WinXP: only 6 months left
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Sorry I personally agree with the pro's
But I suspect that the consumers are going to not upgrade.
I know that it doesn't matter what I say to the boss he isn't going to upgrade the works PC's. If they die and the new one comes with Win8 on it so be it.
This is going to be the carrying factor I suspect.
Its going to end up being the pro IT admins who are going to suffer. And it could very well be that things implode but I honestly can't see a mass migration away from XP aka what happened over Y2K. And to be honest there is still a lot of feeling out there because of Y2K with a lot of people seeing the whole thing as a waste of time and money.
The longer it takes for something not to happen the less pressure there will be to change.
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if something comes out about a month after the support finishes. It will be of a very high technical standard almost as if the had access to the full technical documentation to the OS. It will of course be fatal to the OS requiring it to be wiped and a new OS to be installed.
But I suspect that the consumers are going to not upgrade.
I know that it doesn't matter what I say to the boss he isn't going to upgrade the works PC's. If they die and the new one comes with Win8 on it so be it.
It isn't just personal data at risk, it's the internet as a whole that can be hugely impacted by large numbers of unpatched PCs with out-of-date OSes.
Its going to end up being the pro IT admins who are going to suffer. And it could very well be that things implode but I honestly can't see a mass migration away from XP aka what happened over Y2K. And to be honest there is still a lot of feeling out there because of Y2K with a lot of people seeing the whole thing as a waste of time and money.
The longer it takes for something not to happen the less pressure there will be to change.
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if something comes out about a month after the support finishes. It will be of a very high technical standard almost as if the had access to the full technical documentation to the OS. It will of course be fatal to the OS requiring it to be wiped and a new OS to be installed.
For those of us that have "normal" brains, as opposed to "IT"* brains, the fact that our man in Bracknell, our man of Apple, and sundry others all agree that XP will be a problem means that I, for one, will be off next year looking for a decent cheapo pc with something other than XP on it.
*
I never got beyond Heat, Light and Sound in the 4th year, and avoided science O levels. (The skool got its own back by making me take 3 maths O levels). And I'm still on p15 of Hawkins' book.
*
I never got beyond Heat, Light and Sound in the 4th year, and avoided science O levels. (The skool got its own back by making me take 3 maths O levels). And I'm still on p15 of Hawkins' book.
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AO
There are tons of cheap laptops on that river place.
Well personally I don't have an XP system. So its fine for me.
The problem that will occur is when nothing happens and people continue to use out of date OS's with no problems.
In the main 99% of home users never upgrade an OS, the only time they will change is when the computer dies and they have to get a new one.
So something pretty major is going to have to happen to get people to move.
There are tons of cheap laptops on that river place.
Well personally I don't have an XP system. So its fine for me.
The problem that will occur is when nothing happens and people continue to use out of date OS's with no problems.
In the main 99% of home users never upgrade an OS, the only time they will change is when the computer dies and they have to get a new one.
So something pretty major is going to have to happen to get people to move.
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New computer came with WIN 7 - did not look forward to the change but in the end I really didn't notice much difference from XP, except that is does appears to be more stable.
Upgraded 'er indoors' from Vista to WIN 7 and it was a definite improvement.
Still get the occasional glitch but I suspect that is the ancient hardware, certainly smoother & faster.
Upgraded 'er indoors' from Vista to WIN 7 and it was a definite improvement.
Still get the occasional glitch but I suspect that is the ancient hardware, certainly smoother & faster.
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It's 13 years since XP was released to a grateful world. Three service packs followed to get it Quite Right and since then it's been a useful tool.
Yet to read posts on this thread it still won't remain a viable proposition without those weekly and monthly updates, debugs and anti-malware releases. I'm glad my car was not sold to me on the same basis.
Seacue, I haven't asked them all but the ones I have researched say they have no plans to withdraw support for XP anti-virus and-anti malware..
Yet to read posts on this thread it still won't remain a viable proposition without those weekly and monthly updates, debugs and anti-malware releases. I'm glad my car was not sold to me on the same basis.
Seacue, I haven't asked them all but the ones I have researched say they have no plans to withdraw support for XP anti-virus and-anti malware..
Thread Starter
Would you expect your car manufacturer to retro-fit the latest security system to your clapped out old banger? Without it you're easy pickings for any thief, car jacker or joy rider who happens along. You wouldn't drive that around the seedier parts of town and the Internet is all seedy.
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Mr P., your remark not understood.
My car's had three annual services since I bought it and neither the ECC nor display/nav/bluetooth/net/security software has been updated (nor needed to be) as far as I can tell by looking at the version numbers on the screen.
How may updates have been issued for XP in that time ?
My car's had three annual services since I bought it and neither the ECC nor display/nav/bluetooth/net/security software has been updated (nor needed to be) as far as I can tell by looking at the version numbers on the screen.
How may updates have been issued for XP in that time ?
Thread Starter
Cars age a lot more slowly than computers and operating systems. XP is like driving something out of the 60s. Your three year old car is like a 6 month old laptop.
My point was you wouldn't expect the manufacturer to provide anything for your 60s banger.
My point was you wouldn't expect the manufacturer to provide anything for your 60s banger.
The difference between my old car ('70s actually) and an operating system is that there are third party manufacturers willing to support my car with spare parts. Particularly since it has become somewhat of a classic.
Ask Microsoft if they will place the XP code base into the public domain and let others support it. I can guess their answer.
Ask Microsoft if they will place the XP code base into the public domain and let others support it. I can guess their answer.
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Ask Microsoft if they will place the XP code base into the public domain and let others support it. I can guess their answer.
unrealistic. 
If you want open source (Linux) or mostly open source (OS X), then go that way.
Microsoft never have been and never will be an open source developer, nor are many other major software developers (e.g Adobe, other than their open source file formats e.g. PDF).
Put yourself into their shoes, they are private for-profit company, perfectly entitled to make their own decisions about their own intellectual property and when they cease support for an obsolete product.
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Mixture
In yesterday's podcast for a well known PC Magazine - the hoary chestnut of third party patches for the commonly used old XP Operating System - Read China ! came up as a proposition (I will confirm this - I need to listen again though).
XP's biggest limitation is its Memory address handling.
Microsoft could, if they had so wished, implemented 32 bit physical address extension. As supported by AMD & Intel on the Pentium Pro since mid the nineties.
Microsoft as a conventional profit orientated company (nothing wrong with that) chose the Win 7 & Win 8 route to "encourage" users en masse to purchase more kit.
Big problem - For many, functionality, familiarity and about good enough wins.
There are more XP - SP3 PC's around that Win 8 machines although this is changing.
Now the bad news for the PC tech brigade (me included) is that many users will make do with what they have for economic reasons.
A sensible route: but not the most profitable for MS is to continue to patch the Operating System for all until the XP user base is shrunk by inevitable attrition - say for three years. The working life for a traditional PC what ? 5 -6 years - I make them last longer.
If people think that the user base running XP are going to cease to run them on the internet after April 2014 are frankly deluded.
Many people just do not have the funds to buy the latest Tablets - The older PC's will be replaced in part by smart phone type devices in time.
Microsoft have set the deadline in their own interests - Come on folks I bet that the internal Patch infrastructure team, devoted XP; is only a small part of that allocated to Win 7, 8 and the Server products.
(This was typed on a system consisting of a: 2008 Advent Motherboard & case + Blu Ray DVD, Intel® Core™2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz × 4 - 6 Gigs of old ddr2 -400 Ram: purchased for £70.00 - I've added a Power supply and a Seagate 1/2 TB Sata - £48.00 inc VAT. Running Ubuntu 12.04. Cobbled together on Monday last.)
XP's biggest limitation is its Memory address handling.
Microsoft could, if they had so wished, implemented 32 bit physical address extension. As supported by AMD & Intel on the Pentium Pro since mid the nineties.
Microsoft as a conventional profit orientated company (nothing wrong with that) chose the Win 7 & Win 8 route to "encourage" users en masse to purchase more kit.
Big problem - For many, functionality, familiarity and about good enough wins.
There are more XP - SP3 PC's around that Win 8 machines although this is changing.
Now the bad news for the PC tech brigade (me included) is that many users will make do with what they have for economic reasons.
A sensible route: but not the most profitable for MS is to continue to patch the Operating System for all until the XP user base is shrunk by inevitable attrition - say for three years. The working life for a traditional PC what ? 5 -6 years - I make them last longer.
If people think that the user base running XP are going to cease to run them on the internet after April 2014 are frankly deluded.
Many people just do not have the funds to buy the latest Tablets - The older PC's will be replaced in part by smart phone type devices in time.
Microsoft have set the deadline in their own interests - Come on folks I bet that the internal Patch infrastructure team, devoted XP; is only a small part of that allocated to Win 7, 8 and the Server products.
(This was typed on a system consisting of a: 2008 Advent Motherboard & case + Blu Ray DVD, Intel® Core™2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz × 4 - 6 Gigs of old ddr2 -400 Ram: purchased for £70.00 - I've added a Power supply and a Seagate 1/2 TB Sata - £48.00 inc VAT. Running Ubuntu 12.04. Cobbled together on Monday last.)
Last edited by Guest 112233; 31st Oct 2013 at 07:57.
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Microsoft could, if they had so wished, implemented 32 bit physical address extension. As supported by AMD & Intel on the Pentium Pro since mid the nineties.
Microsoft as a conventional profit orientated company (nothing wrong with that) chose the Win 7 & Win 8 route to "encourage" users en masse to purchase more kit.
Microsoft as a conventional profit orientated company (nothing wrong with that) chose the Win 7 & Win 8 route to "encourage" users en masse to purchase more kit.
- There's all the complexity related to coding of the actual operating system
- There's all the third party software and hardware developers to think about
- 32 bit PAE is a hack, not a fix. That's why 64 bit OS is the way to go. XP does actually have a PAE mode anyway, its just not recommended for solid reasons.
- Yes, Windows XP was released in 2001, but development started in 1999 and the planning for development probably started a couple of years before that. The IT world has changed substantially in that short period of time, it makes perfect sense for release Windows 7/8 with its memory and other features now.... back then, the world was a different place, IT was not yet the commodity it is today and I don't think you could expect Microsoft to foresee the IT world like it is today.
A sensible route: but not the most profitable for MS is to continue to patch the Operating System for all until the XP user base is shrunk by inevitable attrition - say for three years.
Come on folks I bet that the internal Patch infrastructure team, devoted XP; is only a small part of that allocated to Win 7, 8 and the Server products.
Plus, the people moaning here on PPRuNe are people who've only made a one off payment to Microsoft for their XP license in the form of a minuscule OEM royalty fee. Those people have had astonishing value for money in terms of patches being provided free of charge for so many years.
Last edited by mixture; 31st Oct 2013 at 08:25.
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Mixture
I can only agree re the warnings - 5 years.
You have guessed it: All three of my XP copies were purchased. One was an upgrade from Win ME (There lies a story), and the other two were new builds.
[Edit: Good point. re many users - They would accept the OS as just part of the PC package when purchased]
What set me thinking, were the comments on the Magazine podcast - by someone who should know what they are talking about, was the intimate relationship between the anti - virus prods and the Operating System (I suspect this does not only apply to XP). Bearing in mind your previous comments, re API vulnerabilities, could third party patches work (we would probably have to pay !!!)
The biggi is, for those of us with valuable (in work terms) legacy software.
The other biggi: the time and trouble, many of us have taken in setting up reliable and tested backup systems.
I have used an early Ver of Acronis 8. Very successfully. Others have had problems - Norton Ghost has worked well on the systems I've used.
Cloud backup: the obvious choice for many has been undermined by recent revelations - Encrypted or not.
For ordinary bods (me) the upload time for a smallish busy personal system say 25-30 Giga Bytes took ages -
Downloads were more practical.
I know there's a fundamental difference between a "System Backup" and a repository of critical personal work.
Simplicity is best for many people: Windows 8 really does complicate things and therein lies the problem.
CAT III
You have guessed it: All three of my XP copies were purchased. One was an upgrade from Win ME (There lies a story), and the other two were new builds.
[Edit: Good point. re many users - They would accept the OS as just part of the PC package when purchased]
What set me thinking, were the comments on the Magazine podcast - by someone who should know what they are talking about, was the intimate relationship between the anti - virus prods and the Operating System (I suspect this does not only apply to XP). Bearing in mind your previous comments, re API vulnerabilities, could third party patches work (we would probably have to pay !!!)
The biggi is, for those of us with valuable (in work terms) legacy software.
The other biggi: the time and trouble, many of us have taken in setting up reliable and tested backup systems.
I have used an early Ver of Acronis 8. Very successfully. Others have had problems - Norton Ghost has worked well on the systems I've used.
Cloud backup: the obvious choice for many has been undermined by recent revelations - Encrypted or not.
For ordinary bods (me) the upload time for a smallish busy personal system say 25-30 Giga Bytes took ages -
Downloads were more practical.
I know there's a fundamental difference between a "System Backup" and a repository of critical personal work.
Simplicity is best for many people: Windows 8 really does complicate things and therein lies the problem.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 31st Oct 2013 at 10:05.
Plastic PPRuNer
"Ask Microsoft if they will place the XP code base into the public domain and let others support it."
XP is a real mess, disentangling that code would be a total nightmare!
You'd do better supporting ReactOS - ReactOS Project
Win7 is much cleaner and more stable
Bite the bullet!
Mac
PS: If you install Win98SE in a VM and strip it down you can make it pretty small and surprisingly stable - but of course it is totally insecure, don't let it near the 'Net!
XP is a real mess, disentangling that code would be a total nightmare!
You'd do better supporting ReactOS - ReactOS Project
Win7 is much cleaner and more stable
Bite the bullet!
Mac
PS: If you install Win98SE in a VM and strip it down you can make it pretty small and surprisingly stable - but of course it is totally insecure, don't let it near the 'Net!
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To Mac
Yep - we can wish - Something I forgot to mention when replying to Mixture's advice, as he/she said, as users we only see the tip of a very complex iceberg (its a long time since I coded commercially).
I bet this seems obvious and perhaps we will never know - just how well documented is the XP coding base, given its age and the conventions of 12 years ago. I would imagine the documentation base is enormous as well as the master code archives.
This would be a very complex task to take on for the open community.
The head ache is the gigantic user base.
As said earlier, normal attrition will take its toll of the XP user base as well as changes in patterns of ownership.
OK I'm one of the awkward squad for now, but I'm in a small minority. Some will go Win 7 or 8, others Mac and a lot more "Smart multifunction computing devices" and the odd % or so Linux.
Any Win 98 users still Extant?
I bet this seems obvious and perhaps we will never know - just how well documented is the XP coding base, given its age and the conventions of 12 years ago. I would imagine the documentation base is enormous as well as the master code archives.
This would be a very complex task to take on for the open community.
The head ache is the gigantic user base.
As said earlier, normal attrition will take its toll of the XP user base as well as changes in patterns of ownership.
OK I'm one of the awkward squad for now, but I'm in a small minority. Some will go Win 7 or 8, others Mac and a lot more "Smart multifunction computing devices" and the odd % or so Linux.
Any Win 98 users still Extant?