Broadband disconnect with rain
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: UK
Broadband disconnect with rain
Unlikely as it sounds, I have a persistent disconnection every 2 minutes when there is heavy rain with about 10-15 miles of here. 'Give me sunshine' - and I have a solid connection. Storm clouds gather, off it goes. WIFI or wired. My ISP has been good so far in chasing this but I seek some ideas.
Today BT came out to check. Day - sunny. Line PERFECT. Checked in the house and at the exchange. I assume there is an underground cable somewhere that gets wet - but how do I progress this?
Today BT came out to check. Day - sunny. Line PERFECT. Checked in the house and at the exchange. I assume there is an underground cable somewhere that gets wet - but how do I progress this?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 594
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From: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
I suffered exactly the same problem, except whenever it rained not only would broadband be affected but the line become barely usable and intercepted neighbours telephone calls.
Persistance from ourselves and our neighbours and calls whenever heavy rain came eventually caused them to check the line. Apparently on some lines you can dial 17070 to check the line audiably.
Persistance from ourselves and our neighbours and calls whenever heavy rain came eventually caused them to check the line. Apparently on some lines you can dial 17070 to check the line audiably.
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Twickenham, home of rugby
BOAC,
We used to have a similar problem with the BT connection - although this was before broadband. Whenever there was heavy rain, the line detiorated or dropped entirely. Was enormously frustrating with dial-up internet access being the first to fail.
Only persistent complaints did any good - eventually our incoming copper line and termination box were replaced. Problem seems to be solved.
The legacy - I swore blind to have nothing to do with BT again, which is why I have cable broadband.
SD
We used to have a similar problem with the BT connection - although this was before broadband. Whenever there was heavy rain, the line detiorated or dropped entirely. Was enormously frustrating with dial-up internet access being the first to fail.
Only persistent complaints did any good - eventually our incoming copper line and termination box were replaced. Problem seems to be solved.
The legacy - I swore blind to have nothing to do with BT again, which is why I have cable broadband.
SD
TheVillagePhotographer.co.uk
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,078
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From: Cotswolds UK
Many years ago, I had a similar experience to Saab and after some increasingly pointed conversations with BT, who claimed that they could see no fault (They always arrived in Sunshine - Swines) got them to change the lead from the old telegraph pole and the main connection box, at which point, they found where the damp got in. Voila! all cured.
Conan
Conan
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Ask the tower !
Ahhhh our friends at BT....
I get exactly as you mention. If there is a storm in the area, I lose my connection every 4 minutes. You can set your watch by it. When I asked BT about it (which in itself once took 3hrs to get through), they said storms may have an effect on the line. When asked about why the phone still works. silence fell upon the call......
Different topic, although sticking with BT, my Outlook Express somehow lost it's logon details. I tried to get it working again and failed. I called BT for "email help". After spending 30 minutes on the phone to a woman in India, she told me "Sir, your settings have changed and you should go to PC World and get an engineer to back up your data and re-install Outlook Express. That will cure the problem. Are you happy with the service provided Sir"....
I replied "No, goodbye."
I then called BT back and spoke to another person, in India, and after about 30 minutes, he sorted the problem. McAfee had apparently duplicated a file within Outlook Express. He deleted it remotely, rebooted, and bingo......
So, the moral of the story is........just hope it doesn't rain and use webmail
I get exactly as you mention. If there is a storm in the area, I lose my connection every 4 minutes. You can set your watch by it. When I asked BT about it (which in itself once took 3hrs to get through), they said storms may have an effect on the line. When asked about why the phone still works. silence fell upon the call......
Different topic, although sticking with BT, my Outlook Express somehow lost it's logon details. I tried to get it working again and failed. I called BT for "email help". After spending 30 minutes on the phone to a woman in India, she told me "Sir, your settings have changed and you should go to PC World and get an engineer to back up your data and re-install Outlook Express. That will cure the problem. Are you happy with the service provided Sir"....
I replied "No, goodbye."
I then called BT back and spoke to another person, in India, and after about 30 minutes, he sorted the problem. McAfee had apparently duplicated a file within Outlook Express. He deleted it remotely, rebooted, and bingo......
So, the moral of the story is........just hope it doesn't rain and use webmail
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
Ta all. The line from road to house was replaced about 6 years ago by BT when I went 'second line' for a while before broadband rode into town. I have a smart new 'brown' cable coming into the master now. The 'storm clouds' that seem to cause the problem need not be within 5 miles of me. How do I get BT to track down the offending cable/junction?
Does my wonderful 'Gates' machine log my connection history and if so where will I find it? WinXP SP2.
Does my wonderful 'Gates' machine log my connection history and if so where will I find it? WinXP SP2.
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
Still getting random days when I have lots of disconnections. Now't to do with rain HERE but still when there are storm clouds around. My ISP tells me that there is now a possibility that BT may wish to 'downgrade' my line!!
I can feel a rage coming on.
I can feel a rage coming on.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
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From: Chabanais, France
Had a similar problem when my 'high speed' download was via a satellite dish, any time heavy rain came out went the connection.
Could it be that your ISP is using satellite dishes as a part of the loop and this where the problem is?
Could it be that your ISP is using satellite dishes as a part of the loop and this where the problem is?
Oh Shazbat!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 239
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From: Leeds, UK
BOAC, Parabellum,
I would suggest it's not likely to be satellite for BT due to their huge wire infrastructure.
BOAC - It depends where you live and how long the various pipes & cables have been there. One possible cause is that the various folks who dig up roads & pavements have hit the BT lines along the way. When cable was installed in our area, the contractors were a tad cavalier about where & how they dug - they cut off all the BT phone lines on our close which took a major job to resplice them. They also caused electrical supply problems that took a few years to manifest themselves, and while the local supply company could see the symptoms of the problem, in tracing the fault they ended up fixing three separate problems caused by the cable contractors.
If this is the case then the only route to you is to keep pestering BT every time the fault occurs until they get the message. When I last spoke to BT support they were able to run a remote test on the line while I was on - it's not specific enough to tell them the cause, but it can prove that the line is faulty (in these cases they tend to blame your equipment first )
Keep plugging away and feel free to write letters to the management - that usually gets a response
I would suggest it's not likely to be satellite for BT due to their huge wire infrastructure.
BOAC - It depends where you live and how long the various pipes & cables have been there. One possible cause is that the various folks who dig up roads & pavements have hit the BT lines along the way. When cable was installed in our area, the contractors were a tad cavalier about where & how they dug - they cut off all the BT phone lines on our close which took a major job to resplice them. They also caused electrical supply problems that took a few years to manifest themselves, and while the local supply company could see the symptoms of the problem, in tracing the fault they ended up fixing three separate problems caused by the cable contractors.
If this is the case then the only route to you is to keep pestering BT every time the fault occurs until they get the message. When I last spoke to BT support they were able to run a remote test on the line while I was on - it's not specific enough to tell them the cause, but it can prove that the line is faulty (in these cases they tend to blame your equipment first
)Keep plugging away and feel free to write letters to the management - that usually gets a response
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
keep pestering BT every time the fault occurs until they get the message. When I last spoke to BT support they were able to run a remote test on the line while I was on
Do you have a way of directly contacting the department that can do the line test in BT?
Oh Shazbat!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 239
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From: Leeds, UK
BOAC,
Oh the joys of deregulation and getting to who owns what.
When you put the broadband connection in - did you rent the line from BT & then get your internet connection separately? Or was it all in one deal from the ISP?
If you have a separate line rental agreement with BT (I assume it is BT as your first post says that BT did the tests) then the BT website gives you numbers to call if the line has a problem. By the way - if the line is one with a phone point, do you normally get a dialtone on it and if so then when your Internet connection fails in the rain, you can test for the dial tone as well as a check for line issues.
If it is an all in one agreement and you have to conduct business via the ISP support line, I would suggest writing to the management at the ISP and explaining (1) the issue you have and that (2) you cannot be paying 75p a minute to repeatedly log the calls as this is one continous issue and ask for a call ticket number & a phone number that you can call.
Let us know how you get on. At the risk of getting shot down - which ISP is it?
Oh the joys of deregulation and getting to who owns what.
When you put the broadband connection in - did you rent the line from BT & then get your internet connection separately? Or was it all in one deal from the ISP?
If you have a separate line rental agreement with BT (I assume it is BT as your first post says that BT did the tests) then the BT website gives you numbers to call if the line has a problem. By the way - if the line is one with a phone point, do you normally get a dialtone on it and if so then when your Internet connection fails in the rain, you can test for the dial tone as well as a check for line issues.
If it is an all in one agreement and you have to conduct business via the ISP support line, I would suggest writing to the management at the ISP and explaining (1) the issue you have and that (2) you cannot be paying 75p a minute to repeatedly log the calls as this is one continous issue and ask for a call ticket number & a phone number that you can call.
Let us know how you get on. At the risk of getting shot down - which ISP is it?
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
Originally BT line with 
AOL broadband. Then to another company (still BT line) now with 'Telecom Plus' trading as 'Utility Warehouse' on an 'all-in'one' calls/rental/b-band' deal. No BT rental. ISP is Mistral via afore-mentioned. Not SURE why BT have to do the b/band checks but that is what I have been told. Your para 5 noted and will be done - thanks.
At no time when I have had the b/band drops has the voice line been affected. Out of interest, loads of rain this am, but no disconnections??
Will report progress.
AOL broadband. Then to another company (still BT line) now with 'Telecom Plus' trading as 'Utility Warehouse' on an 'all-in'one' calls/rental/b-band' deal. No BT rental. ISP is Mistral via afore-mentioned. Not SURE why BT have to do the b/band checks but that is what I have been told. Your para 5 noted and will be done - thanks.At no time when I have had the b/band drops has the voice line been affected. Out of interest, loads of rain this am, but no disconnections??
Will report progress.
Oh Shazbat!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Leeds, UK
BOAC,
I'm not 100% (only 99.9%) on the BT angle (I work for a different telco), but unless you are with a cable company then BT owns the lines between your house & the exchange. Some ISPs only rent you the time on their network and you have to rent the line itself from BT, and some ISPs have done a deal with BT to pay the line rental on your behalf (you'll see BT OpenReach which is the bit of BT that supports this). Either way - the end company responsible for the wires between the exchange and your house is BT, that's why they get to do the diagnostics.
As an aside you'll see items in the news whereby BT are having to allow ISPs to install their own equipment at the exchanges at some point real soon. This is why they are setting up OpenReach.
As for the failure - any high speed links like your broadband between your house and BT are still running down the old copper wires that have been there since time began (even new properties have the same quality telephone cable). However the physical signal demands of high speed working are a lot more susceptible to tiny changes in line quality unlike the voice lines which can take a lot more abuse. It could be that the dampness is affecting the noise characteristics of the line from time to time which is why your broadband goes for a hike.
I hope you get it fixed soon
I'm not 100% (only 99.9%) on the BT angle (I work for a different telco), but unless you are with a cable company then BT owns the lines between your house & the exchange. Some ISPs only rent you the time on their network and you have to rent the line itself from BT, and some ISPs have done a deal with BT to pay the line rental on your behalf (you'll see BT OpenReach which is the bit of BT that supports this). Either way - the end company responsible for the wires between the exchange and your house is BT, that's why they get to do the diagnostics.
As an aside you'll see items in the news whereby BT are having to allow ISPs to install their own equipment at the exchanges at some point real soon. This is why they are setting up OpenReach.
As for the failure - any high speed links like your broadband between your house and BT are still running down the old copper wires that have been there since time began (even new properties have the same quality telephone cable). However the physical signal demands of high speed working are a lot more susceptible to tiny changes in line quality unlike the voice lines which can take a lot more abuse. It could be that the dampness is affecting the noise characteristics of the line from time to time which is why your broadband goes for a hike.
I hope you get it fixed soon
Recidivist
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,240
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From: Essex, UK
All of which goes out of the window if you happen to live on the same estate as my mate - no copper wires, just fibre optic - nobody can have broadband!
Probably seemed like a good idea at the time.
Probably seemed like a good idea at the time.
Wurzel's Brother
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: midlands, uk
You need to keep on badgering BT!
It sounds like an underground joint (where two masses of wires of join up) has become split. The seal around the joint is made up of paper and a jelly like vaseline encased in a rubber 'cover'. If there is any ingress of water then it will affect the physical copper connections.
It won't affect your voice calls to much but will add to the resistivity of the data traffic - consequently the line looses strength and the data packets are affected. Not to sure why the problem would manifest itself regularly (ie. every two minutes) unless there is standing water 'lapping' around. That one is harder to explain!
However it could take them a long time to find the problem as they'll have to depend on lots of faults being logged which by analysis will show where the 'last point of pefect' connection was. They'll then be able to say - with some certainty - that it is the next joint which is the problem.
Nav
It sounds like an underground joint (where two masses of wires of join up) has become split. The seal around the joint is made up of paper and a jelly like vaseline encased in a rubber 'cover'. If there is any ingress of water then it will affect the physical copper connections.
It won't affect your voice calls to much but will add to the resistivity of the data traffic - consequently the line looses strength and the data packets are affected. Not to sure why the problem would manifest itself regularly (ie. every two minutes) unless there is standing water 'lapping' around. That one is harder to explain!
However it could take them a long time to find the problem as they'll have to depend on lots of faults being logged which by analysis will show where the 'last point of pefect' connection was. They'll then be able to say - with some certainty - that it is the next joint which is the problem.
Nav
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: manchester
seen the same problem at a plant hire co near me. every time it rained the line stopped.
eventually after many engineers call outs, they replaced the junction box on the flat roof, new bit of wire and hey presto, no more problems.
eventually after many engineers call outs, they replaced the junction box on the flat roof, new bit of wire and hey presto, no more problems.
Oh Shazbat!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 239
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From: Leeds, UK
Frostbite - does your mate live in a village several miles from the nearest town?
Optical should give broadband to the area as the line is digital anyway, but if your pal lives in a rural area then it's more likely that BT don't want to pay yet for putting broadband kit in the exchange. In cases like this you get 400 mates to sign on the BT web site asking if broadband is available at that postcode, then they think that there is enough demand.
If he lives in a town then I think someone may not be telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Optical should give broadband to the area as the line is digital anyway, but if your pal lives in a rural area then it's more likely that BT don't want to pay yet for putting broadband kit in the exchange. In cases like this you get 400 mates to sign on the BT web site asking if broadband is available at that postcode, then they think that there is enough demand.
If he lives in a town then I think someone may not be telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
a_a - no o/heads nearby.
I have just spoken to Mistral tech support who were v helpful and we have agreed they will run traceping if and when I start to get the discons again. Hopefully this might track the problem down.
I have just spoken to Mistral tech support who were v helpful and we have agreed they will run traceping if and when I start to get the discons again. Hopefully this might track the problem down.