Flying South America
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Flying South America
Hi, We're planning to purchase a C182 in USA in the Autumn and fly down to Argentina over a couple of months. The aircraft will be "N" reg and I have a FAA PPL IR and abt 1000 hours. We'll take our time and don't plan on pushing the weather envelope.
Our planned route down is ex Florida and across to Guyana - Brazil - Uruguay. Any advice on routes, procedures, overflights, airports, restrictions and dealing with officialdom would be most welcome.
Dusty
Our planned route down is ex Florida and across to Guyana - Brazil - Uruguay. Any advice on routes, procedures, overflights, airports, restrictions and dealing with officialdom would be most welcome.
Dusty
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Clarion,
Sorry to ask, what is your Ferry range? I realy do not know for the 182.
I do a lot of Ferry flights up and down. From Guyana, I'd recomend Belem as AOE, there is a good imigration there, the we can work your way down in Brazil.
If you want sight seeing, go via seashore because it is beautiful, but will increase your Trip in at Least one day. I'd say it Worths!
If you wanna make it faster you may fly Belem, Palmas, Belo Horizonte, Sao Jose dos Campos (easy transit close to Sao Paulo), Florianopolis, Porto Alegre, Montevideo (Carrasco) and Aeroparque... Just a guess, i am thinking in a 800NM range or so. If it is less, we can work it out.
Remember, this is a suggestion and you are the solo responsable for your Planning. (no liability for ME here, ok?)
All the best,
Sydy
Sorry to ask, what is your Ferry range? I realy do not know for the 182.
I do a lot of Ferry flights up and down. From Guyana, I'd recomend Belem as AOE, there is a good imigration there, the we can work your way down in Brazil.
If you want sight seeing, go via seashore because it is beautiful, but will increase your Trip in at Least one day. I'd say it Worths!
If you wanna make it faster you may fly Belem, Palmas, Belo Horizonte, Sao Jose dos Campos (easy transit close to Sao Paulo), Florianopolis, Porto Alegre, Montevideo (Carrasco) and Aeroparque... Just a guess, i am thinking in a 800NM range or so. If it is less, we can work it out.
Remember, this is a suggestion and you are the solo responsable for your Planning. (no liability for ME here, ok?)
All the best,
Sydy
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Fellow traveler
Hello Dusty, et al,
We're planning on what sounds like the same trip beginning just before Christmas, or thereabouts. We're in Carson City NV. I've got a 64 Mooney, and have flown down to the Caribbean about 15 - 18 times (lost count). The Mooney has slightly more than 5 hours of fuel, so I plan no more than about 600 NM legs, and less when I'm flying in areas with few alternatives, such as over the ocean, and South America.
I've not been past Nevis (near St. Kitts, but have little concern about getting down to Guayana. Frankly, I think I'd rather take the western course though Central America, Columbia, and either down the west coast or straight over the top. Not spotting a lot of airports along the central route, however, and the girlfriend says she wants to take the island and Brazilian coastal route, so there we go. I am somewhat curious about Manaus and central Brazil, but that may have to wait until we take the float plane down.
I have serious doubts that a 182 has an 800nm range, unless it is uniquely equipped. I'm pondering the 88 gallon (total) STC) for my just to avoid that sweat that starts breaking out around 4 hours 30 mins.
I haven't had much luck locating good charts, but have only begun the search.
When do you guys plan to go? Might form a group.
Cheers,
Don
We're planning on what sounds like the same trip beginning just before Christmas, or thereabouts. We're in Carson City NV. I've got a 64 Mooney, and have flown down to the Caribbean about 15 - 18 times (lost count). The Mooney has slightly more than 5 hours of fuel, so I plan no more than about 600 NM legs, and less when I'm flying in areas with few alternatives, such as over the ocean, and South America.
I've not been past Nevis (near St. Kitts, but have little concern about getting down to Guayana. Frankly, I think I'd rather take the western course though Central America, Columbia, and either down the west coast or straight over the top. Not spotting a lot of airports along the central route, however, and the girlfriend says she wants to take the island and Brazilian coastal route, so there we go. I am somewhat curious about Manaus and central Brazil, but that may have to wait until we take the float plane down.
I have serious doubts that a 182 has an 800nm range, unless it is uniquely equipped. I'm pondering the 88 gallon (total) STC) for my just to avoid that sweat that starts breaking out around 4 hours 30 mins.
I haven't had much luck locating good charts, but have only begun the search.
When do you guys plan to go? Might form a group.
Cheers,
Don
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Suriname and French Guyana
Hello Clarion,
What can you share about Suriname and French Guiana? I expect Georgetown-Belem to be out of my range, and probably the 182 as well. Macapa is within range of Georgtown, Guyan (just barely with a good wind and no detours), and Belem is just barley reachable from Paramaribo. Cayenne in French Guiana makes them both usable AOE for Brazil.
Thanks,
Don
What can you share about Suriname and French Guiana? I expect Georgetown-Belem to be out of my range, and probably the 182 as well. Macapa is within range of Georgtown, Guyan (just barely with a good wind and no detours), and Belem is just barley reachable from Paramaribo. Cayenne in French Guiana makes them both usable AOE for Brazil.
Thanks,
Don
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Hi Don,
Thanks for the 2 replies. It would be great to share any information, access to charts and experiences on clearances.
I suppose our initial attraction to the east coast route is driven by a number of considerations. These include the issue of a Cuba overflight, the complexities of taking in so many Central America states (Mexico, Honduras, Panama, etc) and the nature of the terrain around the entry airports in Colombia and Equador. The other is previous experiences in commercial flights in Peru and Chile. Much of the west coast that we have flown over is inhospitable and the airports are few and far between. For the northernmost 1000 miles or so of Chile, the desert and cliffs just tumble into the Pacific. It is beautiful but the cities are etched into the seashore. That said, the Pan-America highway is an almost continuous emergency landing strip.
Our instinct is to island hop down the east side. One reason is the current aeronautical data for the French islands and former French territories is readily available on line. I had been thinking of coasting in to South America just east of Venzuela airspace and landing in Rochambeau, the international airport of Guyane. If the final leg was Grenada to Rochambeau would be 742NM (Google calculation). This route passes virtually overhead both Georgetown and Paramaribo so there are diversion options. This link should take you to the full area and approach chart set (VFR/IFR) for Rochambeau https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..._AD-2.SOCA.pdf and this one is the low level (FL195) airways chart. https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...08_ENR-6.3.pdf It takes you all the way to Belem which is exactly 399NM further south-west.
Our aircraft choice is a lot to do with the local flying we'd like to do in Argentina and Chile. A lot of the strips the are "unimproved" and would not suit the SR20 I've flown for the last 5 years.
Hope we can stay in touch on this!
Dusty
Thanks for the 2 replies. It would be great to share any information, access to charts and experiences on clearances.
I suppose our initial attraction to the east coast route is driven by a number of considerations. These include the issue of a Cuba overflight, the complexities of taking in so many Central America states (Mexico, Honduras, Panama, etc) and the nature of the terrain around the entry airports in Colombia and Equador. The other is previous experiences in commercial flights in Peru and Chile. Much of the west coast that we have flown over is inhospitable and the airports are few and far between. For the northernmost 1000 miles or so of Chile, the desert and cliffs just tumble into the Pacific. It is beautiful but the cities are etched into the seashore. That said, the Pan-America highway is an almost continuous emergency landing strip.
Our instinct is to island hop down the east side. One reason is the current aeronautical data for the French islands and former French territories is readily available on line. I had been thinking of coasting in to South America just east of Venzuela airspace and landing in Rochambeau, the international airport of Guyane. If the final leg was Grenada to Rochambeau would be 742NM (Google calculation). This route passes virtually overhead both Georgetown and Paramaribo so there are diversion options. This link should take you to the full area and approach chart set (VFR/IFR) for Rochambeau https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..._AD-2.SOCA.pdf and this one is the low level (FL195) airways chart. https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...08_ENR-6.3.pdf It takes you all the way to Belem which is exactly 399NM further south-west.
Our aircraft choice is a lot to do with the local flying we'd like to do in Argentina and Chile. A lot of the strips the are "unimproved" and would not suit the SR20 I've flown for the last 5 years.
Hope we can stay in touch on this!
Dusty
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Hi Sydy,
Yes we'd be looking at a max no reserves of 800NM so I need to plan a lot less than that. I'd like to stay in touch as I plan this. Are there any overflight permission issues for Guyana and Surinam?
Thanks
Dusty
Yes we'd be looking at a max no reserves of 800NM so I need to plan a lot less than that. I'd like to stay in touch as I plan this. Are there any overflight permission issues for Guyana and Surinam?
Thanks
Dusty
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Clarion,
The permits I have a dispatcher that gets it for us. It is a contract with my company.
Guys, route georgetown, cayena, Macapá and Belem (whatever you decide) you have to Plan for detours. A lot of CBs N Brazil. I will start from soca.
As you desire short legs, I thought of a new route. Let's if you like it:
soca-sbbe (Belem)- 439NM (I will use direct distance, pls Plan for awys);
Sbbe-sbpj (Palmas) - 534NM;
Sbpj-sbgo (Goiânia) - 384NM (transit here is faster than Brasilia-sbbr)
Sbgo-sbrp (Ribeirão Preto) - 282NM (Nice fuel stop)
Sbrp-sbfl (Florianopolis) - 394NM
Sbfl-sumu (Montevideo-Carrasco) - 575NM
Option: sbfl-sbpa(Porto Alegre)-sumu - 196+380NM
Sumu-saez (Ezeiza) - 124NM
This is just an example of you can do. If you go via seashore the Planning will be quite different. Any Place in this list is a good overnight stop.
Buenas,
Sydy
The permits I have a dispatcher that gets it for us. It is a contract with my company.
Guys, route georgetown, cayena, Macapá and Belem (whatever you decide) you have to Plan for detours. A lot of CBs N Brazil. I will start from soca.
As you desire short legs, I thought of a new route. Let's if you like it:
soca-sbbe (Belem)- 439NM (I will use direct distance, pls Plan for awys);
Sbbe-sbpj (Palmas) - 534NM;
Sbpj-sbgo (Goiânia) - 384NM (transit here is faster than Brasilia-sbbr)
Sbgo-sbrp (Ribeirão Preto) - 282NM (Nice fuel stop)
Sbrp-sbfl (Florianopolis) - 394NM
Sbfl-sumu (Montevideo-Carrasco) - 575NM
Option: sbfl-sbpa(Porto Alegre)-sumu - 196+380NM
Sumu-saez (Ezeiza) - 124NM
This is just an example of you can do. If you go via seashore the Planning will be quite different. Any Place in this list is a good overnight stop.
Buenas,
Sydy
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Soave,
Good points, but Belem is a nicier AOE than Macapá (IMHO).
Marabá-Goiânia is 675NM, Streetching a bit tôo much their ranges. It is an option anyway.
Best regards,
Sydy
Good points, but Belem is a nicier AOE than Macapá (IMHO).
Marabá-Goiânia is 675NM, Streetching a bit tôo much their ranges. It is an option anyway.
Best regards,
Sydy
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New Route
Thanks for the suggested alternative route. All these distances are very good for us. You mention Aeroparque as your AOE for Argentina. Is it possible to land there in a single engine GA aircraft? If yes, is it necessary to use a a handling agent or FBO?
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Clarion,
Glad you liked the route!
I do think DPeterson is right. Aeroparque will not take SE acft in there.
I have no suggestion for you about AOE in Argentina in an 182. Sorry.
All the best,
Sydy
Glad you liked the route!
I do think DPeterson is right. Aeroparque will not take SE acft in there.
I have no suggestion for you about AOE in Argentina in an 182. Sorry.
All the best,
Sydy
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San Fernando
A friend of mine thinks San Fernando is good for single engine international arrivals. It appears on Google as an "International Airport", but clearly one would want to research the actual availability and rules for international arrivals.
You should plan to fly from SUMU (Montevideo) to SAEZ/Ezeiza over a visual corridor via SUCA/Colonia and then SADF (San Fernando).
If I were you I would not try to fly direct from SUMU to SAEZ because it is around 80 NM over the water.
You should also check if there is Customs Service at SADF at the time you are arriving.
SADD/DonTorcuato has been closed to all aircraft operations since 2006.
If I were you I would not try to fly direct from SUMU to SAEZ because it is around 80 NM over the water.
You should also check if there is Customs Service at SADF at the time you are arriving.
SADD/DonTorcuato has been closed to all aircraft operations since 2006.
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Caribbean route
Good morning Liam,
Lady friend doesn't want to go as early as November, so we'll be following you.
80nm over water!!?? Ha! The Caribbean route that I use and recommend has over 500NM over water.
You didn't say if you were already familiar with the Caribbean portion of the trip, but here's my recommendations for part of it.
Ft. Pierce - Grand Turk. You can also land at Providenciales, but GT puts you a little farther along for the next day. Check to make sure GT has avgas before going there. Provo always has gas.
GT - Nevis. Long stretch, but after a while you have plenty of detour options if problems arise. We used to have a house on Nevis, and in spite of the 4 Seasons hotel its still a very special place. I recommend staying at the Golden Rock hotel if you can get in.
If Nevis doesn't appeal, you can always go to St. Maarten or St. Kitts for good service and overnight.
Whatever you do, avoid Puerto Rico. Not a bad place to visit, but why would you? Plus, the worst customs agents I have ever encountered. It breaks up the trip from Grand Turk onward, but will add far more time on the ground than it saves in the air.
Cheers,
Don
Lady friend doesn't want to go as early as November, so we'll be following you.
80nm over water!!?? Ha! The Caribbean route that I use and recommend has over 500NM over water.
You didn't say if you were already familiar with the Caribbean portion of the trip, but here's my recommendations for part of it.
Ft. Pierce - Grand Turk. You can also land at Providenciales, but GT puts you a little farther along for the next day. Check to make sure GT has avgas before going there. Provo always has gas.
GT - Nevis. Long stretch, but after a while you have plenty of detour options if problems arise. We used to have a house on Nevis, and in spite of the 4 Seasons hotel its still a very special place. I recommend staying at the Golden Rock hotel if you can get in.
If Nevis doesn't appeal, you can always go to St. Maarten or St. Kitts for good service and overnight.
Whatever you do, avoid Puerto Rico. Not a bad place to visit, but why would you? Plus, the worst customs agents I have ever encountered. It breaks up the trip from Grand Turk onward, but will add far more time on the ground than it saves in the air.
Cheers,
Don
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Route and fuel
I've been working on planning our trip down - which largely parallels Dusty's but at a later date. It would appear that several places no longer have 100 AVGAS, and information is hard to come by. Thus, I've ordered the long range tank mod for my Mooney giving me upwards of 12 hours range if I care to do it - which I won't. It will, however, give us more options along the way.
I think I can get as far as Antigua with reliable AVGAS sources. After that, it's not so certain. I had assumed I would go into Trinidad, but what little news I've found makes it sound like they are downright hostile to people who land at their airport. Any comments on Trinidad?
We can make it to Georgetown Guyana from Antigua, but what is Georgetown like? 100 AVGAS? I've read some notes regarding very high prices and conflict between the FBO and the airport authorities.
Suriname requires a visa to enter, so we'll try to avoid that.
Cayenne is located in a good place - but again I can't find info regarding AVGAS.
Can someone suggest sources for up-to-date info on fuel for the southern Caribbean and down to Uruguay? I'm betting Brazil has it on hand, but it would be nice to have a contact to confirm.
Thanks to all
I think I can get as far as Antigua with reliable AVGAS sources. After that, it's not so certain. I had assumed I would go into Trinidad, but what little news I've found makes it sound like they are downright hostile to people who land at their airport. Any comments on Trinidad?
We can make it to Georgetown Guyana from Antigua, but what is Georgetown like? 100 AVGAS? I've read some notes regarding very high prices and conflict between the FBO and the airport authorities.
Suriname requires a visa to enter, so we'll try to avoid that.
Cayenne is located in a good place - but again I can't find info regarding AVGAS.
Can someone suggest sources for up-to-date info on fuel for the southern Caribbean and down to Uruguay? I'm betting Brazil has it on hand, but it would be nice to have a contact to confirm.
Thanks to all
Last edited by DPeterson3; 24th Aug 2011 at 15:10.