New buy, PC or MAC?
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TightSlot might unwillingly have given the impression that Macs are no good for professional use and that use is restricted to internet, email, photos and DVD-watching. This, of course, is not (no longer) the case
Upto The Buffers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Leeds/Bradford
Age: 48
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OSX can get as techy as you want it to. Yes, it looks good, it's user-friendly, it's stable, it's well thought-out, but from a geek perspective it has one huge and insurmountably superior trump card:
bash
Sorry Microsoft, but for power users "command prompt" doesn't even come close.
OSX 1-0 Vista
bash
Sorry Microsoft, but for power users "command prompt" doesn't even come close.
OSX 1-0 Vista
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PersonalTitle to help support PPRuNe against legal bullying.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little knowledge is not enough....
Before conclusions are drawn, remember that command interface "bash" means Born Again SHell which is an extension of the Bourne Shell (sh) and maybe the Korn SHell (ksh) depending on how you look at it.
All these shells come from older versions of Unix from many platforms, Apple just stole the ideas from someone else by including a well known command line interface, so please stop this rubbish about M/S taking other people's ideas. Funny how none of the Mac heads know that Leopard took technology from Sun (with permission), as they are so blinded by their own righteousness that they can't imagine that Apple does EXACTLY the same thing as M/S.
I'm happy to let people choose their own OS, but just as I can't stand born again christians who act in a superior way once blinded by their faith - I also cannot abide born again Mac users who are so blinded by their Macs that they think Apple invented all the good things they find in OSX.
Go buy your Macs if you like, but get off the holier-than-thou soap-box-bandwaggon. You think it's so great you can pop into a virtual windows environment but from everything I have seen (trying to work with Mac heads) these virtual windows environments are pretty limited in their abilities; fine if you only need to run one windows app once in a while but otherwise quite pants.
I've worked on over 21 operating systems - each had its plus points, so anyone who trys to tell me that one is better than the other (the Mac or Linux is better than Windoze argument is as cr*p as the Airbus Boeing one) is just inexperienced.
Why are so Many Macs in the Movies we see, cos Apple pays for product placement just like Silicon Graphics paid to get their boxes in the Jurassic Park movie. Also most people seem to think Macs look good (not me) so that explains the "image" created for certain Mac using characters in films.
Please spread the word on Mac if you are happy, but don't do it by saying PCs always crash and Macs don't, or that M/S is evil and just steal ideas but Apple does not etc. Those are just shallow one sided urban myths
I'd love Win* to be better, but boy, the choice it gives me is HUGE
edited for spelling
All these shells come from older versions of Unix from many platforms, Apple just stole the ideas from someone else by including a well known command line interface, so please stop this rubbish about M/S taking other people's ideas. Funny how none of the Mac heads know that Leopard took technology from Sun (with permission), as they are so blinded by their own righteousness that they can't imagine that Apple does EXACTLY the same thing as M/S.
I'm happy to let people choose their own OS, but just as I can't stand born again christians who act in a superior way once blinded by their faith - I also cannot abide born again Mac users who are so blinded by their Macs that they think Apple invented all the good things they find in OSX.
Go buy your Macs if you like, but get off the holier-than-thou soap-box-bandwaggon. You think it's so great you can pop into a virtual windows environment but from everything I have seen (trying to work with Mac heads) these virtual windows environments are pretty limited in their abilities; fine if you only need to run one windows app once in a while but otherwise quite pants.
I've worked on over 21 operating systems - each had its plus points, so anyone who trys to tell me that one is better than the other (the Mac or Linux is better than Windoze argument is as cr*p as the Airbus Boeing one) is just inexperienced.
Why are so Many Macs in the Movies we see, cos Apple pays for product placement just like Silicon Graphics paid to get their boxes in the Jurassic Park movie. Also most people seem to think Macs look good (not me) so that explains the "image" created for certain Mac using characters in films.
Please spread the word on Mac if you are happy, but don't do it by saying PCs always crash and Macs don't, or that M/S is evil and just steal ideas but Apple does not etc. Those are just shallow one sided urban myths
I'd love Win* to be better, but boy, the choice it gives me is HUGE
edited for spelling
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apple just stole the ideas from someone else
This PC v Mac can go on and on like the Integrated v Modular thread or Airbus v Boeing as you mentioned. Neither is better than the other ... they are simply different and appeal to a certain customer.
Try telling Singapore Airlines they made a mistake with the 380 and should have waited for a 787 ... I think they are happy with what they have.
But the fact of the matter is for everyday living, surfing the net, playing music, etc or even editing a picture or two in Photoshop editing a video in Final Cut then a Mac might be the reliable option.
I am sure the original poster has enough information here to pick what his best for his needs.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No need to get all worked up there, cowboy.
First of all, it's not a VIRTUAL windows environment, it's an ACTUAL windows environment (on the Intel-based Macs anyway) and secondly :
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...s/article.html
You think it's so great you can pop into a virtual windows environment but from everything I have seen (trying to work with Mac heads) these virtual windows environments are pretty limited in their abilities; fine if you only need to run one windows app once in a while but otherwise quite pants.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...s/article.html
PersonalTitle to help support PPRuNe against legal bullying.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
then a Mac might be the reliable option
In this thread, one person quoted bash as being a Mac great thing and another ranted about M/S lack of innovation - I took the 2 items and showed that Mac just took an already well known shell and made it availlable on thier kit, thus killing both arguments DEAD. There may well be other shells such as ksh, csh also on your Macs, if not you Mac is rubbish for Command Line Interface choice. I don't care about this on my PC as if I need these shells I can GET THEM FOR FREE IF I WANT THEM
I never said the GUI was stolen (help me as to who in the world would even want to steal THAT pukey Mac GUI theme anyway!!!!!) so stop putting words into my mouth
Too right - the original poster has info to make a choice, balanced and accurate info.
PersonalTitle to help support PPRuNe against legal bullying.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all, it's not a VIRTUAL windows environment, it's an ACTUAL windows environment
PersonalTitle to help support PPRuNe against legal bullying.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You ARE kidding?
+200 No Flags
I just looked at your link - I'm dying of laughter, AS IF you could run a test WITH ANY RELEVANCE to joe public about which laptop was the best performer - you have to specify the use scenario and what tools are installed and running.
If you trust that review you deserve all you get. I do perf tests for a living mate
I just looked at your link - I'm dying of laughter, AS IF you could run a test WITH ANY RELEVANCE to joe public about which laptop was the best performer - you have to specify the use scenario and what tools are installed and running.
If you trust that review you deserve all you get. I do perf tests for a living mate
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if Mac take something and make it better is this a bad thing?
Microsloth 'steal' without the permission from Apple and just can't make it work.
As you said Apple 'took' the idea from Sun with permission and improved it.
There are plenty of things that have been taken and improved upon in this world, it's not a crime it's evolution.
As for the GUI being 'pukey' are you telling me you're still using DOS?
Microsloth 'steal' without the permission from Apple and just can't make it work.
As you said Apple 'took' the idea from Sun with permission and improved it.
There are plenty of things that have been taken and improved upon in this world, it's not a crime it's evolution.
As for the GUI being 'pukey' are you telling me you're still using DOS?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Country
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well personally having had Windows machines for years I've now converted entirely to Mac.
I still use MS Office and if I really need to use a program that isn't available on a Mac I simply run it on Parallels (the only program I actually run regularly is Front Page)
I do find that with Mac's I just get on and use them - I was getting a wee bit fed up with all the security issues and constant downloading of upgrades for virus scanners and the like on my PC.
But I suppose that as Mac's become more popular the security issues will grow and then I may make the leap to Linux....
I still use MS Office and if I really need to use a program that isn't available on a Mac I simply run it on Parallels (the only program I actually run regularly is Front Page)
I do find that with Mac's I just get on and use them - I was getting a wee bit fed up with all the security issues and constant downloading of upgrades for virus scanners and the like on my PC.
But I suppose that as Mac's become more popular the security issues will grow and then I may make the leap to Linux....
I think I mentioned OS X's historic links to BSD, via NEXTSTEP, on a different thread. Apple can take no credit for the underlying UNIX architecture, shells and core utilities.
Apple didn't write bash, and don't control it - it's Open Source software. It's not the only shell, but it is the most common one, on Linux systems too. The choice of shell is only really important if you do shell scripting: if you're just launching programs, you may as well use the 30-y.o. sh.
You can even get a bash environment for Windows, if you want it - see Cygwin. Microsoft haven't been standing still, either, they've developed PowerShell, which is arguably more powerful than bash for e.g. text processing. I can see how Microsoft could be accused of "borrowing" bits of the OS X look for Vista, e.g. the sidebar. If so, they haven't done themselves any favours: Vista is also a bit pukey-looking in my estimation.
As I said before - I think people should pick the best tool for the job, and that could well be a Mac. e.g. if I was a working musician who needed something to use on stage. It's a lot of money, though, so I'd recommend the original poster keeps his eyes open, and not be swayed by Apple's expert marketing. Claims that a Mac has any inherent superiority don't hold any water with me, and I'm especially put off by the patronising attitude that some Mac users have, as if I'm not "enlightened" because I haven't joined their cult. I like the idea of a UNIX-based system, but I have that already, on industry standard hardware, at no software cost: Linux. I'm not paying hundreds extra for a slightly fancier-looking GUI - which is really all that Apple is offering me. Your mileage may vary.
Apple didn't write bash, and don't control it - it's Open Source software. It's not the only shell, but it is the most common one, on Linux systems too. The choice of shell is only really important if you do shell scripting: if you're just launching programs, you may as well use the 30-y.o. sh.
You can even get a bash environment for Windows, if you want it - see Cygwin. Microsoft haven't been standing still, either, they've developed PowerShell, which is arguably more powerful than bash for e.g. text processing. I can see how Microsoft could be accused of "borrowing" bits of the OS X look for Vista, e.g. the sidebar. If so, they haven't done themselves any favours: Vista is also a bit pukey-looking in my estimation.
As I said before - I think people should pick the best tool for the job, and that could well be a Mac. e.g. if I was a working musician who needed something to use on stage. It's a lot of money, though, so I'd recommend the original poster keeps his eyes open, and not be swayed by Apple's expert marketing. Claims that a Mac has any inherent superiority don't hold any water with me, and I'm especially put off by the patronising attitude that some Mac users have, as if I'm not "enlightened" because I haven't joined their cult. I like the idea of a UNIX-based system, but I have that already, on industry standard hardware, at no software cost: Linux. I'm not paying hundreds extra for a slightly fancier-looking GUI - which is really all that Apple is offering me. Your mileage may vary.
Last edited by bnt; 18th Nov 2007 at 18:24.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So getting away from the deep IT issues. It's back to the original post;
Lets keep the thread on subject guys, it's not a PC v Mac debate it's a computer buyer wondering if spending all that money is going to be worth it.
He's impressed with the Mac he saw in PC World (Of which most of the workers use Mac's too) and wants a computer for dealing with media files and surfing the net.
Still using my old viao laptop and am looking to buy a new computer this xmas. I was looking at a PC until the bright spark in PCWorld showed off the new MAc to me, must admit most impressed.
Looks like the right sort of thing, just need it for internet, photos, music etc etc.
Looks like the right sort of thing, just need it for internet, photos, music etc etc.
He's impressed with the Mac he saw in PC World (Of which most of the workers use Mac's too) and wants a computer for dealing with media files and surfing the net.
PersonalTitle to help support PPRuNe against legal bullying.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If that's the spec (just needed for internet music and photos) a PC is better for a wider choice of both in applications and hardware provider. If poor choice of applications and hardware is an acceptable loss for this guy in order to get a gain in predicatability, then a Mac is better.
If the Mac users showed more balance in their enthusiam for Apple, then people like me would not feel the need to cut holes in their biased arguments of Mac being best, and the thread would not degenerate into PC vs Mac. Windows users are typically more mature in this type of debate as they are much more ready to accept Windows has faults. This is actually important when making a computer choice, as if you were buying a car and one salesman told you the good things about 2 cars and another told you all the bad things about the same 2 cars, then you would trust the latter, right?
Alpha Male - I never said Apple improved anything they licensed from Sun, I just noted that they took superior technolology (ZFS) from elsewhere in the same way as do M/S in order to try and put some level argument into this thread - but as there are not enough Mac bashers out there, this type of fact that shows Apple as being as bad as M/S goes largely unnoticed and unknown. If people can bash (no shell pun intended) M/S for this action then I can bash Apple for it too. Let me know via PM what Apple got from Sun and then "improved"....
If the Mac users showed more balance in their enthusiam for Apple, then people like me would not feel the need to cut holes in their biased arguments of Mac being best, and the thread would not degenerate into PC vs Mac. Windows users are typically more mature in this type of debate as they are much more ready to accept Windows has faults. This is actually important when making a computer choice, as if you were buying a car and one salesman told you the good things about 2 cars and another told you all the bad things about the same 2 cars, then you would trust the latter, right?
Alpha Male - I never said Apple improved anything they licensed from Sun, I just noted that they took superior technolology (ZFS) from elsewhere in the same way as do M/S in order to try and put some level argument into this thread - but as there are not enough Mac bashers out there, this type of fact that shows Apple as being as bad as M/S goes largely unnoticed and unknown. If people can bash (no shell pun intended) M/S for this action then I can bash Apple for it too. Let me know via PM what Apple got from Sun and then "improved"....
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can these people be wrong?
Apple v Microsloth
Debunking the price myth: Apple vs. Dell
tallsandwich you're turning this back into a PC v Mac debate?!? I'm not sayig they impoved ZFS but using ZFS technology in a Mac is an improvement to the computer world IMO.
Would you say it's wrong that Audi are 'taking with permission' the 10-cylinder FSI engine from a Lamborghini to put it in an Audi S8? or would you tell them they are wrong to use parts from the Lamborghini Gallardo to put in an R8 (I'm sure you've seen the advert on TV).
If Sun and Apple work together to improve a product then that's good. If however Apple decided to take the ZFS idea and make a half hearted effort to copy it then sell it to the public as a beta version then that WOULD be wrong. aka Microsoft Vista.
Apple v Microsloth
Debunking the price myth: Apple vs. Dell
tallsandwich you're turning this back into a PC v Mac debate?!? I'm not sayig they impoved ZFS but using ZFS technology in a Mac is an improvement to the computer world IMO.
Would you say it's wrong that Audi are 'taking with permission' the 10-cylinder FSI engine from a Lamborghini to put it in an Audi S8? or would you tell them they are wrong to use parts from the Lamborghini Gallardo to put in an R8 (I'm sure you've seen the advert on TV).
If Sun and Apple work together to improve a product then that's good. If however Apple decided to take the ZFS idea and make a half hearted effort to copy it then sell it to the public as a beta version then that WOULD be wrong. aka Microsoft Vista.
Thread Starter
Well, i knew this would get some people a bit overheated, some of the arguements well over the top of my head.
Am looking for a desk top for reasonably basic use (as tightslot says).
Really wanted to know if Macs were worth the extra money, as i seem to be able to get a higher spec pc for less dosh. (may have just answered my own question)!!!
Thanks to all
Am looking for a desk top for reasonably basic use (as tightslot says).
Really wanted to know if Macs were worth the extra money, as i seem to be able to get a higher spec pc for less dosh. (may have just answered my own question)!!!
Thanks to all
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really wanted to know if Macs were worth the extra money
Compare a PC like for like with an Apple and you'll find the Apple as the same price if not cheaper.
Want to buy a Mac Mini?
I'll do you a good price...
Only thing that is wrong with the above is it needs a £40 HD
that you can fit yourself as seen hereMiniMac v Dell PC
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alpha Male....
I think this example is illustrative.
This was without 'shopping around' the various PC manufacturers
I only visited the Mesh website for the PC, and the Apple website for the Mac:
20in iMac.
20in Monitor
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (dual core CPU)
1GB RAM
250GB HD
128MB ATi HD2400XT graphics
Price: 799 UKP (incl VAT)
Mesh:
22in Monitor
2.4GHz Core 2 Quad Q6600 (quad core CPU)
4GB RAM
500GB HD
256MB Nvidia 8500GT
Price 799 UKP (incl VAT)
I know which one looks like better value to me!
I think this example is illustrative.
This was without 'shopping around' the various PC manufacturers
I only visited the Mesh website for the PC, and the Apple website for the Mac:
20in iMac.
20in Monitor
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (dual core CPU)
1GB RAM
250GB HD
128MB ATi HD2400XT graphics
Price: 799 UKP (incl VAT)
Mesh:
22in Monitor
2.4GHz Core 2 Quad Q6600 (quad core CPU)
4GB RAM
500GB HD
256MB Nvidia 8500GT
Price 799 UKP (incl VAT)
I know which one looks like better value to me!