Service Air B747F
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
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Talk about being miserable....CYOW, and Cargodawg...you guys certainly fit the description....
Insulting others? didnt think so.
Did I use some sarcasim? Absolutely. When unfounded pot shots are being taken at AC why not. Should I sit idly by as someone decided to go on a negative rant on Air Canada? That may be acceptable to you , but not to me.
Take myself too seriously? Hardly. Take my job seriously, definitely.
Perhaps the "tone" of my messages were not to your liking. If you read back a few weeks you'll quickly see it did not start that way, but unfortunately digressed due to the nature of other members posts.
I'll try and sweeten things up and use a bit more sugar coating to help make the tone of the debate more pallatable for you.
Or, better yet, if you have something constructive to add to this argument to either side please feel free. I've yet to see anyone back up Rosbif's claims with some supporting fact. And I've yet to see an ounce of contribution from you, apart from pot shots at others with no contribution to the discussion at hand.
Ok, here's what I'll do. I'm not going to read here for one week and we'll see if in that time someone's been able to come up with a solid argument to support Rosbif's claims. If one presents itself I'll rescind my position.
Last edited by cargodawg; 24th May 2005 at 19:11.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: yvr
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Rosbif i guess you rhink Cargo Jet is a foriegn carrier then????? Air Canada currently wet-leases a coupke of CArgo Jet B727's to transport cargo domestically. Cargo Jet is Canadian and they are doing it cheaper then ACE Cargo was able to so now with the same type aircraft and more reliablity, due to Cargojet having spare aircraft sitting in YVR and Hamilton to replace a mechanical plane as they don't fly until the evening and AC's leave in the morning at least in YVR, Air Canada is able to create more profits then with ACE.
Also I remeber Air Canada doing some Pasanger flights for QANTAS not long after Sept 11 and the collapse of Ansett Austrailia. That was only until QANTAS was able to get more lift themselves. Also when CAthay had to ground their A330's Air Canada flew there A340's that would just be sitting in HKG anyway for Cathay Pacific to replace some of the flights CX's A330's were doing. It works both ways, World and Gemini are providing Lift until Air Canada gets the 2 B777F's and if the demand is there the order will be increased.
Plus the B777-200LRF Can carry the same amount of cargo the MD 11 can a liitle further and has only 2 engines, plus a lower fuel burn.
Also I remeber Air Canada doing some Pasanger flights for QANTAS not long after Sept 11 and the collapse of Ansett Austrailia. That was only until QANTAS was able to get more lift themselves. Also when CAthay had to ground their A330's Air Canada flew there A340's that would just be sitting in HKG anyway for Cathay Pacific to replace some of the flights CX's A330's were doing. It works both ways, World and Gemini are providing Lift until Air Canada gets the 2 B777F's and if the demand is there the order will be increased.
Plus the B777-200LRF Can carry the same amount of cargo the MD 11 can a liitle further and has only 2 engines, plus a lower fuel burn.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: YVR
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Rope,
Your the biggest liar around. I'd really like to know what money of yours you wasted. I highly doubt you are out anything - and even if you are - it's probably that $2.95 you used to buy cream for your coffee.
Would you please tell me what "more profitable and higher yield mediums" we invested in???
Besides - it doesn't matter anymore anyway.........as I said before - we are done.
Your the biggest liar around. I'd really like to know what money of yours you wasted. I highly doubt you are out anything - and even if you are - it's probably that $2.95 you used to buy cream for your coffee.
Would you please tell me what "more profitable and higher yield mediums" we invested in???
Besides - it doesn't matter anymore anyway.........as I said before - we are done.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: out of a suitcase
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I think we are losing sight of things a little here chaps.
I was just trying to make the point that if it takes less time to get approval to use a foreign carrier than the time it takes for a Canadian carrier to get approval to use a specific type of airplane, then we will always have a problem.
The work will always go to the foreign carrier.
Remember Vista (or whatever they were called). It took forever to get their plane certified. What about the time that it took ACE to get a DC 10 going? Serviceair seem to have had problems related to certification.
A solution would be to block foreign contracts for a specific type of aircraft while a Canadian company has a bona fide (not frivolous) application filed for addition of that aircraft type to its OC.
Meanwhile, the game goes on and Canadian flying jobs are lost.
I was just trying to make the point that if it takes less time to get approval to use a foreign carrier than the time it takes for a Canadian carrier to get approval to use a specific type of airplane, then we will always have a problem.
The work will always go to the foreign carrier.
Remember Vista (or whatever they were called). It took forever to get their plane certified. What about the time that it took ACE to get a DC 10 going? Serviceair seem to have had problems related to certification.
A solution would be to block foreign contracts for a specific type of aircraft while a Canadian company has a bona fide (not frivolous) application filed for addition of that aircraft type to its OC.
Meanwhile, the game goes on and Canadian flying jobs are lost.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: YVR
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As usual rope - you have no idea what your talking about.
I don't know why I should try to explain it to you AGAIN, as you would never listen to us before.......I don't know why you would start now.
Yes............certification is one of the major problems that we were facing. Anything can be certified eventually, but how much time is it going to take - that is a huge problem.
I don't know why I should try to explain it to you AGAIN, as you would never listen to us before.......I don't know why you would start now.
Yes............certification is one of the major problems that we were facing. Anything can be certified eventually, but how much time is it going to take - that is a huge problem.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: On the Beach
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Thanks Rope!
I hate to say I told you so to the cheerleading squad...but...I did!
JD is not Fred Smith - he's more like Ronald McDonald without the business sense - that would make him just a clown with a taste for burgers.
If he'd had cash, and had 'told the truth' from the start, anything would have been possible. He's just proven his track record again.
Tweaker - your bum must be sore, cause he's been riding you like a stallion for a while!!!
I hate to say I told you so to the cheerleading squad...but...I did!
JD is not Fred Smith - he's more like Ronald McDonald without the business sense - that would make him just a clown with a taste for burgers.
If he'd had cash, and had 'told the truth' from the start, anything would have been possible. He's just proven his track record again.
Tweaker - your bum must be sore, cause he's been riding you like a stallion for a while!!!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: D.C.
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Ha Ha HA
You guys are funny!! Now I know why I left Canada, Refuse to fly for AC, and enjoy flying the MD-11 for Gemini!!
As I sit here in my hotel room in T.O. reading this before my YYZ-FRA hop inthe -11 I get a good laugh. IF you are so jealous of the flying in the US, pay the money, hire a lawyer, and get a green card. Gemini loves Canadians. Some of them even live in Canada and commute. I guess they should be out of a job because of your near sightedness on a 4 year contract to Gemini, yes it was extended 2 more years....
Using an ACMI carrier is a great idea for the next few years. The 777-200ERF won't be off the line until 09, and at 210 million USD each, that makes expensive freight. And sure it hauls more farther for cheaper than the -11, but is AC filling the -11's?
As far as world, and Gemini doing AC ACMI, this is a good litmus test for AC to see if they can even do their own freight and make money. Why do you think they sold the DC-8 freighters? Too cost prohibitive to pay for MX, and crews,...etc.
What is the crew cost for an AC crew to fly freight? I can do a 30 hr duty day with a full HEAVY crew. It sucks, but sometimes it is required to catch up the schedule due to mechanical, or freight issues. What would the AC boys say about that? " Sure we'll fly our butts of in the next 30 hours to get back on sched..." I think not.
As I sit here in my hotel room in T.O. reading this before my YYZ-FRA hop inthe -11 I get a good laugh. IF you are so jealous of the flying in the US, pay the money, hire a lawyer, and get a green card. Gemini loves Canadians. Some of them even live in Canada and commute. I guess they should be out of a job because of your near sightedness on a 4 year contract to Gemini, yes it was extended 2 more years....
Using an ACMI carrier is a great idea for the next few years. The 777-200ERF won't be off the line until 09, and at 210 million USD each, that makes expensive freight. And sure it hauls more farther for cheaper than the -11, but is AC filling the -11's?
As far as world, and Gemini doing AC ACMI, this is a good litmus test for AC to see if they can even do their own freight and make money. Why do you think they sold the DC-8 freighters? Too cost prohibitive to pay for MX, and crews,...etc.
What is the crew cost for an AC crew to fly freight? I can do a 30 hr duty day with a full HEAVY crew. It sucks, but sometimes it is required to catch up the schedule due to mechanical, or freight issues. What would the AC boys say about that? " Sure we'll fly our butts of in the next 30 hours to get back on sched..." I think not.
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Patman.
You seem to be proud about flying heavy metal for less than what you should. Oh ya, business is business I guess. You're right, it is good for AC to find someone that can do it cheaper. Won't last forever though. And when AC pilots take over your contract, then what? Sure, Gemini doesn't rely on AC alone. I'm sure you guys have enough contracts to stay busy. But contracts expire. Do you hope and pray that more contracts come along? See, as an AC pilot, hope and pray is one thing I don't have to do anymore. Keep flying your 30 hours. And keep on hoping and praying. I am truly convinced that when pilots are payed less than bus drivers, you won't laugh too much sitting in your MOTEL room in T.O. And I will personally send you a thank you note on this forum.
You seem to be proud about flying heavy metal for less than what you should. Oh ya, business is business I guess. You're right, it is good for AC to find someone that can do it cheaper. Won't last forever though. And when AC pilots take over your contract, then what? Sure, Gemini doesn't rely on AC alone. I'm sure you guys have enough contracts to stay busy. But contracts expire. Do you hope and pray that more contracts come along? See, as an AC pilot, hope and pray is one thing I don't have to do anymore. Keep flying your 30 hours. And keep on hoping and praying. I am truly convinced that when pilots are payed less than bus drivers, you won't laugh too much sitting in your MOTEL room in T.O. And I will personally send you a thank you note on this forum.
Join Date: May 2004
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even funnier
Again, you are killing me. As a CRJ Capt I made more than my dad, a A340 CApt at AC! I haven't paid 50% income tax in years... And when was the last lay off at AC? Hmmm. yes, AC is so stable.
But enough about that. I have friends at AC and I hope there is never another layoff there. But my point is that a 4 year contract is not a bad thing for AC, and if there was an MD-11 in Canada I am sure it would have gotten the contract as Canadian Wages are much lower than US wages for similar flying. Look at FedEx and their poor affiliat in Canada. Night and Day. US Fedex guys make a ton, while the poor guys in FedEx paint in CA are severely underpaid.
By the time the 777F is on line AC will have a great handle on how to run the freight operation under their union constraints, and Gemini and World will be off flying freight somewhere else.
As for me I made the decision not to return to Canada to fly as there is no money in it comparatively. But as a Typed MD Capt at my age, I will not go without a good paying job even if Gemini were to fold, however unlikely as the Carlyle group told us to buy the 777f's if we wanted them... (nice to have ownership like that...look them up)
$120.00 and hour US (65 hrs/month) and 10 % income tax is working fine for all the Gemini Capt's.......
Cheers
Oh yeah, bruce It\'s not quite a motel,...But maybe I\'ll meet you in the FRA-Maintz hilton and we can have a beer!
Cheers
But enough about that. I have friends at AC and I hope there is never another layoff there. But my point is that a 4 year contract is not a bad thing for AC, and if there was an MD-11 in Canada I am sure it would have gotten the contract as Canadian Wages are much lower than US wages for similar flying. Look at FedEx and their poor affiliat in Canada. Night and Day. US Fedex guys make a ton, while the poor guys in FedEx paint in CA are severely underpaid.
By the time the 777F is on line AC will have a great handle on how to run the freight operation under their union constraints, and Gemini and World will be off flying freight somewhere else.
As for me I made the decision not to return to Canada to fly as there is no money in it comparatively. But as a Typed MD Capt at my age, I will not go without a good paying job even if Gemini were to fold, however unlikely as the Carlyle group told us to buy the 777f's if we wanted them... (nice to have ownership like that...look them up)
$120.00 and hour US (65 hrs/month) and 10 % income tax is working fine for all the Gemini Capt's.......
Cheers
Oh yeah, bruce It\'s not quite a motel,...But maybe I\'ll meet you in the FRA-Maintz hilton and we can have a beer!
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2004
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PATMAN, you are so right. Even as a FO on the 747 overseas I make more than a Air Canada A340 Capt. However, I do have to work for it and fly a full month, not sit at home and collect a salary for my 30hrs..
Our jobs pay very close, but I have not tax
all offshore
Our jobs pay very close, but I have not tax
all offshore
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Pat.
You made more than your A340 dad when you were on the RJ?
The average RJ fo salary in the US is in the mid $30k. This suggets to me that captains get about twice that. An A340 capt at AC makes $200k plus a year. Either you're smoking some cheap American weed or you must have been a very special RJ captain to make more than $200k a year on the RJ. Even after all the tax your dad paid, I bet he was still wealthy compaired to you and didn't have to leave home either. Look I've said many times on this forum that leaving Canada is a personal choice, not a reflection on life here. If you don't like to pay taxes (who dose) to the point that it makes you whant to leave, that's fine. We owe you guys alot for making room for us in the job market.
See ya in FRA and you buy the beer since you make more money.
Cheers.
You made more than your A340 dad when you were on the RJ?
The average RJ fo salary in the US is in the mid $30k. This suggets to me that captains get about twice that. An A340 capt at AC makes $200k plus a year. Either you're smoking some cheap American weed or you must have been a very special RJ captain to make more than $200k a year on the RJ. Even after all the tax your dad paid, I bet he was still wealthy compaired to you and didn't have to leave home either. Look I've said many times on this forum that leaving Canada is a personal choice, not a reflection on life here. If you don't like to pay taxes (who dose) to the point that it makes you whant to leave, that's fine. We owe you guys alot for making room for us in the job market.
See ya in FRA and you buy the beer since you make more money.
Cheers.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Sorry BLee, there are many RJ Capts overseas taking home over a $100K USD overseas which far exceeds the after tax pitance an AC Capt takes home.
Folks in Canada have no idea home much they are worth. Currently being proven by the amount of guys who have accepted employment at Gulf and China Air with their sub par salaries, mine here at AAI isn't great, but its still about $120,000 (CDN $ ) a year take home tax free. Beats AC.
Folks in Canada have no idea home much they are worth. Currently being proven by the amount of guys who have accepted employment at Gulf and China Air with their sub par salaries, mine here at AAI isn't great, but its still about $120,000 (CDN $ ) a year take home tax free. Beats AC.
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If you find that there is such a huge difference in salaries due to taxes that it makes you whant to leave your country, that's your decision. We have pilots at AC that commute from other countries just to avoid the taxes here. My point is that we live comfortably here just the same. Pilots aren't the only ones leaving. Many doctors are too. And then you have those who return because other factors such as crime and lifestyle just didn't cut it somewhere else. Pitty that the allmighty dollar has forced you to make a decision and to each his own. Again I have to state that if you decide to leave that's great. But don't put down those who have decided to stay and are doing quite well. Comparing one with the other is pretty childish and serves absolutely no purpose other than to instigate confrontation. I guess arrogance is one of those fine qualities one acquires by going south.
Join Date: May 2005
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AAIGuy....
Isn't 120K CDN a bit optimistic? Your not on the -400 are you?
I thought "Classic" pay was more in the range of $132,000 CDN for a Captain (Available every day and no vacation) and $100,000 CDN for a F/O (Available every day and no vacation)
Should probably take away at least 10 - 20% of that as we all need a vacation now and then.
Correct me if I'm wrong. And don't forget about all the problems and lack of upgrades and most importantly... It's a contract with 2 weeks notice!
Isn't 120K CDN a bit optimistic? Your not on the -400 are you?
I thought "Classic" pay was more in the range of $132,000 CDN for a Captain (Available every day and no vacation) and $100,000 CDN for a F/O (Available every day and no vacation)
Should probably take away at least 10 - 20% of that as we all need a vacation now and then.
Correct me if I'm wrong. And don't forget about all the problems and lack of upgrades and most importantly... It's a contract with 2 weeks notice!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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$120,000 cdn is $97,000 K USD
or $8000 a month. This month I took home $8200. For August pay I will have some more OT and be close to $9000.
But I will agree in that it is between 100-120,000 depending on personal circumstance. Either is still more takehome than an AC widebody Capt.
As for upgrades I think AAI is actually pretty fair. There is another upgrade course on right now.
or $8000 a month. This month I took home $8200. For August pay I will have some more OT and be close to $9000.
But I will agree in that it is between 100-120,000 depending on personal circumstance. Either is still more takehome than an AC widebody Capt.
As for upgrades I think AAI is actually pretty fair. There is another upgrade course on right now.