Which Canadian Carrier Would You Wanna Fly For?

[nolimitholdem]

Dear Cyow,

It seems the best you can come up with is to dimiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as being arrogant. ("Accept the obvious, put away your ego, etc"...guess it takes one to know one eh?!)

Do you even know what a stereotype is? It's a perception, not necessarily reality, but usually started with some basis in truth. You ask what I know of Air Canada pilots. Well let's see. There are the several former AC pilots I work alongside here outside of the country, who chose to leave Air Canada. One who happens to be a close friend. Then there are even more who currently work there. All of them really good guys, from what I have been able to tell.

But that doesn't change the perception that exists that the typical AC pilot is a tad full of himself. Hell even some of the guys I know that work there, acknowledge that much of Canadian aviation regards them as prima donnas. From what I've seen it's more of a residual PR problem than reality (please see previous paragraph)...so I guess my point was, guys like you and BL only serve to set things back a ways with your pouncing on anyone who dares to suggest that maybe Canadian aviation isn't the paradise you claim for everyone. But hey...fill yer boots!

Any decent discussion of aviation in Canada will include options outside of Canada, given that our industry is puny compared to any other G8 nation. Try not to get too twisted about it - it's really not that big a deal.

PS: Anaheim in 6!

[Cyow]

Any decent discussion of aviation in Canada will include options outside of Canada, given that our industry is puny compared to any other G8 nation. Try not to get too twisted about it - it's really not that big a deal.
PS: Anaheim in 6!

Well, what can I say? With a statement like that you continue to baffle me. Maybe you should have a look at how Canada is described in its section of this forum.

The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

Anyway, to my knowledge, over the past ten years AC has lost about five pilots that I know of who went to the desert. One of them came back, accepting bottom of the list, one other is apparantly in touch with management about a similar deal and I guess the other three are happy they left. Two pilots from management went over to take top management jobs as well. Not exactly what I would call a mass exodus. As for Canadian pilots in general being overseas, yes I acknowledge that there are many and are doing very well. Oh BTW, the "typical AC pilot being a tad full of himself"? Buddy, are you are so blindly arrogant you can't even read it in your own writing? Now, I've waisted enough time. Better get back to the pool and enjoy some Molson CANADIAN, eh.
Go Sens Go.

[nolimitholdem]

lol

Hilarious...the forum emailed your post before you edited it...what...not insulting enough the first draft? Yeah, you're right....if PPrune says Canada has "a LOT of aviation" then it must be so. We're just like the US or Europe. What with our um, 2 majors.

Nice to hear you admit that some pilots may have actually found happiness after AC. Must've been painful for you. Sorry, where did I claim a mass exodus of AC pilots? Please quit twisting my words. Guys come and go for various reasons, which was my whole point. If you had grasped that earlier on we wouldn't be having this bun fight.

The whole thread was a question: "Which Canadian Carrier Would You Wanna Fly For?" The answer for many, it would seem...is none. Nothing to get sensitive above. God, AC-baiting is just too easy these days.

Enjoy your beer! Hopefully the Sens can quit whining about the refs long enough to play hockey and win another game!

[Saltaire]

AC has lost far more and 5 pilots over the last decade....another useless stat pulled from the depths of nowhere. I'm one of them and so far so good. Certainly miss home but that's what vacations are for. Do I miss rain, sleet and snow in April or October? Not quite. Dropped about 5 on my handicap so far

Blue team, red team, union BS, Ya ! I sure miss that crap. AC is always at the back of the curve. Just getting a 777 now? Yippee. How about those atrocious 767's with about as much in-flight entertainment as a najavo. Getting those refurbished are we? About 8 years too late. Oh, and love the new baby blue robin egg looking livery. Very cool


Ha, look, every situation is different, but we all can call it a cool career and haggle over the details. Don't really care....I've made my bed and it's quite soft.

What's the best avaition job in Canada? Me on my 185 on floats after winning 10 million in the 649.

I'm out

[Cyow]

AC has lost far more and 5 pilots over the last decade....another useless stat pulled from the depths of nowhere

Really? I can tell you that when one guy leaves, it gets very well advertized. In the past decade or so a handfull of guys have left, most during the CCAA process. If this was such a bad place to work for and given all those great jobs overseas, AC should have lost far more. Most guys I know that are overseas are there because AC never called. But Canada has other airlines that are very good to work for. I can tell that the corporate flying in Canada is just as good as the airlines. We have all made our choices and hopefully we are happy with those choices. I have stated that there are good jobs to be had overseas but no one is acklowdging that life at home , wether with AC or not, can also be good. That would lead me to think maybe BL was right in hurting some egoes. Good on ya Bruce. Don't take no crap.

[BRAIN66]

Lets call a spade a spade A job with Air Canada especially as a first officer is a "Mcjob"of the airline industry.40K is minimum wage 1st year apprentices make that with a bit of overtime in most trades.How long and how much does it cost to get a right seat job with AC?Ryan air first officers earn if not mistaken $110k in their first year.A gentlemans salary.But if You all get off earning 60-70 percent less so you can drink beer and watch hockey well all I can say is "Whatever sails your boat friend"

[Cyow]

olbie.
I stated that most guys I KNOW never got a call. Not as a whole.

Brain.
You are quite right, starting salaries suck. A livable salary is not too long to wait though. I was offered a job years back in the London area and even though it sounded great, the cost of living over there made me decide to stay put. Yes, I too had the oppurtunity of a lifetime and turned it down.

[uncle buzz]

It seems to me that guys go overseas for more $$. Sure some guys get turned down and may blow an interview, but ask why did they leave? We all have different reasons.
As for Ryan Air we should remember you have to pay for your own type rating but first you have to be able to live and work Europe. So take off about 35 000 Euros converted to Canadian dollars and lets see what the salary really is. I would call your first couple of years a reverse training bond.
Why argue with one another if the pilots at A/C get a raise it also good for WJ guys when they go to the table.The same goes with other smaller companies. Problem is were to busy selling ourselves out and all managment in every company see's that but us.
Why not have a national association. The teachers have one of the most powerful unions out there. I'm not saying to unionize all the companies, but have a standard for pay from starting out to flying the big iron

[atrflyguy]

Get back on topic

Just wondering but are AC and WJ the only two airlines in Canada? If I don’t want to work for either one of those is becoming and expat the only other option? Come on people get on with your lives and drop it all already. If your happy good for you, if your not do what it takes to get that way and if your not willing to then at least shut up about it.

P.S I recall hearing a few other names around the skies to. For example Air North, Canadian North, First Air, Ken Bork, Air Tindi, etc. I personally work for First Air. We have been in business for more than 60 years. No were not the best company, we only have two southern bases and our planes might be a bit old by standards but I will make between 70 and 80K this year as my first full year F/O on the 73 and over the course of a full year I might (might)spend 10 to 15 nights away form home. That makes me HAPPY. I also know people at all of the others I mentioned above and they are happy and for a large part have very similar job security etc as I mentioned above.

As for my answer to the original posted question, I would at this point choose AC due mostly to the variety of eventually being able to choose from several good cities in which to be based and the type of flying i.e.: Short to medium haul or long haul to partake in. Once I decide which one makes me happy. There’s that thing again.

[Cyow]

For example Air North, Canadian North, First Air, Ken Bork, Air Tindi, etc. I personally work for First Air. We have been in business for more than 60 years.

...Harmony, Air Transat, Skyservice, Bearskin, Zoom, Jazz....Sorry, I don't have the full list. There are more.

[atrflyguy]

Yet more

Thanks Cyow you are correct and now that I have more time I too will add a few more. Buffalo Airways, Air Inuit, Calm Air, Cargo Jet, Porter, hell just go to this page and you can find many more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airlines


Cheers all

[20driver]

To diverge for a second, I heard a Porter callsign near Ottawa on Sunday. How are they doing with the start up?

[Cyow]

oops. Harmony is no more. I was thinking of sunwing...


20driver.
Little is known about Porter. I'm assuming so far so good but they haven't been around very long. Looks like a good place.

[Johnny767]

Here's the kicker boys, is Air Canada and West Jet the best jobs in the business.

Probably not, but, they are both descent!

Where would you rather "LIVE, PLAY (and most importantly) RAISE YOUR CHILDREN!"

...that is what truly matters.

[DHC6to8]

Well here is my take on it...

edited at the request of another

[4-Daned]

Well said!

[Cyow]

I would agree that "respect", whatever that is in aviation, is not a big deal in Canada. Although, my neighbours seem pretty envious. The whole argument on salaries is a little distorted though. While it's true that airline salaries in Canada are poor (at best) during the first two years, it's not long after that one makes a very live-able income in this country. Prt of the problem is also that at AC, you typically get hired onto a regional type airplane or as a relief pilot. These are considered low wage jobs to begin with. I've heard the tax argument come up many times but overall when you factor in the cost of living in Canada versus other places, life as a pilot is still quite comfortable here. If you're willing to put up with those first couple of years. Overseas, you are likely to get hired right onto a big machine hence the bigger bucks.

[Craic Ore]

Just to clear it up, i'd say about 20 guys came to EK from AC and yes it was mostly during the restructuring. Most are still happy and glad they made the choice, we all wonder over here at times, not a perfect place but then again, neither is canada. Most of us love our home and will return and put our money back into the economy there. I guess for me it was all about security (came well before the '02 problems at AC), opportunity and money. Hopefully retiring about 10 years earlier than i would've in canada and with a better lifestyle, but that will be decided in due time.

To me, i hope your all happy where you are and although i thought and still think AC is not the-end-all-be-all, neither is any othe carrier in the world and i'll take my current life, thanks.

Good luck with whatever the future brings.

[Cyow]

Just to clear it up, i'd say about 20 guys came to EK from AC and yes it was mostly during the restructuring.

A little on the high side dude. Most took LOA's, some whent back to the military and as my recent memory can't be all that bad, the EK goers numbered about half a dozen. I know many more had applied, some rejected, some declined to go at the last minute. The number I would consider to be more relevant is the numbers being hired in Canada right now. Like you say, good luck to everyone in reaching their goal.

[Johnny767]

DHC6to8:

Good on ya...we do need more like you.

Tell the Airlines to "get stuffed," maybe they'll get the message. Companies that require "training contracts"..... it goes on and on.

1. Flight Attendants that THINK they should be paid the same as Pilots

2. Flight Attendants that THINK they should be in "Business Class" and the F/O in "Economy."

It is the Socialist Canadian way, we take the Unskilled workers (ramp rats and F/A's) and overpay them.

Which is subsidized by the Skilled (Pilots and AME's.)

I wouldn't trade you, but, you are doing us a favor.

Thanks