I think I want to update my PC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever someone will pay me to do fun stuff
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think I want to update my PC
Despite offering advice or wisdom on IT things from time to time, which some people seem to value, I now seek a bit of advice from people who are familiar with the current crop of PC processors.
I am thinking that the time is nearing for the 2 to 3 yearly update to my computer! A few things are slowing down (okay, they're probably not slowing down but I'm finding waiting for them a little frustrating) and I feel like treating myself to a new toy.
I'm quite happy to build the thing myself but I am looking views on the current range of i7 processors.
I am considering one of the 47xx models to replace my current i7 920. I recognise that the current machine is no slouch and the only justification is to save a few seconds here and there and to have a new toy. If I do the update, the 920 already has a new home.
Does anyone have any experience with the 47xx processors? The performance graphs suggest a significant improvement in number crunching speed but I wonder how much benefit I would get for day-to-day work.
Routinely I am working with large graphics - both hi-res bitmaps and vectors, and large, sometimes very large, text-based documents, and some things do end up waiting for the processor to catch up.
Any comments or suggestions about motherboards (my preferred brand is Asus) or chipset also be gratefully received.
I am thinking that the time is nearing for the 2 to 3 yearly update to my computer! A few things are slowing down (okay, they're probably not slowing down but I'm finding waiting for them a little frustrating) and I feel like treating myself to a new toy.
I'm quite happy to build the thing myself but I am looking views on the current range of i7 processors.
I am considering one of the 47xx models to replace my current i7 920. I recognise that the current machine is no slouch and the only justification is to save a few seconds here and there and to have a new toy. If I do the update, the 920 already has a new home.
Does anyone have any experience with the 47xx processors? The performance graphs suggest a significant improvement in number crunching speed but I wonder how much benefit I would get for day-to-day work.
Routinely I am working with large graphics - both hi-res bitmaps and vectors, and large, sometimes very large, text-based documents, and some things do end up waiting for the processor to catch up.
Any comments or suggestions about motherboards (my preferred brand is Asus) or chipset also be gratefully received.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't know about the 47xx, but I've got a 4960HQ in my current road-warrior laptop and its bloody awesome, I struggle to make it sweat despite running multiple VMWare instances and various copies of Adobe's finest ... right now its sitting 80% idle !
P.S. What are you doing to your current i7 that's causing you problems ? For your average home punter, any half-decent i7 should see you through to a 5 year lifecycle.... are you sure its the CPU and not something else that's slowing you down ?
P.S.P.S. I see you said "Routinely I am working with large graphics - both hi-res bitmaps and vectors, and large, sometimes very large, text-based documents" .... if you're using current versions of Adobe Creative Cloud and a supported GPU, you shouldn't really see much processor impact from Adobe graphics processing because they've put a lot of work into farming all that out to the GPU rather than using the CPU like they used to.
As for large text documents, what software are you using ? Have you tried alternative software ? If may just be very poorly coded text editing software with poor memory management routines... certainly stuff like Adobe Indesign can cope with large documents with aplomb. Microsoft Office on the other hand is just shocking when it comes to large document memory management ....
P.S. What are you doing to your current i7 that's causing you problems ? For your average home punter, any half-decent i7 should see you through to a 5 year lifecycle.... are you sure its the CPU and not something else that's slowing you down ?
P.S.P.S. I see you said "Routinely I am working with large graphics - both hi-res bitmaps and vectors, and large, sometimes very large, text-based documents" .... if you're using current versions of Adobe Creative Cloud and a supported GPU, you shouldn't really see much processor impact from Adobe graphics processing because they've put a lot of work into farming all that out to the GPU rather than using the CPU like they used to.
As for large text documents, what software are you using ? Have you tried alternative software ? If may just be very poorly coded text editing software with poor memory management routines... certainly stuff like Adobe Indesign can cope with large documents with aplomb. Microsoft Office on the other hand is just shocking when it comes to large document memory management ....
Last edited by mixture; 10th Nov 2014 at 22:45.
LookingForAJob
I've got a new desktop with an i7-4790K - it goes like lightning. Probably helped by the Crucial M550 SSD. The SSD helps it start in 22 seconds! - very happy with both.
As to the processor here's what Belarc Advisor reports:
4.00 gigahertz Intel Core i7-4790K
256 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
8192 kilobyte tertiary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (4 total)
I've got a new desktop with an i7-4790K - it goes like lightning. Probably helped by the Crucial M550 SSD. The SSD helps it start in 22 seconds! - very happy with both.
As to the processor here's what Belarc Advisor reports:
4.00 gigahertz Intel Core i7-4790K
256 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
8192 kilobyte tertiary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (4 total)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
8192 kilobyte tertiary memory cache
Multi-core (4 total)
Multi-core (4 total)
As you said, SSD helps.
As does gobs of RAM... since RAM is almost literally cheap as chips, its silly to skimp on it.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Aussieland
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi, as posted above and SSD is a wise investment, it will give you the single biggest emprovement in speed and response time of any upgrade. You would notice a big improvement even with your current system. I would go with Intel, Samsung or Crucial as they ( especially Intel ) have the lowest return rates.
If you do decide to upgrade your system the i7-4970k and the Z97 chipset will serve you well. The Z79 chipset has more USB3 and SATA3 inputs that your current system.If your not overclocking your CPU, you could save a few bucks and go for the non "K" version of the CPUs as the only difference is the "K" version has an unlocked multiplier for overclocking. And as above don't skimp on RAM, a minimum of 8GB @ 1600Mhz or higher.
Cheers
If you do decide to upgrade your system the i7-4970k and the Z97 chipset will serve you well. The Z79 chipset has more USB3 and SATA3 inputs that your current system.If your not overclocking your CPU, you could save a few bucks and go for the non "K" version of the CPUs as the only difference is the "K" version has an unlocked multiplier for overclocking. And as above don't skimp on RAM, a minimum of 8GB @ 1600Mhz or higher.
Cheers
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The newest i7 I have in my environment is a couple of 3615QMs. They are jolly quick, especially compared to the 2520M in my laptop which is starting to feel a bit sluggish now... with 16gb and an SSD, it's become the bottleneck.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever someone will pay me to do fun stuff
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to all for the feedback.
Goes like lightning sounds fun to me. Planning to port other bits of hardware to the new mobo if I do it - already got an SSD, which made a huge difference. Likewise, 12GB of RAM - can't recall the speed rating off-hand but might be something to think about upgrading also.
@mix
In truth, there's nothing in the current set up that is really causing me problems. Occasionally things are slow enough that I wait, some of the graphics are PSDs running to several hundred MB with many layers - final image may get flattened and JPGed but the source images are not mine and they have to stay in their original glory in the master file so that different layers can be used or hidden in the final image. For vector stuff I tend to use CorelDRAW, I prefer it to other options and know it well but sometimes I end up waiting as it redraws some very complex graphics, typically that have been imported from PDFs, but from experience it is rather buggy and I'm sure it's not the most efficiently coded program. Final challenging task, the long documents - for text-based docs I prefer to use FrameMaker but for shorter ones or where there are plenty of graphics I will use InDesign. Some of the FM books run to between 2 and 3 thousand pages - fortunately I only publish, others do the writing!
The urge to get a new toy at the moment is buoyed by a bit of money that got earmarked for IT in a business plan and hasn't been used rather than any real need - but what's wrong with boys' toys?
Goes like lightning sounds fun to me. Planning to port other bits of hardware to the new mobo if I do it - already got an SSD, which made a huge difference. Likewise, 12GB of RAM - can't recall the speed rating off-hand but might be something to think about upgrading also.
@mix
In truth, there's nothing in the current set up that is really causing me problems. Occasionally things are slow enough that I wait, some of the graphics are PSDs running to several hundred MB with many layers - final image may get flattened and JPGed but the source images are not mine and they have to stay in their original glory in the master file so that different layers can be used or hidden in the final image. For vector stuff I tend to use CorelDRAW, I prefer it to other options and know it well but sometimes I end up waiting as it redraws some very complex graphics, typically that have been imported from PDFs, but from experience it is rather buggy and I'm sure it's not the most efficiently coded program. Final challenging task, the long documents - for text-based docs I prefer to use FrameMaker but for shorter ones or where there are plenty of graphics I will use InDesign. Some of the FM books run to between 2 and 3 thousand pages - fortunately I only publish, others do the writing!
The urge to get a new toy at the moment is buoyed by a bit of money that got earmarked for IT in a business plan and hasn't been used rather than any real need - but what's wrong with boys' toys?
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've got a 4960HQ in my current road-warrior laptop
I'll be purchasing VMWare 10 (upgrading to 11) shortly and that has triggered a reason to refresh my WinXP 32bit based hardware. Not keen on another Windoze box and being put through the M$ hoops (even have an old 64-bit second hand laptop running Win7 that never gets used). Am hoping your machine is a Mac.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am hoping your machine is a Mac.
(edit: details removed as it seems with hindsight that cattletruck was just looking for an opportunity to Apple bash rather than being genuinely interested)
Last edited by mixture; 15th Nov 2014 at 11:31.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 62
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CHromeBOOK ACER
4Get the laptops !!
Running a Amazing and Fast running ChromeBOOK Acer C720 >>
Luvv it from the start >> 4get IOS WINDOWS or whatever !!
This is the future ....startup whitin 7 seconds and just continue where you were when you closed it.
TOPPPPPP
Running a Amazing and Fast running ChromeBOOK Acer C720 >>
Luvv it from the start >> 4get IOS WINDOWS or whatever !!
This is the future ....startup whitin 7 seconds and just continue where you were when you closed it.
TOPPPPPP
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Running a Amazing and Fast running ChromeBOOK Acer C720
Intel Celeron is cheap, and erm, that's about it .... pretty much everyone I know who bought Celeron ends up regretting it later down the line.
The rule of thumb is you NEVER buy Celeron unless you absolutely cannot afford to buy anything else !
startup whitin 7 seconds and just continue where you were when you closed it.
And as for "just continue where you were when you closed it" .... it seems Capt Flinstone has just discovered Sleep mode !
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed it is.
.For me it wasn't XP but 64bit computing that is the reason fo refreshing my hardware. I'm confident I can run my entire current WinXP setup entirely in VMWare (Note: VMWare 11 will only be release for 64 bit versions only - hence the need to change).
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that Mixture, I'm off to my local trusted dealer soon to get him to sell me my 4th computer along the lines you mentioned above .
Last edited by mixture; 15th Nov 2014 at 11:32.
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are they still selling Celeron processors? I've not had one since the first one ... years ago!
My two-year-old is still faster than I can think at doing all I ask of it. The big improvement was the SSD. Curiously, the motherboard wouldn't "see" the SSD at switch-on until I put in a little gadget to delay power to the SSD for about half a second. Intel and the motherboard manufacturer couldn't explain it, but since it works I'm not bothered.
My two-year-old is still faster than I can think at doing all I ask of it. The big improvement was the SSD. Curiously, the motherboard wouldn't "see" the SSD at switch-on until I put in a little gadget to delay power to the SSD for about half a second. Intel and the motherboard manufacturer couldn't explain it, but since it works I'm not bothered.
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Went to see my local dealer this morning only to find out they stopped selling Mac laptops and desktops (although they still sell ipads and other Apple personal devices). Asked why and was told there was no money in it for them as Apple are reigning in there distributor list and want you to buy those items from their own Apple stores. They do however offer a repair service for them.
My local dealer talked about Apple becoming a closed ecosystem, and that reminded me of iTunes which is a concept I've hated since it was invented and seemed to be getting worse last time I used an Apple which was about 5 years ago.
But all systems have some negatives about them and I still remain open to the MacBook Pro. He suggested I lease one for a short while and see if it fulfills my requirements as he has seen a fair few disappointed customers go from pc to mac then back to pc - but then again his business does see a fair few customers period so it may not be representative.
So tomorrow or next week I'm off to an Apple store to battle against the hoards of starry eyed consumers whose parents have indicated fulfilling their Christmas wishes, so that I can speak to an Apple fanboi just to cop an earful of linguistic shyte more suited for pimply teenagers - why does it have to be like that Apple
My local dealer talked about Apple becoming a closed ecosystem, and that reminded me of iTunes which is a concept I've hated since it was invented and seemed to be getting worse last time I used an Apple which was about 5 years ago.
But all systems have some negatives about them and I still remain open to the MacBook Pro. He suggested I lease one for a short while and see if it fulfills my requirements as he has seen a fair few disappointed customers go from pc to mac then back to pc - but then again his business does see a fair few customers period so it may not be representative.
So tomorrow or next week I'm off to an Apple store to battle against the hoards of starry eyed consumers whose parents have indicated fulfilling their Christmas wishes, so that I can speak to an Apple fanboi just to cop an earful of linguistic shyte more suited for pimply teenagers - why does it have to be like that Apple
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cattletruck,
I don't give a flying toss if you'd rather own a PC ....but don't waste my time asking for suggestions on Apple and pretending you're interested, and then just turn the tables and come back ranting and raving like an Apple bashing loonie .....
Really, just spare us the smoke & mirrors....if you want to buy a PC, then fine... go buy a damn PC, I really don't care ..... what I do mind, however, is unsubstantiated Apple bashing that is completely unsupported by any factual evidence....
That is utter bull ****e.
The fact is that over the past 10 years, IT has become heavily commoditised. Margins have shrunk on pretty much everything ... on the sort of stuff the home-user buys, typical margin is 5% ..... if you're very lucky you might find one or two products in the 8-10% range, but 99.999% are hovering around 5%.
Business equipment has a larger variety of margins... but its on the sort of stuff that your home-user would NEVER buy (e.g. large network switches etc.).... business desktop/laptop type IT is also on tight 5% margins.
There is also no restrictions set by Apple on distribution ....any reseller can buy their equipment through distribution.
So your dealer is spinning utter nonsense. Unless you are doing large volumes, selling IT hardware is not a place you'll make money.
No it is not a closed ecosystem, that is also bull crap.
Apple openly publish information on their developer APIs, so they're no different than Microsoft.... infact, in many ways their APIs and level of information they provide is miles ahead of Microsoft.
OS X is also based on BSD, so you can write and compile software as you would for Linux/Unix using many of the same low-level programming libraries.... so you don't even have to use Apple's high-level APIs if you don't want to.
Xcode is freely available for developers to code, compile and test software for OS X and iOS. Hell, you don't even have use Xcode... you can use a text editor and use gcc etc. to compile yourself on the command line.
You can run unsigned software on OS X without problems, you only need to sign software if you intend to distribute it to third parties (well, actually, you don't even need to do that.... but it does stop a couple of warning dialogue boxes coming up when you first install the software ).
You don't have to buy software through Apple... e.g. all of Adobe's software is directly distributed and not distributed through Apple App Store / iTunes channels !
For a small annual fee ($80 or something), you can sign your own apps and run them on third-party iPhones and distribute them on iTunes if you so wish.
Also with VMWare on OS X, you can run Windows and Linux to your hearts desire !
People who talk about Apple being a closed ecosystem have absolutley no clue about what comes out of their gobs.
I don't give a flying toss if you'd rather own a PC ....but don't waste my time asking for suggestions on Apple and pretending you're interested, and then just turn the tables and come back ranting and raving like an Apple bashing loonie .....
Really, just spare us the smoke & mirrors....if you want to buy a PC, then fine... go buy a damn PC, I really don't care ..... what I do mind, however, is unsubstantiated Apple bashing that is completely unsupported by any factual evidence....
Asked why and was told there was no money in it for them as Apple are reigning in there distributor list and want you to buy those items from their own Apple stores. They do however offer a repair service for them.
The fact is that over the past 10 years, IT has become heavily commoditised. Margins have shrunk on pretty much everything ... on the sort of stuff the home-user buys, typical margin is 5% ..... if you're very lucky you might find one or two products in the 8-10% range, but 99.999% are hovering around 5%.
Business equipment has a larger variety of margins... but its on the sort of stuff that your home-user would NEVER buy (e.g. large network switches etc.).... business desktop/laptop type IT is also on tight 5% margins.
There is also no restrictions set by Apple on distribution ....any reseller can buy their equipment through distribution.
So your dealer is spinning utter nonsense. Unless you are doing large volumes, selling IT hardware is not a place you'll make money.
My local dealer talked about Apple becoming a closed ecosystem, and that reminded me of iTunes which is a concept I've hated since it was invented and seemed to be getting worse last time I used an Apple which was about 5 years ago.
No it is not a closed ecosystem, that is also bull crap.
Apple openly publish information on their developer APIs, so they're no different than Microsoft.... infact, in many ways their APIs and level of information they provide is miles ahead of Microsoft.
OS X is also based on BSD, so you can write and compile software as you would for Linux/Unix using many of the same low-level programming libraries.... so you don't even have to use Apple's high-level APIs if you don't want to.
Xcode is freely available for developers to code, compile and test software for OS X and iOS. Hell, you don't even have use Xcode... you can use a text editor and use gcc etc. to compile yourself on the command line.
You can run unsigned software on OS X without problems, you only need to sign software if you intend to distribute it to third parties (well, actually, you don't even need to do that.... but it does stop a couple of warning dialogue boxes coming up when you first install the software ).
You don't have to buy software through Apple... e.g. all of Adobe's software is directly distributed and not distributed through Apple App Store / iTunes channels !
For a small annual fee ($80 or something), you can sign your own apps and run them on third-party iPhones and distribute them on iTunes if you so wish.
Also with VMWare on OS X, you can run Windows and Linux to your hearts desire !
People who talk about Apple being a closed ecosystem have absolutley no clue about what comes out of their gobs.
Last edited by mixture; 15th Nov 2014 at 11:24.
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mixture, thanks you brought back some positive memories with that post. 10 years ago or thereabouts I was contracted by a company to port their Java app to a whole bunch of Unix like systems including Mac OSX 10.3. The porting to the Mac was such a positive experience that both my boss and the lead dev ended up purchasing Mac laptops. I was later tasked to develop a utility that re-imaged Macs located in a university lab environment depending on what course was being run. I was later told that this big US university had successfully applied my utility eighty thousand times over a couple of months after its release. I learnt a lot about Macs then and they got a lot of my respect, also glad to learn from your post they haven't changed much at that level, however they were quite pricey and beyond my financial capacity at that time which is why I didn't jump ship.
So I think you have sized me up wrongly with my previous viewpoint, but I think you missed the sarcasm.
Notwithstanding, I hated iTunes when it first came out and still hate it today, I'll spare you the reasons why but I think you may already know, but as best as I can tell that's not going to be a showstopper for choosing a Mac.
I loathe the new Apple iStore concept, it's overcrowded with so many tyre kickers making it hard to get the right person to talk too and making the buying experience extremely impersonal - yet they are the cheapest suppliers of Macs by far so I need to visit it which I'm not looking forward to.
I have a few requirements that still need some thinking about, like solving my 2Tb disk problem which most laptops (Mac or PC) cannot solve, and I don't want NAS etc because the replacement machine I choose will not be networked most its life as I use other "sacrificial" laptops for my internet. But this detail, like a few more I have is solvable - just need to throw a few more dollars at it to make it work as I like it.
I don't plan on developing apps (and really don't want to) however I'm kinda fortunate to have started a new opportunity that has a customer base of well over 1 million clients per day, and should I go down the app dev path I could do it properly for both systems using a Mac (forget about that Adobe crosscompiler - it doesn't do high end style).
With regards to what my local dealer said, well that's his opinion and he's entitled to it, I'm now motivated in contacting a past work colleague who purchased a Macbook Pro in late 2012 after being a pc person all his life and get his opinion too.
So in the end your advice has been important to me and was definitely not a waste of time.
So I think you have sized me up wrongly with my previous viewpoint, but I think you missed the sarcasm.
Notwithstanding, I hated iTunes when it first came out and still hate it today, I'll spare you the reasons why but I think you may already know, but as best as I can tell that's not going to be a showstopper for choosing a Mac.
I loathe the new Apple iStore concept, it's overcrowded with so many tyre kickers making it hard to get the right person to talk too and making the buying experience extremely impersonal - yet they are the cheapest suppliers of Macs by far so I need to visit it which I'm not looking forward to.
I have a few requirements that still need some thinking about, like solving my 2Tb disk problem which most laptops (Mac or PC) cannot solve, and I don't want NAS etc because the replacement machine I choose will not be networked most its life as I use other "sacrificial" laptops for my internet. But this detail, like a few more I have is solvable - just need to throw a few more dollars at it to make it work as I like it.
I don't plan on developing apps (and really don't want to) however I'm kinda fortunate to have started a new opportunity that has a customer base of well over 1 million clients per day, and should I go down the app dev path I could do it properly for both systems using a Mac (forget about that Adobe crosscompiler - it doesn't do high end style).
With regards to what my local dealer said, well that's his opinion and he's entitled to it, I'm now motivated in contacting a past work colleague who purchased a Macbook Pro in late 2012 after being a pc person all his life and get his opinion too.
So in the end your advice has been important to me and was definitely not a waste of time.
