WinXP: only 6 months left
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 805
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
I am dreading the day that I am compelled to upgrade from XP. I invested in XP in the early norties because it offered photographic handling facilities that Win 98 did not. Since that time I have managed to get XP to do everything I want including running some programmes I have been using since the days of wn 3.1 and some DOS based games. Recently I needed to acquire a new laptop and was therefore obliged to start learning win 7. I am still struggling to get it to work in the way XP does for me - silly things like my ancient version of Outlook will not store passwords - a problem I have as I have to re-enter them every day. I suppose that I am expected to invest a fortune in acquiring up to date versions of much of my software, but as people keep saying, "if is ain't broke, don't fix it". Hopefully a solution, for all the reasons stated above will emerge. I wouldn't be averse to buying a new license from Microsoft to keep my version of XP up to date. If they made it cheap enough, I am sure many others would as well so Microsoft's income could be maintained.
P.P.
P.P.
Guest
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
When - and if - I have a major problem with XP, Linux Mint will be put on my PC and everything swapped over.
But I'm hoping that the Cleverbridge guys from Brabanter Strasse, Köln, will stay on guard after MS support ends.
But I'm hoping that the Cleverbridge guys from Brabanter Strasse, Köln, will stay on guard after MS support ends.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 21
From: YMML
MS is really not interested in extending support for XP any further:
"An IT manager, who wished to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak on the matter, told Computerworld that Microsoft had quoted his company $1 million for the first year of custom support to cover 5,000 Windows XP machines, $2 million for the second year, and $5 million for the third."
Microsoft gooses Windows XP's custom support prices as deadline nears - Computerworld
Maybe if you put aside a couple of dollars/pounds/euro a week you'd have enough money to buy new versions every so often. It's not like it's an unexpected event.
For better or worse software evolves and unless you can maintain it yourself (or pay for the privilege) you have little choice but to go along for the ride. Changing in a number of gradual steps is a hell of a lot easier than one huge leap every ten years.
"An IT manager, who wished to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak on the matter, told Computerworld that Microsoft had quoted his company $1 million for the first year of custom support to cover 5,000 Windows XP machines, $2 million for the second year, and $5 million for the third."
Microsoft gooses Windows XP's custom support prices as deadline nears - Computerworld
Maybe if you put aside a couple of dollars/pounds/euro a week you'd have enough money to buy new versions every so often. It's not like it's an unexpected event.
For better or worse software evolves and unless you can maintain it yourself (or pay for the privilege) you have little choice but to go along for the ride. Changing in a number of gradual steps is a hell of a lot easier than one huge leap every ten years.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,630
Likes: 0
From: 39N 77W
Is the XP Mode still available for Windows 7 Pro?
I know that no version of Win 8 has an XP mode.
Manufacturers are still selling PCs with Windows 7 since major commercial customers are not ready to replace a fraction of their PCs with Win 8. There are significant retraining and support costs for having both 7 and 8 in house..
I know that no version of Win 8 has an XP mode.
Manufacturers are still selling PCs with Windows 7 since major commercial customers are not ready to replace a fraction of their PCs with Win 8. There are significant retraining and support costs for having both 7 and 8 in house..
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: England
The next time you pop into your local (UK) post office and watch the nice lady behind the counter using her touch screen computer you're watching someone using Windows NT4 SP6 on a Pentium 4 running at 200MHz with 256MB of memory. When you pay for your coffee in Starbucks the IBM till is running NT4 too.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
From: Earth
you need to plan to use something other than XP come April as continuing to use it is not a sensible option.
People who use XP after it goes EOL are fools.
I don't care if you're running anti-virus or whatever, it won't help you one iota if the underlying OS is not patched up. Anti-virus and other third party security software all use underlying OS APIs.... if those APIs are insecure, then so is your security software.
As for the people here implying Microsoft don't care, those people have evidently never been involved in software development. You can't realistically continue to support all historical editions of software, you have to draw a line somewhere.
Get yourselves upgraded to a newer version of Windows or migrate to Linux or Mac.
Remaining on XP is not an option. There is ZERO justification for any private individual to remain on XP, and there is ZERO justification for any business other than large corporates with legacy systems (and a healthy sized IT department) to remain on XP.
The time has come, Microsoft gave you more than enough notice. Deal with it.
Last edited by mixture; 21st October 2013 at 21:31.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
Likes: 62
From: Down under
This board has generally been a gold mine of valuable and helpful information, but posts such as the one above can easily destroy that illusion.
People are entitled to make their own decisions about what operating system they use and for how long. Some may disagree with those reasons, but to vindictively label such people as 'fools' destroys confidence in the advice offered in this board, and weakens and perhaps even destroys for some what has been a valuable and trusted arena for genuine help and fraternal advice. Frankly some of the arguments offered for dumping XP - and the scenarios promised - are strongly reminiscent of what we heard toward the end of last century about something called the Y2K bug.
Changing to a new operating system is not something to be undertaken lightly. Scores of programs need to be re-installed some of them will not operate in anything after XP. New ones may have to be purchased and learned afresh. Realistically serviceable and functional machines may have to be dumped and new ones purchased. Its a major dislocation of functionality and familiarity. And its expensive in terms of time, money and frustration. Multiply this by the number of computers some of us have, and the disincentives are enormous.
The most persuasive reason for changing to a new operating system is that it will offer improvements in performance, ease of use and productivity. If that hasn't been adequately demonstrated in post XP versions of Windows then it isn't the fault of the users.
I submit that millions of users are probably going to stay with Windows XP for good and varied reasons. Whilst it may be unwise from a professional IT point of view, their reasons are valid for them, and that needs to be accepted.
In the meantime treating people with respect, politeness and goodwill may just ensure that this board remains the valuable and competent source of help and friendly advice which users had come to expect.
People are entitled to make their own decisions about what operating system they use and for how long. Some may disagree with those reasons, but to vindictively label such people as 'fools' destroys confidence in the advice offered in this board, and weakens and perhaps even destroys for some what has been a valuable and trusted arena for genuine help and fraternal advice. Frankly some of the arguments offered for dumping XP - and the scenarios promised - are strongly reminiscent of what we heard toward the end of last century about something called the Y2K bug.
Changing to a new operating system is not something to be undertaken lightly. Scores of programs need to be re-installed some of them will not operate in anything after XP. New ones may have to be purchased and learned afresh. Realistically serviceable and functional machines may have to be dumped and new ones purchased. Its a major dislocation of functionality and familiarity. And its expensive in terms of time, money and frustration. Multiply this by the number of computers some of us have, and the disincentives are enormous.
The most persuasive reason for changing to a new operating system is that it will offer improvements in performance, ease of use and productivity. If that hasn't been adequately demonstrated in post XP versions of Windows then it isn't the fault of the users.
I submit that millions of users are probably going to stay with Windows XP for good and varied reasons. Whilst it may be unwise from a professional IT point of view, their reasons are valid for them, and that needs to be accepted.
In the meantime treating people with respect, politeness and goodwill may just ensure that this board remains the valuable and competent source of help and friendly advice which users had come to expect.
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 2
From: have I forgotten or am I lost?
the other option of course is that microsoft will become bankrupt before realising the error of their ways.
anyway that is microsoft's problem not mine since I have a non microsoft solution that works pretty well the way I want.
anyway that is microsoft's problem not mine since I have a non microsoft solution that works pretty well the way I want.
Guest
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
posts such as the one above can easily destroy that illusion.
Mixture's technical advice is well thought-out and first rate. Sadly his interpersonal skills leave a lot to be desired and tend to make one disregard everything he writes.
Mixture's technical advice is well thought-out and first rate. Sadly his interpersonal skills leave a lot to be desired and tend to make one disregard everything he writes.
Last edited by OFSO; 22nd October 2013 at 12:27.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 21
From: YMML
MS might go bankrupt but it won't be due to letting old OSes die. MS Office isn't going anywhere soon and the corporate world will move onto Win7. How does the average home user acquire Windows? They buy a PC. Attrition will take care of that.
In his own gentle manner Mixture is correct. Seriously, the purveyors of malware must be rubbing their hands together waiting for April because they know oodles of users will stick with XP. They'll have any number of zero day exploits waiting to be unleashed and every XP system will be vulnerable in perpetuity.
If you value the data on your computer and your bank balance then please stop using XP online after April. Would you leave your valuables in a car that was known to be easy to break into? No? Why would you do it with a computer? Sure, you might get away with with it or you might not,,,,,
Yes, I know it won't necessarily be easy to make the move but there are ways and means to ease the migration. Investigate using XP in a virtual machine for instance. Just don't take the bloody thing online.
You've got six months so get cracking!
In his own gentle manner Mixture is correct. Seriously, the purveyors of malware must be rubbing their hands together waiting for April because they know oodles of users will stick with XP. They'll have any number of zero day exploits waiting to be unleashed and every XP system will be vulnerable in perpetuity.
If you value the data on your computer and your bank balance then please stop using XP online after April. Would you leave your valuables in a car that was known to be easy to break into? No? Why would you do it with a computer? Sure, you might get away with with it or you might not,,,,,
Yes, I know it won't necessarily be easy to make the move but there are ways and means to ease the migration. Investigate using XP in a virtual machine for instance. Just don't take the bloody thing online.
You've got six months so get cracking!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Seriously, the purveyors of malware must be rubbing their hands together waiting for April because they know oodles of users will stick with XP. They'll have any number of zero day exploits waiting to be unleashed and every XP system will be vulnerable in perpetuity.
If I were a malware writer, sure I'd continue releasing a few scraps here and there. But I'd be holding off my best work until April, both because I'd know I'd be able to charge a premium rate on the black market, and also because there would be bugger all Microsoft would ever do about it.
Seriously, do not underestimate the malware writers.
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 8,121
Likes: 686
From: Twickenham, home of rugby
I'm firmly on the side of the upgraders.
It isn't just personal data at risk, it's the internet as a whole that can be hugely impacted by large numbers of unpatched PCs with out-of-date OSes.
Fine if your Win 9x / NT4 / 2000 / XP PC is never, ever connected to the internet.
Otherwise it is putting others at risk as well.
SD
It isn't just personal data at risk, it's the internet as a whole that can be hugely impacted by large numbers of unpatched PCs with out-of-date OSes.
Fine if your Win 9x / NT4 / 2000 / XP PC is never, ever connected to the internet.
Otherwise it is putting others at risk as well.
SD
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Mixture:
I'm an XP user on old "2007" kit: + Linux (IP tables Locked as a brick House.)
I do have commercial experience of supporting small 18-24 user groups , not big iron kit. SCO and Win R2003- perhaps small cake in your experience.
Surely, using Win 2003/2008 R server Admin you can limit and modify the the usage policies associated with your win XP users: hard ! Game
On the home front; for people like me - save your EM outbound data ( say Minitab/Mathcad attachments to USB) and only use your PC in Lnux mode.for internet - I have done the usual port i/o allocations - T'bird for the afflicted BT users - like me.
It's not as Mad Hat (No joke) as you imagine:
There's a huge intellectual input, in terms of customisation associated with long standing units associated with many user individuals and groups.
Its not the game promoted by "PC Mags/Advice helpers sponsored by MS advertising" etc.
Its a stinker of a problem for many ! - Am I going to migrate my Mathcad 14 ! - to 8.1 Sod knows.
Look at the granularity of the problem. ?
It's a very complex call - MS have really given the pony the stick of ginger up the jet pipe here. - I can switch off N/W connections physically.
CAT III
I do have commercial experience of supporting small 18-24 user groups , not big iron kit. SCO and Win R2003- perhaps small cake in your experience.
Surely, using Win 2003/2008 R server Admin you can limit and modify the the usage policies associated with your win XP users: hard ! Game
On the home front; for people like me - save your EM outbound data ( say Minitab/Mathcad attachments to USB) and only use your PC in Lnux mode.for internet - I have done the usual port i/o allocations - T'bird for the afflicted BT users - like me.
It's not as Mad Hat (No joke) as you imagine:
There's a huge intellectual input, in terms of customisation associated with long standing units associated with many user individuals and groups.
Its not the game promoted by "PC Mags/Advice helpers sponsored by MS advertising" etc.
Its a stinker of a problem for many ! - Am I going to migrate my Mathcad 14 ! - to 8.1 Sod knows.
Look at the granularity of the problem. ?
It's a very complex call - MS have really given the pony the stick of ginger up the jet pipe here. - I can switch off N/W connections physically.
CAT III
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 21
From: YMML
The problem is that most users don't have the knowledge or interest to do anything other than use a computer as an appliance. They need to be presented with a ready-made and safe solution. Continuing to use XP online is, very definitely, not a safe or sensible option for those users. Bespoke security arrangements won't work for them.
The safe and sensible options are:
1. Buy a new system for accessing anything on-line, then pull the network cable on XP, or if you must leave it on a local network disable Internet access.
2. Dual boot a new OS with XP on the original machine. A pain in the backside having to reboot the system to switch between OSes. Again disable Internet access on XP.
3. Run XP in a virtual machine with Internet access disabled. Provided you have sufficient RAM and enough CPU grunt (not really a problem with a modern machine) this is a nice solution. There are ways and means to virtualise your current system (licensing permitting of course). Accessing legacy hardware could be a problem though.
The safe and sensible options are:
1. Buy a new system for accessing anything on-line, then pull the network cable on XP, or if you must leave it on a local network disable Internet access.
2. Dual boot a new OS with XP on the original machine. A pain in the backside having to reboot the system to switch between OSes. Again disable Internet access on XP.
3. Run XP in a virtual machine with Internet access disabled. Provided you have sufficient RAM and enough CPU grunt (not really a problem with a modern machine) this is a nice solution. There are ways and means to virtualise your current system (licensing permitting of course). Accessing legacy hardware could be a problem though.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Surely, using Win 2003/2008 R server Admin you can limit and modify the the usage policies associated with your win XP users
As le Pingouin said. If you insist on using XP, then I insist on you only using it with the internet unplugged ... permanently. Anything else is not an option.
Joined: Apr 1998
Posts: 4
Likes: 1
From: Mesopotamos
From a personal usage POV, the best way to upgrade your XP computer filled with legacy apps that are proven to already work and will cost you a small fortune to update while giving you endless migraines in the process is.....
don't.
Disconnect the network cable and buy yourself the latest and most cheapest laptop (which are spec'd pretty good) with Win 8.1 pre-installed and use that exclusively for all your internet activity. $300 is all it takes and you get a shiny new play thing.
don't.
Disconnect the network cable and buy yourself the latest and most cheapest laptop (which are spec'd pretty good) with Win 8.1 pre-installed and use that exclusively for all your internet activity. $300 is all it takes and you get a shiny new play thing.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Thanks Mixture
When Push becomes shuv - In the short term I'm going to save my work to USB - re boot and re boot into Linux (Network enabled) and send the requisite attachments by EM that way. Of course this only applies in some cases.
What a pa-lava - But needs as must.
But cattletruck has the solution.
It's the ordinary users and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, who really are going to be stuffed by the forced change.
Company computers in many cases, are protected behind all manner of sophisticated technologies and its been estimated that by the cut off, something like 26% of PC's on the internet will still be XP operating system based.
I know the statistic is open to question and I bet that does not include those used in industrial applications.
From Mixture.
But.....
"built-in or third-party security... running on top of XP is as good as having no security whatsoever. It'll all be exploitable via bugs in the APIs."
What a mess
Microsoft are a commercial operation and XP is obsolete for a number of reasons but Microsoft could have made the transition easier between XP and WIn 7.
What a pa-lava - But needs as must.
But cattletruck has the solution.
It's the ordinary users and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, who really are going to be stuffed by the forced change.
Company computers in many cases, are protected behind all manner of sophisticated technologies and its been estimated that by the cut off, something like 26% of PC's on the internet will still be XP operating system based.
I know the statistic is open to question and I bet that does not include those used in industrial applications.
From Mixture.
But.....
"built-in or third-party security... running on top of XP is as good as having no security whatsoever. It'll all be exploitable via bugs in the APIs."
What a mess
Microsoft are a commercial operation and XP is obsolete for a number of reasons but Microsoft could have made the transition easier between XP and WIn 7.
Last edited by Guest 112233; 25th October 2013 at 10:59.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
From: Bracknell, Berks, UK
It's rare that I now visit this forum, and even rarer that I post any more.
However, this subject sees me logging in to post this:
The bottom line, for anyone who is determined to use Windows XP post-April 2014 is that you must NEVER EVER connect it to the internet following that date unless you've paid the $Xm to Microsoft for ongoing corporate support (nobody here i'd wager).
IT guys are not renowned for their interpersonal skills, but the 2 individuals on this thread who's technical opinions I can respect are Mixture and Saab, and when you get both of them and me in consensus on this issue the people who don't consider themselves IT experts should take that for the message that it is.
Mike.
However, this subject sees me logging in to post this:
The bottom line, for anyone who is determined to use Windows XP post-April 2014 is that you must NEVER EVER connect it to the internet following that date unless you've paid the $Xm to Microsoft for ongoing corporate support (nobody here i'd wager).
IT guys are not renowned for their interpersonal skills, but the 2 individuals on this thread who's technical opinions I can respect are Mixture and Saab, and when you get both of them and me in consensus on this issue the people who don't consider themselves IT experts should take that for the message that it is.
Mike.
Plastic PPRuNer
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 0
From: Rochechouart, France
What a fuss! For Heavens sake!
Virtualize your old XP machine and run it in a VM on a modern OS (Win or *nix)
Just don't give the VM access to the Net - or let it and just revert to a known clean snapshot everytime you run it.
You could use a non-routable protocol like NetBIOS/NetBEUI or DLC to communicate.
Paragon's Go Virtual works nicely - Virtualize your computer (make a virtual copy of it) with Paragon Go Virtual | Reviews, news, tips, and tricks | dotTech
So does VMWare - Virtualize your old Win XP machine on Windows 7 | DigiBlog
Anyone would think the skies were falling!
Mac
Edited to add:
I don't of course mean that folks should still be running XP as their main OS.
They shouldn't.
BUT if you're keeping it around to run some very specific app then there might be some rationale for keeping an old copy around and there are ways of doing this in reasonable safety.
Virtualize your old XP machine and run it in a VM on a modern OS (Win or *nix)
Just don't give the VM access to the Net - or let it and just revert to a known clean snapshot everytime you run it.
You could use a non-routable protocol like NetBIOS/NetBEUI or DLC to communicate.
Paragon's Go Virtual works nicely - Virtualize your computer (make a virtual copy of it) with Paragon Go Virtual | Reviews, news, tips, and tricks | dotTech
So does VMWare - Virtualize your old Win XP machine on Windows 7 | DigiBlog
Anyone would think the skies were falling!
Mac
Edited to add:
I don't of course mean that folks should still be running XP as their main OS.
They shouldn't.
BUT if you're keeping it around to run some very specific app then there might be some rationale for keeping an old copy around and there are ways of doing this in reasonable safety.
Last edited by Mac the Knife; 25th October 2013 at 13:01.