Will Sunwing last?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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no i would say a good way for swg to keep pilots employed during the off season,and take advantage of a convienient cheap lease.It works both ways.both companies have to be part of it.one airplane two sets of pilots.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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llnflder
Are we some sort of a charity institution?
Sunwing can do what ever they want with their pilots.If they can find work for their pilots in off season that's great!
Not in my company though and its not just me saying that!
We are working hard, we go the extra mile but we will safeguard what we have with teeth and nails.
And be sure about that!
Sunwing can do what ever they want with their pilots.If they can find work for their pilots in off season that's great!
Not in my company though and its not just me saying that!
We are working hard, we go the extra mile but we will safeguard what we have with teeth and nails.
And be sure about that!
Last edited by levantes; 3rd Oct 2008 at 05:19.
Join Date: May 2008
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Lavantes, you should be thanking companies like Sunwing for Saving your job. How long in this market do you think your company would last only flying 6 months a year? Do you think the aircraft are free during the winter when your not flying them? The partnership between North American carriers and European Carriers is a perfect mesh. If you want to protect your job by kicking out those that are saving you help yourself.
If in fact Sunwing took over the lease payments on your aircraft you should also be thanking them. Your company is no longer on the hook for them and they are being flown 12 months a year now.
No one is making money off the pilots by undercutting wages. Take the pay for a sunwing pilot, add the per-diem, housing, cars and you will come up with a figure very close to your pay and per-diem.
Stop being short sighted and look at the bigger picture. We both need each other to keep a competitive edge over the competition.
If in fact Sunwing took over the lease payments on your aircraft you should also be thanking them. Your company is no longer on the hook for them and they are being flown 12 months a year now.
No one is making money off the pilots by undercutting wages. Take the pay for a sunwing pilot, add the per-diem, housing, cars and you will come up with a figure very close to your pay and per-diem.
Stop being short sighted and look at the bigger picture. We both need each other to keep a competitive edge over the competition.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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You never took payments for the leasing fee!
The initial leasing fee to ILFC is $400000 paid by ECA as well as the heavy maintenance!
It is leased to Sunwing for only $276000 per month for a period of 6 months a year during the winter! The remaining 6 months ECA pays the leasing fee to ILFC and $196000 a month for crews to Sunwing! I don't know how much your getting from that money but I'm sure not all of it!
It's not in culture anyway to ask for a lot!
Some deal hah....
Crew utilization in Crete is zero!
Last year 2 a/c, 12 crews, 55 layovers per pilot. This year 1 a/c, 8 crews, 46 layovers per pilot. The other aircraft has I guess simillar number of crews for Sunwing, paid of course by ECA including accomodation which wasn't to your standards (which I agree)!
You Sunwing pilots don't underestimate me as I'm NOT that stupid to insist nor shortsighted! We have facts in our hands that prove this is a bad deal for us and the government as the owner is already informed and will take action!
There are other ways to occupy 6 aircraft and make profit!
We don't need the "Canadian Hand" to pull us from the mud!
By the way we don't just fly for 6 months! ECA has been around for 16 years now and survived two Gulf wars which affected tourism substantially down here!
But if you insist I don't mind doing what you asked for!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
The initial leasing fee to ILFC is $400000 paid by ECA as well as the heavy maintenance!
It is leased to Sunwing for only $276000 per month for a period of 6 months a year during the winter! The remaining 6 months ECA pays the leasing fee to ILFC and $196000 a month for crews to Sunwing! I don't know how much your getting from that money but I'm sure not all of it!
It's not in culture anyway to ask for a lot!
Some deal hah....
Crew utilization in Crete is zero!
Last year 2 a/c, 12 crews, 55 layovers per pilot. This year 1 a/c, 8 crews, 46 layovers per pilot. The other aircraft has I guess simillar number of crews for Sunwing, paid of course by ECA including accomodation which wasn't to your standards (which I agree)!
You Sunwing pilots don't underestimate me as I'm NOT that stupid to insist nor shortsighted! We have facts in our hands that prove this is a bad deal for us and the government as the owner is already informed and will take action!
There are other ways to occupy 6 aircraft and make profit!
We don't need the "Canadian Hand" to pull us from the mud!
By the way we don't just fly for 6 months! ECA has been around for 16 years now and survived two Gulf wars which affected tourism substantially down here!
But if you insist I don't mind doing what you asked for!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
Last edited by levantes; 6th Oct 2008 at 12:58.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The Markets
I hope the markets recover soon. They are not putting people in a mood to spend money on vacations. If we can just have a short recession everything will be just fine. If it is long things may get a little bit more challenging. I sure hope that all turns out well. Nobody wants to see another airline go bust.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Just found this on ACPA's web site.
The future has already landed at Skyservice Airlines Inc., which has cancelled snacks at internal meetings, restricted BlackBerry use, lowered office thermostats and scrapped company-paid parties in favour of potlucks.
In an internal memo, Canada's second-largest charter airline has told employees that after recently issuing layoff notices, it must also institute a hiring freeze and reduce some salaries, but insists those traditional cost-cutting measures don't go far enough.
Nothing is sacred. Restrictions have been placed on printing, photocopying and long-distance calls. The coffee machine is no longer free. Even the company-sponsored golf tournament is toast.
Skyservice's plight foreshadows a cost-cutting future at other companies starting to tighten their belts amid a deteriorating economy and deepening global financial crisis.
I hope this is not a sign of things to come.
In an internal memo, Canada's second-largest charter airline has told employees that after recently issuing layoff notices, it must also institute a hiring freeze and reduce some salaries, but insists those traditional cost-cutting measures don't go far enough.
Nothing is sacred. Restrictions have been placed on printing, photocopying and long-distance calls. The coffee machine is no longer free. Even the company-sponsored golf tournament is toast.
Skyservice's plight foreshadows a cost-cutting future at other companies starting to tighten their belts amid a deteriorating economy and deepening global financial crisis.
I hope this is not a sign of things to come.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada
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Cargojet Income Fund, Canada's main domestic cargo carrier, says softening demand for its services have forced it to embark on a cost-cutting program that includes lower salaries for executives and frozen wages for employees. High fuel prices and reduced shipments mean that the company must become leaner, Cargojet president Ajay Virmani and other executives said in a memo to staff. Cargojet, which slashed its monthly distributions in July to 6.75 cents a unit from 9.64 cents, has temporarily banned business travel and halted discretionary spending on entertainment for customers and employees. The trust will also be limiting expenses for cellphones and mobile devices. CJT.UN (TSX) rose 10 cents to $4.45.
globeandmail.com: Cargojet cuts costs as demand slows
globeandmail.com: Cargojet cuts costs as demand slows
FWIW, I think cabin cutie is just stirring the pot, but don't make the mistake of assuming that continuous hiring is a sign of viability. Jetsgo was also still hiring when the plug got pulled.
Who was comparing them? There's more differences than similarities in the business models. But just because you're hiring doesn't mean you're solvent. Zoom was hiring for this winter too.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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lots of the same characters from jetsgo are @ sunwing and they have some similar marketing tactics. I'm not convinced that everybody will survive unscathed this winter in Canada.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The comparison with Jetsgo is misplaced...LeBlanc hiring pilots involved $30,000.00...He was well aware of the companies finances, and didn't secure the funds....
That was revenue. He's a piece of work. Sunwing is a different company altogether.....Laid off with an 737 type rating is different than $30,000 down on a F-100....
The zoom hiring is a valid point.
That was revenue. He's a piece of work. Sunwing is a different company altogether.....Laid off with an 737 type rating is different than $30,000 down on a F-100....
The zoom hiring is a valid point.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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To keep Sunwing on there toe's, i hear that Transat will be coming after them next year.
With Sunwing untilizing small airports around the country this winter, I hear that Transat will be doing the same next winter. (good competition?)
As the A310's will not be able to be accommodated at several airports, i hear transat will be booking more seats next winter using agreements with Westjet and SkyService, using their 737's A320's.
As for Sunwing, Keep flying, hope they stick around for a long time to come.
With Sunwing untilizing small airports around the country this winter, I hear that Transat will be doing the same next winter. (good competition?)
As the A310's will not be able to be accommodated at several airports, i hear transat will be booking more seats next winter using agreements with Westjet and SkyService, using their 737's A320's.
As for Sunwing, Keep flying, hope they stick around for a long time to come.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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You know I just posted a reply and then went back and read a couple of the previous posts. I still canīt believe that people in this industry absoloutley relish the fact that another person in the same industry may lose his job. Are we as pilots so paranoid and insecure??
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Mr. Head, I hope I didn't come across that way. You are right though, as airline employees we are often too quick to downplay our competitors instead of looking at ourselves working towards the same goal - a viable airline industry.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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ng78
I agree with you on all points, but also want to say there is no comparison between Leblanc and the Hunter family. Leblanc is a shortsighted scoundrel that intentionally stole money from customers and employees alike. He sold thousands of tickets on routes yet to be initiated in the weeks preceeding the bankruptcy knowing full well where the company was headed.
The Hunters founded Sunwing Vacations 25 years ago for what it is worth and seem to be organized with plans and back up plans going forward. I am only speculating of course. That said, the looming or current recession (depending on whom you might ask), is turning the coming charter season into a whole new ballgame. Something has to give, as tens of thousands of potential or confirmed holiday travelers are downgrading or cancelling their winter getaways. Transat posted a loss recently and expressed their concern for the tougher economic times ahead. I have no idea how any of the balance sheets of the other vacation airlines in Canada looks, but the spiraling dollar and the general state of the economy concerns me for sure. I hope we all come out at the other end of the tunnel in one piece, only time will tell. Good luck to all!!
The Hunters founded Sunwing Vacations 25 years ago for what it is worth and seem to be organized with plans and back up plans going forward. I am only speculating of course. That said, the looming or current recession (depending on whom you might ask), is turning the coming charter season into a whole new ballgame. Something has to give, as tens of thousands of potential or confirmed holiday travelers are downgrading or cancelling their winter getaways. Transat posted a loss recently and expressed their concern for the tougher economic times ahead. I have no idea how any of the balance sheets of the other vacation airlines in Canada looks, but the spiraling dollar and the general state of the economy concerns me for sure. I hope we all come out at the other end of the tunnel in one piece, only time will tell. Good luck to all!!