
I did love the days when you could tinker with the OS and access the bare-metal from programs. Writing self-modifying code that changed the stack/registers as it ran was sort of fun. You could do supposedly impossible things!
Stupid old fart that I am....
AFAIK there's no way of adding another SSD to the new MacBooks and I'm not even sure you can change the one that's factory fitted either.
Most new laptops fall pretty low on the iFixit scale these days - having been mostly assembled by machine in cleanrooms all they need is a little oriental wageslave to irretrievably hot-glue the last bits together.
The OS'es are getting a bit strict too - I can't upgrade my new'ish Mac Mini to Yosemite from Mavericks because it won't TRIM my added-on non-Apple Samsung SSD.
Buy it, use it and if anything goes wrong or a new OS version is incompatible just bin it and buy another.
So it goes...
Mac
I did love the days when you could tinker with the OS and access the bare-metal from programs. Writing self-modifying code that changed the stack/registers as it ran was sort of fun. You could do supposedly impossible things!
Stupid old fart that I am....
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The OS'es are getting a bit strict too - I can't upgrade my new'ish Mac Mini to Yosemite from Mavericks because it won't TRIM my added-on non-Apple Samsung SSD.
There are many ways to skin a cat, TRIM is only one of them.
As it happens, I upgraded an old MacBook to Samsung SSD for a friend recently and it works perfectly fine.
Plastic PPRuNer
Mix - The problem from what I can gather) is that if you are running a system with TRIM Enabler and you upgrade your Mac to OS X Yosemite, your machine will not boot after the install finishes due to the new Kext signing requirement in Yosemite – all kexts (drivers) now need to be approved/signed by Apple.nforces kext
It IS possible to disable kext signing (a very good idea) in PRAM and allow 3rd party TRIM to work but this seems to me like a retrograde step. If for some reason PRAM has to be reset, the enforcement of kext signing (and this is a global setting) is reset and you have a machine that won't boot. Yosemite only recognises Apple and OWC drives for TRIM purposes.
I stuffed a 500gb Samsung 840 Pro in my recent MacMini to work as the System disk and kept the original HDD as my Data disk (as you know, I prefer to keep System and Data physical drives separate). Yes, I know that TRIM may be largely unnecessary with modern SDDs but I don't want to upgrade and end up with an unbootable machine or an SSD that gets slower and slower!
I understand that there are 3rd party apps like Cindori that claim to overcome the problem but I have to have a stable office systemthat will run various VMs as well.
I suppose I could junk it and just buy a whole new MacMini to the specs I want from the local Mac shop but that would squeeze my budget a bit - particularly as the MM is only a couple of years old. I could always find a use for the old one.
Currently everything works fine with Mavericks and 16gb RAM.
Your advice would be welcome.
Thx
Mac
It IS possible to disable kext signing (a very good idea) in PRAM and allow 3rd party TRIM to work but this seems to me like a retrograde step. If for some reason PRAM has to be reset, the enforcement of kext signing (and this is a global setting) is reset and you have a machine that won't boot. Yosemite only recognises Apple and OWC drives for TRIM purposes.
I stuffed a 500gb Samsung 840 Pro in my recent MacMini to work as the System disk and kept the original HDD as my Data disk (as you know, I prefer to keep System and Data physical drives separate). Yes, I know that TRIM may be largely unnecessary with modern SDDs but I don't want to upgrade and end up with an unbootable machine or an SSD that gets slower and slower!
I understand that there are 3rd party apps like Cindori that claim to overcome the problem but I have to have a stable office systemthat will run various VMs as well.
I suppose I could junk it and just buy a whole new MacMini to the specs I want from the local Mac shop but that would squeeze my budget a bit - particularly as the MM is only a couple of years old. I could always find a use for the old one.
Currently everything works fine with Mavericks and 16gb RAM.
Your advice would be welcome.
Thx
Mac
Last edited by Mac the Knife; 15th Jun 2015 at 19:30.
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It IS possible to disable kext signing (a very good idea)
Disabling kext signing is a stupid idea of the highest proportions.
Kext signing is there as a valuable security barrier.
Yes, I know that TRIM may be largely unnecessary with modern SDDs but I don't want to upgrade and end up with an unbootable machine or an SSD that gets slower and slower!
If you are really worried about not having TRIM, then perhaps you should just get yourself a 15k rpm spindle drive instead. That should give you a half-decent performance boost.
Alternativley, when I was doing some research, there was a Swiss (I think) manufacturer who were making SSD drives that had apparently TRIM support under kext OS X. They were a bit cagey about how they achieved it, so I didn't proceed any further, but if you want to persist with a TRIM enabled SSD, they might be worth a look. I will update this post if I remember the name.
Update:
angelbird "SSD wrk for Mac" .... but as I said, not a recommendation, just a name I spotted during research. And its an Austrian, not Swiss company.
Last edited by mixture; 16th Jun 2015 at 08:05.
Plastic PPRuNer
Hallo mix!
Of course I made a typing mistake
The "not" got lost in a bit of editing - it should have been (NOT a very good idea), since it is in fact an extremely BAD idea!
OTOH Mavericks can allow unsigned kexts and AFAIK this has not been a major attack vector (though naturally it potentially is and may get worse).
Yes, I did come across Angelbird and their claims - unless they have managed to get a signed kext from Apple, they've may have found an unofficial hack (never a good idea in a commercial product).
Many thanks
Mac
"If you are really worried about not having TRIM, then perhaps you should just get yourself a 15k rpm spindle drive instead. That should give you a half-decent performance boost."
Actually this is a very good idea! Only occasionally do I do much major disk intensive work and I'm wasting important surgical energy on worrying about **** like this.
[BTW, if OWC SDD drives can implement TRIM without problems in Yosemite then they probably have a signed kext from Apple (maybe Apple use OWC drives!). Or maybe OWC drives implement TRIM internally?]
{Just on the side; Samsung could well afford to license a properly signed and verified kext from Apple to allow TRIM on their drives. Do their controllers have a compatibility problem at some level with Yosemite or is Apple just being difficult?}
Hamba khale!
Of course I made a typing mistake
The "not" got lost in a bit of editing - it should have been (NOT a very good idea), since it is in fact an extremely BAD idea!
OTOH Mavericks can allow unsigned kexts and AFAIK this has not been a major attack vector (though naturally it potentially is and may get worse).
Yes, I did come across Angelbird and their claims - unless they have managed to get a signed kext from Apple, they've may have found an unofficial hack (never a good idea in a commercial product).
Many thanks
Mac
"If you are really worried about not having TRIM, then perhaps you should just get yourself a 15k rpm spindle drive instead. That should give you a half-decent performance boost."
Actually this is a very good idea! Only occasionally do I do much major disk intensive work and I'm wasting important surgical energy on worrying about **** like this.
[BTW, if OWC SDD drives can implement TRIM without problems in Yosemite then they probably have a signed kext from Apple (maybe Apple use OWC drives!). Or maybe OWC drives implement TRIM internally?]
{Just on the side; Samsung could well afford to license a properly signed and verified kext from Apple to allow TRIM on their drives. Do their controllers have a compatibility problem at some level with Yosemite or is Apple just being difficult?}
Hamba khale!
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SSDs are great, but really only worth worrying about for laptops where their inherent robustness is worth it.
At least that's my view on them. I guess if I spent my days doing something that hammered the drive then I'd think again, but for me, most of the stuff I do benefits from more RAM rather than a faster hard drive.
I think Apple might use Samsung at storage chip level rather than drive, but I can't remember it that's in computers or iPhone/iPads.
Rumour has it a trimforce command has appeared in the developer version of the new version of OS X. Whether it stays there in the final version remains to be seen, but it would answer the prayers of those who really want TRIM.
At least that's my view on them. I guess if I spent my days doing something that hammered the drive then I'd think again, but for me, most of the stuff I do benefits from more RAM rather than a faster hard drive.
I think Apple might use Samsung at storage chip level rather than drive, but I can't remember it that's in computers or iPhone/iPads.
Rumour has it a trimforce command has appeared in the developer version of the new version of OS X. Whether it stays there in the final version remains to be seen, but it would answer the prayers of those who really want TRIM.
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I couldn't justify the cost of a MBPro spec'd to the maximum SSD capability. I had a requirement for terabytes of VMs which not even the highest spec'd MBPro would solve, and even if it could all this great SSD performance would be wasted.
The solution was to work a little smarter and create a NAS out of my old Windows desktop PC. For travel I brought a 1TB Toshiba portable drive for about $50 which I use like a big USB stick.
Keeping my laptop "thin" in data seems to be working quite well for me, another bonus has been that all my other old laptops ('bout time I donated them) can also access the same data the same way.
The solution was to work a little smarter and create a NAS out of my old Windows desktop PC. For travel I brought a 1TB Toshiba portable drive for about $50 which I use like a big USB stick.
Keeping my laptop "thin" in data seems to be working quite well for me, another bonus has been that all my other old laptops ('bout time I donated them) can also access the same data the same way.
Plastic PPRuNer
FreeNAS - FreeNAS Project - Open Source Storage - FreeNAS Project is your friend.
Build your own NAS out of unused junk - it is far more secure, configurable, stable and (depending on your hardware) fast than just about anything you can buy.
You will, unfortunately have to know something about hardware and RTFM, but it is now far easier to set up than its earlier incarnations.
Mac
Build your own NAS out of unused junk - it is far more secure, configurable, stable and (depending on your hardware) fast than just about anything you can buy.
You will, unfortunately have to know something about hardware and RTFM, but it is now far easier to set up than its earlier incarnations.
Mac
