WinXP: only 6 months left
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
There's two separate issues here.
One is the legality, and it is not legal to install an OEM licensed copy of the software other than onto the PC where the OEM licence key & COA was originally located. It is not transferable from one PC to another.
As I understand it, besides getting an OEM licence with a new PC, you can buy a new OEM licence to install on a PC that you have built yourself, although this has always been a bit of a grey area. However, it must still be a new OEM licence - you can't buy a "2nd-hand" OEM licence.
The second is the purely technical - will it work? You're very much on your own there.
SD
One is the legality, and it is not legal to install an OEM licensed copy of the software other than onto the PC where the OEM licence key & COA was originally located. It is not transferable from one PC to another.
As I understand it, besides getting an OEM licence with a new PC, you can buy a new OEM licence to install on a PC that you have built yourself, although this has always been a bit of a grey area. However, it must still be a new OEM licence - you can't buy a "2nd-hand" OEM licence.
The second is the purely technical - will it work? You're very much on your own there.
SD
Microsoft need to maintain a revenue stream, its as simple as that.
I suppose the obvious analogy here is car manufacturers. Cars are designed to go 10-12 years now and then fall to bits, or more accurately now, electronically "die". Unservicability becomes regular, spares and repairs get increasingly time consuming and expensive. Eventually people just get a newer vehicle to stop the aggro.
Unfortunately many modern businesses have cottoned on to the concept of customers having to buy a 'subscription' to a product or service (much easier to keep tabs on people in this internet age). I suspect in the long run this sly marketing technique will yield them far more revenue (and the customer more expense) than just selling a product as a one off.
I suppose the obvious analogy here is car manufacturers. Cars are designed to go 10-12 years now and then fall to bits, or more accurately now, electronically "die". Unservicability becomes regular, spares and repairs get increasingly time consuming and expensive. Eventually people just get a newer vehicle to stop the aggro.
Unfortunately many modern businesses have cottoned on to the concept of customers having to buy a 'subscription' to a product or service (much easier to keep tabs on people in this internet age). I suspect in the long run this sly marketing technique will yield them far more revenue (and the customer more expense) than just selling a product as a one off.
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I have an absolutely legal end-user Win 7 Pro Installation disk and unused license number.
I tried to install it to replace Win XP Pro on a 5-yr-old Dell.
There was a diagnostic which said that the Dell was incompatible and something about ACPI. Maybe I'm supposed to flash the BIOS with a newer version. This Win XP PC is vital and I won't try flashing the BIOS until a suitable Win 7 PC is in house.
Am I too conservative about flashing the BIOS?
seacue
I tried to install it to replace Win XP Pro on a 5-yr-old Dell.
There was a diagnostic which said that the Dell was incompatible and something about ACPI. Maybe I'm supposed to flash the BIOS with a newer version. This Win XP PC is vital and I won't try flashing the BIOS until a suitable Win 7 PC is in house.
Am I too conservative about flashing the BIOS?
seacue
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Seacue, can you get hold of a different hard disk to install Win 7 on? That way you can go through all the troubleshooting confident in the knowledge that you have your original XP HDD securely available to go back to if you can't get 7 to play ball.
Most surprising that such a relative new PC should have problems with Win 7. I assume that it's on the Win 7 compatible / certified list?
I would look for and exhaust alternatives before flashing the BIOS, as there is always the possibility (however slight) of something going wrong. Googling the problem should provide you with a number of possible solutions.
SD
Most surprising that such a relative new PC should have problems with Win 7. I assume that it's on the Win 7 compatible / certified list?
I would look for and exhaust alternatives before flashing the BIOS, as there is always the possibility (however slight) of something going wrong. Googling the problem should provide you with a number of possible solutions.
SD
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seacue, would that be a Dell Inspiron 1420 by any chance as I had exactly the same issue with it when installing a standard W7 Professional.
I often aquire old laptops fix em up and give them away for free to people who would otherwise never buy a computer. In this case getting W7 Professional to install on this Dell was a real PITA.
From memory, I fiddled with BIOS, downloaded the latest drivers from Dell, but what I vaguely recall fixing it with was using a tool called something like Universal Windows Boot System (or something similar) to reformat the hard disk at low level and install a standard Master Boot Record. I have a feeling that Dell systems by default require Dell OEM W7 to install, and to defeat that you have to overwrite the ugly bits on the hard disk, maybe someone with more expertise with Dell could elaborate.
It took quite a while to get W7 Professional up and running, and after all that effort the W7 licence key I was provided didn't validate and was going to expire in 1 month. Buggah, so I stuck Linux on it instead
.
I often aquire old laptops fix em up and give them away for free to people who would otherwise never buy a computer. In this case getting W7 Professional to install on this Dell was a real PITA.
From memory, I fiddled with BIOS, downloaded the latest drivers from Dell, but what I vaguely recall fixing it with was using a tool called something like Universal Windows Boot System (or something similar) to reformat the hard disk at low level and install a standard Master Boot Record. I have a feeling that Dell systems by default require Dell OEM W7 to install, and to defeat that you have to overwrite the ugly bits on the hard disk, maybe someone with more expertise with Dell could elaborate.
It took quite a while to get W7 Professional up and running, and after all that effort the W7 licence key I was provided didn't validate and was going to expire in 1 month. Buggah, so I stuck Linux on it instead
.
Last edited by cattletruck; 3rd Nov 2013 at 23:07. Reason: Can't recall the source of the licence, and on reflection I think I used W7 Professional Server cd. Microsoft is no fun.
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The Dell is a Vostro 200 (or is it an Optiplex 330?) desktop. I'm miles / km from it and won't see it again until mid-week.
Thanks for the comments.
The Win7 I'm trying to install is from a disk directly from Microsoft via Techsoup. I've more-or-less switched to Linux myself, but the computer in question is for an employee who needs to be MS compatible without question and is barely computer literate.
seacue
Thanks for the comments.
The Win7 I'm trying to install is from a disk directly from Microsoft via Techsoup. I've more-or-less switched to Linux myself, but the computer in question is for an employee who needs to be MS compatible without question and is barely computer literate.
seacue
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As I understand it, besides getting an OEM licence with a new PC, you can buy a new OEM licence to install on a PC that you have built yourself, although this has always been a bit of a grey area. However, it must still be a new OEM licence - you can't buy a "2nd-hand" OEM licence.
*picks OEM license from shelf*
"To distribute the software or hardware in this pack you must be a System Builder and accept this license. "System Builder" means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the customer system(s) to a third party"
i.e. you're not licensed to use it yourself, it has to be sold on to a 3rd party before use.
(and yes, the disties and resellers flout this by selling to all and sundry).
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I have an absolutely legal end-user Win 7 Pro Installation disk and unused license number.
I tried to install it to replace Win XP Pro on a 5-yr-old Dell.
There was a diagnostic which said that the Dell was incompatible and something about ACPI. Maybe I'm supposed to flash the BIOS with a newer version. This Win XP PC is vital and I won't try flashing the BIOS until a suitable Win 7 PC is in house.
Am I too conservative about flashing the BIOS?
seacue
I tried to install it to replace Win XP Pro on a 5-yr-old Dell.
There was a diagnostic which said that the Dell was incompatible and something about ACPI. Maybe I'm supposed to flash the BIOS with a newer version. This Win XP PC is vital and I won't try flashing the BIOS until a suitable Win 7 PC is in house.
Am I too conservative about flashing the BIOS?
seacue
It's most probably just the setting for the hard drive mode, and will install perfectly well when set to the other setting.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Mike, you are right about the OEM licence up to and including win 7; however, Win 8 has a "Personal Use" licence that permits use of an OEM licence on a system built for oneself. This is what I was thinking about.
I still regard it as a "bit of a grey area", and I believe that MS would rather get the revenue from an OEM licence used on a homebuilt PC than no revenue at all.
It is strange to me that they haven't applied the "Personal use" licence to Win 7 - it couldn't be that they are desperate to force people to adopt 8... could it?
SD
I still regard it as a "bit of a grey area", and I believe that MS would rather get the revenue from an OEM licence used on a homebuilt PC than no revenue at all.
It is strange to me that they haven't applied the "Personal use" licence to Win 7 - it couldn't be that they are desperate to force people to adopt 8... could it?
SD
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Mike, you are right about the OEM licence up to and including win 7; however, Win 8 has a "Personal Use" licence that permits use of an OEM licence on a system built for oneself. This is what I was thinking about.
I still regard it as a "bit of a grey area", and I believe that MS would rather get the revenue from an OEM licence used on a homebuilt PC than no revenue at all.
It is strange to me that they haven't applied the "Personal use" licence to Win 7 - it couldn't be that they are desperate to force people to adopt 8... could it?
SD
I still regard it as a "bit of a grey area", and I believe that MS would rather get the revenue from an OEM licence used on a homebuilt PC than no revenue at all.
It is strange to me that they haven't applied the "Personal use" licence to Win 7 - it couldn't be that they are desperate to force people to adopt 8... could it?
SD
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Re OEM win7
Surely if you build a system yourself, as an assembler, you can sell it to your wife, for instance, for a nominal sum, say 1€, and then you have sold it to a third party.
Thus complying with the terms of the OEM licence.
Discuss.
Surely if you build a system yourself, as an assembler, you can sell it to your wife, for instance, for a nominal sum, say 1€, and then you have sold it to a third party.
Thus complying with the terms of the OEM licence.
Discuss.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
finncapt, I like your thinking.
As I say, it's a bit of a grey area, and in my view if you genuinely build a PC (as opposed to "buy a component") and buy an OEM license, MS are unlikely to quibble. I'm sure they are aware that it would be a PR disaster if they went after someone on that basis. There are far bigger targets for them to chase.
SD
As I say, it's a bit of a grey area, and in my view if you genuinely build a PC (as opposed to "buy a component") and buy an OEM license, MS are unlikely to quibble. I'm sure they are aware that it would be a PR disaster if they went after someone on that basis. There are far bigger targets for them to chase.
SD
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Surely if you build a system yourself, as an assembler, you can sell it to your wife, for instance, for a nominal sum, say 1€, and then you have sold it to a third party.
Thus complying with the terms of the OEM licence.
Thus complying with the terms of the OEM licence.
Look into how one becomes a System Builder..... you have to be a Microsoft Reseller and then activate the System Builder part of the reseller programme.
You can't just go call yourself a System Builder on a whim just because it suits your desires to bypass the licensing.
Go buy a retail FPP copy like you should.
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Mixture
Whilst I agree that a "system builder" may indeed require MS reseller registration or whatever, I do not see where that applies to an "assembler".
It is all fairly academic nowadays since I tend to use Linuxmint when I build a computer - it is faster, has a smaller footprint and doesn't seem to suffer from slow down with age.
A new build with mint can be up and running within a short time as there is no need to install all those drivers from the install cd, that comes with the motherboard.
Mint, and other linux systems, tend to have the necessary software, office suite web browser etc, already on the installation media, a usb stick.
One can also test a build as most Linux distributions will run from a usb stick even without there being a hard drive in the computer.
And then there is the virus issue!!!
The only time I now build an MS system is if the end user needs a gaming system - I tend to use an OEM copy of Win7 for those.
Whilst I agree that a "system builder" may indeed require MS reseller registration or whatever, I do not see where that applies to an "assembler".
It is all fairly academic nowadays since I tend to use Linuxmint when I build a computer - it is faster, has a smaller footprint and doesn't seem to suffer from slow down with age.
A new build with mint can be up and running within a short time as there is no need to install all those drivers from the install cd, that comes with the motherboard.
Mint, and other linux systems, tend to have the necessary software, office suite web browser etc, already on the installation media, a usb stick.
One can also test a build as most Linux distributions will run from a usb stick even without there being a hard drive in the computer.
And then there is the virus issue!!!
The only time I now build an MS system is if the end user needs a gaming system - I tend to use an OEM copy of Win7 for those.
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Hence the subsequent post from Saab pointing out the subtle change to the Win8 OEM licensing to include self-builders.
Hope that's clear now (despite it being OT for this thread)
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Just for those interested.
I'm not in not way connected with this organisation
I'm just on their EM listings, but this might be interesting:
https://www.virusbtn.com/blog/2013/10_21.xml
CAT III
I'm just on their EM listings, but this might be interesting:
https://www.virusbtn.com/blog/2013/10_21.xml
CAT III
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but this might be interesting
As I said in earlier in relation to anti-virus and any other third party software..... run it on top of an insecure OS with exploitable APIs and you're not achieving anything.
The answer is in the last phrase of the concluding paragraph of the article :
Or is it giving stubborn users of XP what may seem like a good reason to continue using the operating system
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To Mixture
The CAT III Procurement Dept has implemented it's new XP replacement Computer, a 2007 Vintage Advent Intel Core two Q8200 with 6 Gb of RAM, I've installed Ubuntu 12.04 64 Bit O/S and an Invidia Graphics (GT650 )card with 2 GB of ddr3.+ A 500 Gb Seagate Barracuda Sata drive (one that works) purchased separately. - Great Intel i3 Level performance + a bit more I think.
Lipstick on a Pig - I will run XP Applications in Virtual Box (Hopefully) - No Internet access.
Yep.- But all for £150 Quid.
CAT III
[Edit: no wireless but I've shoved an old BT Spatula USB Wireless connection - (It looks like a singular raised finger somehow) up one of the 6 USB ports in it rear. (After cleaning out the MB Glory be !!!! ]
[Extra Edit: Resting power consumption 85 W RMS]
Lipstick on a Pig - I will run XP Applications in Virtual Box (Hopefully) - No Internet access.
Yep.- But all for £150 Quid.
CAT III
[Edit: no wireless but I've shoved an old BT Spatula USB Wireless connection - (It looks like a singular raised finger somehow) up one of the 6 USB ports in it rear. (After cleaning out the MB Glory be !!!! ]
[Extra Edit: Resting power consumption 85 W RMS]
Last edited by Guest 112233; 6th Nov 2013 at 19:56.
