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Canada going JAR

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Canada going JAR

Old 27th Nov 2007, 08:06
  #1 (permalink)  
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Canada going JAR

What's this I hear that Canada is going JAR is the new year??

Any details/specifics would be helpful.
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 11:48
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It would be a very good thing for pilots if Canada did this. First it would be a giant leap towards a universal license that would be accepted everywhere. Second the JAR ops are much more relevant to modern ops than canada's outdated exams are. having operated under both systems it would be a benefit for canada to adopt JAR standards.
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Old 28th Nov 2007, 15:38
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I found thin on TC website, it doesn't say anything about JAR....
No. H 225/07
For release - November 27, 2007
OTTAWA — The first round of negotiations for an Open Skies-type air transport agreement between Canada and the European Union was announced today by the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, and the Honourable David Emerson, Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver–Whistler Olympics.
"The European Union is Canada's second largest air transport market. That is why we hope to conclude an agreement in a timely fashion, as indicated by the Prime Minister at June's Canada–EU Summit," said Minister Cannon. "We will soon be welcoming international representatives, several from EU countries, to celebrate Quebec City's 400th anniversary and to host the Francophonie Summit in Quebec in 2008. For these representatives and all travellers, this agreement could mean more choices in terms of destinations, flights and routes, and the potential for lower fares."
Canada currently has bilateral agreements with 19 of the 27 European Union member states. They are Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.
"Canada enjoys a dynamic trade relationship and close cultural ties with the countries of the European Union," said Minister Emerson. "A new liberalized air services agreement is a key building block for the kind of stronger and deeper trade and investment links we are trying to build with the EU into the future."
Under a Canada–European Union agreement, Canada's air transport relations with all 27 member states would be governed by a single regime. Signing a comprehensive air services agreement would provide a framework to strengthen the bilateral aviation relationship by opening new markets, especially in Eastern Europe.
These negotiations are in line with the Blue Sky policy introduced one year ago today. The Blue Sky policy was developed to help Canada's air industry continue to contribute to our country's growth and prosperity. It reflects the evolving nature of the global aviation market.
Since its launch on November 27, 2006, Canada has successfully concluded Open Skies-type agreements with Ireland, Iceland and New Zealand. In addition to the Open Skies agreements, Canada also concluded new or expanded air services agreements with Croatia, Serbia, Japan, Kuwait, Jordan and Singapore.
The Canada–European Union air market is large and mature. In 2006, with more than 6.7 million one-way passenger trips, the European Union was Canada's second largest bilateral air market after the United States.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 16:18
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JoeCo - where did you hear this rumour?

I've seen occasional mumblings on here over the last year about that but nothing from any firm sources.

That would be a big thorn in the side for the European training industry.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 19:25
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I tend to fail to see the benefit. Over the last few years, Canada has dropped it's old colonial-style based air regulations in favor of increased harmonization with the US FAR's. The US FAR's are not the greatest, however, given the close ties to the US geographically, economically, politically, etc., it only makes sense to link to the closest powerhouse . . . in the same way that many countries in the Eastern Hemisphere are linking themselves to JAR OPS. Pragmatism more than anything.
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 16:38
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Well you know how it goes. A friend of a friend who knows a friend was speaking with a friend who knows the first friend that was told by a friend and tolf my friend. ...Just kidding, ..but it was kind of like that.

I had never heard any rumblings of Canada ever thinking about going JAR, and as this is a rumour network, I thought it would be best to see if anyone else knew or heard sbout this.

It appears, at the moment, that that is exactly what it is, a rumour.

However, if anyone does find out or hears of this concept moving forward I would be very interested to hear more.


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Old 4th Dec 2007, 20:59
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going Jar... LOL
Yeah and USA going Jar too. pff
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Old 7th Dec 2007, 23:56
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I know where this is going....

Canada is NOT going JAR. Even if the CARS reflected the JAR's, you think the Euro countrys are just gonna sign over your license????? You will alwas have to write the exams anyway...just like you do for an FAA, .. and you will always need a Euro passport to work there anyway!
So forget it!!!!!!! DUH!
The only way to work there is get a Euro passport, and do the exams and flight test!!!
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Old 9th Dec 2007, 16:56
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...in a nut shell, Canadian ATPL pilots will be able to obtain a JAR ATPL by completing the required medical, $$$ complete the Law exam, $$$ and then some sort of flight test $$$. This was supposed to have been available early in 2008, but I hear now that it has been delayed until mid '08 at the earliest.
Start saving as the initial medical alone is apparently over $1000.00
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Old 10th Dec 2007, 01:22
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555orange, converting your TC license to an FAA license is now extremely simple. You just file the necessary paperwork, have the required experience/time/medical requirements and complete a short Air Law exam. PPL, CPL or ATPL, same process.
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Old 10th Dec 2007, 06:53
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FYI the initial medical is 310 Pounds. Getting closer to a thousand, but not there yet. This is off the CAA site.


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Old 10th Dec 2007, 08:19
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Muddy, close enough after the conversion... including a post medical pint or two...
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Old 10th Dec 2007, 17:40
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Different Eye Standards

Also be aware that JAA has 'slightly' different rules for eyesight.

I am by birth one of those who needs glasses with a high rating (-7.00), but are still fully correctable with glasses. This has allowed me to fly commercially in Canada. Under JAA not only does it have to be correctable, but they have an upper limit of the eye. I think -6.00.

Just for everyone's info.

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Old 15th Dec 2007, 17:56
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Yes..thats true...but your not going to work there unless you hold a US or a EURO passport. So unless you have those, the point is moot. Besides...the US license was never that difficult to get...the only dif was the 2 hour ride you used to have to do. At the same time, the Euro license...you just had to write the exams. Now you just have to write a few less exams. Basically..its all the same.
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Old 15th Dec 2007, 21:48
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How can they go JAR if for helicopters only 100hrs are req for commercial licence?
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Old 5th Jan 2008, 12:21
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Also be aware that JAA has 'slightly' different rules for eyesight.

I am by birth one of those who needs glasses with a high rating (-7.00), but are still fully correctable with glasses. This has allowed me to fly commercially in Canada. Under JAA not only does it have to be correctable, but they have an upper limit of the eye. I think -6.00.

Just for everyone's info.
This is only on the initial test. For renewal there is no limit. I have read in a document from the UK CAA that they are trying to remove the refraction limit. I have -7.00 aswell so I can only agree with them, as I still have to get a good reason for having the limits. There is only a problem when wearing glasses, but there is no problem with contact lenses.

If you already have a Canadian Class 1 medical and they change to JAR, then you will be able to convert your class 1 as a renewal, as far as what I have heard.
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Old 6th Jan 2008, 20:53
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If this were to happen, it would be a HUGE difference. Replacing 14 exams and all the fees etc. with one air law exam in 2008 would be huge. At the moment, the only way you can get by without the 14 exams is to have 1500 Hours PIC on big stuff. It would have an effect on the conversion schools too. Why would someone spend all the time and money to get what would be much easier next year? I don't think it's going to happen.
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Old 30th Jan 2008, 06:16
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555, yes you have a point. You would need the passport and the right to work in the given country. However some of us have the passport or the right to work, so now its a case of getting the license. Furthermore, for example, you dont need to be in States to fly an N registered aircraft, but you DO need a FAA ticket. Lots of N reg planes floating all over the world that you do not need an American passport to fly. Same goes for Euro reg planes outisde of Europe. So, perhaps in your case it is a moot point, but for some its very relevant.

I'll get my JAR whatever the method may be, but obviously if there are rumblings of this process beign easier, I'm all ears. Surely you can appreciate my curiosity??
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Old 30th Jan 2008, 12:44
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For all the dreamers of a JAA licence

For All the dreamers of a JAA licence: you won't escape the normal conversion route

There's a mutual recognition between FAA and transport Canada , if you have a FAA ATP you can get a Transport Canada ATP by just sitting the airlaw exam . Does that mean that all the holders of the FAA tickets will get a JAA licence , which will never be accepted. Can you imagine the invasion of all the FAA pilots in Europe and the closure of all the EU TRTO ? Economically this is absolutely impossible. Seems to be too easy , get an FAA licence convert it to canadian licence and get the JAR licence

The only possible conversion is take the 14 exams + CPL+ IR skill test for an ICAO CPL/IR holder or 14 exams + skill test on a JAR 25 a/c for an ICAO ATPL holder.

Or if you hold an ICAO ATPL with more than 3000 hours on aircraft of more than 30 T including more than 1500 PIC on a/c more than 30 T just take the airlaw exam + Human performance and a skill test and you get a UK licence (for UK registered a/c only ! which is not a JAR licence.

Dream on!

Last edited by Citation2; 30th Jan 2008 at 13:33.
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Old 31st Jan 2008, 15:50
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Hey JoeCoe. Curiosity is great....Im just bringing fact to this topic so everyones curiosity with regard to this is satisfied. I know alot about this because Ive been all over this and back again.

Any extra license is valuable to have for sure. No denying that. But generally, if an AC is registered in a certian country, you have to have a license from that Country to fly it. For eg, Vietnam Airlines have AC registered in the Seychelles. But to work there you first have to sit and pass the Seychelles Air Law exams. In Europe, its no dif. You want to fly Euro airplanes, you gotta hold the Euro license, and that means sitting all the exams. If you have the right to live in Europe like I do, then its possible. If you don't have the right to live there, its not.

Secondly, about your N reg AC...you cant fly N Registered AC in other countries unless by some techincal agreement. Same goes for Euro. For eg: An N reg AC cant fly to europe and compete for business with the Europeans. Thats called "Cabotage". You couldn't fly down to Seattle, pick up some passengers, and drop them off in San Fran. That again is Cabotage. There are exceptions, like in private company jets picking up company personnel, and things like that.
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