Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
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The way we stop this nonsense is to vote NO.
I have voted no to every concession since being hired at Air Canada in 2000. The last vote only passed with 55% so I hope we are making some progress. I try to educate all those who will listen. But it is strange that they always say " I voted NO too". Who voted YES then?
The JAZZ 757 deal may be out of our hands for now due to the wording of the CPA. I think eventually JAZZ is going to piss off Air Canada to the point where they will cancel the whole deal.
I don't blame you personally, it is the ACPA mentality to always vote for what the MEC recommends. It is time for this to stop. Pilots are not stupid people. They don't need to be told how to vote.
Now back to the topic.....
As usual, Air Canada pilots are being told how bad age 65 is for them without knowing all the facts. The fact is most Air Canada pilots today will not reach 35 years of service at age 60, and most will benefit from going past age 60. But only if they want to.
I have voted no to every concession since being hired at Air Canada in 2000. The last vote only passed with 55% so I hope we are making some progress. I try to educate all those who will listen. But it is strange that they always say " I voted NO too". Who voted YES then?
The JAZZ 757 deal may be out of our hands for now due to the wording of the CPA. I think eventually JAZZ is going to piss off Air Canada to the point where they will cancel the whole deal.
I don't blame you personally, it is the ACPA mentality to always vote for what the MEC recommends. It is time for this to stop. Pilots are not stupid people. They don't need to be told how to vote.
Now back to the topic.....
As usual, Air Canada pilots are being told how bad age 65 is for them without knowing all the facts. The fact is most Air Canada pilots today will not reach 35 years of service at age 60, and most will benefit from going past age 60. But only if they want to.
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I must have missed the clause, in the new-hire contract in 2000
that stated; "even though you...chose...to join the Big Airline at age 40, we guarantee you 35 years of service."
Conversely, I do remember it being in "Black and White" in the Collective Agreement; "Mandatory Retirement at age 60," in 2000.
I am comfortable that ACPA is using my dues, to fight - the good fight.
Cheers
that stated; "even though you...chose...to join the Big Airline at age 40, we guarantee you 35 years of service."
Conversely, I do remember it being in "Black and White" in the Collective Agreement; "Mandatory Retirement at age 60," in 2000.
I am comfortable that ACPA is using my dues, to fight - the good fight.
Cheers
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Hi Johnny 767,
Have you read the CA recently...lots of things have changed...Our pension is in deficit and is no longer indexed..When you retired these things might become a little more important.
Using your logic..... "I suspect the large majority of petitioners are only looking for a "Lotto Win." And have no real desire to come back."
"Although personally opposed to the whole idea, I am reminded of the Human Rights complaint that put an end to age restriction on new-hires.
Anyone that got hired past the age of 26 (or so) can be thankful to those complainants. I wonder how many of those types, are bitching about this?'
...........Since very few will come back....what is the problem then ?? And the ones that do stay will mostly likely be junior. And as to your last point...I was hired over the age of 27...and every day i am thankful for the opportunity that these gentlemen gave me.....PS I believe that everyone on our course was over the age of 27...and all are thankful. Hope you have your 35 years Johnny...Cheers.
"
Have you read the CA recently...lots of things have changed...Our pension is in deficit and is no longer indexed..When you retired these things might become a little more important.
Using your logic..... "I suspect the large majority of petitioners are only looking for a "Lotto Win." And have no real desire to come back."
"Although personally opposed to the whole idea, I am reminded of the Human Rights complaint that put an end to age restriction on new-hires.
Anyone that got hired past the age of 26 (or so) can be thankful to those complainants. I wonder how many of those types, are bitching about this?'
...........Since very few will come back....what is the problem then ?? And the ones that do stay will mostly likely be junior. And as to your last point...I was hired over the age of 27...and every day i am thankful for the opportunity that these gentlemen gave me.....PS I believe that everyone on our course was over the age of 27...and all are thankful. Hope you have your 35 years Johnny...Cheers.
"
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Been retired 12 years, when was our pension indexed? {There have been adjustments, but indexed, no} I must have missed somthing in the fine print! Most of my group were a bit older when hired {no hiring for 12 years up till then if memory serves me right} most of us bought time back, myself included, dont know if you can still do this, but if you can its well worth the few bucks.
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"Conversely, I do remember it being in "Black and White" in the Collective Agreement; "Mandatory Retirement at age 60," in 2000."
and,
"I am comfortable that ACPA is using my dues, to fight - the good fight."
WELL, everybody also remembers the hiring age getting changed by the courts, along with the vision rules, the height rules, the sex stuff and all that. Nothing is static. Now the retirement age has also been ruled discriminatory and we await the Tribunal Order on that one.
and,
"I am comfortable that ACPA is using my dues, to fight - the good fight."
WELL, everybody also remembers the hiring age getting changed by the courts, along with the vision rules, the height rules, the sex stuff and all that. Nothing is static. Now the retirement age has also been ruled discriminatory and we await the Tribunal Order on that one.
Last edited by cloudcity; 19th Nov 2010 at 21:06.
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retirement at 60
Yes I retired with 25,000hrs plus at 60. I sincerely miss those days but it was time to hang it up. Many young kids now who are trying to get a flying job don't have the opportunities we had. Eight companies in a career was enough. Lets give them a break and wish them success. To give back to aviation what we received would be to let the young eagles soar. To continue flying commercially at the end of ones career, is leaving a young pilot on the bread line.......
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Unfortunately the helmet fire appears to have bit into the oxygen lines. What does ACPA do now??
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If you wanted to fly past 60, why not just come to EK? You would never have to worry about your pension because you wouldnt make it past 65 with our rostering!
Maybe they could arrange an AC/EK swap. Old guys for new routes, EK takes AC's old guys and gets a few more routes out west.
OK, 2 problems solved! I should be a manager of something.
Maybe they could arrange an AC/EK swap. Old guys for new routes, EK takes AC's old guys and gets a few more routes out west.
OK, 2 problems solved! I should be a manager of something.
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Lowstandard , no doubt you are headed for the corner office with your management skills! I would sugest you send your CV to some of our outfits who pay Captains less tha a bus driver, wth you background in the Sandbox you will fit right in. If things pick up around the world it will be interesting to watch the mass bail outs take place, in the meantime just keep your sense of humor and post more funnies!
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The ACPA forum is closed, maybe forever.
I think the lawyers for ACPA said ....SHUT R DOWN!!!!
Age 60 information has been squashed and the general population has been kept in the dark. IMHO
C'mon chairman Sinclair......make my day
I think the lawyers for ACPA said ....SHUT R DOWN!!!!
Age 60 information has been squashed and the general population has been kept in the dark. IMHO
C'mon chairman Sinclair......make my day
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Taildragger2004: "To give back to aviation what we received would be to let the young eagles soar. To continue flying commercially at the end of ones career, is leaving a young pilot on the bread line......."
Thank you for your honesty.
Too many greedy pilots (strange as they grew older they tend to forget and shift their focus on the me me and myself) do not remember that.
I am not on the bread line but like you i will retire proudly and pass on the chance to a younger pilots to have a better job.
Enjoy your retirement.
Thank you for your honesty.
Too many greedy pilots (strange as they grew older they tend to forget and shift their focus on the me me and myself) do not remember that.
I am not on the bread line but like you i will retire proudly and pass on the chance to a younger pilots to have a better job.
Enjoy your retirement.
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Flex, so true, I know of some retirees teaching Air Cadets, working on restorations at the NAM ,giving talks to high school kids, for myself its a bit different, we sold our flight schools and charter opps, just have one twin left in private certification, always pop a kid in the right seat{and pay them} to give them a leg up , all get jobs at the end of it, and I dont charge extra for learning my bad habbits!
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The Latest:
Earlier this week, ACPA President Captain Paul Strachan, in consultation with MEC Chair Captain Bruce White, suspended operation of the ACPA Forum. Although regrettable, this action was deemed necessary due to recent developments associated with the Vilven/Kelly retirement complaint before the CHRT.
The MEC Chair will have a more detailed update in his newsletter tomorrow.
Earlier this week, ACPA President Captain Paul Strachan, in consultation with MEC Chair Captain Bruce White, suspended operation of the ACPA Forum. Although regrettable, this action was deemed necessary due to recent developments associated with the Vilven/Kelly retirement complaint before the CHRT.
The MEC Chair will have a more detailed update in his newsletter tomorrow.
Further to Taildragger 2004:
Thank you for your succinct comments on age 60. Back in the late 60's early to mid 70's I can remember airline pilots moon lighting in the corporate world which held a lot of the commercial entry pilots back. During the first oil embargo in the 70's a lot of these commercial entry level pilots were hurt badly and lost jobs because of these "self satisfied" individuals. Luckily for me I held on by my finger nails. I can still remember chasing pay cheques to cover rent cheques and that was thirty five years ago. After living that experience I vowed to myself when I got an airline job I would not moon light and I never did.
Yes I was hired late did not get my 35 years in but I was comfortable with that along with the retirement age of 60 which I was aware when I signed on.
For those starting out never allow your persona be defined by what you wear when you go to work, budget yourself on what you made on your last bid position ie you are now a B-767 F/O base your budget when you were a A-320 F/O, same spouse, same house makes life very easy and for those who are married if you leave the "paddock" it is half your pension along with a lot of other things.
For those in your mid 50's if you do not have a hobby, interest do not wait for retirement to find one as it will be too late. My late father had a good saying in retirement you have to be just as busy in retirement as you were in your working life. Treat every flight as your last as you never know if it was due medicals competency etc.....
Above all remember life is a transitory thing and if you think you are hard done by go to a paediatric oncology ward (three words that should never be in the same sentence) and have your attitude adjusted.
I set the parking brake a while back and life is grand as there is a life outside of aviation.
I would be interested in hearing what really motivates Ray 767 especially since a complaint has been filed at the Manitoba Law Society against him. Or maybe that will not happen as it is in the "courts".
In closing for the junior pilots enjoy your career as it will pass by very quickly
Thank you for your succinct comments on age 60. Back in the late 60's early to mid 70's I can remember airline pilots moon lighting in the corporate world which held a lot of the commercial entry pilots back. During the first oil embargo in the 70's a lot of these commercial entry level pilots were hurt badly and lost jobs because of these "self satisfied" individuals. Luckily for me I held on by my finger nails. I can still remember chasing pay cheques to cover rent cheques and that was thirty five years ago. After living that experience I vowed to myself when I got an airline job I would not moon light and I never did.
Yes I was hired late did not get my 35 years in but I was comfortable with that along with the retirement age of 60 which I was aware when I signed on.
For those starting out never allow your persona be defined by what you wear when you go to work, budget yourself on what you made on your last bid position ie you are now a B-767 F/O base your budget when you were a A-320 F/O, same spouse, same house makes life very easy and for those who are married if you leave the "paddock" it is half your pension along with a lot of other things.
For those in your mid 50's if you do not have a hobby, interest do not wait for retirement to find one as it will be too late. My late father had a good saying in retirement you have to be just as busy in retirement as you were in your working life. Treat every flight as your last as you never know if it was due medicals competency etc.....
Above all remember life is a transitory thing and if you think you are hard done by go to a paediatric oncology ward (three words that should never be in the same sentence) and have your attitude adjusted.
I set the parking brake a while back and life is grand as there is a life outside of aviation.
I would be interested in hearing what really motivates Ray 767 especially since a complaint has been filed at the Manitoba Law Society against him. Or maybe that will not happen as it is in the "courts".
In closing for the junior pilots enjoy your career as it will pass by very quickly
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One man's opinion/advice and to someone who believes in the rights and freedoms of the individual ... is worth what I paid for it .... Fly Past Sixty is now a reality in Canada.
Or maybe it will not happen as they were required to shut down their Forum ... ACPA is severely broken ... the members will pay the price for incompetence/stupidity.
I would be interested in hearing what really motivates Ray 767 especially since a complaint has been filed at the Manitoba Law Society against him. Or maybe that will not happen as it is in the "courts".
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"ACPA is severely broken ... the members will pay the price for incompetence/stupidity."
It has been broken for quite a few years
and
As someone so aptly stated over on the AVCanada forum:
"Often pilots want to have the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. Sometimes, there are consequences"
And I bet this ones going to cost ACPA a small fortune..
It has been broken for quite a few years
and
As someone so aptly stated over on the AVCanada forum:
"Often pilots want to have the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. Sometimes, there are consequences"
And I bet this ones going to cost ACPA a small fortune..
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This should be interesting. Given that the MEC and ACPA forum watchdogs have for several years tacitly condoned the harrassment and slander of those members in favour of eliminating mandatory retirement while deleting any posts contrary to their position, will they now attempt to take the high road and say such behavior is wrong?
You don't have to be very smart to see which way this was going to go from the very start. Had the MEC only looked around them at what's going on in the rest of the world vis-a-vis age 60, and especially at the mandatory retirement issue in this country with regard to human rights, they couldn't help but see the futility of their chosen path. And it is the path they chose without regard to the potential consequences or damage to the membership. Could their own desire for the most rapid advancement have blinded them.....?
In any event the inevitable outcome is upon us, and in addition to the monetary cost we will all have to bear for this debacle, our pilot group is so bitter and fractured it will take years to recover. If we even can recover. I don't think we can with an insular, detached and isolated organization like ACPA as our representation.
I think it's safe to say the only big winner here is the company, because without lifting a finger they just sit back and watch us tear our own house down. To them we must seem pathetically inept. And we are.
You don't have to be very smart to see which way this was going to go from the very start. Had the MEC only looked around them at what's going on in the rest of the world vis-a-vis age 60, and especially at the mandatory retirement issue in this country with regard to human rights, they couldn't help but see the futility of their chosen path. And it is the path they chose without regard to the potential consequences or damage to the membership. Could their own desire for the most rapid advancement have blinded them.....?
In any event the inevitable outcome is upon us, and in addition to the monetary cost we will all have to bear for this debacle, our pilot group is so bitter and fractured it will take years to recover. If we even can recover. I don't think we can with an insular, detached and isolated organization like ACPA as our representation.
I think it's safe to say the only big winner here is the company, because without lifting a finger they just sit back and watch us tear our own house down. To them we must seem pathetically inept. And we are.
Last edited by engfireleft; 23rd Jul 2010 at 15:23.
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Fortunately my airline company offers the option of Captain until 65, and FO from then on. That said, I hope I will not be pushed financially to work past 60. My father retired as a professional pilot (military/corporate) at 65, and so I have no reason to suspect I won't wish/have to do the same, for whatever reason I choose: bad financial planning, divorce, greed, boredom...the list goes on.
Raymond, I thank you and the others fighting the various legal skirmishes for having the courage to do so, in the face of vilification by various parties. I have read your posts on this matter, and they are always on point, and devoid of personal attack.
I believe the Christians have a prayer about God granting them the 1) courage to change things they can, 2) the grace to accept things they can't, and the 3) wisdom to know the difference between the two.
John Swallow
Raymond, I thank you and the others fighting the various legal skirmishes for having the courage to do so, in the face of vilification by various parties. I have read your posts on this matter, and they are always on point, and devoid of personal attack.
I believe the Christians have a prayer about God granting them the 1) courage to change things they can, 2) the grace to accept things they can't, and the 3) wisdom to know the difference between the two.
John Swallow
Last edited by jonny dangerous; 23rd Jul 2010 at 16:33. Reason: addition of "...between the two."
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I think it's safe to say the only big winner here is the company, because without lifting a finger they just sit back and watch us tear our own house down. To them we must seem pathetically inept. And we are.