Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting comparison between France and Canada these days, the French are fighting mad over their governments plan to raise the retirement age back up to 62 from 60, in Canada some wish to go the other way, I gues being retired in France is a better quality of life than being retired in Winnipeg {sorry all you "Peggers" just cant help myself when it comes to takeing a dig at your home town , just kidding!}
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's because the French have a hardcore socialist sense of entitlement and expect the government to support them no matter what. Any good right winger should realize that the government can't afford it and people have to start paying their own way. Especially now that the boomers are leaving the work force and there are fewer and fewer people to generate tax revenue.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engine fire, the real reason is its much nicer eating and drinking in the "Cafe Rouge" on The Grande Boulavard in retirment than the White Spot in downtown Winter Peg, thats my take on it any way! Politics has nothing to do with it! {a joke, OK?}
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire Left, the Grimli chamber of commerce are gunning for you! Sugest you donate five gallons of Deet to them ASAP, that should get them of your back! {Only Canadians take joy in this sort of thing, the rest of the world thinks we are nuts!}For those not Canadian, just remember, God was only joking when he created Canada!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Today on the ACPA forum, a junior member blasted away with a trashy personal attack against the FlyPast60 movement and (as yet) the moderators are letting a personal attack against a respected retired AC pilot stand unaltered.
Typical ACPA moderator double standard.
. If a retired pilot had made the same post it would have been edited or the thread closed in a New York Minute.
Typical ACPA moderator double standard.
. If a retired pilot had made the same post it would have been edited or the thread closed in a New York Minute.
Last edited by MackTheKnife; 5th Jul 2010 at 20:29.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one AC F/O said to me last week, "If those guys come back and delay our promotions then Twitchel bids are going to be the norm",should be fun to watch to say the least!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one AC F/O said to me last week, "If those guys come back and delay our promotions then Twitchel bids are going to be the norm",should be fun to watch to say the least!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vic777, that will be really interesting to watch, will be like a Tampa flight, "Four more wheelchairs please" I supose Geritol will replace coffee as the drink of choice!
Last edited by clunckdriver; 6th Jul 2010 at 20:53. Reason: Chuckling too much to type
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Today on the ACPA forum, a junior member blasted away with a trashy personal attack against the FlyPast60 movement and (as yet) the moderators are letting a personal attack against a respected retired AC pilot stand unaltered.
As one AC F/O said to me last week, "If those guys come back and delay our promotions then Twitchel bids are going to be the norm",should be fun to watch to say the least!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although it isn't only the ACPA forum that suffers from unfairly biased moderating (AvCanada).
The thought police will soon have only each other to talk to.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire Left, A "Twitchel" bid {spelling?} Was named after a Captain Twitchell of AC who like many of us objected to flying with smokers, thus the F/Os bid a day after the Captains bids closed so they could bid around the nicotine addicts, of course it was also a way to avoid folks you just didnt want to fly with.These days of course all one has to do is to punch the persons employee number you wish to avoid into the computer and it will take care of the problem.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 74
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Harold Twitchell, hired by Trans-Canada Airlines in 1955 at age 20. Retired from Air Canada in 1994. When he was a First Officer, he persuaded the company and the union to stagger the (then "canned" block) bid closing dates by one day, as described above, in order to allow First Officers to surreptitiously avoid flying a whole month with specific Captains, for any reason of their own choosing.
His name thus forever identifies the process, now encapsulated in the PBS bid "Avoid Employee # XXXXX," and is ensconsced in labour relations and legal history for that reason.
Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
DECISION RENDERED ON MARCH 18, 1982
T. D. 5/ 82 IN THE MATTER OF THE CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACT, S. C. 1976- 77, C. 33, as amended;
AND IN THE MATTER of a Hearing before a Human Rights Tribunal Appointed Under Section 39 of The Canadian Human Rights Act.
BETWEEN:
PAUL S. CARSON, RAMON SANZ, WILLIAM NASH, BARRY JAMES, ARIE TALL, COMPLAINANTS,
- and
AIR CANADA, RESPONDENT.
TRIBUNAL: SIDNEY N. LEDERMAN, Q. C.
[About 10 pages from the beginning]:
The United States Court of Appeals, 4th Circuit, in Smallwood v United Airlines Inc., supra, at p. 10 said:
"In short, there is no reliable evidence that United’s ’crew concept’ would be impaired by the sole factor of hiring Flight Officers, starting as Second Officers, over the age of 35. This alleged harm to the ’crew concept’ is a function of prior experience, not age at hire."
This kind of personality defect can be ascertained either by a proper assessment by the interviewer during the pilot selection process or alternatively through psychological testing of candidates.
The possibility of personality differences which could give rise to confrontations on the flight deck is in fact contemplated by Air Canada since it does consider and assess personality characteristics of the pilot applicant during the initial interview process. Furthermore, it is also considered the basis of the "Twitchell Bid" process whereby Air Canada first officers do not select their assignments until after the captains have chosen their assignments and they have been made known to the lower rank officers. By this process, personality conflicts can be avoided by a first officer steering clear of a captain with whom he may have some problems of compatibility.
I must conclude that there is no probative evidence to suggest that the removal of Air Canada’s age hiring policy could be a potential source of poor crew inter-action.
...
His name thus forever identifies the process, now encapsulated in the PBS bid "Avoid Employee # XXXXX," and is ensconsced in labour relations and legal history for that reason.
Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
DECISION RENDERED ON MARCH 18, 1982
T. D. 5/ 82 IN THE MATTER OF THE CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACT, S. C. 1976- 77, C. 33, as amended;
AND IN THE MATTER of a Hearing before a Human Rights Tribunal Appointed Under Section 39 of The Canadian Human Rights Act.
BETWEEN:
PAUL S. CARSON, RAMON SANZ, WILLIAM NASH, BARRY JAMES, ARIE TALL, COMPLAINANTS,
- and
AIR CANADA, RESPONDENT.
TRIBUNAL: SIDNEY N. LEDERMAN, Q. C.
[About 10 pages from the beginning]:
The United States Court of Appeals, 4th Circuit, in Smallwood v United Airlines Inc., supra, at p. 10 said:
"In short, there is no reliable evidence that United’s ’crew concept’ would be impaired by the sole factor of hiring Flight Officers, starting as Second Officers, over the age of 35. This alleged harm to the ’crew concept’ is a function of prior experience, not age at hire."
This kind of personality defect can be ascertained either by a proper assessment by the interviewer during the pilot selection process or alternatively through psychological testing of candidates.
The possibility of personality differences which could give rise to confrontations on the flight deck is in fact contemplated by Air Canada since it does consider and assess personality characteristics of the pilot applicant during the initial interview process. Furthermore, it is also considered the basis of the "Twitchell Bid" process whereby Air Canada first officers do not select their assignments until after the captains have chosen their assignments and they have been made known to the lower rank officers. By this process, personality conflicts can be avoided by a first officer steering clear of a captain with whom he may have some problems of compatibility.
I must conclude that there is no probative evidence to suggest that the removal of Air Canada’s age hiring policy could be a potential source of poor crew inter-action.
...
Last edited by Raymond767; 7th Jul 2010 at 18:20.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poor crew interaction? If the F/Os that live in my area an indication then it wont happen as they to a person seem to be planing to "Twitchell Bid" any of the over sixty group, thus there will be no interaction. So glad to be flying my little corporate aircraft away from all this!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Barrie
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clunkdriver wrote:
"Poor crew interaction? If the F/Os that live in my area an indication then it wont happen as they to a person seem to be planing to "Twitchell Bid" any of the over sixty group, thus there will be no interaction. So glad to be flying my little corporate aircraft away from all this!"
How do they plan to Twitchell over 200 pilots every month and why would they want to give up that many great trips.
"Poor crew interaction? If the F/Os that live in my area an indication then it wont happen as they to a person seem to be planing to "Twitchell Bid" any of the over sixty group, thus there will be no interaction. So glad to be flying my little corporate aircraft away from all this!"
How do they plan to Twitchell over 200 pilots every month and why would they want to give up that many great trips.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do they plan to Twitchell over 200 pilots every month and why would they want to give up that many great trips.
Eventually they will figure out how childish they are being and realize that this is actually a good thing. Then they will quietly stop whining and bitching about it.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire Left, Who cares? Well I do, it seems feelings run fairly high on this subject and the history of serious acidents due to friction/hostility between crew members at the pointy end is well documented, thus I hope that those who are upset/hostile to this situation {on both sides} have the common sense to indeed avoid flying together, again I am not taking sides, just stating the obvious. It would be nice to think that no pilot would ever let personel feelings enter the flight deck, but we all know this just aint so, back to my little corporate aircraft today away from all this stuff!