Is post-secondary education really worth it?
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Is post-secondary education really worth it?
Hey!
I'm always apprehensive about using forums. To be frank, you get a lot of dicks. But I'd like to put a question out in the open and try to get as much input as possible before making a potentially life-changing decision.
I'm 21 years old and I spent almost 4 years in the army. In September I began a 2-year diploma program (Aviation - General Arts & Science) at one of Ontario's fine community colleges. It works in tandem with the local flight training centre. We are technically enrolled in 7 courses per semester. 4 college courses, 2 flight related courses at the flight centre, and the last one being actual in-flight training. In my opinion, the flight training could be a program on its own. It is all very time consuming. And as many of you know, flight training is expensive. I'd like more time to work while I continue this training. So naturally, I am considering dropping college and completing my CPL training as a standalone program.
I'm not looking to be a big airline pilot. I just want to move out to BC and fly in the mountains for work. I'm also interested in overseas bush flying. I'm not very concerned about salaries.
My question is this: Through your experiences or interactions, what does the job market currently look like for CPL pilots (multi-engine IFR, night rating) without a post-secondary education in Canada and abroad? What are the odds of getting a job fresh out of flight training with 200 hours? What about at 1000 hours? Would it be more practical to find a full-time airport ramp job to put on my resume than to continue community college?
Thanks in advance.
Alex
I'm always apprehensive about using forums. To be frank, you get a lot of dicks. But I'd like to put a question out in the open and try to get as much input as possible before making a potentially life-changing decision.
I'm 21 years old and I spent almost 4 years in the army. In September I began a 2-year diploma program (Aviation - General Arts & Science) at one of Ontario's fine community colleges. It works in tandem with the local flight training centre. We are technically enrolled in 7 courses per semester. 4 college courses, 2 flight related courses at the flight centre, and the last one being actual in-flight training. In my opinion, the flight training could be a program on its own. It is all very time consuming. And as many of you know, flight training is expensive. I'd like more time to work while I continue this training. So naturally, I am considering dropping college and completing my CPL training as a standalone program.
I'm not looking to be a big airline pilot. I just want to move out to BC and fly in the mountains for work. I'm also interested in overseas bush flying. I'm not very concerned about salaries.
My question is this: Through your experiences or interactions, what does the job market currently look like for CPL pilots (multi-engine IFR, night rating) without a post-secondary education in Canada and abroad? What are the odds of getting a job fresh out of flight training with 200 hours? What about at 1000 hours? Would it be more practical to find a full-time airport ramp job to put on my resume than to continue community college?
Thanks in advance.
Alex
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Knowledge is good. I suggest you do your college too. A lot of jobs now being advertised, they ask some other qualification. Competition in the world is stiff. so anything extra you have can add as an additional advantage. For example, now airlines are advertising flying jobs asking for tonnes of experience flying, and on top of that they are asking for a degree or a diploma....mostly they do not specify in which field...so meaning a degree in botany, bee keeping, paper setting and printing....whatever you call it...but an additional degree would be an advantage, even in a field which is irrelevant to flying. AGAIN: Having another qualification also gives you a fall back position. Aviation is very dynamic and sometimes very volatile. There is no guarantee that you are gonna make it to be that 'big' 5 star pilot with nice uniforms, bags, huts etc... earning tones of money.... your second qualification could be far better and more viable and your life saver.....
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Welcome to PPRuNe avftw,
The short answer to your question is few operators in Canada require a diploma or degree. Most don't care about how you worked towards the licenses and ratings, just that you have them and the minimum experience levels required to apply for the job.
The great thing about aviation in Canada is that there are thousands of paths to each position, and the path I used to get to my job may not be the path you want to take. You ask what the odds are of getting a job with 200 hours? Right now pretty good. The airlines are clearing the slate with huge hiring, creating a vacuum behind them for pilots straight out of flight school. For now, your best course of action is to get your licenses and ratings as quickly as possible and get a flying job. Gone are the days of sending 50 resumes out and getting 1 response for a ramp job in Yellowknife.
With that said, you are only ever a second away from another 9/11 type scenario which dries up all the jobs and you're left loading bags onto airplanes instead of flying them. This is why getting that education to a diploma or degree level is necessary, as all the guys and gals you'll be in competition with will likely have one.
Also, most pilots don't spend their entire career on the flight deck. Most step out of the cockpit and work in training or management at some point; either by choice or otherwise. Having prior education can definitely make these excursions into other areas more rewarding, both professionally and personally.
Finally, you have to consider what will happen if you show up to your aviation medical one day and the doctor pulls the plug on your career for you. In one day your entire life can be turned upside down, and a pilot without prior education can often be left flying in the wind, with not a lot of transferable skills. Managing people, time, and tasks are very transferable, but flying an RNP or ILS to minimums during a snowstorm with gale force winds don't have much in common with anything if you're now trying to sell insurance.
You might consider the cost of staying in the program is too expensive now, but honestly, the cost is not as great as the potential losses you might see without the education.
Therefore, I'd suggest you stay the course and finish your training. Your future quality of life might just thank you for it.
The short answer to your question is few operators in Canada require a diploma or degree. Most don't care about how you worked towards the licenses and ratings, just that you have them and the minimum experience levels required to apply for the job.
The great thing about aviation in Canada is that there are thousands of paths to each position, and the path I used to get to my job may not be the path you want to take. You ask what the odds are of getting a job with 200 hours? Right now pretty good. The airlines are clearing the slate with huge hiring, creating a vacuum behind them for pilots straight out of flight school. For now, your best course of action is to get your licenses and ratings as quickly as possible and get a flying job. Gone are the days of sending 50 resumes out and getting 1 response for a ramp job in Yellowknife.
With that said, you are only ever a second away from another 9/11 type scenario which dries up all the jobs and you're left loading bags onto airplanes instead of flying them. This is why getting that education to a diploma or degree level is necessary, as all the guys and gals you'll be in competition with will likely have one.
Also, most pilots don't spend their entire career on the flight deck. Most step out of the cockpit and work in training or management at some point; either by choice or otherwise. Having prior education can definitely make these excursions into other areas more rewarding, both professionally and personally.
Finally, you have to consider what will happen if you show up to your aviation medical one day and the doctor pulls the plug on your career for you. In one day your entire life can be turned upside down, and a pilot without prior education can often be left flying in the wind, with not a lot of transferable skills. Managing people, time, and tasks are very transferable, but flying an RNP or ILS to minimums during a snowstorm with gale force winds don't have much in common with anything if you're now trying to sell insurance.
You might consider the cost of staying in the program is too expensive now, but honestly, the cost is not as great as the potential losses you might see without the education.
Therefore, I'd suggest you stay the course and finish your training. Your future quality of life might just thank you for it.
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Besides, a graduation or post graduation gives you more maturity and better outlook towards life. I feel a four year college degree is a must. And those 4 years I bet will be your best part of life, which money won’t able to buy no matter how much you make later.
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you guys don't read or listen, he doesn't want airlines, nor does post secondary education matter. In canada or overseas.
Good luck bro, you have a good attitude.
Good luck bro, you have a good attitude.
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you guys don't read or listen, he doesn't want airlines, nor does post secondary education matter.
When I left the bush, over half the pilot management team of the company consisted of pilots with post-secondary education. None of them wants to leave the bush, but all felt getting a post-secondary education was vital to their personal success. They made decisions for the company based on fact, not emotion or fiction, which is precisely what the previous group of managers had done.
I left to go to a company where none of the pilots had any education but had "years of experience in their chosen career." One of those companies is flourishing and the other is circling the drain. I'm not suggesting a distinct correlation between education and business success, but when times got tough the educated managers opened their doors and talked through issues while the non-educated managers closed their doors and one could hear screaming matches from flight planning.
Neither of the companies was an airline, both were flying "bush airplanes," and both had line pilots who were successful in part because they had education outside of basic flight training.
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Here’s the advice I wish I had received: get a four year liberal arts degree.
A liberal arts degree exposes a person to a broad range of subjects. Some will bore you to tears. Some will really grab your attention. Once you’re out working, you’ll be pleasantly surprised to find all the subjects come up from time to time, even the boring ones. You’ll have knowledge that will give you context to understand history, politics, science, art, etc. The world will be more interesting to you.
After working for a while you may find that a particular field or subject is especially interesting. That’s when you can go back for a masters in that subject and gain really in-depth knowledge. You’ll be surprised how easy a masters degree is when you’re studying something that really interests you.
One caution: many will encourage you to get a degree in a field where hiring is strong. Yes, you may be able to get a high-paying job as soon as you graduate, but life is more than having a high-paying job: it should be about doing things that interest and energize you. If you choose a major simply because that’s where the jobs are, you could easily find yourself working in a field that you strongly dislike.
It’s better to get the liberal arts degree and spend a few years exploring different career paths. Then, when you finally decide on a career you’ll be making that choice based on firsthand knowledge and experience, not advice from family or friends who don’t know you as well as you know yourself.
Best of luck to you!
A liberal arts degree exposes a person to a broad range of subjects. Some will bore you to tears. Some will really grab your attention. Once you’re out working, you’ll be pleasantly surprised to find all the subjects come up from time to time, even the boring ones. You’ll have knowledge that will give you context to understand history, politics, science, art, etc. The world will be more interesting to you.
After working for a while you may find that a particular field or subject is especially interesting. That’s when you can go back for a masters in that subject and gain really in-depth knowledge. You’ll be surprised how easy a masters degree is when you’re studying something that really interests you.
One caution: many will encourage you to get a degree in a field where hiring is strong. Yes, you may be able to get a high-paying job as soon as you graduate, but life is more than having a high-paying job: it should be about doing things that interest and energize you. If you choose a major simply because that’s where the jobs are, you could easily find yourself working in a field that you strongly dislike.
It’s better to get the liberal arts degree and spend a few years exploring different career paths. Then, when you finally decide on a career you’ll be making that choice based on firsthand knowledge and experience, not advice from family or friends who don’t know you as well as you know yourself.
Best of luck to you!
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You should finish your degree/college.
I didn't finish post secondary, wish I did...
Still, I was a bit lucky, and was hired at a big airline not many without a degree/diploma do get hired at...
While you say you don't want that now - life changes - you want more free time, more money, you have a family, you have a few buddies crash and die in the mountains, things change... take it from a guy that survived a decade of BC 703 and couldn't get out fast enough at the end...
The degree/diploma gives you more options, and is generally good for you.
The alternative is to drop out, hammer your cpl out in a hurry and be flying by spring. Then start correspondence or night school... that's what I did, but I didn't finish... Life gets busy.
I didn't finish post secondary, wish I did...
Still, I was a bit lucky, and was hired at a big airline not many without a degree/diploma do get hired at...
While you say you don't want that now - life changes - you want more free time, more money, you have a family, you have a few buddies crash and die in the mountains, things change... take it from a guy that survived a decade of BC 703 and couldn't get out fast enough at the end...
The degree/diploma gives you more options, and is generally good for you.
The alternative is to drop out, hammer your cpl out in a hurry and be flying by spring. Then start correspondence or night school... that's what I did, but I didn't finish... Life gets busy.
Last edited by altiplano; 6th Dec 2017 at 15:07.
