Big Problems with my Computer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Problems with my Computer
I hope that someone can read through this epic, and give some advice.
A couple of years ago, I purchased a custom built computer from my local computer dealer, who has successfully built several previous PCs built over the years for me. The computer is a fairly high spec, utilising a 250 Mb SSD as the main C drive, and two internal 1Tb drives. Windows 7 Home Premium x64, 8Gb RAM, with two other external data drives for back-up.
Part 1
Unfortunately, a couple of months ago, for no reason, the computer failed to start one morning. It got as far as trying to open Windows, then it reverted to the black DOS screen with the various "Start Normally/ Repair" options, after which I was able to start it. This happened for several days. Then, after using the "Start Normally" option one morning, the SSD gave up the ghost, with a message in a blue screen under the heading Dual BIOS- "Main BIOS is corrupted. System will recovery from back-up BIOS ". Unfortunately, this proved not to be the case- my computer guru/ dealer examined the computer, and declared the SSD Dead on Arrival. (This was subsequently confirmed by a Data Recovery firm.)
Part 2
New SSD inserted, Windows and programmes reinstalled, everything checked and working, received computer back home. Hooked everything back up, and fired it up. Except it didn't. It got as far as starting up Windows, then shut down.
Took it back to the repair shop. We found that the BIOS apparently was starting in the wrong mode (for whatever reason). Checked it out thoroughly, everything working.
Got home, and hooked it back up, along with the external hard drives. Same thing- BIOS starting in the wrong mode! Unhooked all of the external USB devices, including card readers. Started up, went into the BIOS, and switched it back to the correct mode. All working fine again. Haven't re-connected external USB devices again- so far.
Part 3
About a week later, we went away for the weekend. I switched the computer off before leaving. On returning, and switching back on, the fan/drives started up for a few seconds (not even as long as bringing up the initial screen), then switched off again. Then, a few seconds later- exactly the same thing. This happened a couple of times before I switched off at the wall. I switched on the mains, and tried to start up again. Same thing. Finally, at the third attempt Windows opened.
Part 4
It is now a week later. Once again, I switched the computer off before going away for the weekend. On returning, and switching back on, the fan/drives started up for a few seconds again not bringing up the initial screen, then switched off again. Then, a few seconds later- the same thing. This happened three times before I switched off at the wall. I switched on the mains, and tried to start up again. This time it got as far as starting Windows, then it switched off. On opening up again, it reverted to the black DOS screen with the various start/ repair options. After starting normally option, it got again to almost starting Windows, before reverting to it reverted to the black DOS screen. This time, I did not touch it, and, lo and behold, a few seconds later, of its own accord, Windows finally started up, and is still going.
I am scared to close it down again, in case it doesn't start up! And I haven't as yet reconnected the external back-up hard drives.
I've just been looking at the Computer Management section, and found the following:
From 08 July to 05 August, I had the following 10 Events:
Event ID 11- The driver detected an error on Device/ Hard Disk 2, 3, 4, or 5/ DR3; or sometimes, DR85 or 87
As well,
Event ID15- 6 Events, all at the same time - 12.23pm all the same message:
The device Device\Hard Disk 2\ DR2 is not ready for access yet.
Then, for yesterday, presumably when the computer was shutting itself on and off:
Critical Event ID41- Kernel-Power
As well,
6 other Error Events in the last few days: ID10, 1000, 4321, 7000, 7011, and 7026
Also,
Quite a few Warning Events over the past few weeks: ID1001, 1004, 1014, and 7003
Hope that you haven't gone to sleep reading my saga! I'm not sure whether the initial hard drive failure was perhaps caused as a consequence of what's been happening since.
Has anyone any thoughts/ theories as to what's going on?
A couple of years ago, I purchased a custom built computer from my local computer dealer, who has successfully built several previous PCs built over the years for me. The computer is a fairly high spec, utilising a 250 Mb SSD as the main C drive, and two internal 1Tb drives. Windows 7 Home Premium x64, 8Gb RAM, with two other external data drives for back-up.
Part 1
Unfortunately, a couple of months ago, for no reason, the computer failed to start one morning. It got as far as trying to open Windows, then it reverted to the black DOS screen with the various "Start Normally/ Repair" options, after which I was able to start it. This happened for several days. Then, after using the "Start Normally" option one morning, the SSD gave up the ghost, with a message in a blue screen under the heading Dual BIOS- "Main BIOS is corrupted. System will recovery from back-up BIOS ". Unfortunately, this proved not to be the case- my computer guru/ dealer examined the computer, and declared the SSD Dead on Arrival. (This was subsequently confirmed by a Data Recovery firm.)
Part 2
New SSD inserted, Windows and programmes reinstalled, everything checked and working, received computer back home. Hooked everything back up, and fired it up. Except it didn't. It got as far as starting up Windows, then shut down.
Took it back to the repair shop. We found that the BIOS apparently was starting in the wrong mode (for whatever reason). Checked it out thoroughly, everything working.
Got home, and hooked it back up, along with the external hard drives. Same thing- BIOS starting in the wrong mode! Unhooked all of the external USB devices, including card readers. Started up, went into the BIOS, and switched it back to the correct mode. All working fine again. Haven't re-connected external USB devices again- so far.
Part 3
About a week later, we went away for the weekend. I switched the computer off before leaving. On returning, and switching back on, the fan/drives started up for a few seconds (not even as long as bringing up the initial screen), then switched off again. Then, a few seconds later- exactly the same thing. This happened a couple of times before I switched off at the wall. I switched on the mains, and tried to start up again. Same thing. Finally, at the third attempt Windows opened.
Part 4
It is now a week later. Once again, I switched the computer off before going away for the weekend. On returning, and switching back on, the fan/drives started up for a few seconds again not bringing up the initial screen, then switched off again. Then, a few seconds later- the same thing. This happened three times before I switched off at the wall. I switched on the mains, and tried to start up again. This time it got as far as starting Windows, then it switched off. On opening up again, it reverted to the black DOS screen with the various start/ repair options. After starting normally option, it got again to almost starting Windows, before reverting to it reverted to the black DOS screen. This time, I did not touch it, and, lo and behold, a few seconds later, of its own accord, Windows finally started up, and is still going.
I am scared to close it down again, in case it doesn't start up! And I haven't as yet reconnected the external back-up hard drives.
I've just been looking at the Computer Management section, and found the following:
From 08 July to 05 August, I had the following 10 Events:
Event ID 11- The driver detected an error on Device/ Hard Disk 2, 3, 4, or 5/ DR3; or sometimes, DR85 or 87
As well,
Event ID15- 6 Events, all at the same time - 12.23pm all the same message:
The device Device\Hard Disk 2\ DR2 is not ready for access yet.
Then, for yesterday, presumably when the computer was shutting itself on and off:
Critical Event ID41- Kernel-Power
As well,
6 other Error Events in the last few days: ID10, 1000, 4321, 7000, 7011, and 7026
Also,
Quite a few Warning Events over the past few weeks: ID1001, 1004, 1014, and 7003
Hope that you haven't gone to sleep reading my saga! I'm not sure whether the initial hard drive failure was perhaps caused as a consequence of what's been happening since.
Has anyone any thoughts/ theories as to what's going on?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could you clarify what you mean by "then switched off again" ?
Do you mean actually turning off ? Or do you mean resetting to a black screen ... perhaps with a "system disk not found" message (or similar).
If the former, then its pretty clear its likely to be a hardware fault of some description beyond hard drive issues, since hard drive issues don't cause a computer to turn itself off.
Do you mean actually turning off ? Or do you mean resetting to a black screen ... perhaps with a "system disk not found" message (or similar).
If the former, then its pretty clear its likely to be a hardware fault of some description beyond hard drive issues, since hard drive issues don't cause a computer to turn itself off.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By switch off, I mean that initially, it switched on for 3-4 seconds, before returning to the point where I would have pressed the "on" button, except that the computer tried to start itself again. After this repeating several times, I then switched the power off at the mains.
After switching the mains power on again, and pressing the Go button, it again fired up a couple of times, eventually getting as far as opening Windows, before immediately switching off, and thereafter reverting to the DOS screen. No "system disk not found" message, simply the various options- "Start Normally", "Repair" , "Start in Safe Mode", etc. on a black DOS screen.
Hope that this clarifies things!
Thx
After switching the mains power on again, and pressing the Go button, it again fired up a couple of times, eventually getting as far as opening Windows, before immediately switching off, and thereafter reverting to the DOS screen. No "system disk not found" message, simply the various options- "Start Normally", "Repair" , "Start in Safe Mode", etc. on a black DOS screen.
Hope that this clarifies things!
Thx
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Age: 77
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have had a couple of machines that exhibited similar problems.
You have to be methodical.
Unlikely to be a drive but could be M/B, ram, or power supply giving up the ghost - maybe the processor but that is not easy to replace.
Unplug everything and see if it exhibits the same symptoms with just the power supply, the motherboard should bleep (if there is a case speaker) or at least stay on.
Change the cmos battery (cr2032 in supermarket) and reset the bios - read m/b manual.
Try again.
It could be oxidation on the contacts of the ram sticks.
I would suggest you then try starting the machine with tthe absolute minimum - 1 stick of ram, graphics card and see if it exhibits same symptoms - should bring up the Bios screen.
If it works then start adding the other ram sticks one by one.
If it doesn't then try a different ram stick.
Add ram sticks one by one.
Still no go, then you have narrowed it down to the graphics card or power supply or a failing motherboard.
Pick whichever - you could try with a cheap graphics card to narrow it further.
If it's any consolation both my problems were 1 m/b and 1 power supply.
You have to be methodical.
Unlikely to be a drive but could be M/B, ram, or power supply giving up the ghost - maybe the processor but that is not easy to replace.
Unplug everything and see if it exhibits the same symptoms with just the power supply, the motherboard should bleep (if there is a case speaker) or at least stay on.
Change the cmos battery (cr2032 in supermarket) and reset the bios - read m/b manual.
Try again.
It could be oxidation on the contacts of the ram sticks.
I would suggest you then try starting the machine with tthe absolute minimum - 1 stick of ram, graphics card and see if it exhibits same symptoms - should bring up the Bios screen.
If it works then start adding the other ram sticks one by one.
If it doesn't then try a different ram stick.
Add ram sticks one by one.
Still no go, then you have narrowed it down to the graphics card or power supply or a failing motherboard.
Pick whichever - you could try with a cheap graphics card to narrow it further.
If it's any consolation both my problems were 1 m/b and 1 power supply.
Last edited by finncapt; 18th Aug 2014 at 13:28. Reason: complete rehash
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hard drive issues don't cause a computer to turn itself off
My advice to OP is to double check all the HDD connections (power and data). SATA plugs can be fiddly.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Age: 77
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Booglebox.
I don't know whether your statement is correct.
I would suggest that if you unplug the hard drive, with the operating system on, whilst the computer is in use it would indeed cause a blue screen.
This may be due to the sudden lack of an operating system rather than the act of unplugging the drive.
When I have a few idle moments, I will see what happens if you unplug a sata drive without the operating system on - similar to unplugging an external sata drive.
I think you may damage a pata drive doing the same but again I don't know.
I don't know whether your statement is correct.
I would suggest that if you unplug the hard drive, with the operating system on, whilst the computer is in use it would indeed cause a blue screen.
This may be due to the sudden lack of an operating system rather than the act of unplugging the drive.
When I have a few idle moments, I will see what happens if you unplug a sata drive without the operating system on - similar to unplugging an external sata drive.
I think you may damage a pata drive doing the same but again I don't know.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nope. Try unplugging a SATA or PATA drive while it's switched on - guaranteed bluescreen.
(a) A "bluescreen" does not count as turining itself off in by books ! After my initial question, the OP clarified that the computer really does TURN ITSELF OFF..... that sort of behavior is absolutley nothing to do with hard drives (or even hard drive controllers) and is a deeper, more sinister hardware problem.
(b) Maybe on Microsnot Windblows, but you won't get a bluescreen on Linux or Mac.
(c) What about hard drives in a RAID configuration.... no bluescreen, no crash... no damage to drives.... I can happily plug and unplug SATA drives all day whilst the system is live !
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Age: 77
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mixture.
You have such a good way with words, you have expressed what I really wanted to say but I have been taught to think about crm (Big Airways sent me on a course about six months before I retired - I suggested it was a bit of a waste of time)!!!
You have such a good way with words, you have expressed what I really wanted to say but I have been taught to think about crm (Big Airways sent me on a course about six months before I retired - I suggested it was a bit of a waste of time)!!!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
finncapt,
Well, as I've said on here before.....
If you pay me, I'll happily hold your hand and whisper soothing nice sounds into your ear to console you about your IT problems and spend a few hours writing up a detailed report for you at the end.
But my time here is unpaid... so you get the benefit of decent advice but without the padding, waffle and treading on eggshells that would normally have to be present in a professional supplier/client relationship.
So I can do CRM when circumstances merit it....
Well, as I've said on here before.....
If you pay me, I'll happily hold your hand and whisper soothing nice sounds into your ear to console you about your IT problems and spend a few hours writing up a detailed report for you at the end.
But my time here is unpaid... so you get the benefit of decent advice but without the padding, waffle and treading on eggshells that would normally have to be present in a professional supplier/client relationship.
So I can do CRM when circumstances merit it....
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Judging by the various symptoms and the ongoing misbehaviour, I would be inclined to try the "minimal spec" startup - just power supply, motherboard, memory, and boot hard drive.
However, from the problem description I would point a stern accusatory finger at the power supply. Spiking voltages, or over-volts, can cause all kinds of hiccups. A good-quality power supply, rated at more watts than the PC uses, may resolve the problem.
However, from the problem description I would point a stern accusatory finger at the power supply. Spiking voltages, or over-volts, can cause all kinds of hiccups. A good-quality power supply, rated at more watts than the PC uses, may resolve the problem.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks finncapt.
As for Tosh McCaber ... if you're not comfortable fiddling around in a methodical manner with hardware, I suggest you find yourself a better repair shop as I'm not too sure of capabilities of your present one based on your description.
If you are happy to fiddle around, follow the suggestions from finncapt.... take removable stuff out, put stuff in.... one by one... see where it breaks. If swapping ram, graphics cards etc doesn't help... then you're probably looking at motherboard and/or CPU as finncapt said.... then if you want to persue the self-help route its merely a case of whether or not you are competent with an oscilloscope and a soldering iron.
I would normally suggest booting off a hardware test CD, but if your computer is really turning itself off at the earliest opportunity then obviously that's a no-go.
Good luck !
As for Tosh McCaber ... if you're not comfortable fiddling around in a methodical manner with hardware, I suggest you find yourself a better repair shop as I'm not too sure of capabilities of your present one based on your description.
If you are happy to fiddle around, follow the suggestions from finncapt.... take removable stuff out, put stuff in.... one by one... see where it breaks. If swapping ram, graphics cards etc doesn't help... then you're probably looking at motherboard and/or CPU as finncapt said.... then if you want to persue the self-help route its merely a case of whether or not you are competent with an oscilloscope and a soldering iron.
I would normally suggest booting off a hardware test CD, but if your computer is really turning itself off at the earliest opportunity then obviously that's a no-go.
Good luck !
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Start with the Power Supply in the PC AND get a Surge protector if not already fitted.
Check the BIOS setting for what happens in the event of a power fail. If it is set to come back on, as all of mine are, then your system may be experiencing a power fail whilst you are out of the house, going into a reboot cycle and confusing the Windows.
Power surges might have gubbed the PSU, it happens a lot.
The external drives might be draining the board's capacity to feed USB and SATA Ports.
We used to build PCs, now we supply Dell hardware to all of our customers. Rather than trial and error to work out which cards conflict with which boards, we let Dell do that.
Check the BIOS setting for what happens in the event of a power fail. If it is set to come back on, as all of mine are, then your system may be experiencing a power fail whilst you are out of the house, going into a reboot cycle and confusing the Windows.
Power surges might have gubbed the PSU, it happens a lot.
The external drives might be draining the board's capacity to feed USB and SATA Ports.
We used to build PCs, now we supply Dell hardware to all of our customers. Rather than trial and error to work out which cards conflict with which boards, we let Dell do that.
Controversial, moi?
Power supplies are not sexy hence they are an often overlooked aspect of a computer's internal specifications.
This article advocates buying a PSU by weight! Joking aside it is a very interesting article and I have personally experienced a problem upgrading a machine and experiencing some weird problems which were caused, it transpired, by the PSU being unable to cope with the marginally increased power requirements. It was a PC from a now bankrupt PC supplier and the power supply was literally able to power the PC with almost no excess capacity!
This article advocates buying a PSU by weight! Joking aside it is a very interesting article and I have personally experienced a problem upgrading a machine and experiencing some weird problems which were caused, it transpired, by the PSU being unable to cope with the marginally increased power requirements. It was a PC from a now bankrupt PC supplier and the power supply was literally able to power the PC with almost no excess capacity!
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some years ago a friend of mine bought a "bespoke" PC which was reckoned to be exceptionally fast etc. It wasn't as impressive as he expected, and after a couple of years it stopped working. The manufacturer advised him to replace it with a new one, and sent him a suggested spec, which he showed to me.
It was all very upmarket, except for a 300 watt power supply. I reckoned it needed more like 800 watts. He challenged the manufacturer who got quite indignant.
I had a spare 500 watt power supply in my cupboard, so tried replacing the one in his failed PC (which turned out to be 300 watt). That got the machine working better than ever before, and it's still in use. I calculated that it needed all 500 watts. We later fitted an 800 watt PSU.
It was all very upmarket, except for a 300 watt power supply. I reckoned it needed more like 800 watts. He challenged the manufacturer who got quite indignant.
I had a spare 500 watt power supply in my cupboard, so tried replacing the one in his failed PC (which turned out to be 300 watt). That got the machine working better than ever before, and it's still in use. I calculated that it needed all 500 watts. We later fitted an 800 watt PSU.
Suppose best try easy things first.....Change CMOS battery, try with HDDs unplugged, reset BIOS to default, take out ssd and install one of the HDDs as boot drive ( create new partion and reinstall etc). If its an Asus board or something with an automatic overclocking utility disable it. The start up behaviour sounds like one of my overclocking misadventures but not the error msgs.
Presume you have checked all connectors? Its been a while but last time I looked another power connector has appeared on motherboards. I ran a machining skimping on one as the PSU was old and didn't have the right lead. Ran alright but.....
Presume you have checked all connectors? Its been a while but last time I looked another power connector has appeared on motherboards. I ran a machining skimping on one as the PSU was old and didn't have the right lead. Ran alright but.....
Plastic PPRuNer
How to choose an ATX Power Supply - PC Power Supply - How to Select Computer Power Supplies- Directron.com the Best Online Computer Store - Buy with Discount Prices from Houston Texas
Now that IS an interesting link! One sort of knows it intuitively but fascinating to see it verified. A bity that they didn't have time to check the various voltages and stability under load!
Haven't built a machine for a while, but they all get 500-750 watt PSUs from top brands - been bitten by cheaper stuff in the past (including one very sparky and smoky demise...)
Mac
Now that IS an interesting link! One sort of knows it intuitively but fascinating to see it verified. A bity that they didn't have time to check the various voltages and stability under load!
Haven't built a machine for a while, but they all get 500-750 watt PSUs from top brands - been bitten by cheaper stuff in the past (including one very sparky and smoky demise...)
Mac
