Thomas Cook Canada to immerge this spring!
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seuss you have articulated very clearly today's "me " society so evident by to many in the Canadian pilot group.
Reading some of the self centered drivel from some of these people makes me feel unclean from just reading their comments.
I am so happy not to be in aviation anymore, and thankful that I was in aviation when I was.
One only need read the Canadian forum to understand just how low the industry has fallen.
Yet they have the gall to demand to be called " professionals "
Reading some of the self centered drivel from some of these people makes me feel unclean from just reading their comments.
I am so happy not to be in aviation anymore, and thankful that I was in aviation when I was.
One only need read the Canadian forum to understand just how low the industry has fallen.
Yet they have the gall to demand to be called " professionals "
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Does anyone know what the Jazz pilots will be paid for flying the 57?
Is it in around the $100k range that their top RJ captains make, or will they fight for a wage more inline with the machinery?
Is it in around the $100k range that their top RJ captains make, or will they fight for a wage more inline with the machinery?
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Hey Obbie, real nice post. You got alot of class, boy! Remember, karma can rip right around and bite you in the ass one day too! Especially in our industry!
None of us are immune!
You are obviously some dweeb living in your mom's basement that prances around the terminal with sunglasses clenched between your teeth, all the while counting down the days to the next direct deposit (what are you at, 800 bucks every 2 weeks?).
You don't know squat about life or what it means to have to start over again at the bottom, in middle age, with kids and responsibilities, and nothing to show for years of dedicated service and experience, unless you are willing to pull up stakes and go abroad. Try to process that prospect through your puny brain. You can't now, but chances are you will have to, eventually. Karma indeed.
You haven't got a clue about what it is to be in those guys' shoes! Not yet anyway! Fly long enough in Canada and you will, my friend.
I wish all the SSV guys good luck.
None of us are immune!
You are obviously some dweeb living in your mom's basement that prances around the terminal with sunglasses clenched between your teeth, all the while counting down the days to the next direct deposit (what are you at, 800 bucks every 2 weeks?).
You don't know squat about life or what it means to have to start over again at the bottom, in middle age, with kids and responsibilities, and nothing to show for years of dedicated service and experience, unless you are willing to pull up stakes and go abroad. Try to process that prospect through your puny brain. You can't now, but chances are you will have to, eventually. Karma indeed.
You haven't got a clue about what it is to be in those guys' shoes! Not yet anyway! Fly long enough in Canada and you will, my friend.
I wish all the SSV guys good luck.
Last edited by faireydelta; 14th Apr 2010 at 21:33.
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Exactly my sentiments faireydelta.
What these pathetic individuals fail to take into consideration is the damage they do the other crews who fly for Jazz.
When I look at the Jazz crews walking through the terminals I will wonder if that is the person with this attitude towards their fellow pilots.
Any SSV pilot wishing to apply at Jazz is welcome to do so.
There is a place for you at the bottom of our list and a nice
right hand seat in one of our very nice Dash-8.
That is a worse attitude than some new flight instructor thinking flying a Cessna 172 is big time.
Pathetic.
What these pathetic individuals fail to take into consideration is the damage they do the other crews who fly for Jazz.
When I look at the Jazz crews walking through the terminals I will wonder if that is the person with this attitude towards their fellow pilots.
Any SSV pilot wishing to apply at Jazz is welcome to do so.
There is a place for you at the bottom of our list and a nice
right hand seat in one of our very nice Dash-8.
Pathetic.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 14th Apr 2010 at 21:50.
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"And whose work did SSV take when it was created? When Sunquest wanted their own airline? "
No ones. Here.....write this down so you don't forget.
Sunquest went shopping the idea of a Canadian winter season A320 to C3's Angus Kinnear in 1994. The problem Angus had was what to do with the aircraft the rest of the year so they could not agree on a deal. Russ Payson at Skyservice was approached and Skyservice Airlines was born. The arrangement grew from this initial six month operation into a seasonal swap of aircraft and crews to and from the UK. In 2009 Sunquest decided they could buy seats on other carriers at much lower costs for their summer programs and Skyservice lost A330 and B757 work for its Canadian pilots.
Another piece of Canadian travel company history. Skyservice operated one leased B757 for Sunwing in 2004 when the Hunter's started up again with their newly branded company. The following season, Sunwing wanted to increase the number of aircraft, however, the good people at Sunquest objected. With Signature and Conquest already in the Skyservice family, they did not want yet another tour operator in the group and basically told Russ Payson to choose Sunwing or Sunquest. Russ let Sunwing go and with it Mark Williams moved on to start up Sunwing Airlines with John Hunter and son Steve.
So now Sunquest or Thomas Cook as they are now called have moved on to Jazz. The good people at Jazz will eventually become familiar with the Boeing 757 MEL and how to secure parts for aircraft that Boeing no longer manufactures.
bd
No ones. Here.....write this down so you don't forget.
Sunquest went shopping the idea of a Canadian winter season A320 to C3's Angus Kinnear in 1994. The problem Angus had was what to do with the aircraft the rest of the year so they could not agree on a deal. Russ Payson at Skyservice was approached and Skyservice Airlines was born. The arrangement grew from this initial six month operation into a seasonal swap of aircraft and crews to and from the UK. In 2009 Sunquest decided they could buy seats on other carriers at much lower costs for their summer programs and Skyservice lost A330 and B757 work for its Canadian pilots.
Another piece of Canadian travel company history. Skyservice operated one leased B757 for Sunwing in 2004 when the Hunter's started up again with their newly branded company. The following season, Sunwing wanted to increase the number of aircraft, however, the good people at Sunquest objected. With Signature and Conquest already in the Skyservice family, they did not want yet another tour operator in the group and basically told Russ Payson to choose Sunwing or Sunquest. Russ let Sunwing go and with it Mark Williams moved on to start up Sunwing Airlines with John Hunter and son Steve.
So now Sunquest or Thomas Cook as they are now called have moved on to Jazz. The good people at Jazz will eventually become familiar with the Boeing 757 MEL and how to secure parts for aircraft that Boeing no longer manufactures.
bd
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Good luck SSV crews
Have to say I am very disappointed with the attitude of the Jazz drivers on here - you guys have forgotten SSV irrespective of the corporate ineptitude was crewed by human beings one assumes following their vocation/passion in the pointy end of metal tubes.
The pathetic remarks about toiling the skies in a Dash 8 making washers for a few years shows insensitivity, bad manners, bad judgement and complete ineptitude.
Show some humanity for god's sakes. These guys are out on the street and the business in this country has had enough knocks with idiots like leBlanc running amock. Even if he did sorry more than once (like he meant it).
Seriously - to all the SSV crews - the very best of luck. It's nice to see someone like Chuck still has the gentlemanly aviator demeanor.
Those of you out to troll and pick a fight - grow up!
The pathetic remarks about toiling the skies in a Dash 8 making washers for a few years shows insensitivity, bad manners, bad judgement and complete ineptitude.
Show some humanity for god's sakes. These guys are out on the street and the business in this country has had enough knocks with idiots like leBlanc running amock. Even if he did sorry more than once (like he meant it).
Seriously - to all the SSV crews - the very best of luck. It's nice to see someone like Chuck still has the gentlemanly aviator demeanor.
Those of you out to troll and pick a fight - grow up!
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So Sunquest previously had no lift with other airlines prior to SSV? Very interesting.
That is correct. The airline that failed on March 31th, 2010 did not exist prior to 1994. Skyservice has successfully operated FBOs in Toronto and Montreal as well as global air ambulance service for over 20 years. At some point in their history they also operated an executive seating B727 which catered to sports team such as the Toronto Blue Jays.
bd
That is correct. The airline that failed on March 31th, 2010 did not exist prior to 1994. Skyservice has successfully operated FBOs in Toronto and Montreal as well as global air ambulance service for over 20 years. At some point in their history they also operated an executive seating B727 which catered to sports team such as the Toronto Blue Jays.
bd
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SSV's history
I am well aware of the history. So how did Sunquest's inclusive tour passenger's get to their vacation destinations prior to the creation of SSV? Let's ask the question that way. Did they walk? Unless all Sunquest's flying as of 1994 was net new then it was transferred from somewhere.
Oh and Royal were also offered the gig and turned it down prior to Payson agreeing to it with (originally) Sunquest as their only customer.
You might want to write that down.
Oh and Royal were also offered the gig and turned it down prior to Payson agreeing to it with (originally) Sunquest as their only customer.
You might want to write that down.
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SSV history
Agreed the airline that failed in 2010 did not exist prior to 1994, but Sunquest did and so did their passengers. Presumably someone was previously flying them for Sunquest??
I have no connection with Jazz but would like to ask if the SSV pilots in 1994 tried to decline the work that was being transferred as they felt it unfair that SSV accepted it? No, they accepted new jobs with a company that was being set up specifically to take existing business from an existing carrier.
If Thomas Cook no longer wanted to work with SSV surely that is their decision, as it was to put flying with Skyservice from somewhere else in 1994.
It sounds like the decision was made to close down Skyservice, at least as early as February when the summer flying was given to Westjet (who didn't refuse it either) due to underlying issues with the cost structure.
One can hardly expect a business such as Jazz to turn down the offer of more work and it is somewhat unrealistic to expect the Jazz crews to ask their company to do so. I don't think it is actually their decision.
While sad for SSV it is not a cause for criticism of Jazz or its pilots.
I have no connection with Jazz but would like to ask if the SSV pilots in 1994 tried to decline the work that was being transferred as they felt it unfair that SSV accepted it? No, they accepted new jobs with a company that was being set up specifically to take existing business from an existing carrier.
If Thomas Cook no longer wanted to work with SSV surely that is their decision, as it was to put flying with Skyservice from somewhere else in 1994.
It sounds like the decision was made to close down Skyservice, at least as early as February when the summer flying was given to Westjet (who didn't refuse it either) due to underlying issues with the cost structure.
One can hardly expect a business such as Jazz to turn down the offer of more work and it is somewhat unrealistic to expect the Jazz crews to ask their company to do so. I don't think it is actually their decision.
While sad for SSV it is not a cause for criticism of Jazz or its pilots.
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1994 is rather old history, we could go back to Royal, Worldways and Wardair but the common thread is the suits moving the flying from here to there.
If a decision is made easy by another company with the approval of it's pilot group to fly said flying, at possibly a lower pay rate then I question the professional morals of any group, especially a ALPA represented one.
I defy anyone to show me how this is improving our profession in any way in Canada.
If a decision is made easy by another company with the approval of it's pilot group to fly said flying, at possibly a lower pay rate then I question the professional morals of any group, especially a ALPA represented one.
I defy anyone to show me how this is improving our profession in any way in Canada.
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Exactely. Sunquest used the first generation of charter airlines in addition to seats purchased on scheduled carriers. In 1994, AirTours of the UK (later called MyTravel and now Thomas Cook) provided an aircraft and voila......Skyservice Airlines. I don't think they took any work away from others. They just started flying their own customers.
Its interesting to see that 16 years later Sunquest is back to using Alitalia to provide lift for their summer Italy program.
Good luck to Thomas Cook and their contract with Jazz. Hopefully I won't ever have to write cheques for fellow striking ALPA (Comair) pilots as I did in 2001.
bd
Its interesting to see that 16 years later Sunquest is back to using Alitalia to provide lift for their summer Italy program.
Good luck to Thomas Cook and their contract with Jazz. Hopefully I won't ever have to write cheques for fellow striking ALPA (Comair) pilots as I did in 2001.
bd
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pay rates for the 757 at Jazz
the guys and gals who bid to swap over to fly the big iron will be paid the same as they were making on the CRJs, which is the same as they make on the Dash 8s. Status pay.
Of course that kind of sucks, puts downward pressure on wages in general, but at the same time, since FO pay will still be the same FO pay, at least jr capts won't be tempted to go right seat, giving the poor sods slaving away for years in the right seat a shot at flying something bigger.
From my alpa days, I remember the thought process regarding getting newer, bigger planes on the fleet was that it was better to get the planes on the ramp first and then focus on negotiating better pay for them, rather than kill alot of time and risk not getting them at all.
Of course we all want bigger planes and more money. Unfortunately in Canada, its always been a buyer's market for pilots. That's why I'm an expat now.
Of course that kind of sucks, puts downward pressure on wages in general, but at the same time, since FO pay will still be the same FO pay, at least jr capts won't be tempted to go right seat, giving the poor sods slaving away for years in the right seat a shot at flying something bigger.
From my alpa days, I remember the thought process regarding getting newer, bigger planes on the fleet was that it was better to get the planes on the ramp first and then focus on negotiating better pay for them, rather than kill alot of time and risk not getting them at all.
Of course we all want bigger planes and more money. Unfortunately in Canada, its always been a buyer's market for pilots. That's why I'm an expat now.
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"From my alpa days, I remember the thought process regarding getting newer, bigger planes on the fleet was that it was better to get the planes on the ramp first and then focus on negotiating better pay for them, rather than kill alot of time and risk not getting them at all."
Bigger yes. Newer no. One of the 757s which Jazz pilots will fly was originally purchased for Canada 3000 in 1988. It's still in service with Thomas Cook and will be one of the aircraft C-reg'd for a Canadian winter. Enjoy.
Photos: Boeing 757-28A Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
bd
Bigger yes. Newer no. One of the 757s which Jazz pilots will fly was originally purchased for Canada 3000 in 1988. It's still in service with Thomas Cook and will be one of the aircraft C-reg'd for a Canadian winter. Enjoy.
Photos: Boeing 757-28A Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
bd
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SSV History
No, Sunquest had seats on other charter airlines prior to 1994, flying which went to SSV after they were set up. The first aircraft leased to SSV were A320s from Monarch in fact.
Royal amongst others carried Sunquest's lift prior to SSV being set up.
I assume you are deliberately misunderstanding that point so I give up.
Royal amongst others carried Sunquest's lift prior to SSV being set up.
I assume you are deliberately misunderstanding that point so I give up.
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ssv history
So bingo! flying was transferred to SSV from other charter airlines and the pilots who joined SSV didn't object. Thanks,
I am also pretty certain the Airworld aircraft came before the AirTours but it really doesn't matter except I don't like being lectured when I'm pretty clear on the history.
I am also pretty certain the Airworld aircraft came before the AirTours but it really doesn't matter except I don't like being lectured when I'm pretty clear on the history.
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well, the dash8s are pretty vintage themselves, but the point being made was bigger and/or newer planes. I'm sure the Jazz guys won't be complaining (at first) about the age of the '57s.
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"well, the dash8s are pretty vintage themselves, but the point being made was bigger and/or newer planes. I'm sure the Jazz guys won't be complaining (at first) about the age of the '57s"
True but some of those Dash 8's have been recently parked. This 757 and other similar aged Boeings will be sent over with complimentary UK deferals and defects for the Jazz gang to deal with each winter season.
Enjoy.
bd
True but some of those Dash 8's have been recently parked. This 757 and other similar aged Boeings will be sent over with complimentary UK deferals and defects for the Jazz gang to deal with each winter season.
Enjoy.
bd